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How does the NBA recover from this? How does it effect the Knicks offseason?
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smackeddog
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4/24/2020  1:23 PM
A lot of european governments seem to be saying that social distancing is here to say, that this virus is with us long term, things can't go back to normal until there's a vaccine or effective easy treatment, and that even 18 months is a very optimistic time frame for a vaccine (fastest ever vaccine was measles and that took 4 years).

If the past is any indicator, the world won’t have a coronavirus vaccine for more than a year, probably longer. The mumps vaccine—considered the fastest ever approved—took four years to go from collecting viral samples to licensing a drug in 1967. Clinical trials come with three phases, and the first stages of the current COVID-19 trials aren’t due for completion until this autumn, spring 2021, or much later. And there are good reasons to allow time for safety checks. Some preliminary vaccines for the related coronavirus SARS, for instance, actually enhanced the disease in model experiments.

“A year to 18 months would be absolutely unprecedented,” says Peter Hotez, dean at Baylor University’s National School of Tropical Medicine. “Maybe with the new technology, maybe with throwing enough money on it, that'll happen. But we have to be really careful about those time estimates.”

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2020/04/why-coronavirus-vaccine-could-take-way-longer-year

Obviously, bball is the least of our problems, but if all the above is true, I just don't get how the NBA is going to function for the next few seasons. What is the way forward for it? Do they just play with no crowds at all- what does that mean for team's revenue? Will teams go bust? Can it survive just on TV revenue for a couple of years?

Would it drastically reduce crowd sizes, so there can be some fans but they have to be 2m apart (so a huge reduction to crowd capacity and again revenue)? How many people will actually want to risk going to games? What happens when a 3rd or 4th wave of the virus hits in certain states- surely they couldn't have teams and fans travelling interstate in that scenario, in which case would the season have to be abandoned?

Likewise there's likely going to be a huge cut to league income and a big cut the salary cap- does that mean the Knicks (and every other team) should essentially just do nothing this offseason- don't take on any extra salary (what's the point if the season is likely to get canned/be diminished?). But then how can the NCAA function? And if that can't go, what happens to the 2021 draft? What happens to all those NCAA players who can't play and develop?

Personally, I think they should scrap the 2020-21 NBA season and instead just run a series of relatively brief tournaments. These would be all self contained, short and could be adjusted depended on virus outbreak levels. Could have different trophies or prizes- one could be for draft order/a high pick, another could be for money, another for a title. Trying to go ahead with a normal season would be a disaster, because you couldn't be sure it wouldn't have to be cancelled. At least with a series of tournaments, it gives you the flexibility to adjust to the situation- you can move locations, keep them to certain areas, and stop and start them when needed, have them in front of limited crowds or scrap crowds all together (if needed).

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arkrud
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4/24/2020  11:56 PM
They should do Pay-Per-View streaming only. So no TV and all except of it.
So everyone who want to watch can pay $5-10 to watch the game.
You need like 500K people to watch the stream.
The revenue from his should replace the local crowd for sure.
Fan should be able to interact with each other and players over social media and virtual rooms.
During the streaming they can sell stuff and run other virtual stuff.
Internet Age Pro Sports!!!
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
wargames
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4/25/2020  1:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/25/2020  1:25 AM
Idk..... I legit don't think Ball starts again until December or we may not see games until 2021....... Knicks are a young team if the kids stay healthy on their own and train great.

It sucks but its really guys like Lebron who are at the end of their prime that this really effects. 2021 and 22 might see the draft be combined into two years of super drafts.

Clippers went all in this year if the season ends that is a major L.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
smackeddog
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4/25/2020  3:39 AM
wargames wrote:Idk..... I legit don't think Ball starts again until December or we may not see games until 2021....... Knicks are a young team if the kids stay healthy on their own and train great.

It sucks but its really guys like Lebron who are at the end of their prime that this really effects. 2021 and 22 might see the draft be combined into two years of super drafts.

Clippers went all in this year if the season ends that is a major L.

It worries me that a lot of players (not just Knicks) don't have courts or training facilities of their own. Also there's usually at least one or two players who plumpen up so much in extended lockouts that it ruins their careers (see Shawn Kemp and Felton)

wargames
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4/25/2020  12:46 PM
smackeddog wrote:
wargames wrote:Idk..... I legit don't think Ball starts again until December or we may not see games until 2021....... Knicks are a young team if the kids stay healthy on their own and train great.

It sucks but its really guys like Lebron who are at the end of their prime that this really effects. 2021 and 22 might see the draft be combined into two years of super drafts.

Clippers went all in this year if the season ends that is a major L.

It worries me that a lot of players (not just Knicks) don't have courts or training facilities of their own. Also there's usually at least one or two players who plumpen up so much in extended lockouts that it ruins their careers (see Shawn Kemp and Felton)

Yeah that is definitely a concern. We just got to hope the kids are taking steps. It sounds like they created a virtual workout plan.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
martin
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4/25/2020  2:56 PM
So let's play out the scenario by which the NBA will open up and under what conditions that can and will happen and what it will take to sustain.

COVID-19 not just disappearing this summer/fall/winter, no vaccination til a year from now AT EARLIEST (best guess so far). So what conditions need to take place for NBA games to happen?

With fans? Are fans going to risk it equally across the country, cause that will probably be necessary? Will stadiums need to provide testing on entrance? Test to all players, personal, stadium staff?

If no fans, can TV money be good enough? For years NBA has not relented to shortening the number of games a season, reason has got to be that owners know how much each game gets them in revenue (maybe that's tied to local TV contracts but I dont know).

Do the players need to be isolated from families and pretty much EVERYONE (outside of NBA team staff who will also be isolated)? Will they do this? Literally, we are going to have a 2+ month season, you can't see anyone during that time?

What happens if, just like Golbert who shut the league down, one player catches the virus somehow? Shut down again? What if that player gets so bad he dies within the season? Keep playing or shut it down? Is that a marketing nightmare the NBA is willing to take on (let's say a prominent player passes)

What liability will the NBA take on starting games up and making players interact with one another? We all notice that during the season lots of NBA players get normal flu quite often, maybe it's their kids but most likely the airplane rides, close interaction all day long, and literally sweating on each other. Higher than norm risk even with their physical statures.

So, what conditions will and can this go forward?

I just don't see one for this year.

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CrushAlot
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4/25/2020  3:27 PM
I think next year will definitely be an abbreviated season if there is one. I think the Knicks would be smart to stay the course with Perry and Miller with things so up in the air. I also think looking at next year as another developmental year would be smart. The 21 draft is supposed to be really strong and the Knicks will have cap space. This seems like a trust the process time, not a time to chase stars by moving assets. Not sure what will end up happening but the nba might be smart to lock the regular season standings, set the draft order and have the draft on 6/25. The nfl draft has been an oasis in this desert of no sports. The nba draft would be the same in my opinion. The nba became a 12 month league with the draft, free agency, summer league etc. Having something during this is better than nothing.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
martin
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4/25/2020  3:32 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I think next year will definitely be an abbreviated season if there is one. I think the Knicks would be smart to stay the course with Perry and Miller with things so up in the air. I also think looking at next year as another developmental year would be smart. The 21 draft is supposed to be really strong and the Knicks will have cap space. This seems like a trust the process time, not a time to chase stars by moving assets. Not sure what will end up happening but the nba might be smart to lock the regular season standings, set the draft order and have the draft on 6/25. The nfl draft has been an oasis in this desert of no sports. The nba draft would be the same in my opinion. The nba became a 12 month league with the draft, free agency, summer league etc. Having something during this is better than nothing.

+1000

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Allanfan20
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4/25/2020  4:21 PM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think next year will definitely be an abbreviated season if there is one. I think the Knicks would be smart to stay the course with Perry and Miller with things so up in the air. I also think looking at next year as another developmental year would be smart. The 21 draft is supposed to be really strong and the Knicks will have cap space. This seems like a trust the process time, not a time to chase stars by moving assets. Not sure what will end up happening but the nba might be smart to lock the regular season standings, set the draft order and have the draft on 6/25. The nfl draft has been an oasis in this desert of no sports. The nba draft would be the same in my opinion. The nba became a 12 month league with the draft, free agency, summer league etc. Having something during this is better than nothing.

+1000

I think we should make RJ the number 1 scorer next season and see where that takes us. Get rid of Randle, forget about signing Morris and see how good RJ is at this point. It will expose him but we’ll know a lot more at least.

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Nalod
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4/26/2020  12:50 PM
If the league was ever serious about not competing with NFL anymore then Christmas start to season next year is a good window. They can own the summer season and finish the season in August.
Olympics and other Fiba tournaments? Basically Olympics are september. You can get a pro squad out there but I doubt those in the Playoffs wouild want to continue.
Until a vaccine is developed arenas I don't see how you can have a season unless players are sequestered and tested daily.
This is a medical question and the answer lies within that community.
wargames
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4/26/2020  1:15 PM
Nalod wrote:If the league was ever serious about not competing with NFL anymore then Christmas start to season next year is a good window. They can own the summer season and finish the season in August.
Olympics and other Fiba tournaments? Basically Olympics are september. You can get a pro squad out there but I doubt those in the Playoffs wouild want to continue.
Until a vaccine is developed arenas I don't see how you can have a season unless players are sequestered and tested daily.
This is a medical question and the answer lies within that community.

I agree with you. I think the December start for the season going forward is almost guaranteed. Regardless if the season is pushed back or cancelled. They’ll never have an opportunity to correct their season to match the market like this. Also by avoiding the NFL they’ll dominate the market over the summer and will likely do a lot better basically avoiding most sports except midseason baseball.

Honestly I think there hasn’t been as much a push for players to go to the olympics like there use to be. It’s lost the allure, even looking at who was lined up to go in 2020 it was a depleted cast of stars. Add to that more and more players aren’t even American and I could see a team of “younger” up and comers probably not destined for long play off runs mixed with a few star college kids being the focus. If the US loses their will be a push to return but I don’t think that will happen because even with less stars they have a top tier coaching/training program set up.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
BRIGGS
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4/26/2020  8:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/26/2020  8:43 PM
If we want to have sports it most likely will have to be televised only for at least 1 year. I think that’s as far as you can look forward. I just don’t see spectator sports for a period of time. Also money is gonna dry up — these players are gonna have to accept salaries that guys like Larry Bird made— good but not exorbitant. They’ll make great T V ratings and that has been missing and eventually arenas will be brought back at 1/8-1/16 type capacity but this is gonna be a slog. It’s up to the nba to put out the best product that can be available(or then again maybe they simply cancel a season or two) This is the least of problems in the world.

It would be nice for society to be able to turn to sports on Tv.NFL draft ratings were incredible I read. Needed outlet

RIP Crushalot😞
franco12
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4/27/2020  12:37 PM
BRIGGS wrote:If we want to have sports it most likely will have to be televised only for at least 1 year. I think that’s as far as you can look forward. I just don’t see spectator sports for a period of time. Also money is gonna dry up — these players are gonna have to accept salaries that guys like Larry Bird made— good but not exorbitant. They’ll make great T V ratings and that has been missing and eventually arenas will be brought back at 1/8-1/16 type capacity but this is gonna be a slog. It’s up to the nba to put out the best product that can be available(or then again maybe they simply cancel a season or two) This is the least of problems in the world.

It would be nice for society to be able to turn to sports on Tv.NFL draft ratings were incredible I read. Needed outlet

I'm looking at the Bundesliga being one of the first pro leagues to start up. Germany has gotten their COVID-19 in check pretty well.

Looks like they're starting with plans for basically empty arenas:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/23/bundesliga-return-in-may-now-looks-inevitable-but-fans-are-far-from-happy

I think with Basketball being indoors - and the close physical contact - a lot harder because if one player shows up infected, pretty much both teams could be fully exposed after a game.

And just looking for a breakdown in revenue - I don't see Larry bird salaries any time soon for top tier players. TV is the bulk of their revenue - and that will only go up once they are able to start playing again.

Now - maybe salaries are going to drop to levels from 3-5 years ago - but not to 30 years when Larry last played.

jrodmc
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4/27/2020  1:16 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think next year will definitely be an abbreviated season if there is one. I think the Knicks would be smart to stay the course with Perry and Miller with things so up in the air. I also think looking at next year as another developmental year would be smart. The 21 draft is supposed to be really strong and the Knicks will have cap space. This seems like a trust the process time, not a time to chase stars by moving assets. Not sure what will end up happening but the nba might be smart to lock the regular season standings, set the draft order and have the draft on 6/25. The nfl draft has been an oasis in this desert of no sports. The nba draft would be the same in my opinion. The nba became a 12 month league with the draft, free agency, summer league etc. Having something during this is better than nothing.

+1000

I think we should make RJ the number 1 scorer next season and see where that takes us. Get rid of Randle, forget about signing Morris and see how good RJ is at this point. It will expose him but we’ll know a lot more at least.

No issues with RJ as the face of the franchise (and especially fond of getting rid of Randle -easier said than done), but who the hell is going to feed him the ball? I don't think Frankie is the answer full time yet.

wargames
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4/27/2020  1:17 PM
jrodmc wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think next year will definitely be an abbreviated season if there is one. I think the Knicks would be smart to stay the course with Perry and Miller with things so up in the air. I also think looking at next year as another developmental year would be smart. The 21 draft is supposed to be really strong and the Knicks will have cap space. This seems like a trust the process time, not a time to chase stars by moving assets. Not sure what will end up happening but the nba might be smart to lock the regular season standings, set the draft order and have the draft on 6/25. The nfl draft has been an oasis in this desert of no sports. The nba draft would be the same in my opinion. The nba became a 12 month league with the draft, free agency, summer league etc. Having something during this is better than nothing.

+1000

I think we should make RJ the number 1 scorer next season and see where that takes us. Get rid of Randle, forget about signing Morris and see how good RJ is at this point. It will expose him but we’ll know a lot more at least.

No issues with RJ as the face of the franchise (and especially fond of getting rid of Randle -easier said than done), but who the hell is going to feed him the ball? I don't think Frankie is the answer full time yet.

Main reason I am on the Haliburton train.

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Nalod
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4/27/2020  1:29 PM
Halliburton and any other rookie PG might be in the same boat as Frankie short term. At this moment there is no Morant-Trae Yount type of talent to excite and hand the keys too.
I will prescribe all the cards are on the table except for RJ. Even Mitch if part of a big package is trade fodder perhaps.
Draft the best player possible, then by position.
As to how the NBA recovers? Discipline! One player breaks ranks and is contagious it becomes a shyt show!
TripleThreat
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7/9/2020  5:54 AM
smackeddog wrote:Obviously, bball is the least of our problems, but if all the above is true, I just don't get how the NBA is going to function for the next few seasons. What is the way forward for it? Do they just play with no crowds at all- what does that mean for team's revenue? Will teams go bust? Can it survive just on TV revenue for a couple of years?


The only viable solution is to remove the traditional schedule format and create "mixed" rosters and Tiers of competition level. Four teams dividing the best 60 players in the league. The rest of the league uses the same breakdown. The next group of guys, 61-120 form the next set of teams and on and on.

No one is paying to see Alex Caruso get a layup on a fast break. They want to see stars. Mixed rosters is the only way to prevent an entire team from a specific city to go under and then disbalance the schedule. An All Star team can lose a star or two and still push forward and be marketable. The Bucks lose Greek Freak in a traditional format? How bad is that going to be

It would mean killing normal seasons/playoffs and essentially run All Star games/exhibitions. Lower Tiers have skills competitions to entice fans.

Teams will stop giving long term contracts except to the rare Top 10 kind of player.

The cap taking hits over a period of years will necessitate the NFL marketplace system. Widespread use of non guaranteed contracts and shifting guaranteed money to signing/roster bonuses along with a hard cap. The league can't afford to let teams use continual amnesties for COVID19 cases and teams can't be anchored in a situation they are capped out while losing 2-3-4-5-6 guys for how knows long and are stuck with that dead money. COVID19 becomes a surrogate form of mass injury attrition.

The big problem though is the WNBA. It loses money. When you need to trim the fat, you start with cash sinkholes. The WNBA is a horrible product. People don't want to go to games, people don't want to watch it, it has literally no value to the league except as a form of social marketing. Once the suits, actuaries, lawyers and network guys get together, they will all say the same thing. Even though the WNBA costs are a smaller portion of cost compared to the entire NBA, it's still fat that can be immediately trimmed. Howeer killing the WNBA could spark backlash that could spiral unpredictably.

You have some genuinely dumbass people in the WNBA administration. And they were herded for years by the last administration who were also a bunch of idiots. Except you'd be called all kinds of things and dragged in public for calling them idiots.

Couple of danger points

1) If an individual team is completely decimated very quickly, or a few teams, the league might hold an emergency dispersal draft.This provision was only meant for a situation like one team all perishing in a plane crash or something of that nature. Not something like this ( i.e. having multiple teams at once go down) This could hurt the Knicks roster in a bad way depending on the attrition.

2) The current TV contract does not expire until 2025. With enough attrition and lose of seasons, the next TV deal could be a total nosedive. This would cause a mass devaluation of all NBA franchises. You would have owners trying to sell their teams before that hard date. If this happens, the end result might be actual contraction. Also if the NBA is gutted, so will the NCAA Tournament, thus the networks might all decide to drop the NBA altogether once the current contract ends. Long shot, but if it gets ugly enough.....

Guys. This is really bad. I've posted here for years and how often do I say things like that?

But I'm saying it now. This is the kind of potential **** sandwich where you don't get that cheap ass balloon bread. No, you get the really quality stuff made with care, love and attention. This kind of **** sandwich has that expensive imported cheese in it. The kind that entitled white soccer moms who down three bottles of Traders Joe wine every morning splurge on before they complain about how no one loves the WNBA but they don't watch it themselves because they need to get to pilates.

This one is the asteroid the size of Texas coming at us. I don't know if there is a Bruce Willis with a bunch of bad actors available to fly up, drill deep and drop a nuke in it. Speaking of bad actors who've worked with Captain Moonlighting - Liv Tyler looks like her father now. She's somewhere between winning a Mark Messier look a like contest and some random juiced out Cross Fit athletes jawline.

The point being the NBAs future only looks good standing next to Liv Tyler.

Nalod
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7/9/2020  1:55 PM
After about two weeks Triple is back in full force!
Go easy on Liv, she just north of 40 while her dad looks like Caitlyn Jenner.
How does the NBA recover from this? How does it effect the Knicks offseason?

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