One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

Chandler wrote:When he shoots, i expect it to go in. He may be the only guard on the entire team that I feel that way about; maybe the only player on the team

One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

I like his aggressiveness at times, and he clearly can shoot and finish, but he doesn't play winning basketball, he plays hero ball, Shoot and ask questions later ball. He needs to play more unselfish, regardless if he's hot or not.

when he gets it going, everybody else mind as well head back to the locker room, because he ain't passing the ball unless he gets trapped by 4 defenders.

he's been doing this since high school

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:When he shoots, i expect it to go in. He may be the only guard on the entire team that I feel that way about; maybe the only player on the team

One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

I like his aggressiveness at times, and he clearly can shoot and finish, but he doesn't play winning basketball, he plays hero ball, Shoot and ask questions later ball. He needs to play more unselfish, regardless if he's hot or not.

when he gets it going, everybody else mind as well head back to the locker room, because he ain't passing the ball unless he gets trapped by 4 defenders.

he's been doing this since high school

I agree. Cough cough........
He has elite iso skills and its pretty at times. When they let him out of the basement to do his thing on a stagnant team as we were last nite its "we should do more of this.....".
Its not conspiracy driven FO covering "for their guys". Zo was given his contract by this group so its not like that. Funny, he was given his contract and then it all came apart. Almost as if:
"We see you proven yourself as an NBA player offensively, but now you have a two year contract to grow out other parts of your game". Apparently he is not performing up to a standard. Not just Fiz, its miller and perhaps the league who did not make a trade for him. Its a mystery but filling in the blanks with an fictional agenda is logical. Fact is fans are not privy to this. I saw last night what I saw and close up. Defense was suspect as he could nt get thru a screen and he is hyper sensitive on non calls to the point of distraction. I don't think he sees the game, just him and the moment.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:When he shoots, i expect it to go in. He may be the only guard on the entire team that I feel that way about; maybe the only player on the team

One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

I like his aggressiveness at times, and he clearly can shoot and finish, but he doesn't play winning basketball, he plays hero ball, Shoot and ask questions later ball. He needs to play more unselfish, regardless if he's hot or not.

when he gets it going, everybody else mind as well head back to the locker room, because he ain't passing the ball unless he gets trapped by 4 defenders.

he's been doing this since high school

For the first time in a long while we agree on an assessment.

I always thought it strange that Trier and Deandre Ayton couldn't do much better that one year they were together. A super dominant big and a high level guard, but the ingredients for failure are there.

i have 5 reactions to this

1) I agree with the bold

2) he should still have a role -- Vinny The Microwave comes to mind.

3) is he progressing or regressing in this regard? For example, his true shooting percentage etc is high. it's not like he's being a ball hog and then shoots 40% like a former Knick now playing for Portland.

4) am i alone in feeling that someone like Dewayne Casey (or any of a number of other good coaches) would find a way to better utilize this skill. I think of Demar DeRozan with Casey in Toronto.

5) Bullock and Ellington are getting more minutes than Trier??? Knox??

mystified

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:When he shoots, i expect it to go in. He may be the only guard on the entire team that I feel that way about; maybe the only player on the team

One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

I like his aggressiveness at times, and he clearly can shoot and finish, but he doesn't play winning basketball, he plays hero ball, Shoot and ask questions later ball. He needs to play more unselfish, regardless if he's hot or not.

when he gets it going, everybody else mind as well head back to the locker room, because he ain't passing the ball unless he gets trapped by 4 defenders.

he's been doing this since high school

For the first time in a long while we agree on an assessment.

I always thought it strange that Trier and Deandre Ayton couldn't do much better that one year they were together. A super dominant big and a high level guard, but the ingredients for failure are there.

i have 5 reactions to this

1) I agree with the bold

2) he should still have a role -- Vinny The Microwave comes to mind.

3) is he progressing or regressing in this regard? For example, his true shooting percentage etc is high. it's not like he's being a ball hog and then shoots 40% like a former Knick now playing for Portland.

4) am i alone in feeling that someone like Dewayne Casey (or any of a number of other good coaches) would find a way to better utilize this skill. I think of Demar DeRozan with Casey in Toronto.

5) Bullock and Ellington are getting more minutes than Trier??? Knox??

mystified

Agreed with everything you are saying...Been saying this all year! Zo was damn-near 50-40-80 last year and one would think on a team that can't shoot straight, we can find mins for him. On a team that is supposed to be rebuilding, and developing its youth, how the hell can the teams best shooter not find a spot in the rotation? Zo was clearly better than Knox last year, is a better shooter and scorer than Dot.

Feels like there is something going on behind the scenes that we are not seeing. He will be another in the long line of former Knicks who will thrive elsewhere

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:When he shoots, i expect it to go in. He may be the only guard on the entire team that I feel that way about; maybe the only player on the team

One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

I like his aggressiveness at times, and he clearly can shoot and finish, but he doesn't play winning basketball, he plays hero ball, Shoot and ask questions later ball. He needs to play more unselfish, regardless if he's hot or not.

when he gets it going, everybody else mind as well head back to the locker room, because he ain't passing the ball unless he gets trapped by 4 defenders.

he's been doing this since high school

For the first time in a long while we agree on an assessment.

I always thought it strange that Trier and Deandre Ayton couldn't do much better that one year they were together. A super dominant big and a high level guard, but the ingredients for failure are there.

i have 5 reactions to this

1) I agree with the bold

2) he should still have a role -- Vinny The Microwave comes to mind.

3) is he progressing or regressing in this regard? For example, his true shooting percentage etc is high. it's not like he's being a ball hog and then shoots 40% like a former Knick now playing for Portland.

4) am i alone in feeling that someone like Dewayne Casey (or any of a number of other good coaches) would find a way to better utilize this skill. I think of Demar DeRozan with Casey in Toronto.

5) Bullock and Ellington are getting more minutes than Trier??? Knox??

mystified

Agreed with everything you are saying...Been saying this all year! Zo was damn-near 50-40-80 last year and one would think on a team that can't shoot straight, we can find mins for him. On a team that is supposed to be rebuilding, and developing its youth, how the hell can the teams best shooter not find a spot in the rotation? Zo was clearly better than Knox last year, is a better shooter and scorer than Dot.

Feels like there is something going on behind the scenes that we are not seeing. He will be another in the long line of former Knicks who will thrive elsewhere

Zo was 45-40-80 last year, which is a big difference from 50-40-80. His eFG% was < .500, which is not really that good. His assists to TO were nearly 2-to-2 last year per 22 minutes, which is poor.

Iso guy, so poor team offensive player. Easily picked and very poor team defender, so both a bad individual and team defender. Ball stopper.

Both Fiz and Miller thought this guy would not help the team even though the Knicks greatest weakness is outside shooting, which is exactly his strength.

So...... is this that hard to figure out?

I agree that Trier had his negatives on the court. Believe the logjam of vets to evaluate, made it hard to find regular minutes for Trier, to work things out. Still surprised he was buried on the bench for as long as he was. There were times where it couldnt have hurt to give Zo a brief look to see how his game was progressing.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:When he shoots, i expect it to go in. He may be the only guard on the entire team that I feel that way about; maybe the only player on the team

One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

I like his aggressiveness at times, and he clearly can shoot and finish, but he doesn't play winning basketball, he plays hero ball, Shoot and ask questions later ball. He needs to play more unselfish, regardless if he's hot or not.

when he gets it going, everybody else mind as well head back to the locker room, because he ain't passing the ball unless he gets trapped by 4 defenders.

he's been doing this since high school

For the first time in a long while we agree on an assessment.

I always thought it strange that Trier and Deandre Ayton couldn't do much better that one year they were together. A super dominant big and a high level guard, but the ingredients for failure are there.

i have 5 reactions to this

1) I agree with the bold

2) he should still have a role -- Vinny The Microwave comes to mind.

3) is he progressing or regressing in this regard? For example, his true shooting percentage etc is high. it's not like he's being a ball hog and then shoots 40% like a former Knick now playing for Portland.

4) am i alone in feeling that someone like Dewayne Casey (or any of a number of other good coaches) would find a way to better utilize this skill. I think of Demar DeRozan with Casey in Toronto.

5) Bullock and Ellington are getting more minutes than Trier??? Knox??

mystified

Agreed with everything you are saying...Been saying this all year! Zo was damn-near 50-40-80 last year and one would think on a team that can't shoot straight, we can find mins for him. On a team that is supposed to be rebuilding, and developing its youth, how the hell can the teams best shooter not find a spot in the rotation? Zo was clearly better than Knox last year, is a better shooter and scorer than Dot.

Feels like there is something going on behind the scenes that we are not seeing. He will be another in the long line of former Knicks who will thrive elsewhere

Zo was 45-40-80 last year, which is a big difference from 50-40-80. His eFG% was < .500, which is not really that good. His assists to TO were nearly 2-to-2 last year per 22 minutes, which is poor.

Iso guy, so poor team offensive player. Easily picked and very poor team defender, so both a bad individual and team defender. Ball stopper.

Both Fiz and Miller thought this guy would not help the team even though the Knicks greatest weakness is outside shooting, which is exactly his strength.

So...... is this that hard to figure out?

I agree that Trier had his negatives on the court. Believe the logjam of vets to evaluate, made it hard to find regular minutes for Trier, to work things out. Still surprised he was buried on the bench for as long as he was. There were times where it couldnt have hurt to give Zo a brief look to see how his game was progressing.

and yet 2 guys who jobs literally depend/ed on a couple of more wins didn't think it would be a good thing. Says a lot about Trier

Couple of minutes of garbage time, a couple of minutes when the Knicks are all but out of it. Those arent situations where their job would be on the line. Maybe there is more to it.

There were articles last season which suggested that Trier's tunnel vision was rubbing some of the younger players the wrong way. He was looking off teammates who were also trying to crack the rotation, establish themselves. Even after Zo did that, he was still looking off teammates. Maybe that also rubbed the coaches the wrong way.

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:When he shoots, i expect it to go in. He may be the only guard on the entire team that I feel that way about; maybe the only player on the team

One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

I like his aggressiveness at times, and he clearly can shoot and finish, but he doesn't play winning basketball, he plays hero ball, Shoot and ask questions later ball. He needs to play more unselfish, regardless if he's hot or not.

when he gets it going, everybody else mind as well head back to the locker room, because he ain't passing the ball unless he gets trapped by 4 defenders.

he's been doing this since high school

For the first time in a long while we agree on an assessment.

I always thought it strange that Trier and Deandre Ayton couldn't do much better that one year they were together. A super dominant big and a high level guard, but the ingredients for failure are there.

i have 5 reactions to this

1) I agree with the bold

2) he should still have a role -- Vinny The Microwave comes to mind.

3) is he progressing or regressing in this regard? For example, his true shooting percentage etc is high. it's not like he's being a ball hog and then shoots 40% like a former Knick now playing for Portland.

4) am i alone in feeling that someone like Dewayne Casey (or any of a number of other good coaches) would find a way to better utilize this skill. I think of Demar DeRozan with Casey in Toronto.

5) Bullock and Ellington are getting more minutes than Trier??? Knox??

mystified

Agreed with everything you are saying...Been saying this all year! Zo was damn-near 50-40-80 last year and one would think on a team that can't shoot straight, we can find mins for him. On a team that is supposed to be rebuilding, and developing its youth, how the hell can the teams best shooter not find a spot in the rotation? Zo was clearly better than Knox last year, is a better shooter and scorer than Dot.

Feels like there is something going on behind the scenes that we are not seeing. He will be another in the long line of former Knicks who will thrive elsewhere

Zo was 45-40-80 last year, which is a big difference from 50-40-80. His eFG% was < .500, which is not really that good. His assists to TO were nearly 2-to-2 last year per 22 minutes, which is poor.

Iso guy, so poor team offensive player. Easily picked and very poor team defender, so both a bad individual and team defender. Ball stopper.

Both Fiz and Miller thought this guy would not help the team even though the Knicks greatest weakness is outside shooting, which is exactly his strength.

So...... is this that hard to figure out?

Zo's efg% is .51 for his short career and .57 this year which may not be that good, yet RJ is sitting @ .43, Frank is @ .42 and Knox is @ .44.

It's well understood what Zo's weaknesses are; an iso, ball stopper who can get buckets in bunches, good shooter but is a poor defender. That label can be placed on a bunch of 6th men who have played in the NBA from Lou Williams (efg% .48), to Jamal Crawford (efg%. 48), and Bobby Jackson (efg% .47), etc...I'm not calling for starter minutes. just a spot in the rotation, especially on a team that preached rebuilding last year. Especially on a team loaded with poor shooters particularly in the back court. It makes no sense to me why journeymen like Bullock, who has not been good at all and Ellington get looks before Zo on a team that is supposed to be rebuilding.

Fiz and Miller not playing Zo could be an indictment on Zo....or it could be an indictment on them. Fiz has had 2 jobs and couldn't finish 2 complete seasons at either spot, and Miller is an interim coach whose claim to fame is the G league. We've seen many players over the years struggle early in their careers due to a bad fit with a particular coach or system, only to blossom elsewhere. Dale Ellis was one of the best shooters in the history of the league barely sniffed the court for Dick Motta. He flourished and turned into an allstar under Bernie Bickerstaff in Seattle...Not saying Zo will be the next Ellis, but coaches are prone to make bad decisions as well....

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:When he shoots, i expect it to go in. He may be the only guard on the entire team that I feel that way about; maybe the only player on the team

One may think that perhaps he's riding pine for his defense, but if that were the reason he should have a lot more company

So what gives exactly? I'm at a loss for a rational explanation. Wondering if this is GM driven, having coaches play their new FAs or DSJ instead???

I like his aggressiveness at times, and he clearly can shoot and finish, but he doesn't play winning basketball, he plays hero ball, Shoot and ask questions later ball. He needs to play more unselfish, regardless if he's hot or not.

when he gets it going, everybody else mind as well head back to the locker room, because he ain't passing the ball unless he gets trapped by 4 defenders.

he's been doing this since high school

For the first time in a long while we agree on an assessment.

I always thought it strange that Trier and Deandre Ayton couldn't do much better that one year they were together. A super dominant big and a high level guard, but the ingredients for failure are there.

i have 5 reactions to this

1) I agree with the bold

2) he should still have a role -- Vinny The Microwave comes to mind.

3) is he progressing or regressing in this regard? For example, his true shooting percentage etc is high. it's not like he's being a ball hog and then shoots 40% like a former Knick now playing for Portland.

4) am i alone in feeling that someone like Dewayne Casey (or any of a number of other good coaches) would find a way to better utilize this skill. I think of Demar DeRozan with Casey in Toronto.

5) Bullock and Ellington are getting more minutes than Trier??? Knox??

mystified

Agreed with everything you are saying...Been saying this all year! Zo was damn-near 50-40-80 last year and one would think on a team that can't shoot straight, we can find mins for him. On a team that is supposed to be rebuilding, and developing its youth, how the hell can the teams best shooter not find a spot in the rotation? Zo was clearly better than Knox last year, is a better shooter and scorer than Dot.

Feels like there is something going on behind the scenes that we are not seeing. He will be another in the long line of former Knicks who will thrive elsewhere

Zo was 45-40-80 last year, which is a big difference from 50-40-80. His eFG% was < .500, which is not really that good. His assists to TO were nearly 2-to-2 last year per 22 minutes, which is poor.

Iso guy, so poor team offensive player. Easily picked and very poor team defender, so both a bad individual and team defender. Ball stopper.

Both Fiz and Miller thought this guy would not help the team even though the Knicks greatest weakness is outside shooting, which is exactly his strength.

So...... is this that hard to figure out?

Zo's efg% is .51 for his short career and .57 this year which may not be that good, yet RJ is sitting @ .43, Frank is @ .42 and Knox is @ .44.

It's well understood what Zo's weaknesses are; an iso, ball stopper who can get buckets in bunches, good shooter but is a poor defender. That label can be placed on a bunch of 6th men who have played in the NBA from Lou Williams (efg% .48), to Jamal Crawford (efg%. 48), and Bobby Jackson (efg% .47), etc...I'm not calling for starter minutes. just a spot in the rotation, especially on a team that preached rebuilding last year. Especially on a team loaded with poor shooters particularly in the back court. It makes no sense to me why journeymen like Bullock, who has not been good at all and Ellington get looks before Zo on a team that is supposed to be rebuilding.

Fiz and Miller not playing Zo could be an indictment on Zo....or it could be an indictment on them. Fiz has had 2 jobs and couldn't finish 2 complete seasons at either spot, and Miller is an interim coach whose claim to fame is the G league. We've seen many players over the years struggle early in their careers due to a bad fit with a particular coach or system, only to blossom elsewhere. Dale Ellis was one of the best shooters in the history of the league barely sniffed the court for Dick Motta. He flourished and turned into an allstar under Bernie Bickerstaff in Seattle...Not saying Zo will be the next Ellis, but coaches are prone to make bad decisions as well....

Good points. Except i like Miller a lot. I have a stronger feeling this is driven by upper mgmt. Not a good look if they play Trier over ellington and bullock and DSJ and kk (who i still like and have hope for) and frank and maybe even RJ (when he's going 1 for 7). I mean it's not like he's buried on the bench because our team is good

also i don't get the comments about picks and this has plagued him. Last year and even for parts of this we were switching on everything.

and to be clear, i think he and everyone else needs to earn minutes. I'm just mystified that we look at him and say he's earned no minutes but DSJ can go out there and play stupid 90% of the time.

I also don't think he leveraged KD relationship for his payday. Instead i think the thought was he was one of those rare UDFA finds

and while we call him selfish (and he is) he probably ranks behind Portis, Randle and DSJ in that department