First, Mitch, Frank, portis for Dlo .

How come in all the trade rumors we are getting hosed .

Stick to the plan retain flexibility while developing the youth, this is a rebuild don’t blow it for Rozier or Dlo neither one of those guys are bringing us to the promise land.

Are we seriously about to trade frank our best defensive player who is 21?

Are we seriously about to give up on a 20 year old in Knox

Mitch????

Our potential top 5 pick .

I think we are all tired of losing but this is when we need to stay strong! DSJR finally looks healthy players are finding there roles in Mikes system. Why shake it up mike is getting these guys to play to there strength ala a sign of a great coach. My vote is to give this team more time to gel.

fitzfarm wrote:Julius for Rozier are you kidding me have you seen terry’s stats this year ? It’s like getting a second tier pg for a first tier pf

First, Mitch, Frank, portis for Dlo .

How come in all the trade rumors we are getting hosed .

Stick to the plan retain flexibility while developing the youth, this is a rebuild don’t blow it for Rozier or Dlo neither one of those guys are bringing us to the promise land.

Are we seriously about to trade frank our best defensive player who is 21?

Are we seriously about to give up on a 20 year old in Knox

Mitch????

Our potential top 5 pick .

I think we are all tired of losing but this is when we need to stay strong! DSJR finally looks healthy players are finding there roles in Mikes system. Why shake it up mike is getting these guys to play to there strength ala a sign of a great coach. My vote is to give this team more time to gel.

Honestly keep DSJR he finally looks healthy, the only guy I’d look to move In general are vets like Payton or portis.

NYKBocker wrote:I agree. They need to be firm that RJ, Mitch, Frank are untouchables. Stick with that core. I would put Dotson and maybe Knox in there but everybody is available.

Why is Frank untouchable? He's a good defender and still very young, but hasn't improved offensively in his 3rd year. His numbers are identical to his rookie season. I don't want to trade him away for anything, but he's the furthest thing from untouchable. I'm really concerned that this passive nature will never allow him to be an NBA level scorer.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I agree. They need to be firm that RJ, Mitch, Frank are untouchables. Stick with that core. I would put Dotson and maybe Knox in there but everybody is available.

Why is Frank untouchable? He's a good defender and still very young, but hasn't improved offensively in his 3rd year. His numbers are identical to his rookie season. I don't want to trade him away for anything, but he's the furthest thing from untouchable. I'm really concerned that this passive nature will never allow him to be an NBA level scorer.

No they aren't. He has been improving his numbers from rookie to this year. Start looking past raw points and assists per game. What you are doing is like looking at FG% when you know there is eFG% out there that is a lot more effective to look at. Or TS%.

Has he made a tremendous jump? Nope. But if he continues the incremental he can be a solid player on a playoff team.

Thank you kind sir.

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I agree. They need to be firm that RJ, Mitch, Frank are untouchables. Stick with that core. I would put Dotson and maybe Knox in there but everybody is available.

Why is Frank untouchable? He's a good defender and still very young, but hasn't improved offensively in his 3rd year. His numbers are identical to his rookie season. I don't want to trade him away for anything, but he's the furthest thing from untouchable. I'm really concerned that this passive nature will never allow him to be an NBA level scorer.

No they aren't. He has been improving his numbers from rookie to this year. Start looking past raw points and assists per game. What you are doing is like looking at FG% when you know there is eFG% out there that is a lot more effective to look at. Or TS%.

Has he made a tremendous jump? Nope. But if he continues the incremental he can be a solid player on a playoff team.

Thank you kind sir.

You shouldn't have to look that hard for improvement. I get the advanced stats argument, but he's still not putting the ball in the basket any more than his rookie year. The small incremental improvement just isn't enough, he needs a true spike. He's the same shooter he was 2 years ago, not hitting open shots. Either way, he's not in the untouchable category by any means.

The key word on my post is "I". These discussions are personal preference. Frank to me has a high ceiling due to his top tier defense. It is really hard to find players that are really good at 1 thing. This kid has that. I can wait for his offense to come. Like martin has mentioned, he has improved somewhat in his offense. That is good enough for me.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I agree. They need to be firm that RJ, Mitch, Frank are untouchables. Stick with that core. I would put Dotson and maybe Knox in there but everybody is available.

Why is Frank untouchable? He's a good defender and still very young, but hasn't improved offensively in his 3rd year. His numbers are identical to his rookie season. I don't want to trade him away for anything, but he's the furthest thing from untouchable. I'm really concerned that this passive nature will never allow him to be an NBA level scorer.

No they aren't. He has been improving his numbers from rookie to this year. Start looking past raw points and assists per game. What you are doing is like looking at FG% when you know there is eFG% out there that is a lot more effective to look at. Or TS%.

Has he made a tremendous jump? Nope. But if he continues the incremental he can be a solid player on a playoff team.

Thank you kind sir.

You shouldn't have to look that hard for improvement. I get the advanced stats argument, but he's still not putting the ball in the basket any more than his rookie year. The small incremental improvement just isn't enough, he needs a true spike. He's the same shooter he was 2 years ago, not hitting open shots. Either way, he's not in the untouchable category by any means.

IDK man, this is kind of getting silly.

If he is not untouchable for you, great. If he is NOT a good enough shooter for you, great.

eFG%: .414 to .448
TS%: .437 to .483

If anything Frank just doesn't shoot at the same rate, and his 3pt% hasn't increased.

If in 2 years Franks numbers took the same jump, he would be an incredible 2-way player IMHO. I'm a patient buyer. Knicks need to make sure his next contract is right for the team.

It seems like your bar is looking thru the prism of a scoring PG, Frank isn't that guy.

You are making the wrong argument.

I'd like to keep Frank, i think he's a very useful backup. All i'm saying is it's crazy to call him "untradeable." He's not a core piece. He's just a piece.

Sambakick wrote:

martin wrote:If in 2 years Franks numbers took the same jump, he would be an incredible 2-way player IMHO. I'm a patient buyer. Knicks need to make sure his next contract is right for the team.

It seems like your bar is looking thru the prism of a scoring PG, Frank isn't that guy.

You are making the wrong argument.

So what is best case scenario? I ask this legitimately. Here are the paths i see for Frank:

? Are we looking at Frank as our long-term backup PG? Then i agree with others who say that is not an "untouchable" position.

? Do we believe he is the answer as starting PG? That's really hard to see ever happening because of the missing offensive game. And i don't just mean shooting. It's ball handling. Its not making telegraphed passes. Upping his assist totals significantly.

? Do we believe Frank to be our "Boris Diaw" style swiss-army guy off the bench who can play and defend multiple positions and shut guys down while not hurting the team offensively? I personally think this is where he fits best. But is that "untouchable"?

? Is Frank actually best suited to be a starting SG or even a SF? I could buy this as well. His shooting is getting better. But then do you move RJ to SF? What about Knox's development? You're robbing peter to pay paul.

I think in general we need to hold onto our kids a little longer. I don't want to make any trades at the deadline.

I like our kids. I'm willing to see them grow and expand into the next season. On the other hand, we need to clear out some of the "seasoned" players so that our youth get a chance to shine. If there is a market for Portis, Morris, Ellington, Gibson and Bullock,then thank you for your services and good luck with your new teams.