martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...

Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.

Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.

Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis

True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.

I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.

Some on here will spin that to say how incredibly unselfish he has become. Lol
Don't get me wrong, think he is doing fine. Takes time and he is young. Just don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. Feel that spot is where you try to hit a home run. Frank is no home run. Grant it, when you swing for the fences you strike out a lot but still, think that is what you should do with a top 10. If not, then trade down and pick up two picks where you can pick up solid role players. However, he is a Knick and I root for all Knicks. May not seem like it sometimes but just think the narrative of some over stating his ability is to do to do with Frank and more to do about their unfair expectations at the time he was drafted.

Those are your unrealistic expectations. If it held true you’d get more all star type players with an eighth selection over time, and there aren’t.

I had NO expectations for Frank. Saw him as a role guy. Biggest reason why I opposed the pick. Nor do I believe you can count on the draft as a high probability to get a star at any position. Chances of hitting in the draft is the same as hitting on the lottery on Wednesdays. Still, if your gonna play the lottery why not play the one with the $300 million dollar jackpot. Not the $100K one. Specially at the 8. I think draft picks are better used as assets than to realize high impact players. Unless its a top three pick, Think those are probable 10 year solid NBA guys. Anything below that is pure speculation. So why not go for a guy that can jump out of the building and has the highest ceiling. Not a guy that plays good D and is showing role player potential. If not, as stated, trade him for multiple good role players or a proven 3-5 year guy.

The ones with the expectations or hope there of, are the ones trying to justify Frank as the pick. I'm the one who is okay with where he is now and don't see the need to fluff the result. He is a Knick and is getting better everyday. He plays solid defense, plays old school fundamental ball and shares the ball. Some can keep trying to make my opinion about disliking Frank, but it's about calling out the fluff and backing my opinion that we should have tried hitting a home run or traded the pick for MORE assets. Regardless of the result.

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...

Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.

Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.

Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis

True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.

I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.

Some on here will spin that to say how incredibly unselfish he has become. Lol
Don't get me wrong, think he is doing fine. Takes time and he is young. Just don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. Feel that spot is where you try to hit a home run. Frank is no home run. Grant it, when you swing for the fences you strike out a lot but still, think that is what you should do with a top 10. If not, then trade down and pick up two picks where you can pick up solid role players. However, he is a Knick and I root for all Knicks. May not seem like it sometimes but just think the narrative of some over stating his ability is to do to do with Frank and more to do about their unfair expectations at the time he was drafted.

Those are your unrealistic expectations. If it held true you’d get more all star type players with an eighth selection over time, and there aren’t.

I had NO expectations for Frank. Saw him as a role guy. Biggest reason why I opposed the pick. Nor do I believe you can count on the draft as a high probability to get a star at any position. Chances of hitting in the draft is the same as hitting on the lottery on Wednesdays. Still, if your gonna play the lottery why not play the one with the $300 million dollar jackpot. Not the $100K one. Specially at the 8. I think draft picks are better used as assets than to realize high impact players. Unless its a top three pick, Think those are probable 10 year solid NBA guys. Anything below that is pure speculation. So why not go for a guy that can jump out of the building and has the highest ceiling. Not a guy that plays good D and is showing role player potential. If not, as stated, trade him for multiple good role players or a proven 3-5 year guy.

The ones with the expectations or hope there of, are the ones trying to justify Frank as the pick. I'm the one who is okay with where he is now and don't see the need to fluff the result. He is a Knick and is getting better everyday. He plays solid defense, plays old school fundamental ball and shares the ball. Some can keep trying to make my opinion about disliking Frank, but it's about calling out the fluff and backing my opinion that we should have tried hitting a home run or traded the pick for MORE assets. Regardless of the result.

In just 2 1/2 yrs he has had 3 coaches (4 if you count the french coach in the summer) and has played with over 40 different players. He has had to deal with NYC nightlife, a new country, the media, the losing, the trade rumors, his finances, his family, and we have all read that the entire organization doesnt feel the same as MILLs does about him

When you put all that sht together you tell me is this the best place to develop a 21 yr old kid like him from france..

Put him in a small market, on a team with stability and winning environment that actual has a real development process, with High IQ veterans like the france team, and he will shine consistently in his role.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...

Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.

Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.

Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis

True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.

I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.

Some on here will spin that to say how incredibly unselfish he has become. Lol
Don't get me wrong, think he is doing fine. Takes time and he is young. Just don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. Feel that spot is where you try to hit a home run. Frank is no home run. Grant it, when you swing for the fences you strike out a lot but still, think that is what you should do with a top 10. If not, then trade down and pick up two picks where you can pick up solid role players. However, he is a Knick and I root for all Knicks. May not seem like it sometimes but just think the narrative of some over stating his ability is to do to do with Frank and more to do about their unfair expectations at the time he was drafted.

Those are your unrealistic expectations. If it held true you’d get more all star type players with an eighth selection over time, and there aren’t.

I had NO expectations for Frank. Saw him as a role guy. Biggest reason why I opposed the pick. Nor do I believe you can count on the draft as a high probability to get a star at any position. Chances of hitting in the draft is the same as hitting on the lottery on Wednesdays. Still, if your gonna play the lottery why not play the one with the $300 million dollar jackpot. Not the $100K one. Specially at the 8. I think draft picks are better used as assets than to realize high impact players. Unless its a top three pick, Think those are probable 10 year solid NBA guys. Anything below that is pure speculation. So why not go for a guy that can jump out of the building and has the highest ceiling. Not a guy that plays good D and is showing role player potential. If not, as stated, trade him for multiple good role players or a proven 3-5 year guy.

The ones with the expectations or hope there of, are the ones trying to justify Frank as the pick. I'm the one who is okay with where he is now and don't see the need to fluff the result. He is a Knick and is getting better everyday. He plays solid defense, plays old school fundamental ball and shares the ball. Some can keep trying to make my opinion about disliking Frank, but it's about calling out the fluff and backing my opinion that we should have tried hitting a home run or traded the pick for MORE assets. Regardless of the result.

In just 2 1/2 yrs he has had 3 coaches (4 if you count the french coach in the summer) and has played with over 40 different players. He has had to deal with NYC nightlife, a new country, the media, the losing, the trade rumors, his finances, his family, and we have all read that the entire organization doesnt feel the same as MILLs does about him

When you put all that sht together you tell me is this the best place to develop a 21 yr old kid like him from france..

Put him in a small market, on a team with stability and winning environment that actual has a real development process, with High IQ veterans like the france team, and he will shine consistently in his role.

gee whiz that sounds a lot like someone painfully admitting Frank is going to be a good player. Hey, at the same age your loverboy Bledsoe average 7ppg and 3 assists. So there is that.

BTW we are hoping to do the same with you. Surround you with a loving supportive environment, engage you with compassion and hope you grow into your role as a better ultimateknicks poster.

Frank isn't going to be a good player on the KNICKS

Our entire young core has regress to some extent, in fact there are so many article on Knox, Mitch and Franks regression (even one today on mitch..do your research). Our development is a complete laughing stock and you know it.

I have said more than a 100X that NY isn't for frank, but you will turn my comment into something so far off it's not even worth reading or responding.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...

Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.

Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.

Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis

True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.

I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.

Some on here will spin that to say how incredibly unselfish he has become. Lol
Don't get me wrong, think he is doing fine. Takes time and he is young. Just don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. Feel that spot is where you try to hit a home run. Frank is no home run. Grant it, when you swing for the fences you strike out a lot but still, think that is what you should do with a top 10. If not, then trade down and pick up two picks where you can pick up solid role players. However, he is a Knick and I root for all Knicks. May not seem like it sometimes but just think the narrative of some over stating his ability is to do to do with Frank and more to do about their unfair expectations at the time he was drafted.

Those are your unrealistic expectations. If it held true you’d get more all star type players with an eighth selection over time, and there aren’t.

I had NO expectations for Frank. Saw him as a role guy. Biggest reason why I opposed the pick. Nor do I believe you can count on the draft as a high probability to get a star at any position. Chances of hitting in the draft is the same as hitting on the lottery on Wednesdays. Still, if your gonna play the lottery why not play the one with the $300 million dollar jackpot. Not the $100K one. Specially at the 8. I think draft picks are better used as assets than to realize high impact players. Unless its a top three pick, Think those are probable 10 year solid NBA guys. Anything below that is pure speculation. So why not go for a guy that can jump out of the building and has the highest ceiling. Not a guy that plays good D and is showing role player potential. If not, as stated, trade him for multiple good role players or a proven 3-5 year guy.

The ones with the expectations or hope there of, are the ones trying to justify Frank as the pick. I'm the one who is okay with where he is now and don't see the need to fluff the result. He is a Knick and is getting better everyday. He plays solid defense, plays old school fundamental ball and shares the ball. Some can keep trying to make my opinion about disliking Frank, but it's about calling out the fluff and backing my opinion that we should have tried hitting a home run or traded the pick for MORE assets. Regardless of the result.

In just 2 1/2 yrs he has had 3 coaches (4 if you count the french coach in the summer) and has played with over 40 different players. He has had to deal with NYC nightlife, a new country, the media, the losing, the trade rumors, his finances, his family, and we have all read that the entire organization doesnt feel the same as MILLs does about him

When you put all that sht together you tell me is this the best place to develop a 21 yr old kid like him from france..

Put him in a small market, on a team with stability and winning environment that actual has a real development process, with High IQ veterans like the france team, and he will shine consistently in his role.

gee whiz that sounds a lot like someone painfully admitting Frank is going to be a good player. Hey, at the same age your loverboy Bledsoe average 7ppg and 3 assists. So there is that.

BTW we are hoping to do the same with you. Surround you with a loving supportive environment, engage you with compassion and hope you grow into your role as a better ultimateknicks poster.

Frank still has a ways to go to be considered a reliable bench player. Considering that he was sold by some around here as being the best thing since sliced brioche. Believe its fair to point out in year 3 that we're still waiting on Frank to become that player.