What is the Knicks 2+ year plan? I think it involves taking a shot at Antonio Davis and/or Greek Freak.

franco12 wrote:Actually - as I think about this - the question really is what does the next step for our team look like.

They were in the clipper game - since Fizdale was canned and we got a real coach, we've been playing well and have just fallen short at times against really good teams.

Keep this group together, largely, add someone like VanFleet and our 2020 draft pick and have some players take next steps like Knox, Robinson, Frank and Barrett - and I think we'd legitimately (baring major injuries) have a shot at winning in the 40s - so anywhere from 40-49.

I'm trying to be objective and not rose colored glasses Nixluva like.

IMHO I think AD/Giannis both have this year and next and then will make either a 1 year commitment to same team IF everyone is healthy and they get to finals AND there is not another team to jump to long term for a max 4-5 year deal. Both would be around 28/27 (AD/G). I just don't see a path for both guys to stay on same team with a healthy long term roster (everyone else around them in current form will be on wrong side of 30 barring dramatic moves).

Realistically, AD has this year and next with LeBron (35 right now). No way LeBron lasts til 37 as a top line player and if you look at their other guys, Green would be 34, Brady 32, etc. Only young guy on team is Kuzma. I see AD as a Laker for this year and next, after that how do the Lakers build a championship team with LeBron at like $40M and AD at $35M?

Same goes for Giannis, after this year and next in Milwaukee, Bledsoe, Middleton, Lopez, Hill, etc. will be in the 30-33 range and who knows if all of them would last past that as top line players performing to today's standards. Would Greek Freak sign a 1 year deal with those guys to try one more time or move to a new team with a 4-5 year deal?

Those are the 2 guys I would hold out cap space for and build up to. Does this have to be an exclusive plan? No, but I'd make sure they were in the long term thoughts.

Knicks will have had 3 additional first round draft picks added to team going into 2022 season, 2 this upcoming draft (which sucks cause the draft is not supposed to be good). Got to nail one of them or combine and move up. And some of the young guys would have to grow for either superstar to want to join team.

Mitch, RJ, Frank, Knox, DSJr will all be 24 and younger (23 if you don't count DSJr) in 2 years. Can you believe it? In 2 years those guys are all still waaaay young. Plus 3 first rounders and maybe another with Morris trade. Knicks will also have 2 first rounders in 2023 draft (Dallas is protected 1-10).

I am actually AOK with not making playoffs this year for a shot at a better pick, got to be top 5 at least, they are #4 right now. Next year HAS to be a good playing year, playoffs are a must to show AD/Giannis that they got the goods. How good can RJ, Mitch, Knox, Frank and 2 draft picks be next year with Randle, etc.? Knicks do need a guard that can break down defense and get his own shot on a regular basis.

I'm glad Iggy is doing work in GLeague and I'm keeping an eye on Kenny Wooten as a bench guy in a mold of a smaller Mitch.

martin wrote:Saw this in the VanFleet thread and had been meaning to start another similar topic.

What is the Knicks 2+ year plan? I think it involves taking a shot at Antonio Davis and/or Greek Freak.

franco12 wrote:Actually - as I think about this - the question really is what does the next step for our team look like.

They were in the clipper game - since Fizdale was canned and we got a real coach, we've been playing well and have just fallen short at times against really good teams.

Keep this group together, largely, add someone like VanFleet and our 2020 draft pick and have some players take next steps like Knox, Robinson, Frank and Barrett - and I think we'd legitimately (baring major injuries) have a shot at winning in the 40s - so anywhere from 40-49.

I'm trying to be objective and not rose colored glasses Nixluva like.

IMHO I think AD/Giannis both have this year and next and then will make either a 1 year commitment to same team IF everyone is healthy and they get to finals AND there is not another team to jump to long term for a max 4-5 year deal. Both would be around 28/27 (AD/G). I just don't see a path for both guys to stay on same team with a healthy long term roster (everyone else around them in current form will be on wrong side of 30 barring dramatic moves).

Realistically, AD has this year and next with LeBron (35 right now). No way LeBron lasts til 37 as a top line player and if you look at their other guys, Green would be 34, Brady 32, etc. Only young guy on team is Kuzma. I see AD as a Laker for this year and next, after that how do the Lakers build a championship team with LeBron at like $40M and AD at $35M?

Same goes for Giannis, after this year and next in Milwaukee, Bledsoe, Middleton, Lopez, Hill, etc. will be in the 30-33 range and who knows if all of them would last past that as top line players performing to today's standards. Would Greek Freak sign a 1 year deal with those guys to try one more time or move to a new team with a 4-5 year deal?

Those are the 2 guys I would hold out cap space for and build up to. Does this have to be an exclusive plan? No, but I'd make sure they were in the long term thoughts.

Knicks will have had 3 additional first round draft picks added to team going into 2022 season, 2 this upcoming draft (which sucks cause the draft is not supposed to be good). Got to nail one of them or combine and move up. And some of the young guys would have to grow for either superstar to want to join team.

Mitch, RJ, Frank, Knox, DSJr will all be 24 and younger (23 if you don't count DSJr) in 2 years. Can you believe it? In 2 years those guys are all still waaaay young. Plus 3 first rounders and maybe another with Morris trade. Knicks will also have 2 first rounders in 2023 draft (Dallas is protected 1-10).

I am actually AOK with not making playoffs this year for a shot at a better pick, got to be top 5 at least, they are #4 right now. Next year HAS to be a good playing year, playoffs are a must to show AD/Giannis that they got the goods. How good can RJ, Mitch, Knox, Frank and 2 draft picks be next year with Randle, etc.? Knicks do need a guard that can break down defense and get his own shot on a regular basis.

I'm glad Iggy is doing work in GLeague and I'm keeping an eye on Kenny Wooten as a bench guy in a mold of a smaller Mitch.

There was a weird comment by Jonathon Macari on the Knicks Film School podcast, where he said he wasn't going to say anymore, but he's fearful of the Knicks making a huge trade offer (i.e. empty all the trade assets) for Ben Simmons. I thought at the time it was a weird fear to have because it doesn't make any sense, but thinking about it he does seem to have a team source lately.

Can you think of a Simmons trade that would make sense for either the Knicks or Sixers? I can't! He can't shoot or hit free throws- how many of those do we need? Only way I can think of the Sizers being interested would be a three team or more, maybe landing CP3 from OKC.

It seems like the Knicks plan is basically to carry on accumulating picks and developing players and then trade for the first player who becomes disgruntled/moveable (be it Simmons, Towns whomever). the problem with that it there are two teams with a tonne more pick assets than us (OKC and Pelicans) who also have better young moveable players than us- we'll get easily outbid.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/chrisbhaynes/status/1214637115289456640

Giannis is a tougher nut to crack. Milwaukee is a dump (apologies to Milwaukeens) and i can easily see him in NY compared to Milwaukee to get all the benefits/culture NY has to offer. But there are other cities that can do same, e.g., LA. If Milwaukee continues to win big and go deep, i think he stays there; if not i can see him moving but think the chance of landing him is much lower.

We need to keep our heads down and draft top talent, develop young players and make prudent FA signings.

elmaestro33 wrote:Any future plan should not involve banking on landing a superstar FA. Haven't you guys learned anything in the past 10 years? We've thrown everything out the window (including KP) hoping to land a mega star in FA time after time again. It all started with LeBron back in 2010 and repeated for KD and Kyrie in 2019.

We need to keep our heads down and draft top talent, develop young players and make prudent FA signings.

These things are not mutually exclusive. You can do both and it's prudent to plan for AD/Giannis. You never bank on anything but you can plan the hell out of all possibilities

jrodmc wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:Saw this in the VanFleet thread and had been meaning to start another similar topic.

What is the Knicks 2+ year plan? I think it involves taking a shot at Antonio Davis and/or Greek Freak.

franco12 wrote:Actually - as I think about this - the question really is what does the next step for our team look like.

They were in the clipper game - since Fizdale was canned and we got a real coach, we've been playing well and have just fallen short at times against really good teams.

Keep this group together, largely, add someone like VanFleet and our 2020 draft pick and have some players take next steps like Knox, Robinson, Frank and Barrett - and I think we'd legitimately (baring major injuries) have a shot at winning in the 40s - so anywhere from 40-49.

I'm trying to be objective and not rose colored glasses Nixluva like.

IMHO I think AD/Giannis both have this year and next and then will make either a 1 year commitment to same team IF everyone is healthy and they get to finals AND there is not another team to jump to long term for a max 4-5 year deal. Both would be around 28/27 (AD/G). I just don't see a path for both guys to stay on same team with a healthy long term roster (everyone else around them in current form will be on wrong side of 30 barring dramatic moves).

Realistically, AD has this year and next with LeBron (35 right now). No way LeBron lasts til 37 as a top line player and if you look at their other guys, Green would be 34, Brady 32, etc. Only young guy on team is Kuzma. I see AD as a Laker for this year and next, after that how do the Lakers build a championship team with LeBron at like $40M and AD at $35M?

Same goes for Giannis, after this year and next in Milwaukee, Bledsoe, Middleton, Lopez, Hill, etc. will be in the 30-33 range and who knows if all of them would last past that as top line players performing to today's standards. Would Greek Freak sign a 1 year deal with those guys to try one more time or move to a new team with a 4-5 year deal?

Those are the 2 guys I would hold out cap space for and build up to. Does this have to be an exclusive plan? No, but I'd make sure they were in the long term thoughts.

Knicks will have had 3 additional first round draft picks added to team going into 2022 season, 2 this upcoming draft (which sucks cause the draft is not supposed to be good). Got to nail one of them or combine and move up. And some of the young guys would have to grow for either superstar to want to join team.

Mitch, RJ, Frank, Knox, DSJr will all be 24 and younger (23 if you don't count DSJr) in 2 years. Can you believe it? In 2 years those guys are all still waaaay young. Plus 3 first rounders and maybe another with Morris trade. Knicks will also have 2 first rounders in 2023 draft (Dallas is protected 1-10).

I am actually AOK with not making playoffs this year for a shot at a better pick, got to be top 5 at least, they are #4 right now. Next year HAS to be a good playing year, playoffs are a must to show AD/Giannis that they got the goods. How good can RJ, Mitch, Knox, Frank and 2 draft picks be next year with Randle, etc.? Knicks do need a guard that can break down defense and get his own shot on a regular basis.

I'm glad Iggy is doing work in GLeague and I'm keeping an eye on Kenny Wooten as a bench guy in a mold of a smaller Mitch.

There was a weird comment by Jonathon Macari on the Knicks Film School podcast, where he said he wasn't going to say anymore, but he's fearful of the Knicks making a huge trade offer (i.e. empty all the trade assets) for Ben Simmons. I thought at the time it was a weird fear to have because it doesn't make any sense, but thinking about it he does seem to have a team source lately.

Can you think of a Simmons trade that would make sense for either the Knicks or Sixers? I can't! He can't shoot or hit free throws- how many of those do we need? Only way I can think of the Sizers being interested would be a three team or more, maybe landing CP3 from OKC.

It seems like the Knicks plan is basically to carry on accumulating picks and developing players and then trade for the first player who becomes disgruntled/moveable (be it Simmons, Towns whomever). the problem with that it there are two teams with a tonne more pick assets than us (OKC and Pelicans) who also have better young moveable players than us- we'll get easily outbid.

Agreed, I wouldn't trade for Simmons and that contract unless they threw in Embiid.

It's the year 2020 and he's a 6'10" NBA PG that has attempted 5 (five) 3 pt shots. So. Far. This. Entire. Season.
Plus, all reports are he's a 3rd degree head case. Those FT numbers look eerily alot like another Knick legend. Could you imagine paying someone with Chris Dudley's FT shooting prowess 30+ million a season?

Pass.

martin wrote:I'm glad Iggy is doing work in GLeague and I'm keeping an eye on Kenny Wooten as a bench guy in a mold of a smaller Mitch.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/nbagleague/status/1214723660394778625

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/chrisbhaynes/status/1214637115289456640

Don't do this to yourself, AD isn't leaving the Lakers and Giannis isn't leaving Milwaukee. The plan should stay with rebuilding through the draft and young players. We should trade whatever vet we can by this trade deadline and add more assets. I hate to have to trade Mook cause he's brought so much to this team and he wants to be here but lets be honest here, he's gonna take the best offer he gets this offseason no matter what cause this will be his last chance to get a 3-4 year deal from someone at his age and then will just sign one year contracts until he retires. Really love Mook and if we were a little further along in our rebuild then i'd be fine with keeping him and even giving him that 3 year deal at the right price but we're not and we can't hurt ourselves by not getting what we can for him just cause he's saying he wants to be here. We just need to make sure if we do trade him that we do it the right way and not let him leave with any bad words to say about the Knicks.

The only way i go off the rebuild plan through the draft is if something falls right for us and we're able to trade some draft picks and some young players to get our hands on two super stars. I don't see us being able to get a couple of stars to look our way in free agency until we've changed the culture in MSG and we're playing good basketball and the players are happy and we make the playoffs, so basically what the Nets were able to do but we got a little ways to go for that to happen just like the Nets went through multiple bad years before they put it together and made the playoffs last year.

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:Saw this in the VanFleet thread and had been meaning to start another similar topic.

What is the Knicks 2+ year plan? I think it involves taking a shot at Antonio Davis and/or Greek Freak.

franco12 wrote:Actually - as I think about this - the question really is what does the next step for our team look like.

They were in the clipper game - since Fizdale was canned and we got a real coach, we've been playing well and have just fallen short at times against really good teams.

Keep this group together, largely, add someone like VanFleet and our 2020 draft pick and have some players take next steps like Knox, Robinson, Frank and Barrett - and I think we'd legitimately (baring major injuries) have a shot at winning in the 40s - so anywhere from 40-49.

I'm trying to be objective and not rose colored glasses Nixluva like.

IMHO I think AD/Giannis both have this year and next and then will make either a 1 year commitment to same team IF everyone is healthy and they get to finals AND there is not another team to jump to long term for a max 4-5 year deal. Both would be around 28/27 (AD/G). I just don't see a path for both guys to stay on same team with a healthy long term roster (everyone else around them in current form will be on wrong side of 30 barring dramatic moves).

Realistically, AD has this year and next with LeBron (35 right now). No way LeBron lasts til 37 as a top line player and if you look at their other guys, Green would be 34, Brady 32, etc. Only young guy on team is Kuzma. I see AD as a Laker for this year and next, after that how do the Lakers build a championship team with LeBron at like $40M and AD at $35M?

Same goes for Giannis, after this year and next in Milwaukee, Bledsoe, Middleton, Lopez, Hill, etc. will be in the 30-33 range and who knows if all of them would last past that as top line players performing to today's standards. Would Greek Freak sign a 1 year deal with those guys to try one more time or move to a new team with a 4-5 year deal?

Those are the 2 guys I would hold out cap space for and build up to. Does this have to be an exclusive plan? No, but I'd make sure they were in the long term thoughts.

Knicks will have had 3 additional first round draft picks added to team going into 2022 season, 2 this upcoming draft (which sucks cause the draft is not supposed to be good). Got to nail one of them or combine and move up. And some of the young guys would have to grow for either superstar to want to join team.

Mitch, RJ, Frank, Knox, DSJr will all be 24 and younger (23 if you don't count DSJr) in 2 years. Can you believe it? In 2 years those guys are all still waaaay young. Plus 3 first rounders and maybe another with Morris trade. Knicks will also have 2 first rounders in 2023 draft (Dallas is protected 1-10).

I am actually AOK with not making playoffs this year for a shot at a better pick, got to be top 5 at least, they are #4 right now. Next year HAS to be a good playing year, playoffs are a must to show AD/Giannis that they got the goods. How good can RJ, Mitch, Knox, Frank and 2 draft picks be next year with Randle, etc.? Knicks do need a guard that can break down defense and get his own shot on a regular basis.

I'm glad Iggy is doing work in GLeague and I'm keeping an eye on Kenny Wooten as a bench guy in a mold of a smaller Mitch.

There was a weird comment by Jonathon Macari on the Knicks Film School podcast, where he said he wasn't going to say anymore, but he's fearful of the Knicks making a huge trade offer (i.e. empty all the trade assets) for Ben Simmons. I thought at the time it was a weird fear to have because it doesn't make any sense, but thinking about it he does seem to have a team source lately.

Can you think of a Simmons trade that would make sense for either the Knicks or Sixers? I can't! He can't shoot or hit free throws- how many of those do we need? Only way I can think of the Sizers being interested would be a three team or more, maybe landing CP3 from OKC.

It seems like the Knicks plan is basically to carry on accumulating picks and developing players and then trade for the first player who becomes disgruntled/moveable (be it Simmons, Towns whomever). the problem with that it there are two teams with a tonne more pick assets than us (OKC and Pelicans) who also have better young moveable players than us- we'll get easily outbid.

Agreed, I wouldn't trade for Simmons and that contract unless they threw in Embiid.

It's the year 2020 and he's a 6'10" NBA PG that has attempted 5 (five) 3 pt shots. So. Far. This. Entire. Season.
Plus, all reports are he's a 3rd degree head case. Those FT numbers look eerily alot like another Knick legend. Could you imagine paying someone with Chris Dudley's FT shooting prowess 30+ million a season?

Pass.

Imagine if the Suns and Nets said the same things about Jason. Here are the plusses: easily alleviates any playmaking issues the team has, can guard nearly every position on the court and can be plugged nearly everywhere. It's definitely a deal to consider.

And exactly how does someone without a jump shot get plugged in nearly everywhere? What defines "nearly" in your world? Embiid (not exactly an NBA-level rocket scientist) is busy trying to drive the kid out of Philly because it's like playing 4 on 5 on offense. Not exactly difficult for the opposition to figure out how to beat that come playoff time.

Not disagreeing Simmons has tremendous upside, on some other team, but certainly not for this franchise at this time. And not at that price.

The Knicks are an old irrelevant brand. Every elite UFA laughed at the possibility of coming here. If our plan is anything but developing guys and taking advantage of any UFAs that want to be here I will have no faith in the operation. Especially because this is EXACTLY what the Rangers are doing. They identified a coach that could developing young talent, over the offseason signed the single best player available in free agency, and before all that sent a letter to the fans saying they needed to shed old faces to feed the pipeline for the future. So, the Rangers signed him, have a bunch of promising talent they are developing, and are three games out of a playoff spot - which is ahead of schedule and I am more than happy with the team. If the Knicks fan is to throw money around and be a contender within two years, well, it is gonna fail spectacularly.