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Knicks canned Kareem
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fishmike
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10/1/2004  10:20 AM
Notes: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is no longer with the Knicks. He was relieved of his limited coaching and scouting duties shortly after summer league for unspecified reasons. The Hall of Famer was brought on last spring, but team sources indicate he failed to make a noticeable contribution. ... Jack Nolan has been hired to handle advance scouting duties. ... The community-relations post vacated by Willis Reed is expected to be shared by John Starks and Earl Monroe. The official announcement will come in the next month.

Interesting... I had read that Nazr was making progress with him. Oh well... one thing I like about Isiah is he wont live with a mistake out of pride. If somethings not working, you change it and move on. Islesfan will just love this

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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gunsnewing
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10/1/2004  10:26 AM
I hear you man. I can't even begin to express how great a feeling that it. complete opposite of Layden.
Nalod
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10/1/2004  10:26 AM
Thanks, I asked that question the other day as he did not mentions him in a comment.

Kareem has never received the love from the league or the respect he thought he deserved when he wanted to get into coaching. His bouts with depression is well known, but he polarized himself for many years and I think many are not very forgiving.

Too bad it did not work out for him, and the team.
Marv
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10/1/2004  10:34 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Thanks, I asked that question the other day as he did not mentions him in a comment.

Kareem has never received the love from the league or the respect he thought he deserved when he wanted to get into coaching. His bouts with depression is well known, but he polarized himself for many years and I think many are not very forgiving.

Too bad it did not work out for him, and the team.

Kareem is such an interesting guy. But doesn't it seem now that he's getting the chances but he's still doing something in the present tense that's alientating people?
fishmike
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10/1/2004  10:47 AM
There's a few issues w/ Kareem. He did alienate a lot of people and the thought was he was blacklisted for front office jobs around the NBA or in coaching. There is another issue however, up until VERY recently (this year) Kareem was an admitted cronic pot smoker. Supposedly the story is it was his only way to cope with cronic migranes. Be that as it may the guy was high everyday. When your looking at former players t mentor your young stars your building your franchise around thats a pretty big thing to overlook.

I'm sure Isiah gave him a low risk shot. If they guy develops some chemistry w/ Nazr or anyone else great. If your not getting anything you move on. Looks like thats what happened.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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10/1/2004  1:14 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Notes: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is no longer with the Knicks. He was relieved of his limited coaching and scouting duties shortly after summer league for unspecified reasons. The Hall of Famer was brought on last spring, but team sources indicate he failed to make a noticeable contribution. ... Jack Nolan has been hired to handle advance scouting duties. ... The community-relations post vacated by Willis Reed is expected to be shared by John Starks and Earl Monroe. The official announcement will come in the next month.

Interesting... I had read that Nazr was making progress with him. Oh well... one thing I like about Isiah is he wont live with a mistake out of pride. If somethings not working, you change it and move on. Islesfan will just love this

That is pretty funny considering our conversation yesterday. I don't know if this was a preemptive post but I give you a lot of credit for posting it. I hope you found it amusing as well.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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10/1/2004  1:25 PM
Look.. I know you think I chug the Isiah kool aid. I do like the players he's brought in so far. I'm luke warm on Lenny and Isiah's overall performance gets a big wait and see from me so far. I do like the direction of the team (younger, more skilled, more athletic).

I also think its a good sign if he makes a mistake (granted Kareem's impact as a mistake is small) he's not going to stick with it out of pride alone.

The bottom line is how the team does is on ISiah. If guys like Nazr, Sweetney, Crawford, Ariza.. dont improve I blame Isiah. If they dont fit its his job to find better players that do. This is a big year for him, because this whole group is one he put together. May the real judgements start :)
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Kwazimodal
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10/1/2004  1:30 PM
His faults aside,I would have liked the Knicks to keep him on as just a trainer and not a scout but I doubt kareem would have gone for it.Too bad,Kiki started out as a trainer and worked his way up to Nuggets GM so it is possible to advance from that postion.
islesfan
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10/1/2004  1:39 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Look.. I know you think I chug the Isiah kool aid. I do like the players he's brought in so far. I'm luke warm on Lenny and Isiah's overall performance gets a big wait and see from me so far. I do like the direction of the team (younger, more skilled, more athletic).

I also think its a good sign if he makes a mistake (granted Kareem's impact as a mistake is small) he's not going to stick with it out of pride alone.

The bottom line is how the team does is on ISiah. If guys like Nazr, Sweetney, Crawford, Ariza.. dont improve I blame Isiah. If they dont fit its his job to find better players that do. This is a big year for him, because this whole group is one he put together. May the real judgements start :)

To be fair, I think you chug a lot less of that stuff than others around here who shall remain nameless. I also think that we agree a lot more than we disagree but what's the fun in that?

The Kareem thing is a non issue. Including our conversation I don't think it means much, other than Kareem has no future in the NBA when it comes to coaching or being an executive. When it comes to Isiah's role in it, I wouldn't suggest that it was meaningful one way or the other.

You're right, the honeymoon is over this year. As much as Isiah doesn't want to be judged for another 2-3 years, this is a team that he's put together and he can't use the Layden excuse as much as he would love to and probably will if things don't go well. Either way this should be a fun and interesting season.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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10/1/2004  2:03 PM
now.. I know we (at least slightly disagree) on what Isiah payed to get them, but what do you think of Marbury, Crawford, TT, Sweetney (I inserted him as the starter on wishfull thinking) and Nazr as a unit?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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10/1/2004  2:46 PM
isles...fish....when did these boards turn into an episode of barney?

knicks win 45-47 games
knicks win the division
knicks advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs

those are the milestones i'm putting on the team for this season...
Bonn1997
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10/1/2004  3:42 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Look.. I know you think I chug the Isiah kool aid. I do like the players he's brought in so far. I'm luke warm on Lenny and Isiah's overall performance gets a big wait and see from me so far. I do like the direction of the team (younger, more skilled, more athletic).

I also think its a good sign if he makes a mistake (granted Kareem's impact as a mistake is small) he's not going to stick with it out of pride alone.

The bottom line is how the team does is on ISiah. If guys like Nazr, Sweetney, Crawford, Ariza.. dont improve I blame Isiah. If they dont fit its his job to find better players that do. This is a big year for him, because this whole group is one he put together. May the real judgements start :)
That's my view too. I like what Isiah has done so far, but of course we have to wait and see before giving him a final grade. If the moves don't work out, he gets a bad grade. The moves he's made make sense, though, because he's made the team more talented, younger, and more athletic like Fish said. I've never been very impressed with Lenny. I thought he was an improvement from Chaney, but I never thought he was an elite coach at the level of Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, etc.
TheloniusMonk
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10/1/2004  4:17 PM
Personally, I think he wanted to bring back respectability to the coaching position in the Garden. We've had JVG, Riley, Brown and Don Nelson (even though that didn't work out). Although I don't think it was Chaney's fault that the Knick roster ended up in the shape it was in, we had a situation where our coach was being booed. Our GM was being booed for God's sake. FI-RE LAY-DEN....FI-RE CHA-NEY!!! So why not follow that up with a guy who holds the title of "most winningest coach"? Although we know that's just a title. I think Lenny's title should be "most coachingest coach" sense that's the only thing he's done....COACHED MORE GAMES THAN ANY OTHER COACH IN HISTORY. I think that fits better sense he's the loosingest coach too lol. I believe that at the end of this season or next that job will be completed. The coaching postion will at least be talked about (from analysts, players etc.) with a much hire content of respect than Chaney.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Allanfan20
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10/1/2004  4:23 PM
I don't think Isiah deserves to be criticized if Jamal Crawford doesn't learn to play defense and play team basketball. That either goes entirely on Jamal, or the coaching staff.

Also, it appears that Sweetney and Nazr are headed into the season with rather high expectations. I still don't have tremendous expectations for either one, and just wanna see them play solid basketball. If Sweetney still needs more time to develop, particularly his confidence and overall mentality (Same with Nazr) and this hurts the team, I don't think you can blame that on Isiah. I think he's done a fine job so far, and took a nice little gamble on working with these young players, particularly Crawford, and it should work out in the long run, and could very well hurt in the short term. We'll see.

I doagree though, that I reserve judgement. If things don't go well at all, and all Isiah does is defend his ego, then I will start killing Isiah.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
islesfan
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10/1/2004  4:30 PM
Posted by fishmike:

now.. I know we (at least slightly disagree) on what Isiah payed to get them, but what do you think of Marbury, Crawford, TT, Sweetney (I inserted him as the starter on wishfull thinking) and Nazr as a unit?

Offensively they could score some points. But that's assuming one ball is enough for Marbury, Crawford and TT. It also assumes that Crawford can play within a structured offense without the ball. That's a huge if considering he couldn't stay within the system in Chicago and just shot whenever he felt like it which was often. TT has to get his head out of his ass and stay focused out there instead of disappearing for long periods of time.

Sweetney and Nazr are the 2 best options in the frontcourt because they need somebody who can rebound. Sweetney is their best rebounder and Nazr is the best out of a poor center contingent. The fact that Sweetney isn't very consistent with his jumper and Nazr couldn't hit one if his life depended on it, could be a problem since the other teams center and PF wouldn't have to come out to play them so the lane would be clogged for would be penetrators. If they played KT out of position at the C spot, I wouldn't mind that since he has more of an offensive game than Nazr but with the 3 scorers out there already it might not matter.

Defensively that's a pretty awful unit. Pretty scary actually. They better be good offensively because they aren't going to stop anybody on defense.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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10/1/2004  4:35 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

I don't think Isiah deserves to be criticized if Jamal Crawford doesn't learn to play defense and play team basketball. That either goes entirely on Jamal, or the coaching staff.

You're kidding right? Isiah doesn't deserve to be criticized if his big offseason acquisition doesn't learn to play defense and play team basketball? If Isiah's job is to build a winner and his big acquisition doesn't become adept at anything that helps a team become a winner then how is that not on Isiah?


If things don't go well at all, and all Isiah does is defend his ego, then I will start killing Isiah.

Get in line. It starts right behind me.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Nalod
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10/1/2004  4:55 PM
DRINK THE KOOL AID.

DRINK THE KOOL AID.

COME, DRINK, COME JOIN US!

DRINK THE KOOL AID. ITS EASIER IF YOU DO, WHY FIGHT IT?

JOIN US, DRINK, IT IS GOOD. WHY FIGHT? YOU ARE GETTING TIRED.

DRINK THE KOOLAID, YOU WON'T REMEMBER FATSPOON, EISLEY, AND YOU'LL STOP LOOKING FOR THE GOOD IN SHANDON. DRINK, ITS EASIER.

YOU'LL TRADE FRANKWILLIAMS, AND THROW IN A PROTECTED FIRST ROUND. YOU'LL HATE LAYDEN, HATE DOLAN, LOOSE ANY DESIRE TO HAVE WHITE PLAYERS, JUST THE TOKEN EURO. YOU'LL NOT SEE THE MONGOLIAN. DRINK, YOU'LL FEEL LOVED BY ALL, HIS HIGH ISIAH WILL SMILE UPON YOU.

DRINK, MARV ALBERT WAS THE ENEMY.

DRINK, YOU'LL SEE AZIRA AND SWEETS GET BETTER EACH DAY IN THE OFF SEASON, AND SHANDON GETS WORSE. H20 IS NEVER EVER EVER GOING TO COME BACK, AND CRAW IS THE MAN.

DRINK, IT VERY NICE.

THE MOTHER SHIP COMES SOON! NO CAP TAX. LAYDEN IS GONE, ITS FEELS NICE. DRINK UP.
islesfan
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10/1/2004  4:59 PM
LOL I don't need Kool-Aid to hate most of what Layden did here or especially that idiot Dolan. I think I'll stick to my Hatorade though.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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10/1/2004  5:00 PM
STOP THE PRESSES

I agree w/ Isles. Crawford is Isiah's responsibility. He gave a long deal to player based more on his potential then his current status in the NBA (only guy who can score on the worst team in the NBA).

That being said its the big picture. Every GM makes mistakes. The good ones learn to fix their mistakes, the bad ones live with them because they think they should. Isiah did give up a fair amount because I KNOW that Othella, Deke and TSki will have good value come trading deadline... expiring deals always do.

You cant predict chemistry, but you can put players together that fit a style. Isiah has done that by assembling a more athletic faster team. Lots of skill and speed and some nice parts that match.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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10/1/2004  5:20 PM
It seems as though IT wants players and coach's who were from the tri state area. I'm not sure you guy's have notice this, but he's always talking about bring NY breed players back in the garden.

As dumb as that Wally trade seems, I would not be surprise if he's here before the dead line.

It's reallly unfortunate at whats happening to kareem, but that life.

I praying that IT can bring Ewing in some how, I think it's a crying shame that he is not affiliated in some capacity with the organazation, after all he has done for them.
ES
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