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Credit for the turnaround
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Sambakick
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We are 3-3 in our last 6 games.
One of those losses was by a point.
After getting regularly blown out for weeks the team is definitely on an upswing.
But who gets the credit?

Lots of things happened
- a players-only meeting
- a coach got fired
- an assistant coach got promoted
- the schedule got a little easier
- Payton got healthy
- the team finally jelled
- etc.

Some are crediting Miller, but how much credit does Miller actually deserve vs the other factors above?

100% of credit to Miller
90% of credit to Miller/10% other factors
80% of credit to Miller/20% other factors
70% of credit to Miller/30% other factors
60% of credit to Miller/40% other factors
50% of credit to Miller/50% other factors
40% of credit to Miller/60% other factors
30% of credit to Miller/70% other factors
20% of credit to Miller/80% other factors
10% of credit to Miller/90% other factors
0% of credit to Miller
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Nalod
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12/20/2019  12:16 PM
If FO gets part of the blame, then they should get part of the Credit?

6 games is a small sample but it feels better and certainly more entertaining than what was. What is not known was while Bud wanted to coach knicks what was his demands if any that was not acceptable at that time?

Fiz never go the chance to coach KP. We'll never know if they would have gotten along. Fiz was to perhaps help recruit star FA's? That did not happen. Fiz was over his head with what he had. Lot of blame to go around from the FO, the players, and the coach. I'd say credit gets returned. I'll give MIller a lot of credit, the players for executing and the FO for making a relatively quick decision on taking out Fiz with years left on his contract. Im not having a parade for anyone yet!!LOL
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nychamp
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12/20/2019  12:17 PM
Why do you tirelessly defend the front office so much? Makes no sense.
70/30 Miller. The 30 is the return of Payton. Broad strokes take. Fizdale was atrocious, obv.
Nalod
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12/20/2019  12:33 PM
nychamp wrote:Why do you tirelessly defend the front office so much? Makes no sense.
70/30 Miller. The 30 is the return of Payton. Broad strokes take. Fizdale was atrocious, obv.

Im not. I see change from one regime to another. Mills is doing things different than previous. Can't change the past nor buy anothers success.
I have seen exec's and coach's bring reputations but not implement what they did to get there. I don't see Mills as responsible for the Phil era even if was an executive. I think he tried to mend the fence with KP. Fiz was sent to visit him in Latvia. I dont' think giving him max money until he was healed was unreasonable and we had 10mil more to spend by waiting. Again, reasonable. I did not celebrate the trade. I call it "regrettable". Takes two to tango or divorce.
I gave Miller 60% credit. Most of the rest goes to the players. Payton returning and others adapting quickly. FO/Dolan ate a big contract to admit a mistake. They get credit for that.
The moment they did that ownership should set goals and define how they keep there jobs going forward. They might but we won't know.
Knixkik
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12/20/2019  3:10 PM
nychamp wrote:Why do you tirelessly defend the front office so much? Makes no sense.
70/30 Miller. The 30 is the return of Payton. Broad strokes take. Fizdale was atrocious, obv.

Yeah i think this is pretty accurate. I voted the same.
Marv
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12/20/2019  4:09 PM
easiest question ever. 100% miller time.
franco12
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12/20/2019  4:25 PM
I gave Miller 70% - he definitely has changed the approach to the team. Maybe Fizdale would be great with the Lakers or some other team of stars.

But we have a young team, and the veterans we haven aren't such tremendous talents that they can just figure stuff out on their own.
NYKBocker
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12/20/2019  8:02 PM
Marv wrote:easiest question ever. 100% miller time.
I agree. This was the same exact roster that Fizdale had. Dude ain't a coach for developing or implementing a system. He looks like a coach that will do well with an established roster that needs to be managed more than coached.
toodarkmark
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12/21/2019  6:51 AM
Beating the two worst teams and barely beating a team with a losing record is a "turn around"?

Its a honeymoon period. They're already back to being blown out.

I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
Knixkik
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12/21/2019  7:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/21/2019  7:51 AM
toodarkmark wrote:Beating the two worst teams and barely beating a team with a losing record is a "turn around"?

Its a honeymoon period. They're already back to being blown out.

Beating the bad teams and losing to the good teams is what you should expect with this knicks team. What more did you expect? We blew out a bad team and got blown out by a very good team.
Nalod
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12/21/2019  9:17 AM
KP on one end, blown out by a good team on another. Not a good night for Knick fans.
JImmy butler came out and gave up shots to get the ball moving. This does not happen over night.
TO be fair, Miami does bad contracts and suffers. They also been developing players for years and years. Bam took a few years to get there and Whiteside was a huge mistake for them at that price. Its not like the Heat have been all that great, but they have been better than us!!!!!
KP is shining now. It hurts. It was so much easier before he started playing.
CrushAlot
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12/21/2019  11:52 AM
Nalod wrote:KP on one end, blown out by a good team on another. Not a good night for Knick fans.
JImmy butler came out and gave up shots to get the ball moving. This does not happen over night.
TO be fair, Miami does bad contracts and suffers. They also been developing players for years and years. Bam took a few years to get there and Whiteside was a huge mistake for them at that price. Its not like the Heat have been all that great, but they have been better than us!!!!!
KP is shining now. It hurts. It was so much easier before he started playing.

Spo may have been a bit extra motivated for this game after Fiz got fired.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Marv
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12/21/2019  7:49 PM
Knixkik wrote:
toodarkmark wrote:Beating the two worst teams and barely beating a team with a losing record is a "turn around"?

Its a honeymoon period. They're already back to being blown out.

Beating the bad teams and losing to the good teams is what you should expect with this knicks team. What more did you expect? We blew out a bad team and got blown out by a very good team.

excellent post. moving from a 17-win team to a .500 team is superlative management. it means u beat the majority of sh**ty teams and lose to the majority of good teams. it doesn’t mean u go 4-18. welcome aboard mr. miller.
arkrud
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12/22/2019  9:25 PM
Miller looks like good coach with great potential in NBA.
Is MSG ready to have no-nonsense low-profile coach is to be seen.
There is no turnaround. But now Knicks will probably win more games playing with bad teams.
We do not have what it takes to win against teams with a supper-star and solid support cast or multiple superstars teams.
This leaved 8-10 team we can compete against and possibility of 20-25 wins...
Hopefully Mike will stick around. He and us deserve some unexpected good things to happen.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Sambakick
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12/26/2019  10:04 PM
4-18 under Fidale with no end to the losing in sight
4-6 under Miller with hope for a new year

Thanks Coach

Everything in moderation. Even moderation.
arkrud
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12/27/2019  12:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2019  12:27 AM
Sambakick wrote:4-18 under Fidale with no end to the losing in sight
4-6 under Miller with hope for a new year

Thanks Coach

It is not about the number of wins but about expectations.
Team have to be low key hard working learning bunch.
Learn to maintain the effort for 48 minutes and be smart and humble.
Fiz was not made for this grained. Everything has it's place and time.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Ira
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12/27/2019  7:16 AM
It's nice to have a competent coach.
JesseDark
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12/27/2019  12:05 PM
Ira wrote:It's nice to have a competent coach.

Yep, this is really making Fiz look bad. Fiz relied to heavily on the idea that it was ok to just throw out the balls and see what happens until the two superstars get here. Once we started looking for overall team improvement his coaching did not improve.

Bring back dee-fense
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Credit for the turnaround
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