MS wrote:I just don’t think it was as bad as reported. A lot of it was fluff.

If the Knicks were half way intelligent they would have at least promised the world to maintain the asset and if it was real not salvageable the would have moved it in the offseason.

All I was saying is Hardaway was on the table for Wes Matthews.

You’re telling me if we needed to move lee we couldn’t have offered a rebuilding team Lee with Frank and Knox? There is always time to do a deal. Remember when we couldn’t move Zach Randolph and then he became an All Star? When Jamal Crawford wasn’t moveable he went on to get multiple contracts and win the sixth man of the year? Smith couldn’t be moved at 6.5MM then signs for 15MM? We seem to never be able to move anyone and then a team trades Timothy Mosgov to the Cavs for two first round picks. Obviously this is what we already know, our front office is trash and full of ****. No matter what regime someone is always lying and we somehow lose every trade.

KP should be here. Period.

KP didnt want to be here. Made it clear. He couldnt last a season, was out hurt often. Was criticizing the team even though he had been out hurt since the year before. I cant blame you.for questioning what we got back. I dont question the need to move a player who was hurt, and wanted to be moved. Complaining about the direction of the team from the bench, was too Diva for me.

MS wrote:I just don’t think it was as bad as reported. A lot of it was fluff.

If the Knicks were half way intelligent they would have at least promised the world to maintain the asset and if it was real not salvageable the would have moved it in the offseason.

All I was saying is Hardaway was on the table for Wes Matthews.

You’re telling me if we needed to move lee we couldn’t have offered a rebuilding team Lee with Frank and Knox? There is always time to do a deal. Remember when we couldn’t move Zach Randolph and then he became an All Star? When Jamal Crawford wasn’t moveable he went on to get multiple contracts and win the sixth man of the year? Smith couldn’t be moved at 6.5MM then signs for 15MM? We seem to never be able to move anyone and then a team trades Timothy Mosgov to the Cavs for two first round picks. Obviously this is what we already know, our front office is trash and full of ****. No matter what regime someone is always lying and we somehow lose every trade.

KP should be here. Period.

Neither of us know what transpired and what was given. When Melo was gone he was the featured star. The squabbles over his trainer and being on the plane? At some point there was reality, a professional norm, and maybe over the top requests. I don't know.
Frank and Knox to move Clees deal?
BTW, didn't we get Matthews in the trade? We released him?
Zach was awful here. At that moment he looked like a guy on his way out. He turned it around. Crawford was traded to GS for Al Harrington basically for Salary cap. This was post Isiah Donnie. Lets clarify, this was Dolan directing Donnie to make a run for what was Joe Johnson, Lebron, bosh and Wade. All Free the next year. WE get Amare. Before you go off on Donnie remember your history, DOnnie was about forced on Dolan and he did little but what his owner told him to do.
But in the end your right, its "Knicks" and the results tell the story. But if your in a tizz and forget the timeline and how things played out at the moment it really does look even more moronic. It is, but there were logic applied. I think you short change not "Mills" or whom ever but the moment and what was on the table at that time. Does it suck less? Maybe understanding does just a bit.

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:I just don’t think it was as bad as reported. A lot of it was fluff.

If the Knicks were half way intelligent they would have at least promised the world to maintain the asset and if it was real not salvageable the would have moved it in the offseason.

All I was saying is Hardaway was on the table for Wes Matthews.

You’re telling me if we needed to move lee we couldn’t have offered a rebuilding team Lee with Frank and Knox? There is always time to do a deal. Remember when we couldn’t move Zach Randolph and then he became an All Star? When Jamal Crawford wasn’t moveable he went on to get multiple contracts and win the sixth man of the year? Smith couldn’t be moved at 6.5MM then signs for 15MM? We seem to never be able to move anyone and then a team trades Timothy Mosgov to the Cavs for two first round picks. Obviously this is what we already know, our front office is trash and full of ****. No matter what regime someone is always lying and we somehow lose every trade.

KP should be here. Period.

KP didnt want to be here. Made it clear. He couldnt last a season, was out hurt often. Was criticizing the team even though he had been out hurt since the year before. I cant blame you.for questioning what we got back. I dont question the need to move a player who was hurt, and wanted to be moved. Complaining about the direction of the team from the bench, was too Diva for me.

Can you post who articles stating who was stating that KP was complaining about the team publicly and ones where he made it clear? ? And are you saying that no one should have been complaining about what we saw the last three years? This whole narrative that no one should complain about how ****ty an organization is or how bad the team is ridiculous. Do we really want players(Non divas) that are happy with this much losing and FO ineptitude? Think those players are the ones that are here for the wrong reasons and just making a pit stop. Think KP was right in not allowing the FO to continue to make countless mistakes and run the team to the ground. Isn't that what we want out of our FRANCHISE player?

Btw, love how so many claim rumors and fan speculation as fact. The fact is that the Knicks did not extend KP when they had the chance due to his injury. They calculated that KP would never be the same and was not worth the risk. Seems like they were wrong. They did KP a favor and he moved on. Now we are left with Smith Jr., who has been run through our great developmental training program and has of course been brought to a complete halt. We also cleared up a lot of cap space. Which was used mostly on back up role players and we have also added a couple more power ball tickets so that fans can rave about yet another Baker/Frank cream job who everyone besides Knick fans see as bench role players at best.

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:I just don’t think it was as bad as reported. A lot of it was fluff.

If the Knicks were half way intelligent they would have at least promised the world to maintain the asset and if it was real not salvageable the would have moved it in the offseason.

All I was saying is Hardaway was on the table for Wes Matthews.

You’re telling me if we needed to move lee we couldn’t have offered a rebuilding team Lee with Frank and Knox? There is always time to do a deal. Remember when we couldn’t move Zach Randolph and then he became an All Star? When Jamal Crawford wasn’t moveable he went on to get multiple contracts and win the sixth man of the year? Smith couldn’t be moved at 6.5MM then signs for 15MM? We seem to never be able to move anyone and then a team trades Timothy Mosgov to the Cavs for two first round picks. Obviously this is what we already know, our front office is trash and full of ****. No matter what regime someone is always lying and we somehow lose every trade.

KP should be here. Period.

KP didnt want to be here. Made it clear. He couldnt last a season, was out hurt often. Was criticizing the team even though he had been out hurt since the year before. I cant blame you.for questioning what we got back. I dont question the need to move a player who was hurt, and wanted to be moved. Complaining about the direction of the team from the bench, was too Diva for me.

Can you post who articles stating who was stating that KP was complaining about the team publicly and ones where he made it clear? ? And are you saying that no one should have been complaining about what we saw the last three years? This whole narrative that no one should complain about how ****ty an organization is or how bad the team is ridiculous. Do we really want players(Non divas) that are happy with this much losing and FO ineptitude? Think those players are the ones that are here for the wrong reasons and just making a pit stop. Think KP was right in not allowing the FO to continue to make countless mistakes and run the team to the ground. Isn't that what we want out of our FRANCHISE player?

Btw, love how so many claim rumors and fan speculation as fact. The fact is that the Knicks did not extend KP when they had the chance due to his injury. They calculated that KP would never be the same and was not worth the risk. Seems like they were wrong. They did KP a favor and he moved on. Now we are left with Smith Jr., who has been run through our great developmental training program and has of course been brought to a complete halt. We also cleared up a lot of cap space. Which was used mostly on back up role players and we have also added a couple more power ball tickets so that fans can rave about yet another Baker/Frank cream job who everyone besides Knick fans see as bench role players at best.

Hell no, but you're more than welcome to do your own looking. If you are out for a season, have trouble lasting a season, arent doing anything to help the team's fortunes. You're hurt and sitting on the bench, and backseat driving the franchise. You're being a Diva.

KP hadnt done enough in this league to have that kind of say. If he was playing, doing his part, and the team was falling short, then he has a right to question the direction of the team. Not from the bench.

It's a free country.
You can lead horses to the water but cannot make them drink.
KP has something missing about him. Some grace that makes the star a star.
May be he will get it one day but it has nothing to do with us any more.
We should just let it go and look at the other things coming our way.

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:I just don’t think it was as bad as reported. A lot of it was fluff.

If the Knicks were half way intelligent they would have at least promised the world to maintain the asset and if it was real not salvageable the would have moved it in the offseason.

All I was saying is Hardaway was on the table for Wes Matthews.

You’re telling me if we needed to move lee we couldn’t have offered a rebuilding team Lee with Frank and Knox? There is always time to do a deal. Remember when we couldn’t move Zach Randolph and then he became an All Star? When Jamal Crawford wasn’t moveable he went on to get multiple contracts and win the sixth man of the year? Smith couldn’t be moved at 6.5MM then signs for 15MM? We seem to never be able to move anyone and then a team trades Timothy Mosgov to the Cavs for two first round picks. Obviously this is what we already know, our front office is trash and full of ****. No matter what regime someone is always lying and we somehow lose every trade.

KP should be here. Period.

KP didnt want to be here. Made it clear. He couldnt last a season, was out hurt often. Was criticizing the team even though he had been out hurt since the year before. I cant blame you.for questioning what we got back. I dont question the need to move a player who was hurt, and wanted to be moved. Complaining about the direction of the team from the bench, was too Diva for me.

Can you post who articles stating who was stating that KP was complaining about the team publicly and ones where he made it clear? ? And are you saying that no one should have been complaining about what we saw the last three years? This whole narrative that no one should complain about how ****ty an organization is or how bad the team is ridiculous. Do we really want players(Non divas) that are happy with this much losing and FO ineptitude? Think those players are the ones that are here for the wrong reasons and just making a pit stop. Think KP was right in not allowing the FO to continue to make countless mistakes and run the team to the ground. Isn't that what we want out of our FRANCHISE player?

Btw, love how so many claim rumors and fan speculation as fact. The fact is that the Knicks did not extend KP when they had the chance due to his injury. They calculated that KP would never be the same and was not worth the risk. Seems like they were wrong. They did KP a favor and he moved on. Now we are left with Smith Jr., who has been run through our great developmental training program and has of course been brought to a complete halt. We also cleared up a lot of cap space. Which was used mostly on back up role players and we have also added a couple more power ball tickets so that fans can rave about yet another Baker/Frank cream job who everyone besides Knick fans see as bench role players at best.

Hell no, but you're more than welcome to do your own looking. If you are out for a season, have trouble lasting a season, arent doing anything to help the team's fortunes. You're hurt and sitting on the bench, and backseat driving the franchise. You're being a Diva.

KP hadnt done enough in this league to have that kind of say. If he was playing, doing his part, and the team was falling short, then he has a right to question the direction of the team. Not from the bench.

Did"t think so. Like i have said many times before, the ones that prefer to keep their heads in the sand prefer to hate and blame the "other" guy. No matter how many of them are saying the same thing. Yet they ignore all the things this organization has done to **** things up in the last 20 years. KP was just another one. But hey, denial followed by hate is part of recovery.

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:I just don’t think it was as bad as reported. A lot of it was fluff.

If the Knicks were half way intelligent they would have at least promised the world to maintain the asset and if it was real not salvageable the would have moved it in the offseason.

All I was saying is Hardaway was on the table for Wes Matthews.

You’re telling me if we needed to move lee we couldn’t have offered a rebuilding team Lee with Frank and Knox? There is always time to do a deal. Remember when we couldn’t move Zach Randolph and then he became an All Star? When Jamal Crawford wasn’t moveable he went on to get multiple contracts and win the sixth man of the year? Smith couldn’t be moved at 6.5MM then signs for 15MM? We seem to never be able to move anyone and then a team trades Timothy Mosgov to the Cavs for two first round picks. Obviously this is what we already know, our front office is trash and full of ****. No matter what regime someone is always lying and we somehow lose every trade.

KP should be here. Period.

KP didnt want to be here. Made it clear. He couldnt last a season, was out hurt often. Was criticizing the team even though he had been out hurt since the year before. I cant blame you.for questioning what we got back. I dont question the need to move a player who was hurt, and wanted to be moved. Complaining about the direction of the team from the bench, was too Diva for me.

Can you post who articles stating who was stating that KP was complaining about the team publicly and ones where he made it clear? ? And are you saying that no one should have been complaining about what we saw the last three years? This whole narrative that no one should complain about how ****ty an organization is or how bad the team is ridiculous. Do we really want players(Non divas) that are happy with this much losing and FO ineptitude? Think those players are the ones that are here for the wrong reasons and just making a pit stop. Think KP was right in not allowing the FO to continue to make countless mistakes and run the team to the ground. Isn't that what we want out of our FRANCHISE player?

Btw, love how so many claim rumors and fan speculation as fact. The fact is that the Knicks did not extend KP when they had the chance due to his injury. They calculated that KP would never be the same and was not worth the risk. Seems like they were wrong. They did KP a favor and he moved on. Now we are left with Smith Jr., who has been run through our great developmental training program and has of course been brought to a complete halt. We also cleared up a lot of cap space. Which was used mostly on back up role players and we have also added a couple more power ball tickets so that fans can rave about yet another Baker/Frank cream job who everyone besides Knick fans see as bench role players at best.

Hell no, but you're more than welcome to do your own looking. If you are out for a season, have trouble lasting a season, arent doing anything to help the team's fortunes. You're hurt and sitting on the bench, and backseat driving the franchise. You're being a Diva.

KP hadnt done enough in this league to have that kind of say. If he was playing, doing his part, and the team was falling short, then he has a right to question the direction of the team. Not from the bench.

Did"t think so. Like i have said many times before, the ones that prefer to keep their heads in the sand prefer to hate and blame the "other" guy. No matter how many of them are saying the same thing. Yet they ignore all the things this organization has done to **** things up in the last 20 years. KP was just another one. But hey, denial followed by hate is part of recovery.

You start spouting off, and tell me to waste my time searching for articles for you? Sounds like you need help, not me. What part of KP being out for a year did you miss? WTF was he doing to help the team? KP was complaining about what was being done to win. You know who was doing less than anyone in the organization to win at the time? KP, because he hadnt played all season

His contribution was whining from the bench. Post articles that prove that KP was complaining about the franchise, while he was out for the season? Dont have to prove anything. KP got himself traded before the end of the season. Didnt march into the front office with his brother and tell.them how happy they were to be in NY.

Of course KP was backseat driving the franchise from the bench. You think KP whining about the team in street clothes, not having played all season, is leadership? You lead by doing, not whining. Might be your idea of leadership, not mine.

Didnt ask you to do anything besides back your claims. You can't.
But you dont get it, you keep saying thinsg that you dont really know happened or that anyone has confirmed. As most fan takes its just based on repeating things until they become true,
Okay, lets Assume your insight not facts are true. So you prefer players that just sit there and accept losing. You dont want your franchise player to be mad about constant dysfunction, a carousel of coaches and new systems, and letting a clueless management team dictate his development and NBA future? WTF would put up with that? Fans kill me. They want their players to take league minimum, play hurt, and keep their mouth shut. I dont know how long you have been watching the NBA but not too many of those players exist.

We can Keep going back and forth. AGAIN...this is less about KP and more about Fans whinning/hating a player yet missing the obvious constant problem. We jave sucked for 18 out of the last 20 years. And there is only one constant. I believe the reason we SUCK is because our FO is not being led by NBA professionals. Its a bunch of short sighted whinning babies with Dolan as their poster child. Characteristics typical of most irrational fans but should not be ones of successful mature NBA executives. You also fail to see my point that it was not one event that screwed things up with KP but a series of dysfunctional shortcomings that the Knicks are masters at. You rather keep acting like KP was not the best player we have drafted since Ewing. You can keep saying he was the biggest Diva we have ever had. You can keep saying he will break down and suck. If that makes you feel better cool. We both know the problem is that it is not true and he is no longer here. But okay, no big deal. Lets move on. The problem with doing so is that the guys that really ****ed things up and have ****ed things up for many years are still here. Until that changes, we will SUCK.

smackeddog wrote:Can't help but wonder if/when KP will start grumbling about his role on the team- he dropped in a mild dig about not getting as many touches a few weeks ago. Had a bit of a scoring boost with Doncic out, now Doncic is back his numbers are poor again. I suspect regardless of winning, his ego will ultimately flare up if Doncic is hogging all the limelight and ball.