Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Mudiay had no problem because he was playing for a contract. Frank is playing a system his coach wants. I don’t know if you guys have noticed this but he is expending a lot of energy in the defensive side of the ball. Honestly at time you see that he may be the only guy playing off the ball defense maybe you could put Dotson in that category.

I noticed one thing about Frank when he is tired he tends to elevate and bend his knees when shooting. Instead of keep his body vertical. Frank needs to shoot more it’s very true but how many times do you see a play being called and Frank has to sit in the corner and you know they are not going to give him the ball. All the action is happening at the top of the key. There are no angles very rarely any cutters. I might have seen two or three cuts. Portis to Dotson, Knox to Gibson and Barrett to Randle off of p and r.

But yes Frank needs to do more offensively it has to start sooner rather than later. He should strive to be an all around stat filler.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Frank hater alert! I am a Frank homer and completely agree with you and its a bit annoying if you cant see this. Fizdale said all we want him to do is be aggressive. He loved the missed dunk on KP. Did Frank forget that? Does Fizdale need to dress up as optimism every day? Frank needs to call his own number especially against much smaller players plain and simple.

This!!! I root for all players in the blue and orange...I want nothing more than to see Frank succeed because I think he has the tools....The impact Frank had on both sides of the ball against Dallas was the best game Knick pg has had in a long while....With that said, can the coach help by putting his players in better positions, perhaps. But still, its up to Frank!

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Mudiay had no problem because he was playing for a contract. Frank is playing a system his coach wants. I don’t know if you guys have noticed this but he is expending a lot of energy in the defensive side of the ball. Honestly at time you see that he may be the only guy playing off the ball defense maybe you could put Dotson in that category.

I noticed one thing about Frank when he is tired he tends to elevate and bend his knees when shooting. Instead of keep his body vertical. Frank needs to shoot more it’s very true but how many times do you see a play being called and Frank has to sit in the corner and you know they are not going to give him the ball. All the action is happening at the top of the key. There are no angles very rarely any cutters. I might have seen two or three cuts. Portis to Dotson, Knox to Gibson and Barrett to Randle off of p and r.

But yes Frank needs to do more offensively it has to start sooner rather than later. He should strive to be an all around stat filler.

So Fiz had a different system when Mudiay, DSJ and Allen were on the court but when Frank checks in, he installs the Frank System? Got it!

Didn’t you see it how the offense sputters when Frank is out the game? The defense is nonexistent and the opposition either goes on a run or begins building their lead. Anyway I acknowledged that Frank needs to put more shots up. But he has the shortest rope and has been made an example of more that any other point on the team.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Frank hater alert! I am a Frank homer and completely agree with you and its a bit annoying if you cant see this. Fizdale said all we want him to do is be aggressive. He loved the missed dunk on KP. Did Frank forget that? Does Fizdale need to dress up as optimism every day? Frank needs to call his own number especially against much smaller players plain and simple.

Agree that Frank needs to take more initiative on offense. However, think a coach has to take some responsibility in how he tries to mold a players role. Its not a secret that Frank is a tentative offensive player. That he is a system guy and rarely goes on his own to call his own number. Coaches typically call 'Some' plays to get a that type of player going in the direction that the coach wishes him to go. Do not think it would hurt to draw up a few plays for Frank early to get him going. With that said, I do agree that the ones that are placing "All" the blame on Fiz are being unreasonable. Frank has to do a better job of getting a feel for the game and knowing when he is needed to assert himself. Its a characteristic that the high level PG's and players have. They need to know when its time to put their feet on the gas pedal and when to tap the brakes and get others involved. Frank just does not have that yet. Yet to be seen if its something that he can learn to do on a consistent basis.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Mudiay had no problem because he was playing for a contract. Frank is playing a system his coach wants. I don’t know if you guys have noticed this but he is expending a lot of energy in the defensive side of the ball. Honestly at time you see that he may be the only guy playing off the ball defense maybe you could put Dotson in that category.

I noticed one thing about Frank when he is tired he tends to elevate and bend his knees when shooting. Instead of keep his body vertical. Frank needs to shoot more it’s very true but how many times do you see a play being called and Frank has to sit in the corner and you know they are not going to give him the ball. All the action is happening at the top of the key. There are no angles very rarely any cutters. I might have seen two or three cuts. Portis to Dotson, Knox to Gibson and Barrett to Randle off of p and r.

But yes Frank needs to do more offensively it has to start sooner rather than later. He should strive to be an all around stat filler.

So Fiz had a different system when Mudiay, DSJ and Allen were on the court but when Frank checks in, he installs the Frank System? Got it!

Didn’t you see it how the offense sputters when Frank is out the game? The defense is nonexistent and the opposition either goes on a run or begins building their lead. Anyway I acknowledged that Frank needs to put more shots up. But he has the shortest rope and has been made an example of more that any other point on the team.

"Short Rope"? You have to understand that the short rope is now over 2 years old. He has received over 30 minutes a game since DSJR and Payton went out. Fans just get frustrated because they see a game like the one he ahd against LBJ and Luca and then the rest of the time he goes hiding on offense. Still think he should be given all year to improve and think his defensive talent should not be taken for granted or traded away. But you can understand the limited patience people are starting to have for excuses for why he is not performing at a consistent level at offense. Saying its a system or coach is getting old. He needs to take initiative and be more aggressive on a nightly basis.

What I'm hearing is "Trade Ntilikina, keep Fiz, play DSJ no matter what because DSJ has a higher ceiling."

Its one way to think about it.

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Mudiay had no problem because he was playing for a contract. Frank is playing a system his coach wants. I don’t know if you guys have noticed this but he is expending a lot of energy in the defensive side of the ball. Honestly at time you see that he may be the only guy playing off the ball defense maybe you could put Dotson in that category.

I noticed one thing about Frank when he is tired he tends to elevate and bend his knees when shooting. Instead of keep his body vertical. Frank needs to shoot more it’s very true but how many times do you see a play being called and Frank has to sit in the corner and you know they are not going to give him the ball. All the action is happening at the top of the key. There are no angles very rarely any cutters. I might have seen two or three cuts. Portis to Dotson, Knox to Gibson and Barrett to Randle off of p and r.

But yes Frank needs to do more offensively it has to start sooner rather than later. He should strive to be an all around stat filler.

So Fiz had a different system when Mudiay, DSJ and Allen were on the court but when Frank checks in, he installs the Frank System? Got it!

Didn’t you see it how the offense sputters when Frank is out the game? The defense is nonexistent and the opposition either goes on a run or begins building their lead. Anyway I acknowledged that Frank needs to put more shots up. But he has the shortest rope and has been made an example of more that any other point on the team.

"Short Rope"? You have to understand that the short rope is now over 2 years old. He has received over 30 minutes a game since DSJR and Payton went out. Fans just get frustrated because they see a game like the one he ahd against LBJ and Luca and then the rest of the time he goes hiding on offense. Still think he should be given all year to improve and think his defensive talent should not be taken for granted or traded away. But you can understand the limited patience people are starting to have for excuses for why he is not performing at a consistent level at offense. Saying its a system or coach is getting old. He needs to take initiative and be more aggressive on a nightly basis.

What I'm hearing is "Trade Ntilikina, keep Fiz, play DSJ no matter what because DSJ has a higher ceiling."

Its one way to think about it.

Your 'Reading" wrong. No one is saying to trade Frank. Never mentioned anything about playing anyone solely due to their ceiling. That may be a good separate dialogue. Merely mentioning that Frank needs to take some responsibility and that fans are getting tired of blaming everything but his lack of consistent aggressiveness. Think you need to take the whole Smith vs Frank thing out of being a Knick fan. To me that's like players on a team not supporting each other just because they think they should get more minutes. Think they should both be given ample minutes to grow. Smith has shown success here in just a half a year. Don't think we should boo or give up on him after 30 minutes of play in 2019. Think Frank should be our defensive stopper.

Not making excuses for Fiz. Think he needs to make changes. However, getting rid of a coach after one year and 10 games is short sighted and just a fanatical knee jerk approach. Specially with 9 new faces on a squad.

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Mudiay had no problem because he was playing for a contract. Frank is playing a system his coach wants. I don’t know if you guys have noticed this but he is expending a lot of energy in the defensive side of the ball. Honestly at time you see that he may be the only guy playing off the ball defense maybe you could put Dotson in that category.

I noticed one thing about Frank when he is tired he tends to elevate and bend his knees when shooting. Instead of keep his body vertical. Frank needs to shoot more it’s very true but how many times do you see a play being called and Frank has to sit in the corner and you know they are not going to give him the ball. All the action is happening at the top of the key. There are no angles very rarely any cutters. I might have seen two or three cuts. Portis to Dotson, Knox to Gibson and Barrett to Randle off of p and r.

But yes Frank needs to do more offensively it has to start sooner rather than later. He should strive to be an all around stat filler.

So Fiz had a different system when Mudiay, DSJ and Allen were on the court but when Frank checks in, he installs the Frank System? Got it!

Didn’t you see it how the offense sputters when Frank is out the game? The defense is nonexistent and the opposition either goes on a run or begins building their lead. Anyway I acknowledged that Frank needs to put more shots up. But he has the shortest rope and has been made an example of more that any other point on the team.

"Short Rope"? You have to understand that the short rope is now over 2 years old. He has received over 30 minutes a game since DSJR and Payton went out. Fans just get frustrated because they see a game like the one he ahd against LBJ and Luca and then the rest of the time he goes hiding on offense. Still think he should be given all year to improve and think his defensive talent should not be taken for granted or traded away. But you can understand the limited patience people are starting to have for excuses for why he is not performing at a consistent level at offense. Saying its a system or coach is getting old. He needs to take initiative and be more aggressive on a nightly basis.

What I'm hearing is "Trade Ntilikina, keep Fiz, play DSJ no matter what because DSJ has a higher ceiling."

Its one way to think about it.

Your 'Reading" wrong. No one is saying to trade Frank. Never mentioned anything about playing anyone solely due to their ceiling. That may be a good separate dialogue. Merely mentioning that Frank needs to take some responsibility and that fans are getting tired of blaming everything but his lack of consistent aggressiveness. Think you need to take the whole Smith vs Frank thing out of being a Knick fan. To me that's like players on a team not supporting each other just because they think they should get more minutes. Think they should both be given ample minutes to grow. Smith has shown success here in just a half a year. Don't think we should boo or give up on him after 30 minutes of play in 2019. Think Frank should be our defensive stopper.

Not making excuses for Fiz. Think he needs to make changes. However, getting rid of a coach after one year and 10 games is short sighted and just a fanatical knee jerk approach. Specially with 9 new faces on a squad.

OK that's a fair argument. BUT...

Frank hasn't started enough games this season to make assumptions about how he's performing. In the games he's played he's goten jerked around pretty good.

And Fizdale is the reason 9 new players are wandering around like chickens with their heads cut off. Keep him? WHY?

We've seen the Knicks win (or just lose by a hair) when Ntilikina is on. IMO, we are playing to win - this can't be a perennial cycle of free for all - cough, "development" where the coach gets a "Get out of Coaching, Free" card.

Win. We aren't winning or close to winning with DSJ on the floor even for a little while.

Agree that there is a lot of things Fiz needs to add, fix and change. However, did anyone think that we would go into a season of 9 new faces and not have to make many adjustments and need ample time to gel?

What you said about Smith can be repeated and amplified about Frank. Sine he has been here much longer. However, saying that would be unfair to Frank as it would to any player. And that includes Smith. Fact is this team is not very good not has not been very good for a long time.

But again, just making mention that Frank needs to bear some responsibility and fans are getting tired of the excuses for his lack of aggressiveness.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Mudiay had no problem because he was playing for a contract. Frank is playing a system his coach wants. I don’t know if you guys have noticed this but he is expending a lot of energy in the defensive side of the ball. Honestly at time you see that he may be the only guy playing off the ball defense maybe you could put Dotson in that category.

I noticed one thing about Frank when he is tired he tends to elevate and bend his knees when shooting. Instead of keep his body vertical. Frank needs to shoot more it’s very true but how many times do you see a play being called and Frank has to sit in the corner and you know they are not going to give him the ball. All the action is happening at the top of the key. There are no angles very rarely any cutters. I might have seen two or three cuts. Portis to Dotson, Knox to Gibson and Barrett to Randle off of p and r.

But yes Frank needs to do more offensively it has to start sooner rather than later. He should strive to be an all around stat filler.

So Fiz had a different system when Mudiay, DSJ and Allen were on the court but when Frank checks in, he installs the Frank System? Got it!

Didn’t you see it how the offense sputters when Frank is out the game? The defense is nonexistent and the opposition either goes on a run or begins building their lead. Anyway I acknowledged that Frank needs to put more shots up. But he has the shortest rope and has been made an example of more that any other point on the team.

"Short Rope"? You have to understand that the short rope is now over 2 years old. He has received over 30 minutes a game since DSJR and Payton went out. Fans just get frustrated because they see a game like the one he ahd against LBJ and Luca and then the rest of the time he goes hiding on offense. Still think he should be given all year to improve and think his defensive talent should not be taken for granted or traded away. But you can understand the limited patience people are starting to have for excuses for why he is not performing at a consistent level at offense. Saying its a system or coach is getting old. He needs to take initiative and be more aggressive on a nightly basis.

What I'm hearing is "Trade Ntilikina, keep Fiz, play DSJ no matter what because DSJ has a higher ceiling."

Its one way to think about it.

Your 'Reading" wrong. No one is saying to trade Frank. Never mentioned anything about playing anyone solely due to their ceiling. That may be a good separate dialogue. Merely mentioning that Frank needs to take some responsibility and that fans are getting tired of blaming everything but his lack of consistent aggressiveness. Think you need to take the whole Smith vs Frank thing out of being a Knick fan. To me that's like players on a team not supporting each other just because they think they should get more minutes. Think they should both be given ample minutes to grow. Smith has shown success here in just a half a year. Don't think we should boo or give up on him after 30 minutes of play in 2019. Think Frank should be our defensive stopper.

Not making excuses for Fiz. Think he needs to make changes. However, getting rid of a coach after one year and 10 games is short sighted and just a fanatical knee jerk approach. Specially with 9 new faces on a squad.

OK that's a fair argument. BUT...

Frank hasn't started enough games this season to make assumptions about how he's performing. In the games he's played he's goten jerked around pretty good.

And Fizdale is the reason 9 new players are wandering around like chickens with their heads cut off. Keep him? WHY?

We've seen the Knicks win (or just lose by a hair) when Ntilikina is on. IMO, we are playing to win - this can't be a perennial cycle of free for all - cough, "development" where the coach gets a "Get out of Coaching, Free" card.

Win. We aren't winning or close to winning with DSJ on the floor even for a little while.

Agree that there is a lot of things Fiz needs to add, fix and change. However, did anyone think that we would go into a season of 9 new faces and not have to make many adjustments and need ample time to gel?

What you said about Smith can be repeated and amplified about Frank. Sine he has been here much longer. However, saying that would be unfair to Frank as it would to any player. And that includes Smith. Fact is this team is not very good not has not been very good for a long time.

But again, just making mention that Frank needs to bear some responsibility and fans are getting tired of the excuses for his lack of aggressiveness.

Some fans, myself included, get tired of hearing, "this team is not very good not has not been very good for a long time".

The last year was in the hands of Fizdale. Even in losing there was time to make an impact on those who remained and those who were never in danger of leaving.

This team doesn't need training wheels. It needs to get energized. Fiz ain't cutting it.

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

Did Fiz force Frank to be more aggressive against Dallas or was that Frank stepping his game up? You guys put too much on the coach! This ain't junior high or High school ball..Frank being passive is on Frank. Mudiay aint have no problem getting up shots last year playing for Fiz. Same for DSJ and Allen last year!

Mudiay had no problem because he was playing for a contract. Frank is playing a system his coach wants. I don’t know if you guys have noticed this but he is expending a lot of energy in the defensive side of the ball. Honestly at time you see that he may be the only guy playing off the ball defense maybe you could put Dotson in that category.

I noticed one thing about Frank when he is tired he tends to elevate and bend his knees when shooting. Instead of keep his body vertical. Frank needs to shoot more it’s very true but how many times do you see a play being called and Frank has to sit in the corner and you know they are not going to give him the ball. All the action is happening at the top of the key. There are no angles very rarely any cutters. I might have seen two or three cuts. Portis to Dotson, Knox to Gibson and Barrett to Randle off of p and r.

But yes Frank needs to do more offensively it has to start sooner rather than later. He should strive to be an all around stat filler.

So Fiz had a different system when Mudiay, DSJ and Allen were on the court but when Frank checks in, he installs the Frank System? Got it!

Didn’t you see it how the offense sputters when Frank is out the game? The defense is nonexistent and the opposition either goes on a run or begins building their lead. Anyway I acknowledged that Frank needs to put more shots up. But he has the shortest rope and has been made an example of more that any other point on the team.

"Short Rope"? You have to understand that the short rope is now over 2 years old. He has received over 30 minutes a game since DSJR and Payton went out. Fans just get frustrated because they see a game like the one he ahd against LBJ and Luca and then the rest of the time he goes hiding on offense. Still think he should be given all year to improve and think his defensive talent should not be taken for granted or traded away. But you can understand the limited patience people are starting to have for excuses for why he is not performing at a consistent level at offense. Saying its a system or coach is getting old. He needs to take initiative and be more aggressive on a nightly basis.

What I'm hearing is "Trade Ntilikina, keep Fiz, play DSJ no matter what because DSJ has a higher ceiling."

Its one way to think about it.

Your 'Reading" wrong. No one is saying to trade Frank. Never mentioned anything about playing anyone solely due to their ceiling. That may be a good separate dialogue. Merely mentioning that Frank needs to take some responsibility and that fans are getting tired of blaming everything but his lack of consistent aggressiveness. Think you need to take the whole Smith vs Frank thing out of being a Knick fan. To me that's like players on a team not supporting each other just because they think they should get more minutes. Think they should both be given ample minutes to grow. Smith has shown success here in just a half a year. Don't think we should boo or give up on him after 30 minutes of play in 2019. Think Frank should be our defensive stopper.

Not making excuses for Fiz. Think he needs to make changes. However, getting rid of a coach after one year and 10 games is short sighted and just a fanatical knee jerk approach. Specially with 9 new faces on a squad.

OK that's a fair argument. BUT...

Frank hasn't started enough games this season to make assumptions about how he's performing. In the games he's played he's goten jerked around pretty good.

And Fizdale is the reason 9 new players are wandering around like chickens with their heads cut off. Keep him? WHY?

We've seen the Knicks win (or just lose by a hair) when Ntilikina is on. IMO, we are playing to win - this can't be a perennial cycle of free for all - cough, "development" where the coach gets a "Get out of Coaching, Free" card.

Win. We aren't winning or close to winning with DSJ on the floor even for a little while.

Agree that there is a lot of things Fiz needs to add, fix and change. However, did anyone think that we would go into a season of 9 new faces and not have to make many adjustments and need ample time to gel?

What you said about Smith can be repeated and amplified about Frank. Sine he has been here much longer. However, saying that would be unfair to Frank as it would to any player. And that includes Smith. Fact is this team is not very good not has not been very good for a long time.

But again, just making mention that Frank needs to bear some responsibility and fans are getting tired of the excuses for his lack of aggressiveness.

In the abstract i agree with the bold. But in the particular i don't think that's the problem we're talking about

Last year he had tons of new faces -- most were rookies and busts. this year we have seasoned vets/ grown ups who have been in the NBA

our coach stinks -- it's really that simple. He plays guys to their weaknesses and as far as team style (i use that word loosely here) he plays right into our opponents hands

Has it felt to anyone else as if we were throwing games. What I mean is it seems that so many game time decisions are soooooooooooo unbelievably counter-productive that I want to just scream and I hate myself for getting so invested in just knowing what bad things are going to happen next.

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.

I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

YES.

And this is messing with Ntilikina's head and game. Fizdale keeps trying to make Randall and Morris into something they are not during games that count.

It is not Knox who should be playing SF but Dot or RJ... whatever but get Dot into the mix. He too plays D.

I'm at wit's end with Fizdale - basketball lunacy game after game.

Hate to dissapoint but running more PnR's with Frank won't change things. Agree that biggest issue right now is with Randle. He is simply putting way to much on his shoulders. Guy plays like if he doesn't score every time he will lose his job. Ironically, he is the only one guaranteed a long term deal.
You look at last nights game and Taj was better for the team.

Would like to see Frank just put in to guard the best offensive player on the other team. The way OKC used Roberson. Thought Fiz was getting him in once White hit 2 threes. Unfortunately, White hit another and when Frank came in he was also unable to stop him. Don't think Frank even likes to be a focus point on offense. Have to give Smith more minutes to get back into shape. He showed some good spots last night but still seems to be forcing things and without confidence. I would like to see him focus on driving and creating for other and only look to score by going strong to hoop and draw fouls. In regards to Portis and Randle, agree that Fiz should go with either Portis or Randle depending on who is playing best team ball. But never both of them. If neither playing well then go with Taj. At least he passes and plays Defense, In those cases go small with RJ, Morris or Knox at 4.,

Been trying to get in on the convo but had to drive all day smh.

I am leaning toward agreeing with you on this especially off what he displayed last night.

Still would like to see some type of plan of action towards this though. Our bigs don't set screens in order to free up the PGs to penetrate. They set slip screens more than anything in order to recieve the ball back. Spacing is also a huge issue the paint ALWAYS looks croweded.

Some more of this is all I am asking for. No reason we shouldn't see this run a few times a game with all of our guards.

Spread floor opening up the paint, somewhat of a pick to free up the guard. Trier played it right found Gibson who found Portis for the high % corner three from Portis who was a 40% 3pt shooter before he became an instabum with us. Pulled it off with a 5 seconds in the shot clock. As if there was more time and White was able to recover in time. Knox was wide open as well. This is better utilization of guys like Gibson and Portis and Randle. As well as more PG friendly with the lane not as congested.

I have mixed views about the PnR aspect. I have a very tough time seeing Frank being some ISO, beat his man off the dribble, type. However, I can see him in PnR more because whether slip screen or otherwise i think first and foremost he is looking (too much) to facilitate another player. It may be a bit of pop-psychology but i think it would be easier to convince Frank he will help his teammates by mastering the PnR. I can see Mitch, Randle and Morris all benefitting from this whether PnR or pick and pop

I also think he should be initiating the offense way more. He's tall and can see things better. At present he dumps ball off to Randle or RJ and then hides in a corner where he can't even help spacing because they never pass it to him to keep teams honest and if they did he'd probably miss as he's not that type of shooter. Makes no sense for Randle or Morris to initiate -- they're liabilities in that role

When RJ is on the floor it's a tougher question and we need to find some way for Frank to contribute on O when RJ is initiating the offense