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If poor play continues to Dec 15...
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Knixkik
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11/11/2019  9:28 AM
Front office can save face by unloading some of the vets and reverting back to full youth movement with Barrett, Knox, Mitch, and Frank all showing varying degrees of growth/promise. They can sell it as using the vets to have expedited development and maybe we don't see it in the record but we see it in the growth of the young players. Knicks can still keep big free agents Randle and Morris in useful roles. I look at what Atlanta has done. They are not a good team by any means, but you see the plan to build around Young with shooting/defense and toughness, and the Knicks can do the same with Barrett. Knox should eventually replace Randle in the lineup and slide Morris over to the stretch 4 where he belongs. I want to keep Morris as he can be the emotional leader and fits as a 3 and D player plus someone who can take over from time to time. Randle can move to that bench role that Jabari Parker is excelling in for Atlanta.

C Mitch F Morris F Knox G Barrett G Frank 6th Randle

You improve floor spacing in the lineup and are really investing in the youth. Then the goal should be to draft an elite PG who can penetrate and spread the floor. Frank absolutely has a place moving forward in a reserve role as a combo guard, but unfortunately lacks the speed and aggressiveness as a starting PG. Again, it's about fitting the pieces around the core players. If we don't win games, at least make it look like there is a purpose and not just a bunch of pieces that don't fit. In the new NBA you need floor spacing and versatility, especially around a player like Barrett that shows a ton of promise, but needs the cast around him to make sense in order to maximize his talent. Also, address the coaching situation this year and make sure you have the right guy. If you don't, don't wait until the offseason. Fix it now to get a jump start.

AUTOADVERT
CrushAlot
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11/11/2019  9:39 AM
I agree about needing an aggressive, speedy point and moving Randle to the bench. I don’t know what the market will be for the vets the Knicks signed. Teams don’t do a lot of picks for players trades anymore. Morris might be the guy you could get a pick for but I agree about keeping him.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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11/11/2019  9:45 AM
For a team in “Win mode” now Morris and second pick out for a quality player with a longer term deal that fits our timeline might be suitable. We could also do that for a team that returns us a future protected first round pick. Morris and a second that is. I’m just throwing it out. It wont be anything that saves us this year.
Knixkik
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11/11/2019  9:47 AM
CrushAlot wrote:I agree about needing an aggressive, speedy point and moving Randle to the bench. I don’t know what the market will be for the vets the Knicks signed. Teams don’t do a lot of picks for players trades anymore. Morris might be the guy you could get a pick for but I agree about keeping him.

Yeah if you get nothing for some of these guys then you just release them. Nothing gained, nothing lost. This belongs in the draft thread, but check out highlights of Nico Mannion from last night. Tell me he’s not a fit in the lineup I listed above with someone like Barrett who moves very well without the ball and Morris and Knox who are above average spot up shooters. And the fit with Mitch goes without saying.

fishmike
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11/11/2019  10:07 AM
I think you see this scenario, Fizdale goes and they promote Miller. Let the kids play
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knixkik
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11/11/2019  10:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/11/2019  10:48 AM
Nalod wrote:For a team in “Win mode” now Morris and second pick out for a quality player with a longer term deal that fits our timeline might be suitable. We could also do that for a team that returns us a future protected first round pick. Morris and a second that is. I’m just throwing it out. It wont be anything that saves us this year.

Yeah it's possible. I love what Morris brings though. I think he's the right influence on our younger guys. You need some professionals in the locker room even for a rebuilding team. He's going to go after it and brings the toughness. His chucking away is more due to necessity. Get good playmaking from the guards and he can be relegated to a spot up threat and maybe mix in some high post play once in awhile when the offense breaks down and you need a basket. What i saw from Mannion is what we need. He will go in the 5-7 range in the draft. He pushes the pace, gets to the basket, can knock down the 3, and makes the right pass. Size and defensive potential limits his upside to a Bibby type player, or poor man's Trae, but that's why you have Frank off the bench to compliment that.

C Mitch (p&r, lop threat, shotblocker)
F Morris (spot up shooter, defender)
F Knox (spot up shooter)
G Barrett (playmaker, finisher, cutter, defender)
G Mannion (drive and dish playmaker, spot up threat)

That's how you build a team that makes sense. It would be fun with increased uptempo play and spacing.

houston20
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11/11/2019  11:17 AM
I think you got get a point guard quickly temporarily fix like dennis schroder can't wait until decemember 15 you need point guard know.
Vmart
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11/11/2019  12:00 PM
Before you get any point guard get a good coach a player who has played the point in the NBA preferably. Someone like Mark Jackson to mentor and develop a point guard. Also what would help tremendously for point guard play is less isolation basketball. Isolation basketball takes away from point guard play promotes stagnation and less assist and penetration opportunities. So before we gripe about PG play know what is being run and asked if the point guards currently on the team.
Nalod
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11/11/2019  12:29 PM
Vmart wrote:Before you get any point guard get a good coach a player who has played the point in the NBA preferably. Someone like Mark Jackson to mentor and develop a point guard. Also what would help tremendously for point guard play is less isolation basketball. Isolation basketball takes away from point guard play promotes stagnation and less assist and penetration opportunities. So before we gripe about PG play know what is being run and asked if the point guards currently on the team.

or Like JVG, a guy that played PG in college (Niagra) and then established himself as a young assistant analyzing Video, then as assistant before getting the gig. Good coaches from other coaches, like Pat Riley.

Oh wait, that's basically Fiz! Shyt,, How about a young guy nobody heard of but is young and cool? Relates to players. Ah, Fiz again! Maybe a guy that ascended, then failed but learned some serious lessons? Did it again! How about Kidd!!! Not like he ever......Oh wait, Never mind.
Mark Jax!!! Perfect, out of the league about 7 years and he never had any issues with......Oh, wait, he did. LUE!!!!!

CrushAlot
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11/11/2019  12:36 PM
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Before you get any point guard get a good coach a player who has played the point in the NBA preferably. Someone like Mark Jackson to mentor and develop a point guard. Also what would help tremendously for point guard play is less isolation basketball. Isolation basketball takes away from point guard play promotes stagnation and less assist and penetration opportunities. So before we gripe about PG play know what is being run and asked if the point guards currently on the team.

or Like JVG, a guy that played PG in college (Niagra) and then established himself as a young assistant analyzing Video, then as assistant before getting the gig. Good coaches from other coaches, like Pat Riley.

Oh wait, that's basically Fiz! Shyt,, How about a young guy nobody heard of but is young and cool? Relates to players. Ah, Fiz again! Maybe a guy that ascended, then failed but learned some serious lessons? Did it again! How about Kidd!!! Not like he ever......Oh wait, Never mind.
Mark Jax!!! Perfect, out of the league about 7 years and he never had any issues with......Oh, wait, he did. LUE!!!!!

Bring back Josh Longstaff😀

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Vmart
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11/11/2019  12:47 PM
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Before you get any point guard get a good coach a player who has played the point in the NBA preferably. Someone like Mark Jackson to mentor and develop a point guard. Also what would help tremendously for point guard play is less isolation basketball. Isolation basketball takes away from point guard play promotes stagnation and less assist and penetration opportunities. So before we gripe about PG play know what is being run and asked if the point guards currently on the team.

or Like JVG, a guy that played PG in college (Niagra) and then established himself as a young assistant analyzing Video, then as assistant before getting the gig. Good coaches from other coaches, like Pat Riley.

Oh wait, that's basically Fiz! Shyt,, How about a young guy nobody heard of but is young and cool? Relates to players. Ah, Fiz again! Maybe a guy that ascended, then failed but learned some serious lessons? Did it again! How about Kidd!!! Not like he ever......Oh wait, Never mind.
Mark Jax!!! Perfect, out of the league about 7 years and he never had any issues with......Oh, wait, he did. LUE!!!!!

That is the thing Nalod you mention JVG but JVG already had superstars On the team when he took over. JVG never developed a played under his watch he was a coach that liked veterans and good ones at that. Fizdale has had ample opportunities to succeed but has failed at badly. Just because one time a formula worked doesn’t mean it work all the time. JVG was adamant about one thing and that was defense defense and defense. Just what is Fizdale adamant about? Like I said in the past it’s how you learn from your mentors that matters. Kurt Rambis as an example was on the staff of arguable the two greatest coaches we have seen. Riley and Jackson but the dude can’t coach for shyt. Some have the ability to learn and take in information and some don’t.

Nalod
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11/11/2019  12:48 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Before you get any point guard get a good coach a player who has played the point in the NBA preferably. Someone like Mark Jackson to mentor and develop a point guard. Also what would help tremendously for point guard play is less isolation basketball. Isolation basketball takes away from point guard play promotes stagnation and less assist and penetration opportunities. So before we gripe about PG play know what is being run and asked if the point guards currently on the team.

or Like JVG, a guy that played PG in college (Niagra) and then established himself as a young assistant analyzing Video, then as assistant before getting the gig. Good coaches from other coaches, like Pat Riley.

Oh wait, that's basically Fiz! Shyt,, How about a young guy nobody heard of but is young and cool? Relates to players. Ah, Fiz again! Maybe a guy that ascended, then failed but learned some serious lessons? Did it again! How about Kidd!!! Not like he ever......Oh wait, Never mind.
Mark Jax!!! Perfect, out of the league about 7 years and he never had any issues with......Oh, wait, he did. LUE!!!!!

Bring back Josh Longstaff😀

Coach Budds assistant??? Oh my!!!!! Truth be told, if he is the man then bring him in!!!!
I don't think the knicks are really doing the wrong things but it don't add up over time.
A guy like that is not a mid season hire and Fiz gets at least 50 or so games before he gets the boot.

Vmart
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11/11/2019  12:51 PM
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Before you get any point guard get a good coach a player who has played the point in the NBA preferably. Someone like Mark Jackson to mentor and develop a point guard. Also what would help tremendously for point guard play is less isolation basketball. Isolation basketball takes away from point guard play promotes stagnation and less assist and penetration opportunities. So before we gripe about PG play know what is being run and asked if the point guards currently on the team.

or Like JVG, a guy that played PG in college (Niagra) and then established himself as a young assistant analyzing Video, then as assistant before getting the gig. Good coaches from other coaches, like Pat Riley.

Oh wait, that's basically Fiz! Shyt,, How about a young guy nobody heard of but is young and cool? Relates to players. Ah, Fiz again! Maybe a guy that ascended, then failed but learned some serious lessons? Did it again! How about Kidd!!! Not like he ever......Oh wait, Never mind.
Mark Jax!!! Perfect, out of the league about 7 years and he never had any issues with......Oh, wait, he did. LUE!!!!!

Bring back Josh Longstaff😀

Coach Budds assistant??? Oh my!!!!! Truth be told, if he is the man then bring him in!!!!
I don't think the knicks are really doing the wrong things but it don't add up over time.
A guy like that is not a mid season hire and Fiz gets at least 50 or so games before he gets the boot.

That is 50 games to many. Don’t feel so bad for Fizz it’s a guaranteed contract. He will get his money and go back to the heat to become an assistant or he could coach high school basketball.

BigDaddyG
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11/11/2019  12:58 PM
houston20 wrote:I think you got get a point guard quickly temporarily fix like dennis schroder can't wait until decemember 15 you need point guard know.

I'm not giving up assets for a guy like Schroeder, who we'll want to upgrade later anyway. We already have that type of placeholder in Payton. Let's face it, nothing short of Prime Westbrook is getting us into the playoffs anyway. We need to accept that we suck and start circling point guards in the upcoming draft.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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11/11/2019  1:06 PM
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Before you get any point guard get a good coach a player who has played the point in the NBA preferably. Someone like Mark Jackson to mentor and develop a point guard. Also what would help tremendously for point guard play is less isolation basketball. Isolation basketball takes away from point guard play promotes stagnation and less assist and penetration opportunities. So before we gripe about PG play know what is being run and asked if the point guards currently on the team.

or Like JVG, a guy that played PG in college (Niagra) and then established himself as a young assistant analyzing Video, then as assistant before getting the gig. Good coaches from other coaches, like Pat Riley.

Oh wait, that's basically Fiz! Shyt,, How about a young guy nobody heard of but is young and cool? Relates to players. Ah, Fiz again! Maybe a guy that ascended, then failed but learned some serious lessons? Did it again! How about Kidd!!! Not like he ever......Oh wait, Never mind.
Mark Jax!!! Perfect, out of the league about 7 years and he never had any issues with......Oh, wait, he did. LUE!!!!!

That is the thing Nalod you mention JVG but JVG already had superstars On the team when he took over. JVG never developed a played under his watch he was a coach that liked veterans and good ones at that. Fizdale has had ample opportunities to succeed but has failed at badly. Just because one time a formula worked doesn’t mean it work all the time. JVG was adamant about one thing and that was defense defense and defense. Just what is Fizdale adamant about? Like I said in the past it’s how you learn from your mentors that matters. Kurt Rambis as an example was on the staff of arguable the two greatest coaches we have seen. Riley and Jackson but the dude can’t coach for shyt. Some have the ability to learn and take in information and some don’t.



NO doubt JVG had a ready made team and all he had to do was undo Nellies work. Ewing owned him.
Rambis never had a chance anywhere he went. Not all assistants are cut to be head coaches either.
Fiz came from a very good tree, did a respectable job year one in Memphis and got cut off his second year. Objectively (not an easy thing for a knick fan to be) Fiz should be coaching KP, Hardaway, Barrett, Knox, and perhaps Kyrie or Durant. This roster is challenging to say the least. Nalod does not know what is wrong other than when the team is doing the right thing and not executing. Last night was a shyt show in the first half. Second half we turned to Watchman on HBO.
Vmart
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11/11/2019  1:10 PM
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Before you get any point guard get a good coach a player who has played the point in the NBA preferably. Someone like Mark Jackson to mentor and develop a point guard. Also what would help tremendously for point guard play is less isolation basketball. Isolation basketball takes away from point guard play promotes stagnation and less assist and penetration opportunities. So before we gripe about PG play know what is being run and asked if the point guards currently on the team.

or Like JVG, a guy that played PG in college (Niagra) and then established himself as a young assistant analyzing Video, then as assistant before getting the gig. Good coaches from other coaches, like Pat Riley.

Oh wait, that's basically Fiz! Shyt,, How about a young guy nobody heard of but is young and cool? Relates to players. Ah, Fiz again! Maybe a guy that ascended, then failed but learned some serious lessons? Did it again! How about Kidd!!! Not like he ever......Oh wait, Never mind.
Mark Jax!!! Perfect, out of the league about 7 years and he never had any issues with......Oh, wait, he did. LUE!!!!!

That is the thing Nalod you mention JVG but JVG already had superstars On the team when he took over. JVG never developed a played under his watch he was a coach that liked veterans and good ones at that. Fizdale has had ample opportunities to succeed but has failed at badly. Just because one time a formula worked doesn’t mean it work all the time. JVG was adamant about one thing and that was defense defense and defense. Just what is Fizdale adamant about? Like I said in the past it’s how you learn from your mentors that matters. Kurt Rambis as an example was on the staff of arguable the two greatest coaches we have seen. Riley and Jackson but the dude can’t coach for shyt. Some have the ability to learn and take in information and some don’t.



NO doubt JVG had a ready made team and all he had to do was undo Nellies work. Ewing owned him.
Rambis never had a chance anywhere he went. Not all assistants are cut to be head coaches either.
Fiz came from a very good tree, did a respectable job year one in Memphis and got cut off his second year. Objectively (not an easy thing for a knick fan to be) Fiz should be coaching KP, Hardaway, Barrett, Knox, and perhaps Kyrie or Durant. This roster is challenging to say the least. Nalod does not know what is wrong other than when the team is doing the right thing and not executing. Last night was a shyt show in the first half. Second half we turned to Watchman on HBO.

I flipped to the football game. I had seen enough of the Knicks.

NYKBocker
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11/11/2019  1:14 PM
JVG please.
shinmen
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11/11/2019  2:31 PM
I' d really like frazier to be a consultant on how to defend during practices. He always say the right things when i listen to him and he proved he knows what he s talking about. He seems to like money. Given a generous contract, I'm sure he would accept.
If poor play continues to Dec 15...

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