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Summer Kiss of death, And your naivete
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Panos
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11/1/2019  12:00 AM
I hear some of you bitching and moaning about DSjr not being steps ahead of last year after all this time training in the summer with Keith Smart.
Let me ask you -- how many times have we heard this narrative, and when has it EVER panned out?! Are y'all so bloody gullible? Simple?
How many times have we heard this story?
Frank working on his handles.
Amare working out with Hakeem.
Summer obsessions with Melo.
Michael freaking Sweetney losing weight.
Jared Jeffries learning to shoot from Houston, was it?! Come on!

This guy bulking up, that guy slimming down, the other guy working on his shot. New guy taking his teammates to dinner. Who gives a ****, yo? It's all tabloid fodder! Can y'all just wake up? None of that **** matters till you see it in the regular season. I may be a cynical bastard, but y'all just plain naive.

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Welpee
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11/1/2019  1:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2019  1:44 AM
Panos wrote:I hear some of you bitching and moaning about DSjr not being steps ahead of last year after all this time training in the summer with Keith Smart.
Let me ask you -- how many times have we heard this narrative, and when has it EVER panned out?! Are y'all so bloody gullible? Simple?
How many times have we heard this story?
Frank working on his handles.
Amare working out with Hakeem.
Summer obsessions with Melo.
Michael freaking Sweetney losing weight.
Jared Jeffries learning to shoot from Houston, was it?! Come on!

This guy bulking up, that guy slimming down, the other guy working on his shot. New guy taking his teammates to dinner. Who gives a ****, yo? It's all tabloid fodder! Can y'all just wake up? None of that **** matters till you see it in the regular season. I may be a cynical bastard, but y'all just plain naive.

Yeah, it's not like we heard about Giannis putting in major work during the off-season and getting better...oh yeah, he did actually get better. Not like we ever heard about Kobe working on his game in the summer and improving...oh yeah, he did improve. And all those reports about Karl Malone working on his free throws were bogus...except he went from shooting under 50% as a rookie to becoming a 74% lifetime free throw shooter. Heck, we used to hear reports about our best player Patrick Ewing and his legendary Georgetown work outs with Mourning and Mutombo and all three got better.

A lot of players work on getting better in the off-season. Some see results, some don't. It is not naive to hope our guys get better because there are plenty of examples of players getting better. If you want to cherry pick every case when it didn't pan out and only look at those players that's on you.

It's also interesting that you conveniently didn't mention Knox working on his shooting during the off-season and so far (though its early) his percentages have improved across the board.

CrushAlot
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11/1/2019  5:31 AM
Frank’s handles are better. Knox has looked much better. Regular season RJ has been much better then summer league RJ. Smith injured his back. He might be more summer hype then substance but you watch the team. You can’t say Smith has the athleticism that he has shown in the past or in the summer. Twenty one year olds don’t just lose their athleticism. I want to see how things play out over the next 77 games.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
anrst
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11/1/2019  7:15 AM
Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

Allanfan20
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11/1/2019  8:10 AM
Ball handling is far easier to improve than shooting and Frank definitely improved his handling. Most of his TOs come from bad passes. Shooting is different though. Some people just don’t have it, especially in game situations...

And it’s not that Dennis didn’t improve. It’s that he regressed. Is it because of his back and his family? Maybe maybe not. The fact is though... he regressed and the Knicks play bad with him on the court.

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Vmart
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11/1/2019  8:44 AM
Only thing I look at if the players are working out I think that is the only thing that matters. The rest make a no difference to me. Shooting in an empty gym easy anyone can do it and improve. Comparing Kobe and Giannis to DSJ absolutely a joke. We don’t even know if DSJ is driven to the extent that those guys were that makes a difference too.

Pianos is right I’m sure there are countless practice and workout superstars it can they translate all that to a real game situation.

SupremeCommander
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11/1/2019  9:42 AM
Panos wrote:I hear some of you bitching and moaning about DSjr not being steps ahead of last year after all this time training in the summer with Keith Smart.
Let me ask you -- how many times have we heard this narrative, and when has it EVER panned out?! Are y'all so bloody gullible? Simple?
How many times have we heard this story?
Frank working on his handles.
Amare working out with Hakeem.
Summer obsessions with Melo.
Michael freaking Sweetney losing weight.
Jared Jeffries learning to shoot from Houston, was it?! Come on!

This guy bulking up, that guy slimming down, the other guy working on his shot. New guy taking his teammates to dinner. Who gives a ****, yo? It's all tabloid fodder! Can y'all just wake up? None of that **** matters till you see it in the regular season. I may be a cynical bastard, but y'all just plain naive.

post of the year candidate

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martin
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11/1/2019  11:14 AM
anrst wrote:Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

+10000

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Panos
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11/1/2019  11:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2019  11:40 AM
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

+10000

Afraid not. from the "What did you Expect" thread:

fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I expected a lot more out of DSJ. I expected more from Morris and Randle. I have been very pleased with RJ and Knox. If the Knicks had beaten the Nets I would be in a great place. I like the fight the team has shown for the most part.
this. DS is very disappointing. He was going to be the athletic spark, worked on the jumper, all we heard was how good he looked in camp and wow he's just looked utterly terrible. Hopefully he get himself right mentally and can come back and help.

The promising thing is we have played hard, competed hard and much of the slop can be cleaned up with reps

And no dis respect to crush and fishy in particular.

That's just the recent reaction. I was reading all kinds of stuff in here all summer about how much DS was improving his shot. You want to pretend it wasn't happening, go ahead. Its Lucy pulling away the football, again and again.

Welpee
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11/1/2019  12:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2019  2:02 PM
Vmart wrote:Comparing Kobe and Giannis to DSJ absolutely a joke.
Who compared them? I am refuting his contention that hearing reports of people putting in work during the off-season should be ignored because the results never materalize on the court. Simply not true. And there are lesser players who can be referenced to counter that too (which I did with Knox).

I think every player should be viewed as "wait and see" regarding their off season improvement.

Also interesting how five games into the season people are quick to pass judgement. This is a 82 season you know.

martin
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11/1/2019  12:25 PM
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

+10000

Afraid not. from the "What did you Expect" thread:

fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I expected a lot more out of DSJ. I expected more from Morris and Randle. I have been very pleased with RJ and Knox. If the Knicks had beaten the Nets I would be in a great place. I like the fight the team has shown for the most part.
this. DS is very disappointing. He was going to be the athletic spark, worked on the jumper, all we heard was how good he looked in camp and wow he's just looked utterly terrible. Hopefully he get himself right mentally and can come back and help.

The promising thing is we have played hard, competed hard and much of the slop can be cleaned up with reps

And no dis respect to crush and fishy in particular.

That's just the recent reaction. I was reading all kinds of stuff in here all summer about how much DS was improving his shot. You want to pretend it wasn't happening, go ahead. Its Lucy pulling away the football, again and again.

No one is falling for the Lucy move, that's your ungodly bad assumption.

Most all players try to improve in the offseason, young players especially. Papers will write about it. We will read about it and want to see the results.

We can be disappointed, satisfied, and impressed by the outcome.

The only person here who is naive you, you made the assumption that EVERYONE is assuming everything they read will come true.

I'm pretty sure both Fish and Crush didn't expect DSJr to come back as an athlete Malcolm Brogden, but your OP did, and that's where your naivete comes in. And you kind of addressed it like EVERYONE constantly falls for this. Pure BS

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Vmart
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11/1/2019  12:42 PM
Welpee wrote:
Vmart wrote:Comparing Kobe and Giannis to DSJ absolutely a joke.
Who compared them? I am refuting his contention that hearing reports of people putting in work during the off-season should be ignored because the results never materalize on the court. Simply not true. And there are lesser players who can be referenced to counter that too (which I did wttt55ith Knox).

pI think every player should be viewed as "wait and see" regarding their off season improvement.

Also interesting how five games into the season people are quick to pass judgement. This is a 82 season you know.

I was merely stating a players will to work and improve not comparison head to head in statistics. Kobe was workout Psyco according to other players. We don’t know if DSJ is even remotely that committed. This is the first year where DSJ took the off season very seriously. He lost weight changed his shot and probably made matters worse with his shot. It maybe fair to say that all the work he put in might have had an adverse effect on his body hence the back issues.

Welpee
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11/1/2019  2:11 PM
Vmart wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Vmart wrote:Comparing Kobe and Giannis to DSJ absolutely a joke.
Who compared them? I am refuting his contention that hearing reports of people putting in work during the off-season should be ignored because the results never materalize on the court. Simply not true. And there are lesser players who can be referenced to counter that too (which I did wttt55ith Knox).

pI think every player should be viewed as "wait and see" regarding their off season improvement.

Also interesting how five games into the season people are quick to pass judgement. This is a 82 season you know.

I was merely stating a players will to work and improve not comparison head to head in statistics. Kobe was workout Psyco according to other players. We don’t know if DSJ is even remotely that committed. This is the first year where DSJ took the off season very seriously. He lost weight changed his shot and probably made matters worse with his shot. It maybe fair to say that all the work he put in might have had an adverse effect on his body hence the back issues.

Everybody is different. Some get it from day one. Some the light bulb comes on later. Some never get it. Some have to overcome issues first (i.e. Chris Mullin, Bernard King). It is also possible for somebody to work their butt off and never get past a certain level. Sometimes being overly obsessed can have an adverse affect. Like I said, everybody is different.

I have no idea where DSJ will end up on that spectrum. He appears to be a mess right now, physically and emotionally. Not sure anyone could've forecasted this. I just know I usually take these summer training videos (no matter who it is) with a grain of salt. Been burned too many times. Could mean great things ahead, could mean no change.

Panos
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11/1/2019  2:19 PM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

+10000
Afraid not. from the "What did you Expect" thread:

fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I expected a lot more out of DSJ. I expected more from Morris and Randle. I have been very pleased with RJ and Knox. If the Knicks had beaten the Nets I would be in a great place. I like the fight the team has shown for the most part.
this. DS is very disappointing. He was going to be the athletic spark, worked on the jumper, all we heard was how good he looked in camp and wow he's just looked utterly terrible. Hopefully he get himself right mentally and can come back and help.

The promising thing is we have played hard, competed hard and much of the slop can be cleaned up with reps

And no dis respect to crush and fishy in particular.

That's just the recent reaction. I was reading all kinds of stuff in here all summer about how much DS was improving his shot. You want to pretend it wasn't happening, go ahead. Its Lucy pulling away the football, again and again.

No one is falling for the Lucy move, that's your ungodly bad assumption.

Most all players try to improve in the offseason, young players especially. Papers will write about it. We will read about it and want to see the results.

We can be disappointed, satisfied, and impressed by the outcome.

The only person here who is naive you, you made the assumption that EVERYONE is assuming everything they read will come true.

I'm pretty sure both Fish and Crush didn't expect DSJr to come back as an athlete Malcolm Brogden, but your OP did, and that's where your naivete comes in. And you kind of addressed it like EVERYONE constantly falls for this. Pure BS

Show me where i said "everyone". I didn't.
This is addressed to whoever believed the hype. Not "everyone."

martin
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11/1/2019  2:24 PM
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

+10000
Afraid not. from the "What did you Expect" thread:

fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I expected a lot more out of DSJ. I expected more from Morris and Randle. I have been very pleased with RJ and Knox. If the Knicks had beaten the Nets I would be in a great place. I like the fight the team has shown for the most part.
this. DS is very disappointing. He was going to be the athletic spark, worked on the jumper, all we heard was how good he looked in camp and wow he's just looked utterly terrible. Hopefully he get himself right mentally and can come back and help.

The promising thing is we have played hard, competed hard and much of the slop can be cleaned up with reps

And no dis respect to crush and fishy in particular.

That's just the recent reaction. I was reading all kinds of stuff in here all summer about how much DS was improving his shot. You want to pretend it wasn't happening, go ahead. Its Lucy pulling away the football, again and again.

No one is falling for the Lucy move, that's your ungodly bad assumption.

Most all players try to improve in the offseason, young players especially. Papers will write about it. We will read about it and want to see the results.

We can be disappointed, satisfied, and impressed by the outcome.

The only person here who is naive you, you made the assumption that EVERYONE is assuming everything they read will come true.

I'm pretty sure both Fish and Crush didn't expect DSJr to come back as an athlete Malcolm Brogden, but your OP did, and that's where your naivete comes in. And you kind of addressed it like EVERYONE constantly falls for this. Pure BS

Show me where i said "everyone". I didn't.
This is addressed to whoever believed the hype. Not "everyone."

right, so we are back to a straw-man argument that falls flat.

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Panos
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11/1/2019  8:19 PM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

+10000
Afraid not. from the "What did you Expect" thread:

fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I expected a lot more out of DSJ. I expected more from Morris and Randle. I have been very pleased with RJ and Knox. If the Knicks had beaten the Nets I would be in a great place. I like the fight the team has shown for the most part.
this. DS is very disappointing. He was going to be the athletic spark, worked on the jumper, all we heard was how good he looked in camp and wow he's just looked utterly terrible. Hopefully he get himself right mentally and can come back and help.

The promising thing is we have played hard, competed hard and much of the slop can be cleaned up with reps

And no dis respect to crush and fishy in particular.

That's just the recent reaction. I was reading all kinds of stuff in here all summer about how much DS was improving his shot. You want to pretend it wasn't happening, go ahead. Its Lucy pulling away the football, again and again.

No one is falling for the Lucy move, that's your ungodly bad assumption.

Most all players try to improve in the offseason, young players especially. Papers will write about it. We will read about it and want to see the results.

We can be disappointed, satisfied, and impressed by the outcome.

The only person here who is naive you, you made the assumption that EVERYONE is assuming everything they read will come true.

I'm pretty sure both Fish and Crush didn't expect DSJr to come back as an athlete Malcolm Brogden, but your OP did, and that's where your naivete comes in. And you kind of addressed it like EVERYONE constantly falls for this. Pure BS

Show me where i said "everyone". I didn't.
This is addressed to whoever believed the hype. Not "everyone."
right, so we are back to a straw-man argument that falls flat.

My point is that summer workout reports are total BS and mean nothing. That's not a straw man argument however many times you want to say it.

martin
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11/1/2019  11:44 PM
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

+10000
Afraid not. from the "What did you Expect" thread:

fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I expected a lot more out of DSJ. I expected more from Morris and Randle. I have been very pleased with RJ and Knox. If the Knicks had beaten the Nets I would be in a great place. I like the fight the team has shown for the most part.
this. DS is very disappointing. He was going to be the athletic spark, worked on the jumper, all we heard was how good he looked in camp and wow he's just looked utterly terrible. Hopefully he get himself right mentally and can come back and help.

The promising thing is we have played hard, competed hard and much of the slop can be cleaned up with reps

And no dis respect to crush and fishy in particular.

That's just the recent reaction. I was reading all kinds of stuff in here all summer about how much DS was improving his shot. You want to pretend it wasn't happening, go ahead. Its Lucy pulling away the football, again and again.

No one is falling for the Lucy move, that's your ungodly bad assumption.

Most all players try to improve in the offseason, young players especially. Papers will write about it. We will read about it and want to see the results.

We can be disappointed, satisfied, and impressed by the outcome.

The only person here who is naive you, you made the assumption that EVERYONE is assuming everything they read will come true.

I'm pretty sure both Fish and Crush didn't expect DSJr to come back as an athlete Malcolm Brogden, but your OP did, and that's where your naivete comes in. And you kind of addressed it like EVERYONE constantly falls for this. Pure BS

Show me where i said "everyone". I didn't.
This is addressed to whoever believed the hype. Not "everyone."
right, so we are back to a straw-man argument that falls flat.

My point is that summer workout reports are total BS and mean nothing. That's not a straw man argument however many times you want to say it.

Yeah you right, it’s just so obvious that no one else would think to make a point of saying it out loud and try to call people out for being naive

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Allanfan20
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11/2/2019  8:56 AM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Sounds like OP is really broken up over this. He musta bought into it himself.

No one else bought into it, dude. Everyone had/has their eyes open

Total false narrative that people drank kool aid on idea DSJ would leap

Wishing on a prayer is no big deal

Take your straw-man argument elsewhere

+10000
Afraid not. from the "What did you Expect" thread:

fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I expected a lot more out of DSJ. I expected more from Morris and Randle. I have been very pleased with RJ and Knox. If the Knicks had beaten the Nets I would be in a great place. I like the fight the team has shown for the most part.
this. DS is very disappointing. He was going to be the athletic spark, worked on the jumper, all we heard was how good he looked in camp and wow he's just looked utterly terrible. Hopefully he get himself right mentally and can come back and help.

The promising thing is we have played hard, competed hard and much of the slop can be cleaned up with reps

And no dis respect to crush and fishy in particular.

That's just the recent reaction. I was reading all kinds of stuff in here all summer about how much DS was improving his shot. You want to pretend it wasn't happening, go ahead. Its Lucy pulling away the football, again and again.

No one is falling for the Lucy move, that's your ungodly bad assumption.

Most all players try to improve in the offseason, young players especially. Papers will write about it. We will read about it and want to see the results.

We can be disappointed, satisfied, and impressed by the outcome.

The only person here who is naive you, you made the assumption that EVERYONE is assuming everything they read will come true.

I'm pretty sure both Fish and Crush didn't expect DSJr to come back as an athlete Malcolm Brogden, but your OP did, and that's where your naivete comes in. And you kind of addressed it like EVERYONE constantly falls for this. Pure BS

Show me where i said "everyone". I didn't.
This is addressed to whoever believed the hype. Not "everyone."
right, so we are back to a straw-man argument that falls flat.

My point is that summer workout reports are total BS and mean nothing. That's not a straw man argument however many times you want to say it.

Yeah you right, it’s just so obvious that no one else would think to make a point of saying it out loud and try to call people out for being naive

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but I have been saying that for a really long time. I drank a little extra Frank kool-aid bc of the FIBA games but that was different.

Even training camp talk in Knicks-land is generally BS. It f’ing sucks.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Nalod
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11/2/2019  12:24 PM
On my Rainman obsession this morning who likes to quite Fiz or MIlls as saying things then somehow shocked the teams lack of execution.
Before this era we heard Melo say how he'll sacrifice his game to win. How he'll fit in with MDA before that. Lies? Not really, perhaps best intentions but execution is another story.
Fast forward to annual Summer league hype. Last year Knox was the messiah. We get all hyped. We get mad after. Iggy Braz looked good but now the Varsity comes back and he can't sniff the ball. Team don't win and fans get angry with Coach.
Speaking of that, his preaching on defense is being fulfilled. Some guys not playong because they don't play it as he wants. Last year was a lost cause after a while so let the kids run free. This year there is a higher standard.
"It all gets sorted on the court". I have said that many times. It means don't listen to words, just watch the game. Watch how The defense fuels fast breaks. Watch the ball flow and offense creations. Thats where progress is being made.
Welpee
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11/2/2019  6:58 PM
And some folks get off on being negative, love to be first with the negativity, and get a kick out of going into "I told you so" mode at the earliest possible moment. Being right means more than winning. I don't get it.
Summer Kiss of death, And your naivete

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