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How did some of these guys get into the NBA and can't shoot. Is the NBA watered down??
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Papabear
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10/31/2019  6:42 PM
Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

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blkexec
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10/31/2019  7:01 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

If only we had the culture that harness patience. Heading to the lottery again, isn't a bad thing.

Just goes to show you, doesn't matter what level of basketball you play, or any new corporate team environment. Any new team where have the team has been turned over, and the talent pool is fairly similar. You will have rough starts like this. Hopefully from this organized confusion of a roster we have, diamonds will come out like Portis maybe, or our young core group (RJ, Knox, Mitch). Knox and RJ and Mitch look like they just scratching the surface.

Add another lottery? Or Add a superstar? We never seem to get this right!

I dont know....As long as those guys I mentioned continues to shine, it's been a successful season.
RJ, Knox, Mitch....Along with Trier and DSJ. Even for trade purposes.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
martin
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10/31/2019  7:34 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

Remember back when kids actually stayed in college for 2 or 3 or 4 years?

And worked on fundamentals instead of dunking and crossovers

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technomaster
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10/31/2019  7:49 PM
I think a funny issue with the NBA game now is that there's so much focus around hitting the 3pt shot that players who might actually be fantastic with a mid-range game are being coached not to take it. I bet players like Dwyane Wade shoot 10%+ higher from 15-18ft range vs behind the arc. They need that shot to warm up to the 3pt shot.

I sometimes wonder how some of the all-time greats like Jordan, Dr. J - would they struggle because they didn't have reliable jumpers from deep?

Arbitrarily, let's take the 1992 dream team members. The value of shooters that can put the ball on the floor a bit would be elite (Bird, Mullin, Stockton). None of the centers were elite shooters (save perhaps Ewing - tho Ewing didn't step out to 3 often). Karl Malone might be limited in today's game. Not super explosive, his power game and lack of ball handling would be exposed.

Drexler and Pippen might make it as defensive specialists that can run the break and finish, facilitate on offense. Sort of along the line of Draymond Green. Or Frank Ntilikina on steroids. :)

Jordan would be criticized the way Carmelo Anthony has been - ball stopper, takes inefficient shots. His saving grace would be that he draws fouls on offense, and he'd still be an elite defender.

Magic might be like Bobby Simmons. :)

Laettner would be Frank Kaminsky.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Jmpasq
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11/1/2019  7:29 AM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

Yes there are way to many teams. The league should contract at least 6 teams. It will never happen but there is just not enough good players

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Jmpasq
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11/1/2019  7:32 AM
martin wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

Remember back when kids actually stayed in college for 2 or 3 or 4 years?

And worked on fundamentals instead of dunking and crossovers


With the rule changes coming maybe some of the 1 and done college players will stay longer.
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
jrodmc
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11/1/2019  8:28 AM
FIBA smoke and mirrors.
Vmart
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11/1/2019  8:36 AM
The three point line has made the game unwatchable at time. Players jacking up shots without a care. Possession are valued over quality of possession. Shooting is down because of the three point shot. Some of the players shouldn’t even be thinking about taking one but 35% three point shooter are encouraged to take the shot on a regular basis.
OldFan
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11/1/2019  9:01 AM
Vmart wrote:The three point line has made the game unwatchable at time. Players jacking up shots without a care. Possession are valued over quality of possession. Shooting is down because of the three point shot. Some of the players shouldn’t even be thinking about taking one but 35% three point shooter are encouraged to take the shot on a regular basis.

I agree the 3 pt shot has had unintended consequences that have detracted from the game. The best offensive play in basketball is now getting fouled taking a 3 pointer. Followed by a high percentage three point shooter taking a long jumper. Harden plays the style of play that makes for an efficient scorer into todays nba - take the three pointer or get to the hole

The beauty of the game used to be a team moving the ball until they got a shot that a teammate had a high percentage of making - but now the open 10 - 20 ft shot is devalued and that part of the court has become a bit of a no man's land.
Nalod
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11/1/2019  11:14 AM
about 25% of the NBA international players. After the Dream team the NBA gravitated to the international style game. Not the slug fest 1990's many of us admired. Low scoring games, Defensive battles, hand checking.......Jordan getting every phucking call!!!!!
Then the USA teams started losing......

Then the NBA opened up the game which for better or worse promotes excitement and ratings. Shooting became a premium.
There are more teams world wide and the game has never been more popular with allstar players from all over.
Is it watered down or is it more competitive? Is the GLeague really developing players as was hoped?
Look at Jimmer. The kid can shoot amazingly, but his defense and penetration skills to the rim are not up to par. He can't stick in the league. Todays PG "Stars" can do it all. But shooting is apparently not the priority prerequisite. Giannis is a good example. MVP.
Not saying he is not deserving. Draw your own conclusion. His athletic prowess and potential kept him in the league while he developed.
BOL BOL, thought by many to be a top lottery draw. Nalod on record saying otherwise. Im not that smart, the kid is not an athlete. His is tall, and can shoot. He now in the Gleague.

I don't believe the talent is watered down given the sheer number of players world wide. I think its the NBA penchant to promote a game based on athletic prowess producing a fast game of high scoring vs. old school fundamentals. As I said, the ratings say its better. The ratings drive it.
HofstraBBall
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11/1/2019  11:14 AM
martin wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

Remember back when kids actually stayed in college for 2 or 3 or 4 years?

And worked on fundamentals instead of dunking and crossovers

Think this hits the more important point. Never had a problem with young players not coming out of college struggling with shooting. It takes years to gain enough confidence and experience. The problem today is that you see so many with issues in basic mechanics. Which, to your point, has to do with having enough time at the developmental levels. If you look as some of these young guys, Smith as an example, it is incredible that they made an NBA squad with such a major hitch in their mechanics. As we have seen, these are not things that easily go away.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
martin
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11/1/2019  11:18 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

Remember back when kids actually stayed in college for 2 or 3 or 4 years?

And worked on fundamentals instead of dunking and crossovers

Think this hits the more important point. Never had a problem with young players not coming out of college struggling with shooting. It takes years to gain enough confidence and experience. The problem today is that you see so many with issues in basic mechanics. Which, to your point, has to do with having enough time at the developmental levels. If you look as some of these young guys, Smith as an example, it is incredible that they made an NBA squad with such a major hitch in their mechanics. As we have seen, these are not things that easily go away.

Yes. Most of these guys are just so physically dominant at the high school level that there is no real need to work on fundamentals unless a coach or parent or guardian is forcing the issue. And then the elite of this crop will dominate to different degrees in the first year or so of college, and the ensuing financial benefits far, far outweigh the decision to not declare for the NBA.

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NYKBocker
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11/1/2019  11:26 AM
I blame the AAU culture. I currently have a 15 year old playing in the AAU and these games are all about ISOs, dunks and 3s. There is no mid range game whatsoever. Everyone is shooting 3s and the coaches tell them to keep shooting even kids that should not be taking these 3s in a game. Team ball is non-existent. Now, everyone is trying to do the Harden move to take 3s. It's disgusting.
Nalod
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11/1/2019  11:29 AM
Pascal Siakim, takes very few 3pt shots but a great athlete doing so many things.
His shooting gets better and better. Good example of athlete first and shooting second.
Rare to take a shooter and make him into an athlete second. JJ Reddick had the stroke but had to get faster, quicker,, etc. He did.
Seth Curry can shoot. Brunson can shoot. They are not stars. Seth had to get quicker. Brunson was a second round pick? Kid is an outright baller! Not NBA body. Kyle Lowrey put the work in. Ray Felton always had the talent. Khalid El-Amin. Too short and not fast enough.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/siakapa01.html
Chandler
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11/1/2019  11:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2019  11:42 AM
I know i'll get **** for this but some of you sound to be longing for Phil Jackson and his desire for long players who could defend, shoot, dribble and play smart and not necessarily jump out of the gym

on to a less contentious topic, it is crazy how many lottery picks can't consistently hit an open shot

Back in the day when Ainge was playing, he used to say the celts would hit like 70-80% in shoot arounds.

If i had better internet skills i'd like to search for a modern statistic that has FG% for wide open looks.

Update: there's actually a fair amount on this, and the numbers are better than I expected. It must be some form of psychological selection bias that the missed open shots stand out more.

E.g., who knew that the Knicks were better than the rockets hitting open 3s a few years ago (Rockets much better on 3's overall)?

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/wide-open-3s-and-ranking-how-each-nba-team-fared-at-making-defenses-pay/

(5)(5)
Uptown
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11/1/2019  12:03 PM
technomaster wrote:I think a funny issue with the NBA game now is that there's so much focus around hitting the 3pt shot that players who might actually be fantastic with a mid-range game are being coached not to take it. I bet players like Dwyane Wade shoot 10%+ higher from 15-18ft range vs behind the arc. They need that shot to warm up to the 3pt shot.

I sometimes wonder how some of the all-time greats like Jordan, Dr. J - would they struggle because they didn't have reliable jumpers from deep?

Arbitrarily, let's take the 1992 dream team members. The value of shooters that can put the ball on the floor a bit would be elite (Bird, Mullin, Stockton). None of the centers were elite shooters (save perhaps Ewing - tho Ewing didn't step out to 3 often). Karl Malone might be limited in today's game. Not super explosive, his power game and lack of ball handling would be exposed.

Drexler and Pippen might make it as defensive specialists that can run the break and finish, facilitate on offense. Sort of along the line of Draymond Green. Or Frank Ntilikina on steroids. :)

Jordan would be criticized the way Carmelo Anthony has been - ball stopper, takes inefficient shots. His saving grace would be that he draws fouls on offense, and he'd still be an elite defender.

Magic might be like Bobby Simmons. :)

Laettner would be Frank Kaminsky.
HofstraBBall
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11/1/2019  12:57 PM
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

Remember back when kids actually stayed in college for 2 or 3 or 4 years?

And worked on fundamentals instead of dunking and crossovers

Think this hits the more important point. Never had a problem with young players not coming out of college struggling with shooting. It takes years to gain enough confidence and experience. The problem today is that you see so many with issues in basic mechanics. Which, to your point, has to do with having enough time at the developmental levels. If you look as some of these young guys, Smith as an example, it is incredible that they made an NBA squad with such a major hitch in their mechanics. As we have seen, these are not things that easily go away.

Yes. Most of these guys are just so physically dominant at the high school level that there is no real need to work on fundamentals unless a coach or parent or guardian is forcing the issue. And then the elite of this crop will dominate to different degrees in the first year or so of college, and the ensuing financial benefits far, far outweigh the decision to not declare for the NBA.

True. I guess its the hope/fear, from so many GM's. that they have an opportunity to draft/miis out on the next LBJ, Kobe, MJ. All guys that were not exactly great outside shooters at the outset. But as we know, the probability of hitting that jackpot is not very realistic.

Side note: will be curious to see how allowing college athletes to make some money (still TBD) will effect the tenure of most college athletes. Think this will help the developmental time of some players that are clearly not ready for the Pro level.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
knicks1248
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11/1/2019  3:09 PM
martin wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

Remember back when kids actually stayed in college for 2 or 3 or 4 years?

And worked on fundamentals instead of dunking and crossovers

AAU took over

ES
Nalod
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11/1/2019  3:17 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

As I watch some of these teams play (especially The Knicks)They can't shoot also fumbling the ball with turnovers. They don't resemble a pro basketball team. Could it be too many teams or the kids are comming out of college too soon.Sloppy ball handeling and they repeat it over and over again and again.If this keeps up the Knicks will be headed to the lottery again.

Remember back when kids actually stayed in college for 2 or 3 or 4 years?

And worked on fundamentals instead of dunking and crossovers

AAU took over


Below find the full list of international players on 2019-20 opening-night rosters
(active and inactive):

Angola Bruno Fernando Atlanta Hawks
Australia Aron Baynes Phoenix Suns
Australia Jonah Bolden Philadelphia 76ers
Australia Ryan Broekhoff Dallas Mavericks
Australia Matthew Dellavedova Cleveland Cavaliers
Australia Dante Exum Utah Jazz
Australia Joe Ingles Utah Jazz
Australia Kyrie Irving Brooklyn Nets
Australia Patty Mills San Antonio Spurs
Australia Ben Simmons Philadelphia 76ers
Austria Jakob Poeltl San Antonio Spurs
Bahamas Buddy Hield Sacramento Kings
Bahamas Deandre Ayton* Phoenix Suns
Bosnia and Herzegovina Dzanan Musa Brooklyn Nets
Bosnia and Herzegovina Jusuf Nurkić Portland Trail Blazers
Brazil Bruno Caboclo* Memphis Grizzlies
Brazil Cristiano Felicio Chicago Bulls
Brazil Raul Neto Philadelphia 76ers
Brazil Nene Houston Rockets
Cameroon Joel Embiid* Philadelphia 76ers
Cameroon Pascal Siakam* Toronto Raptors
Canada Nickeil Alexander-Walker New Orleans Pelicans
Canada RJ Barrett* New York Knicks
Canada Khem Birch Orlando Magic
Canada Chris Boucher Toronto Raptors
Canada Ignas Brazdeikis* New York Knicks
Canada Dillon Brooks Memphis Grizzlies
Canada Brandon Clarke Memphis Grizzlies
Canada Cory Joseph Sacramento Kings
Canada Mfiondu Kabengele LA Clippers
Canada Trey Lyles San Antonio Spurs
Canada Jamal Murray* Denver Nuggets
Canada Kelly Olynyk* Miami Heat
Canada Dwight Powell Dallas Mavericks
Canada Tristan Thompson Cleveland Cavaliers
Canada Andrew Wiggins Minnesota Timberwolves
Canada Shai Gilgeous-Alexander* Oklahoma City Thunder
Croatia Luka Šamanić* San Antonio Spurs
Croatia Dragan Bender* Milwaukee Bucks
Croatia Bojan Bogdanović Utah Jazz
Croatia Mario Hezonja Portland Trail Blazers
Croatia Dario Šarić* Phoenix Suns
Croatia Ante Žižić* Cleveland Cavaliers
Croatia Ivica Zubac LA Clippers
Czech Republic Tomáš Satoranský* Chicago Bulls
Democratic Republic of the Congo Bismack Biyombo Charlotte Hornets
Democratic Republic of the Congo Emmanuel Mudiay Utah Jazz
Dominican Republic Al Horford Philadelphia 76ers
Egypt Abdel Nader Oklahoma City Thunder
Finland Lauri Markkanen* Chicago Bulls
France Nicolas Batum* Charlotte Hornets
France Sekou Doumbouya* Detroit Pistons
France Evan Fournier Orlando Magic
France Rudy Gobert Utah Jazz
France Ian Mahinmi Washington Wizards
France Frank Ntilikina* New York Knicks
France Vincent Poirier Boston Celtics
France Élie Okobo Phoenix Suns
Georgia Goga Bitadze* Indiana Pacers
Germany Isaac Bonga* Washington Wizards
Germany Maxi Kleber Dallas Mavericks
Germany Dennis Schröder Oklahoma City Thunder
Germany Daniel Theis Boston Celtics
Germany Moritz Wagner Washington Wizards
Greece Giannis Antetokounmpo Milwaukee Bucks
Greece Thanasis Antetokounmpo Milwaukee Bucks
Haiti Skal Labissière Portland Trail Blazers
Italy Marco Belinelli* San Antonio Spurs
Italy Danilo Gallinari* Oklahoma City Thunder
Italy Nicolò Melli New Orleans Pelicans
Japan Rui Hachimura* Washington Wizards
Latvia Davis Bertans Washington Wizards
Latvia Kristaps Porziņģis Dallas Mavericks
Latvia Rodions Kurucs Brooklyn Nets
Lithuania Domantas Sabonis Indiana Pacers
Lithuania Jonas Valančiūnas* Memphis Grizzlies
Mali Cheick Diallo Phoenix Suns
Montenegro Nikola Vučević Orlando Magic
New Zealand Steven Adams Oklahoma City Thunder
Nigeria Josh Okogie Minnesota Timberwolves
Puerto Rico J.J. Barea Dallas Mavericks
Republic of the Congo Serge Ibaka Toronto Raptors
Senegal Gorgui Dieng* Minnesota Timberwolves
Serbia Nemanja Bjelica Sacramento Kings
Serbia Bogdan Bogdanović Sacramento Kings
Serbia Marko Gudurić Memphis Grizzlies
Serbia Nikola Jokić Denver Nuggets
Serbia Boban Marjanović Dallas Mavericks
Serbia Alen Smailagić Golden State Warriors
Slovenia Vlatko Čančar Denver Nuggets
Slovenia Goran Dragić Miami Heat
Slovenia Luka Dončić Dallas Mavericks
South Sudan Thon Maker* Detroit Pistons
South Sudan Wenyen Gabriel Sacramento Kings
Spain Pau Gasol Portland Trail Blazers
Spain Marc Gasol* Toronto Raptors
Spain Juancho Hernangómez Denver Nuggets
Spain Willy Hernangómez* Charlotte Hornets
Spain Ricky Rubio Phoenix Suns
Switzerland Clint Capela Houston Rockets
Switzerland Thabo Sefolosha Houston Rockets
Turkey Ersan Ilyasova Milwaukee Bucks
Turkey Enes Kanter* Boston Celtics
Turkey Furkan Korkmaz Philadelphia 76ers
Turkey Cedi Osman Cleveland Cavaliers
Ukraine Alex Len Atlanta Hawks
Ukraine Svi Mykhailiuk Detroit Pistons
United Kingdom OG Anunoby Toronto Raptors

*Former Basketball Without Borders camper
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How did some of these guys get into the NBA and can't shoot. Is the NBA watered down??
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