fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:Looking at the make-up of the roster, I think the F.O and Fiz have two main objectives in play for the 1st half of the season. Last year, it was obvious that winning was not a priority as we were clearly tanking for a shot at Zion or at least a to 3 pick. Striking out on Zion hurt, but the losing culture that we are mired in for years hurt our brand even more.

So the first objective this year is to establish a competitive culture and show that winning is the top priority this year. For the first couple of months, I think the Knicks will try and push to remain in the playoff hunt. That means the 1-year-deal vets will soak up a lot of mins. Morris, Taj, Ellington, Peyton, etc. at the expense of some of our younger guys, (Zo, Dotson,)

The 2nd objective, I believe is to pump up the trade value of the guys we signed this summer. Morris is an obvious trade chip for a playoff contender, as is Ellington's ability to shoot the rock. The problem, as I mentioned earlier, is none of these guys figure to be a part of our future, while the guys who figure into our future will not get the development time that they need. The mentality of todays athlete is not of patience but to flee or leave once adversity arises. Can't imagine, Zo, Dot, DSJ, Frank, etc will be content riding the bench or getting sporadic mins while the F.O and Fiz execute their plan.

I get the idea of creating a competitive culture where the best man wins the mins, but I've been coaching HS and MS ball for 10 years! The mentality of these kids is different. If they dont get the mins they think they deserve, they will transfer of walk in the summer in a heartbeat.

Looking at the core of young players, at some point I would love to see the following lineup get major mins together:

5. Mitch
4. Knox
3. RJ
2. Zo
1. Frank or DSJ

We probably wont see this combo until after the trade deadline. Not saying all of them are starters on a legit playoff team, but at least they can be a part of the core as move into the future. Unfortunately, we have a few options that need to be picked up and 1 or 2 of the players above may be gone come July.

someone who gets it. Thank you.

That is different from saying that its going to happen, but this plan strikes me as incredibly simple and easy to see, yet some here really cant grasp this. There are pitfalls with this plan, just like there are with any plan. However they are an important part of the learning process as well, starting with Fizdale and this coaching staff. Can they establish a culture and style of play by leaning on the vets and keep people reasonably happy? We'll see. This notion that the young players are thrown under the bus is typical here but Im glad some posters can see the forest through the trees.

Knicks *should* be able to hang in games, but I don't see us with great options for finishing. Morris will get some shots out of respect. Randle and RJ will get chances by opportunity and hopefully give us some feel good wins.

Knicks *should* be in a position to both sell and buy at the deadline. We have short term deals for teams looking to unload and include an asset. We have some young players and extra picks if a core piece becomes available. Everyone will be talking to the Warriors about Russell. There will be other things out there.

My only issue with this plan is Fiz's ability to keep the morale of the guys up. They need to be made aware of the vision and know that they are a part of the immediate and long term future. But, it could backfire as most of today's athletes want instant gratification. Kenny Smith said it best: “I would say 12 guys on their roster will say ‘I should play 25 minutes,’ ” Smith said. “Six of those guys are not going to play 25 minutes and they’re going to look at it as, well, why not? There aren’t many guys on that team who don’t feel they should play 25 minutes.’’

Zo is more skilled than Ellington, IMO, and I'm sure he believes he is too...Same with DSJ and Frank when they sit and watch Payton soak up mins... We shall see.

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:Very nice take but ai would say rather than the player being impatient the Knicks as an organization is very impatient. They are cooking up one thousand and one ideas just to be competitive at the expense of throwing the young players under the bus. In the end it’s the Knicks who chase after the fools gold. The syndrome of grass is green on the other side kicks this team in the ass time and time and again. We as fans always said I don’t mind them losing as long as the they are rebuilding. I don’t believe it to be true with the Knicks.

I think they are rebuilding, to an extent, but its not a traditional one....We did lose our biggest rebuilding chip in KP, but that was for reasons I believe began with the previous F.O. Also, this plan can backfire as I mentioned in a previous post as some of the young players can get disgruntled. An example of a full blown rebuild that is being done correctly is what the Hawks are doing.

They've collected picks over the years which allowed them to make two lotto picks this year to add to Young, a lotto pick from last year. They shed dead weight salaries in Bazemore which will allow Reddish to come in and get mins and experience. The vets they brought in (Vince, Parker and Turner) will back-up and support the Rooks. I don't see any issues developing in ATl.

We can see some issues here especially when you consider that Knox, Zo, DSJ, Dot and Frank got a ton of mins last year. Now, a few of them may go from starter mins, to not playing at all for a few games this year, especially the 1st half of the season. Again, Fiz has his work cut out for him trying to keep the morale up and selling the vision to the young Knicks.

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:Very nice take but ai would say rather than the player being impatient the Knicks as an organization is very impatient. They are cooking up one thousand and one ideas just to be competitive at the expense of throwing the young players under the bus. In the end it’s the Knicks who chase after the fools gold. The syndrome of grass is green on the other side kicks this team in the ass time and time and again. We as fans always said I don’t mind them losing as long as the they are rebuilding. I don’t believe it to be true with the Knicks.

I think they are rebuilding, to an extent, but its not a traditional one....We did lose our biggest rebuilding chip in KP, but that was for reasons I believe began with the previous F.O. Also, this plan can backfire as I mentioned in a previous post as some of the young players can get disgruntled. An example of a full blown rebuild that is being done correctly is what the Hawks are doing.

They've collected picks over the years which allowed them to make two lotto picks this year to add to Young, a lotto pick from last year. They shed dead weight salaries in Bazemore which will allow Reddish to come in and get mins and experience. The vets they brought in (Vince, Parker and Turner) will back-up and support the Rooks. I don't see any issues developing in ATl.

We can see some issues here especially when you consider that Knox, Zo, DSJ, Dot and Frank got a ton of mins last year. Now, a few of them may go from starter mins, to not playing at all for a few games this year, especially the 1st half of the season. Again, Fiz has his work cut out for him trying to keep the morale up and selling the vision to the young Knicks.

Great points Atlanta has a very like able team. I kept thinking last night are the Pels going to move one of Holiday, Ball or Walker and is there anything they could do to get one of them. I am pretty disappointed with DSJ so far. I was hoping he would have a breakout season. He still can but the great summer work and great camp haven't shown up on the court so far.

I dont think the Pels move any of their guards...Ball still has a lot to prove, particularly shooting and being a threat in the half court set. Holiday is a nice vet to have next to the young guards. Walker is a sniper off the bench so I think the trio works for now.

I hear you on DSJ, but he needs more than 2 games to get into game shape and get his legs under him. He missed a could of gimmes, that he will make in a few weeks. Not too concerned with him, yet. Think he just needs to see the ball go in a few times and he will be fine...

Nalod wrote:How do we pump up the value of players?

Pump up?! Maybe wrong choice of words. How about ample playing time and allow them to showcase their skill sets? A shooter like Ellington can definitely be valuable to a playoff team looking to add a floor spacer. Morris will be valuable to most playoff teams who need an experienced wing.

Swishfm3 wrote:I am probably the only Knick fan who doesn't want Morris to go anywhere. Always been a fan of the Morris twins since their Kansas days.

Hope he is here for the long haul

I like him too...But, he's on a one year deal so the odds are that he is gone by the trade deadline or the summer by the very least. IMO, RJ's best position will be @ SF and Morris or Randle will need to be moved in order to make space for him.