GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Kemet wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Frank looks a litte faster, but the clips Ive been seeing look like Frank did his rookie year. Hope to see more than that this upcoming season. Has too much competition for minutes, too look more or less the same.

I don't see where his minutes will come from, unless there is and injury.

He is flat out not better than payton or DSJ at the point, can't shot better then RJ, Dotson, Trier or Ellington to be a SG, and just not strong enough to play SF.

It's not just his shooting that's the problem, infact, that really is the least of his problems. Fiz "suppose system" is base on everything Frank doesn't do well..heavy ISO, high pace, and 3 point shooting

I don't care if defends like Bowen, Artest or GP combine, if he can't push the pace or knock down open 3's consistently, he is french toast.

From every clip i seen of Frank in the NBA and overseas, that is just not the way he plays basketball, not the way he was taught to play basketball at a young age, and not the role he is comfortable in.

He is not a physical or finesse player, he is a fundamental system oriented player that will do the little things. That works on a top heavy roster with multiple stars and scorers.

Most NBA role players are 10x better than the talent overseas(see jimmer), frank is still a minor role player against much lesser talent

The NBA league has become as soft as the over-sea teams.
However, during the NBA midseason some of the playoff teams does add a little hard-knocks in their performance.

Frank and DSJ were not a Top-5 pick in the draft, both players are equally a work in progress having a raw potential to be star role-players in the future.
As a rookie PG Frank did well coming off the bench behind (veteran) starter PG-Jarrett Jack and SG-Courtney Lee. The two guards were not star players, but they were 9 and 11 yr NBA veterans.
Head-coach Hornacek's system and game substitution did have a lot of flaws, especially on the defensive-end, but Hornacek's coaching-system were a 100% percent better than the so-call system head-coach David Fizdale implemented in the following season.

In Frank and Dotson's 2nd season on the Knicks …
Mills/Perry switch head-coaches and provided the Knicks team a much lower level head-coach than they had in Hornacek in David Fizdale.
Plus Mills/Perry provided very low IQ guards to the Knicks 2018-19 roster in (Mudiay, Burke, Baker, and Timmy) whom skills as a 30 minute starter are only useful or valuable in the G-league.
Mills/Perry did not bother to add a decent NBA role-player at the PF position nor at the SF position on the 2018-19 roster to tandem in the front-court with a double-double center Kanter .. which resulted in the majority of Knick-players wanting to be traded before midseason.

The Knicks Program for young drafted players has always been questionable, after the back-court tandem of Sugar Ray Richardson and Ray Williams in the 1980's.
In the 2019 offseason the Knicks added 9 new players to the roster!
In the 2017 offseason the Knicks added 9 new players to the roster!
In the 2016 offseason the Knicks added 9 new players to the roster!

Majority of players wanted to be traded? Kanter had no future with team and wanted to play for his next contract. Knick could not trade him and did not even as for him to give up money. His Played great in Portland and went from earring 14mm per, to 5mm per on a two year deal with Boston.
CLee never asked for trade nor did Hardaway. KP sure as hell did. There were rumblings about Frank but he did come public and said he never asked for one. It’s possible his agent wanted him to get minutes. Who else wanted out?

Hornacek is a good coach and a bit old school grumpy. I have no issues with his hiring or firing. Given the roster and situation I’m not convinced he’d done much better than Fiz and perhaps would have lost his team. Fiz had them playing hard and there were few blow outs. I’m not going to defend 17 win and say he did a good job. Knicks have a process/plan that transcends one season. Fiz has a 5 year deal, was in year one, Perry in year two. The original plan was to clear cap space for one “star” to play with KP and build around them with youth. Plan B was open space for two stars. The way things played out one might commend the team for not panicking and moved on to plan “C”.

If you can’t find any form of interest in this squad and in developing yoot perhaps your in for a rough time. Some of us find the process interesting. Some are results oriented. That happens too.
Never in our history except for the late 60’s was the team this stacked with potential. Even then Bradley who sat for two years after being drafted (Imagine that today!) was “too slow” and was a “bust”, Phenom Cazzie Russell had knee issues and really never fulfilled his star promise and Phil Jax a valuable scoring forward had major back surgery which was often a career killer than. He reinvented himself. From all that failure became perhaps one of the greatest NBA teams ever.
My point is the future is wide open but hardly certain. My thought is some of these guys might be great and some won’t. Law of averages. We have more “Potential” because the sheer number of young guys. Yes,, some won’t pan out.

Right now RJ, Denis, Mitchell and Knox might be special. Denis is the old man at 21. Frank Just turned 21 last month. I’m not seeing “special” with him but the intrigue of him turning the corner is something I will watch. I’ll watch his French team if I can. Throw in Iggy, thats 6 players under 21.
Trier and Dotson have limited upside given their ages. That not a bad thing. This young team will fight it out for minutes and their careers. The new guys are not stars, but good role players and proven commodities.
I dont’ care about the past. It does not factor into the future. Its not a question of faith, its math. We need just two players to grow up and be special. Can’t say who they are. I’m good with that.

ESPN just hired Mark Jackson to a multi-year contract for the upcoming season ..
The Clippers just hired Lue as Doc's head-assistant coach.
The Knicks having a majority of young-core players again for the 2nd season .. should have invested in one or two of the many unemployed head-coaches in the offseason to be Fizdale's top assistant-coach throughout the 2019-20 season.

Phil selected Frank's pass-first performance in the draft .. knowing shoot-first Melo & Rose & KP would be on the upcoming season roster.
Fizdale's 2nd season job in training-camp and pre-season are to set Frank up in a hustling out-scoring 2nd-unit lineup to start the first 6 minutes of the 2nd quarter. Any of the two above mention head coaches could put together a winning lineup (from our young & vet roster) to start the 2nd quarter having Frank at the point.
I'm just hoping Fizdale let 5 yr PG-Payton & 10 yr SG-Ellington be the starter back-court throughout the season. What I don't want to see in the upcoming season having a lot of 2 yr contract players are a different experiment every other game in player substitution in the rotation.

It's so rare to see a young NBA player having a very limited role on an international team.

If he is only getting 15 to 18 minutes playing on a roster with far less talent. How many minutes should he be getting on NBA roster with 10x better talent.

This is why i was completely lost as to why frank never got sent to the G league.

Part of me feels like the FO was concern about him going down there and still looking suspect against lesser talent, pretty much killing any value he had altogether.

His last game he was said to be damn near perfect. Team went up by 22 pts from when they put him in the game to when they took him out. Was 3-3 for 8 pts, caused havoc defensively, ran a smooth efficient offense at point. Yet he only got 13mins still. There was a good amount of garbage time and Frank didn’t get those garbage mins. Which would be the case if he was considered a back end of the rotation guy. Especially when playing well. So him getting low mins comes off as more strategic than due to lack of performance or role. These are not not preliminary games so maybe that’s it?

He got 21mins a game as a rookie. Why would they be concerned about him playing poorly in the G league if they were willing to play him 21mins a game as a pro? He also started the season his sophomore at SF and then PG. Why would they start him in an NBA lineup if they were concerned he would underperform in the G league?

I'm only suggesting that could have been a reason, i'm not confirming that. But the way he a has struggled to play at the NBA level should be reason enough to give him some minor league action to see how he performs.

My conclusion of frank thus far is that he is not a guy that looks to score or push the pace, So if that's the kind of guard that you are looking for then look elsewhere, but if you want a slow down methodical, half court player, who doesn't take any risk, than franks your guy.

We both have a very good Idea how FIZ wants to play, and it aint the frank way..

The main thing that has gotten Frank pulled has been him not being able to consistently hit the open jumpers. When he shot 45 fg% & 50% from 3 for the pre season. Fizz started him.

Believe it was also about passing up opportunities.

But then he wouldn’t have started in the first place. At the same time if he was knocking down open jumpers consistently. Then his confidence in taking them would expand. Goes hand in hand.

Frank has put up a handful of good scoring games. His game never seemed to expand from there. IMO it was due to a return to looking to pass, even when he had as good a look at the rim as his teammates.

Got to the point where he was getting looked off. They knew he was just going to pass the ball anyway.

The first time Fizz pulled and benched him was when he was 0-3 with 2 TO's within the first 5 mins of the game vs the Magic. Before this game he averged 8.2 attempts on 25.51mins per game in 13 games. 3.8 three attempts per game. 7.8pts per game on 35fg% 30% from 3. The attempts seem decent he needed to be at 44 or 45% & 37% from 3 tho.

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Kemet wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Frank looks a litte faster, but the clips Ive been seeing look like Frank did his rookie year. Hope to see more than that this upcoming season. Has too much competition for minutes, too look more or less the same.

I don't see where his minutes will come from, unless there is and injury.

He is flat out not better than payton or DSJ at the point, can't shot better then RJ, Dotson, Trier or Ellington to be a SG, and just not strong enough to play SF.

It's not just his shooting that's the problem, infact, that really is the least of his problems. Fiz "suppose system" is base on everything Frank doesn't do well..heavy ISO, high pace, and 3 point shooting

I don't care if defends like Bowen, Artest or GP combine, if he can't push the pace or knock down open 3's consistently, he is french toast.

From every clip i seen of Frank in the NBA and overseas, that is just not the way he plays basketball, not the way he was taught to play basketball at a young age, and not the role he is comfortable in.

He is not a physical or finesse player, he is a fundamental system oriented player that will do the little things. That works on a top heavy roster with multiple stars and scorers.

Most NBA role players are 10x better than the talent overseas(see jimmer), frank is still a minor role player against much lesser talent

The NBA league has become as soft as the over-sea teams.
However, during the NBA midseason some of the playoff teams does add a little hard-knocks in their performance.

Frank and DSJ were not a Top-5 pick in the draft, both players are equally a work in progress having a raw potential to be star role-players in the future.
As a rookie PG Frank did well coming off the bench behind (veteran) starter PG-Jarrett Jack and SG-Courtney Lee. The two guards were not star players, but they were 9 and 11 yr NBA veterans.
Head-coach Hornacek's system and game substitution did have a lot of flaws, especially on the defensive-end, but Hornacek's coaching-system were a 100% percent better than the so-call system head-coach David Fizdale implemented in the following season.

In Frank and Dotson's 2nd season on the Knicks …
Mills/Perry switch head-coaches and provided the Knicks team a much lower level head-coach than they had in Hornacek in David Fizdale.
Plus Mills/Perry provided very low IQ guards to the Knicks 2018-19 roster in (Mudiay, Burke, Baker, and Timmy) whom skills as a 30 minute starter are only useful or valuable in the G-league.
Mills/Perry did not bother to add a decent NBA role-player at the PF position nor at the SF position on the 2018-19 roster to tandem in the front-court with a double-double center Kanter .. which resulted in the majority of Knick-players wanting to be traded before midseason.

The Knicks Program for young drafted players has always been questionable, after the back-court tandem of Sugar Ray Richardson and Ray Williams in the 1980's.
In the 2019 offseason the Knicks added 9 new players to the roster!
In the 2017 offseason the Knicks added 9 new players to the roster!
In the 2016 offseason the Knicks added 9 new players to the roster!

Majority of players wanted to be traded? Kanter had no future with team and wanted to play for his next contract. Knick could not trade him and did not even as for him to give up money. His Played great in Portland and went from earring 14mm per, to 5mm per on a two year deal with Boston.
CLee never asked for trade nor did Hardaway. KP sure as hell did. There were rumblings about Frank but he did come public and said he never asked for one. It’s possible his agent wanted him to get minutes. Who else wanted out?

Hornacek is a good coach and a bit old school grumpy. I have no issues with his hiring or firing. Given the roster and situation I’m not convinced he’d done much better than Fiz and perhaps would have lost his team. Fiz had them playing hard and there were few blow outs. I’m not going to defend 17 win and say he did a good job. Knicks have a process/plan that transcends one season. Fiz has a 5 year deal, was in year one, Perry in year two. The original plan was to clear cap space for one “star” to play with KP and build around them with youth. Plan B was open space for two stars. The way things played out one might commend the team for not panicking and moved on to plan “C”.

If you can’t find any form of interest in this squad and in developing yoot perhaps your in for a rough time. Some of us find the process interesting. Some are results oriented. That happens too.
Never in our history except for the late 60’s was the team this stacked with potential. Even then Bradley who sat for two years after being drafted (Imagine that today!) was “too slow” and was a “bust”, Phenom Cazzie Russell had knee issues and really never fulfilled his star promise and Phil Jax a valuable scoring forward had major back surgery which was often a career killer than. He reinvented himself. From all that failure became perhaps one of the greatest NBA teams ever.
My point is the future is wide open but hardly certain. My thought is some of these guys might be great and some won’t. Law of averages. We have more “Potential” because the sheer number of young guys. Yes,, some won’t pan out.

Right now RJ, Denis, Mitchell and Knox might be special. Denis is the old man at 21. Frank Just turned 21 last month. I’m not seeing “special” with him but the intrigue of him turning the corner is something I will watch. I’ll watch his French team if I can. Throw in Iggy, thats 6 players under 21.
Trier and Dotson have limited upside given their ages. That not a bad thing. This young team will fight it out for minutes and their careers. The new guys are not stars, but good role players and proven commodities.
I dont’ care about the past. It does not factor into the future. Its not a question of faith, its math. We need just two players to grow up and be special. Can’t say who they are. I’m good with that.

ESPN just hired Mark Jackson to a multi-year contract for the upcoming season ..
The Clippers just hired Lue as Doc's head-assistant coach.
The Knicks having a majority of young-core players again for the 2nd season .. should have invested in one or two of the many unemployed head-coaches in the offseason to be Fizdale's top assistant-coach throughout the 2019-20 season.

Phil selected Frank's pass-first performance in the draft .. knowing shoot-first Melo & Rose & KP would be on the upcoming season roster.
Fizdale's 2nd season job in training-camp and pre-season are to set Frank up in a hustling out-scoring 2nd-unit lineup to start the first 6 minutes of the 2nd quarter. Any of the two above mention head coaches could put together a winning lineup (from our young & vet roster) to start the 2nd quarter having Frank at the point.
I'm just hoping Fizdale let 5 yr PG-Payton & 10 yr SG-Ellington be the starter back-court throughout the season. What I don't want to see in the upcoming season having a lot of 2 yr contract players are a different experiment every other game in player substitution in the rotation.

It's so rare to see a young NBA player having a very limited role on an international team.

If he is only getting 15 to 18 minutes playing on a roster with far less talent. How many minutes should he be getting on NBA roster with 10x better talent.

This is why i was completely lost as to why frank never got sent to the G league.

Part of me feels like the FO was concern about him going down there and still looking suspect against lesser talent, pretty much killing any value he had altogether.

His last game he was said to be damn near perfect. Team went up by 22 pts from when they put him in the game to when they took him out. Was 3-3 for 8 pts, caused havoc defensively, ran a smooth efficient offense at point. Yet he only got 13mins still. There was a good amount of garbage time and Frank didn’t get those garbage mins. Which would be the case if he was considered a back end of the rotation guy. Especially when playing well. So him getting low mins comes off as more strategic than due to lack of performance or role. These are not not preliminary games so maybe that’s it?

He got 21mins a game as a rookie. Why would they be concerned about him playing poorly in the G league if they were willing to play him 21mins a game as a pro? He also started the season his sophomore at SF and then PG. Why would they start him in an NBA lineup if they were concerned he would underperform in the G league?

I'm only suggesting that could have been a reason, i'm not confirming that. But the way he a has struggled to play at the NBA level should be reason enough to give him some minor league action to see how he performs.

My conclusion of frank thus far is that he is not a guy that looks to score or push the pace, So if that's the kind of guard that you are looking for then look elsewhere, but if you want a slow down methodical, half court player, who doesn't take any risk, than franks your guy.

We both have a very good Idea how FIZ wants to play, and it aint the frank way..

The main thing that has gotten Frank pulled has been him not being able to consistently hit the open jumpers. When he shot 45 fg% & 50% from 3 for the pre season. Fizz started him.

Believe it was also about passing up opportunities.

But then he wouldn’t have started in the first place. At the same time if he was knocking down open jumpers consistently. Then his confidence in taking them would expand. Goes hand in hand.

Frank has put up a handful of good scoring games. His game never seemed to expand from there. IMO it was due to a return to looking to pass, even when he had as good a look at the rim as his teammates.

Got to the point where he was getting looked off. They knew he was just going to pass the ball anyway.

The first time Fizz pulled and benched him was when he was 0-3 with 2 TO's within the first 5 mins of the game vs the Magic. Before this game he averged 8.2 attempts on 25.51mins per game in 13 games. 3.8 three attempts per game. 7.8pts per game on 35fg% 30% from 3. The attempts seem decent he needed to be at 44 or 45% & 37% from 3 tho.

How many times per game was Frank getting to the line, driving? I see someone trying to be a 3 and D guy, but has no plan B when the 3 isnt there. Good reason to pull a player if his lack of offense isnt helping the team keep pace.

Frank's defense had taken a dip last season as well. Made it easier for Fizdale to bench him in favor of 2 way players like Allen (last season) Trier as well.

BigDaddyG wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Frank with 12 points, 5 rebs and 3 steals against New Zealand. Can't find highlights, but posters on other sites say he had a nice impact on the game.

Definetely nice to see Frank break double digits. If he could do that here, the D is back as well. Should have plenty of offers for his services. And would make a strong case for sticking around.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Frank with 12 points, 5 rebs and 3 steals against New Zealand. Can't find highlights, but posters on other sites say he had a nice impact on the game.

Definetely nice to see Frank break double digits. If he could do that here, the D is back as well. Should have plenty of offers for his services. And would make a strong case for sticking around.

Keep in mind he did this in 15 minutes and he had 8 points in 13 minutes. It's not so much the scoring, but the aggressiveness. He's keeping his dribble alive longer and he's taking it to the rim, through contact. Those are the little improvements I'm seeing as France builds up for the tournament. I'd like to see more three point consistency. Maybe that comes around by tournament time.

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Frank with 12 points, 5 rebs and 3 steals against New Zealand. Can't find highlights, but posters on other sites say he had a nice impact on the game.

I love that 3 of his "highlights" are misses or getting his **** blocked.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Frank with 12 points, 5 rebs and 3 steals against New Zealand. Can't find highlights, but posters on other sites say he had a nice impact on the game.

I love that 3 of his "highlights" are misses or getting his **** blocked.

He got blocked, but the take away is that he got fouled on the play and was willing to take the contact. I think he got to the line three times, which is a big improvement.

How low we've set the bar....
This isn't even against NBA level players.

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Frank with 12 points, 5 rebs and 3 steals against New Zealand. Can't find highlights, but posters on other sites say he had a nice impact on the game.

I love that 3 of his "highlights" are misses or getting his **** blocked.

He got blocked, but the take away is that he got fouled on the play and was willing to take the contact. I think he got to the line three times, which is a big improvement.

How low we've set the bar....
This isn't even against NBA level players.

Don’t care. Sometimes you have to set the bar low. I don't care about missed shots right now. I care about him being aggressive and even though there were misses, some of those plays looked very impressive. I want to see this as something he can build from so that we can raise the bar.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Frank with 12 points, 5 rebs and 3 steals against New Zealand. Can't find highlights, but posters on other sites say he had a nice impact on the game.

I love that 3 of his "highlights" are misses or getting his **** blocked.

He got blocked, but the take away is that he got fouled on the play and was willing to take the contact. I think he got to the line three times, which is a big improvement.

How low we've set the bar....
This isn't even against NBA level players.

Don’t care. Sometimes you have to set the bar low. I don't care about missed shots right now. I care about him being aggressive and even though there were misses, some of those plays looked very impressive. I want to see this as something he can build from so that we can raise the bar.

He shows a more filled out frame, tighter handle, less heisitation, and better instincts. But before he was very limited so its still a guess if its NBA level or still not good enough, but just better than it was.

Impact wise the last few games Frank has been pretty much owning the comp as a 2-way player. Which is nessesary for his confidence.

When you think about it. Dude has only played 1.5 seasons of NBA ball. After coming in from overseas as I think the youngest player in the NBA at the time. He had a terrible year last yr which you don't want to see as. But he came out too early, he should have waited these 2 years to enter the draft after developing his body and game some more.

His potential as a 2-way impact player is still there. Patience can have some long term rewards with him and Knicks have from now until the end of next season to continue to build him up before they have to make a decision.

Imagine an alternate universe where some fans chide the knicks for being "Too" patient with some players.
17 wins makes everything look bad.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Frank with 12 points, 5 rebs and 3 steals against New Zealand. Can't find highlights, but posters on other sites say he had a nice impact on the game.

I love that 3 of his "highlights" are misses or getting his **** blocked.

He got blocked, but the take away is that he got fouled on the play and was willing to take the contact. I think he got to the line three times, which is a big improvement.

How low we've set the bar....
This isn't even against NBA level players.

Don’t care. Sometimes you have to set the bar low. I don't care about missed shots right now. I care about him being aggressive and even though there were misses, some of those plays looked very impressive. I want to see this as something he can build from so that we can raise the bar.

He shows a more filled out frame, tighter handle, less heisitation, and better instincts. But before he was very limited so its still a guess if its NBA level or still not good enough, but just better than it was.

Impact wise the last few games Frank has been pretty much owning the comp as a 2-way player. Which is nessesary for his confidence.

When you think about it. Dude has only played 1.5 seasons of NBA ball. After coming in from overseas as I think the youngest player in the NBA at the time. He had a terrible year last yr which you don't want to see as. But he came out too early, he should have waited these 2 years to enter the draft after developing his body and game some more.

His potential as a 2-way impact player is still there. Patience can have some long term rewards with him and Knicks have from now until the end of next season to continue to build him up before they have to make a decision.

Imagine an alternate universe where some fans chide the knicks for being "Too" patient with some players.
17 wins makes everything look bad.

I don’t blame them. Worst possible case scenario is Knicks take the hit during his developmental years of trying to figure the NBA out and developing his body & game. A new team takes the flyer on him right at the time he starts to put it together. They are gonna wanna be 100% sure that he either does or doesn’t have the goods.

I always said to wait until the end of his rookie contract from when he was drafted. But his soph season was so bad that if basically shaved off a yr of patience. But he is putting in the work to improve his game. Changed his trainer, getting work done with the French team. He gotta keep working and things will sort itself out.

IM not calling you out specifically.
I want him to succeed. I want it to be in a knick uniform, not under Pop in SAS!