GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The fact that we have not traded him, but yet traded, signed, and even went to the g league for other pg/sg's is just weird, and has not lit a fire under him

Mark my words, if he is regulated to the Bench because every other guard out played him, he will be the next player asking for a trade.

My guess would be the offers werent that good. Knicks scouts have been doing a good job of finding talent in the second round, undrafted. Pretty sure a deal would have been done with a decent offer.

I read they wanted to try DSJr and Frank as a backcourt. With Barrett and Payton on the roster, that plan might not be as much of a priority now. If Frank were averaging just under, or at double digits, the offers would have been there, Im guessing.

Are you telling me his valus is beneath a 2nd rounder?

How does a player go from 8th overall pick to having zero value in 2 seasons without any significant injuries..

Anyone that doesn't think that is not a direct reflection of this Franchises development process, your just a straight Homer for sure. Obviously the player takes some of the blame as well

Let's give him a little time. He made some nice passes hit the open man. Didn't see anything to get upset about. He needs to work on his offense more and develop a consistent jump shot.

I do think the front office is in a rush to move him, which ultimately will be a mistake. If he can become a sixth man that defends and leads the second unit, there is nothing wrong with that.

I think those statements are biased with Phil hatred more than objectivity

As I've said before,there is no reason not to think that Frank can't be a better version of Marcus Smart (who was a 6 pick). It's all a matter of knowing where he can contribute and having that player play to his strength

Smart is not some electric high scoring pg, and he hasn't even started consistently but the Celtics get value from him

If we're ****ting on Frank, when he was played out of position all last year, it's more on us, than him.

He should be defending the point, and playing smart basketball. When we play him at 2, that's our problem not his. He's not a scorer why play him at 2; 2 guards are bigger why take away one of his greatest advantages. It's even worse when we play him at 3.

As others have mentioned he's far from perfect, he's still a work in progress: he needs to hit his shots and take advantage of opportunities.

the knicks suck and many fans I think are wrong when they criticize him for essentially not being a ball hog. Where's the criticism of Fizz for messing with his confidence and playing him consistently out of his best position? Far greater criticism deserved there.

GustavBahler wrote:

Chandler wrote:I'm not seeing all of these better later picks others are seeing, with the exception of Donovan

I think those statements are biased with Phil hatred more than objectivity

As I've said before,there is no reason not to think that Frank can't be a better version of Marcus Smart (who was a 6 pick). It's all a matter of knowing where he can contribute and having that player play to his strength

Smart is not some electric high scoring pg, and he hasn't even started consistently but the Celtics get value from him

If we're ****ting on Frank, when he was played out of position all last year, it's more on us, than him.

He should be defending the point, and playing smart basketball. When we play him at 2, that's our problem not his. He's not a scorer why play him at 2; 2 guards are bigger why take away one of his greatest advantages. It's even worse when we play him at 3.

As others have mentioned he's far from perfect, he's still a work in progress: he needs to hit his shots and take advantage of opportunities.

the knicks suck and many fans I think are wrong when they criticize him for essentially not being a ball hog. Where's the criticism of Fizz for messing with his confidence and playing him consistently out of his best position? Far greater criticism deserved there.

Fanboy talk

what are you 12 years old?

Chandler wrote:I'm not seeing all of these better later picks others are seeing, with the exception of Donovan

I think those statements are biased with Phil hatred more than objectivity

As I've said before,there is no reason not to think that Frank can't be a better version of Marcus Smart (who was a 6 pick). It's all a matter of knowing where he can contribute and having that player play to his strength

Smart is not some electric high scoring pg, and he hasn't even started consistently but the Celtics get value from him

If we're ****ting on Frank, when he was played out of position all last year, it's more on us, than him.

He should be defending the point, and playing smart basketball. When we play him at 2, that's our problem not his. He's not a scorer why play him at 2; 2 guards are bigger why take away one of his greatest advantages. It's even worse when we play him at 3.

As others have mentioned he's far from perfect, he's still a work in progress: he needs to hit his shots and take advantage of opportunities.

the knicks suck and many fans I think are wrong when they criticize him for essentially not being a ball hog. Where's the criticism of Fizz for messing with his confidence and playing him consistently out of his best position? Far greater criticism deserved there.

You are sort of answering your own question. How is he playing out of position when no one can figure out what position best suits him..coming from 2 different coaching staffs

He was giving the fair chance to have a starting role at PG just like ever guard on the team, he failed miserably to simply push the ball, even when we were down by a lot or little, it didn't matter.

He is by far not the typical scoring PG needed in today's era of the NBA, yes he can defend well, but their is not a HIGH PRIORITY on defensive players in the league anymore.

He has to be able to drop 20 on any giving night, and he hasn't been able to do that in over a 100 NBA games played and 1000's of minutes.

Can the knicks afford to just have him stick around when they're are better options available to jump start a culture change..

Chandler wrote:I'm not seeing all of these better later picks others are seeing, with the exception of Donovan

I think those statements are biased with Phil hatred more than objectivity

As I've said before,there is no reason not to think that Frank can't be a better version of Marcus Smart (who was a 6 pick). It's all a matter of knowing where he can contribute and having that player play to his strength

Smart is not some electric high scoring pg, and he hasn't even started consistently but the Celtics get value from him

If we're ****ting on Frank, when he was played out of position all last year, it's more on us, than him.

He should be defending the point, and playing smart basketball. When we play him at 2, that's our problem not his. He's not a scorer why play him at 2; 2 guards are bigger why take away one of his greatest advantages. It's even worse when we play him at 3.

As others have mentioned he's far from perfect, he's still a work in progress: he needs to hit his shots and take advantage of opportunities.

the knicks suck and many fans I think are wrong when they criticize him for essentially not being a ball hog. Where's the criticism of Fizz for messing with his confidence and playing him consistently out of his best position? Far greater criticism deserved there.

Frank took over the point when Burkes got demoted. Frank played a couple of good games before his game plummeted and he was out played by Mudiay...He got a chance to reclaim the point again and got injured. Frank's struggles were on Frank, not the team.

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:I'm not seeing all of these better later picks others are seeing, with the exception of Donovan

I think those statements are biased with Phil hatred more than objectivity

As I've said before,there is no reason not to think that Frank can't be a better version of Marcus Smart (who was a 6 pick). It's all a matter of knowing where he can contribute and having that player play to his strength

Smart is not some electric high scoring pg, and he hasn't even started consistently but the Celtics get value from him

If we're ****ting on Frank, when he was played out of position all last year, it's more on us, than him.

He should be defending the point, and playing smart basketball. When we play him at 2, that's our problem not his. He's not a scorer why play him at 2; 2 guards are bigger why take away one of his greatest advantages. It's even worse when we play him at 3.

As others have mentioned he's far from perfect, he's still a work in progress: he needs to hit his shots and take advantage of opportunities.

the knicks suck and many fans I think are wrong when they criticize him for essentially not being a ball hog. Where's the criticism of Fizz for messing with his confidence and playing him consistently out of his best position? Far greater criticism deserved there.

You are sort of answering your own question. How is he playing out of position when no one can figure out what position best suits him..coming from 2 different coaching staffs

He was giving the fair chance to have a starting role at PG just like ever guard on the team, he failed miserably to simply push the ball, even when we were down by a lot or little, it didn't matter.

He is by far not the typical scoring PG needed in today's era of the NBA, yes he can defend well, but their is not a HIGH PRIORITY on defensive players in the league anymore.
He has to be able to drop 20 on any giving night, and he hasn't been able to do that in over a 100 NBA games played and 1000's of minutes.

Can the knicks afford to just have him stick around when they're are better options available to jump start a culture change..

Did you see Draymond Green's contract extension? This is a guy who struggles to give GSW a consistent 15 ppg.Evan Turner is a good example of a guy who can defend and make plays, but can't score consistently. You don't need to drop 20 on any given night. But Frank does need to show he's a threat on offense.

agree 100%. he definitely needs to improve his offense but we are dumb-dumbs if we dump him or don't see his value on D. I'd also argue that most of the Toronto roster has had defense as a priority at one time or another in their careers. The John Walls, Derek Rose score first pg does not necessarily equate with wins.

CrushAlot wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:I'm not seeing all of these better later picks others are seeing, with the exception of Donovan

I think those statements are biased with Phil hatred more than objectivity

As I've said before,there is no reason not to think that Frank can't be a better version of Marcus Smart (who was a 6 pick). It's all a matter of knowing where he can contribute and having that player play to his strength

Smart is not some electric high scoring pg, and he hasn't even started consistently but the Celtics get value from him

If we're ****ting on Frank, when he was played out of position all last year, it's more on us, than him.

He should be defending the point, and playing smart basketball. When we play him at 2, that's our problem not his. He's not a scorer why play him at 2; 2 guards are bigger why take away one of his greatest advantages. It's even worse when we play him at 3.

As others have mentioned he's far from perfect, he's still a work in progress: he needs to hit his shots and take advantage of opportunities.

the knicks suck and many fans I think are wrong when they criticize him for essentially not being a ball hog. Where's the criticism of Fizz for messing with his confidence and playing him consistently out of his best position? Far greater criticism deserved there.

Frank took over the point when Burkes got demoted. Frank played a couple of good games before his game plummeted and he was out played by Mudiay...He got a chance to reclaim the point again and got injured. Frank's struggles were on Frank, not the team.

Frank certainly deserves blame, but so does the team IMHO.

As I mentioned it comes down to expectations and playing to strengths. He can be a better version than Marcus Smart. Smart is strong and hustles but is (also) limited offensively. He's not the dynamo people expected when he was drafted, but the Celts found a way for him to contribute

Frank when he only played pg was elite at PnR defense AS A ROOKIE! his numbers dropped dramatically when he started guarding 2s and 3s

As a rookie we saw him stop guys with elite handles, e.g., Harden, Wade when they tried to school them with fancy dribbling.

We also saw him reject a Ben Simmons dunk

Now who knows maybe he had the mother of sophomore slumps. My own take is that when they took him off point things spiraled downward.

I can fully imagine that as a rookie he took pride and played with confidence knowing he couold contribute to winning basketball

Last year playing different positions hurt his D a lot, and then the expectations were for him to ratchet up his aggression on offense. Could easily imagine that disrupting a then 20 year old's confidence and mind set

Frank played off the ball more in Europe than at the point. The draft express scouting report on Frank said that if he was going to play the point he needed to see a lot of time on the ball in the g league. If he could hit his shot maybe he shares the back court with another facilitator like RJ, DSJ or Trier. Frank has a long way to go on offense. Staying healthy would help as well. I don’t think Frank has been misused but I do think time in the g league on the ball woukd have helped. Sending him down now hurts his trade value. I am not sure where he is going to get his minutes this year.

You make good points, and I know during his rookie year G-league was mentioned. I thought he was fine playing the limited minutes he was and coming off the bench. I think that point can be debated -- playing time in G versus learning from practicing with NBA and playing some. I respect your view though.

Regardless of how he was used in Europe, in my opinion if he sticks in the NBA it will be because he defends the point. Playing the 2 or 3 is a recipe for failure and we should just trade him if that's our plan for him. That in my opinion is the FO and CS big failure with Frank -- we played to his weaknesses, and did not exploit his strengths.

Regarding a long way to go offensively, I agree but the same can be said for Marcus Smart. George Hill and S.Livingston play winning basketball and have never been electric offensively -- and neither has the ceiling frank has for defending the point

I agree 100% he needs to stay healthy and to improve on offense. But for me the next step in his growth is to hit open shots consistently and to take shots when open. I can be patient waiting for him to be a bigger impact on offense.

I can be happy with Frank even if he never becomes an All Star. He can contribute to winning if we develop him, and play him, correctly

BigDaddyG wrote:Couldn't catch the game, but it seems like Frank was more aggressive with his dribble.

Thanks.Knicks even hired a choir to sing over the clip! Other than the last play, looks more like what we saw from Frank when he first entered the league. Good thing. Believe he is making better use of his stride to get by defenders. The last play Frank showed a nice burst, used his stride to get to the rim quickly.

Looks like his groin issues are in the past. And maybe did some work to make reinjury less likely. Interesting that Frank only got 18 minutes. Not sure why.

BigDaddyG wrote:Couldn't catch the game, but it seems like Frank was more aggressive with his dribble.

my favorite play starts at 0:18. he waits for the guy to get back inbounds and then hits him for the assist.

https://twitter.com/SKPearlman/status/1159420213001183232

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https://twitter.com/SKPearlman/status/1159434119824257025

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https://twitter.com/SKPearlman/status/1159438682077704193