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Yahoo Sports: Why NBA teams are already preparing for a 'generational' 2022 draft
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GustavBahler
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7/27/2019  12:06 PM
Glad we still have our 1st round picks! Glad we didnt do an AD trade like the Lakers did.


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-the-2022-nba-draft-will-be-generationally-loaded-022747270.html



Pete Thamel Yahoo Sports

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – Hopeless in Oklahoma City? Anxious in Cleveland? Impatient in Charlotte?

To those geographically forlorn and financially restricted NBA franchises, hope is coming. In the wake of the major-market magnetism that unfolded in the NBA’s summer of 2019, the brightest beacon for those jilted NBA franchises comes from the 2022 NBA draft.

The ballyhooed “Double Draft” should arrive in 2022 because of a confluence of high-end players from two talented high school classes. That’s expected to be the first season when the NBA rule change goes into effect that will pare down the NBA age minimum from 19 to 18. That means all of the country’s best one-and-done players from 2021 and prep-to-pro prospects from 2022 will combine for a blockbuster draft that, in theory, will have double the high-end talent.

“I think it’s going to be a monumental draft class, potentially a generational class,” Rivals.com recruiting analyst Corey Evans said. “The infiltration of the one-and-done class from 2021 and the potential of the straight-to-the-pros group makes it a tsunami of talent, like two draft classes in one.”

NBA franchises are already positioning themselves for the chance to cash in on all the talent. The sweetener for the 2022 draft is the allure of expected No. 1 overall pick Emoni Bates. He’s a rising sophomore in Michigan who is already considered the country’s best NBA prospect, regardless of age. Expect Bates to become the face of the newest prep-to-pro age, just like Kevin Garnett was a generation ago. “From a talent perspective,” Evans said, “Emoni is one of the best freshmen the industry has seen in the last decade.”

The NBA scouting set, replete with their Gucci sneakers, jaded eyes and unimpressed scowls, are adjusting to the expected new world. According to the NBA, scouts are typically allowed into five high school events each calendar year. (The McDonald’s All American Game and practices, for example, are staples.) This season, the NBA added the Nike Top 100 in St. Louis, which featured the best players in 2021 and 2022.

There’s also been increased access to USA Basketball, as NBA personnel will also be flooding Colorado Springs this weekend – sitting alongside the country’s top college coaches – to peek at nearly 70 of the country’s best high school players invited to the USA Men’s Junior National Mini-Camp.

Emoni Bates pulls down a rebound during a late 2017 game. (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)

According to the NBA, it’s allowed only one additional event this season for scouts and front-office members to attend. But those around the grassroots world have seen and felt a significant uptick of NBA scouting presence the past two years. Essentially, it would be unwise from a negotiating standpoint for the league to make any assumptions about 2022 being the year the draft rule changes until an agreement with the players’ association. (The looming issue holding things up involves players’ medical records.)

The NBA initially came to 2022 as the first year for prep players to return to the pros, in part, because before this offseason no first-round picks had been traded. So it’s the widespread assumption that’s the year high school players will be going pro.

“I think it makes you shift some of the focus and put a little more manpower down on the grassroots part of it,” a veteran NBA executive said. “So you can kind of stay ahead of it, so now people can try and really cover events.”

All of that is expected to coalesce with the 2022 draft, as savvy NBA teams have already positioned their franchises to exploit a draft with unprecedented depth. Atlanta, Brooklyn, Cleveland, Memphis, New Orleans and Oklahoma City are positioned for multiple first-round picks, pending the complications from pick protections. (Oklahoma City could have as many as three first-round picks, provided they stay in the lottery and depending where Denver finishes.)

“I’ve been telling NBA teams for two years: Get as many 2022 picks as you can,” said an industry source plugged into the grassroots level. “You have two classes worth of guys who are going to be in there. If you get the 25th pick in the draft, you get a kid who would have been a lottery pick the following year.”

It would be a surprise if Bates didn’t end up as the No. 1 overall pick. Bates, 15, is a 6-foot-8 forward who blew up nationally by leading Ypsilanti Lincoln High School to the state title this year and dropping 43 in a grassroots game against LeBron James Jr. this spring. (Yahoo’s Pat Forde left that game impressed.)

One certainty is that high-end players like Bates aren’t going to give much time or thought to college basketball, as that sport is bracing for a talent drain in 2022. Bates’ father’s quotes from the Peach Jam in South Carolina about his son possibly reclassifying to play in college were laughed off. “If the goal is to get paid and drafted, why go to college and get any holes exposed?” a source told Yahoo Sports.

A safe estimate, according to an NBA executive, is that 20 to 25 high school kids will declare for the draft every year once high school players are allowed to go. The nuances of how agents will guide players through the process and whether undrafted players can still go to school need to be worked out. Those details are critical to the future of college basketball and will potentially muddle recruiting boards across the country.

It’s clear that the NBA is much better positioned to nurture and develop players than the pre-2005 era, when high school players were last allowed to go to the NBA. “Pretty much every NBA team has a G League franchise now, they have a developmental team in house,” said an NBA executive.

Who will be at the forefront of the 2022 draft after Bates? Let’s start with the best players from the 2021 class, as Rivals.com No. 1 Jonathan Kuminga, No. 2 Terrence Clark and No. 3 Patrick Baldwin Jr. can be considered the top of a better-than average class. Those players will either have to go to college for a year, go overseas or reclassify to avoid exposure. (Expect the reclassify option to be heavily explored.)

The talented 2021 class will join a high-end 2022 class for the Double Draft. After Bates in 2022 are two stellar prospects: 6-foot-9 Jalen Duren (New Castle, Delaware) and 6-5 Chris Livingston (Akron, Ohio).

By then, NBA executives will be going to small-town gyms, AAU events and arenas that look vastly different than what scouts saw the past 15 years. “It’s a different ballgame than evaluating players at those schools in the ACC and SEC,” said former Suns GM Ryan McDonough, who scouted for the Celtics early in his career.

On Saturday in Colorado Springs, the NBA scouting glitterati will be on hand, a harbinger of the future of the sport. A paradigm shift for evaluating top prospects is underway, as is the hype for the 2022 draft.

AUTOADVERT
GustavBahler
Posts: 42801
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7/27/2019  12:23 PM
Times have changed...

New York Knicks

Own

• 2019-2025 first round picks

• 2022-2025 second round picks

via Trade

• 2019 second round pick (via Magic, Cavaliers or Rockets) - Least favorable

• 2020 second round pick (via Hornets) - Unprotected

• 2021 first round pick (via Mavericks) - Two years after DAL gives 1st Rnd to ATL, DAL gives 1st Rnd to NYK - Unprotected 2021-2025

• 2021 second round pick (via Hornets) - Unprotected

• 2023 first round pick (via Mavericks) - At least four years after DAL gives 1st Rnd to ATL, DAL gives 1st Rnd to NYK - Protected 1-10 from 2023-2025

smackeddog
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7/28/2019  2:36 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2019  2:37 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Glad we still have our 1st round picks! Glad we didnt do an AD trade like the Lakers did.


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-the-2022-nba-draft-will-be-generationally-loaded-022747270.html

I feel like I missed something when this got announced- years ago the NBA brought in rule changes specifically because they didn't want players coming into the NBA straight from high school. Now it seems they're fine with it- what's changed? why is it now a good idea? (genuine question)

GustavBahler
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7/28/2019  9:56 AM
smackeddog wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Glad we still have our 1st round picks! Glad we didnt do an AD trade like the Lakers did.


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-the-2022-nba-draft-will-be-generationally-loaded-022747270.html

I feel like I missed something when this got announced- years ago the NBA brought in rule changes specifically because they didn't want players coming into the NBA straight from high school. Now it seems they're fine with it- what's changed? why is it now a good idea? (genuine question)

My guess would be that its in part a response to the NCAA making billions off student/athletes. When these rules were originally implemented, the NCAA had a much better rep. Athletes have been speaking up. NBA has their own profit motive as well.

Dont blame these kids for trying to get paid. At the same time, the result will also mean kids with even more learning to do on the court. Probably wont be must see TV.

CrushAlot
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7/28/2019  10:41 AM
It stinks the unprotected Dallas pick is 2021. My guess is the Hornets second round pick in 22 will be pretty high.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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7/28/2019  1:32 PM
Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.
GustavBahler
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7/28/2019  1:55 PM
Nalod wrote:Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.

It will be, it will be.. dun dun dun...

Looks to be a deep draft. Deals should be there if mgmt sees a prospect they really like. Might push good prospects into the second round, or undrafted. If we still have the same scouting dept in place. Judging by their ability to find talent in the lower part of the draft, and undrafted. Knicks might have a nice draft down the road. Not really concerned about the draft for the next couple of seasons, as we have plenty of good, young prospects to develop. More of a need for stars in the next few seasons.

By 2022 we will hopefully have healthy stars in their prime. Our recent draft picks, some of the younger players acquired, will be full time starters. The draft that year could help build a bench deep enough to contend, and stay in contention. Without having to overpay in the FA market. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

BigDaddyG
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7/28/2019  2:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2019  2:33 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.

It will be, it will be.. dun dun dun...

Looks to be a deep draft. Deals should be there if mgmt sees a prospect they really like. Might push good prospects into the second round, or undrafted. If we still have the same scouting dept in place. Judging by their ability to find talent in the lower part of the draft, and undrafted. Knicks might have a nice draft down the road. Not really concerned about the draft for the next couple of seasons, as we have plenty of good, young prospects to develop. More of a need for stars in the next few seasons.

By 2022 we will hopefully have healthy stars in their prime. Our recent draft picks, some of the younger players acquired, will be full time starters. The draft that year could help build a bench deep enough to contend, and stay in contention. Without having to overpay in the FA market. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

I'm a bit skeptical about the impact the "double" draft will have on incoming talent. It will make second round picks a bit more a valuable and I think team's will be able to find more talent in the UDFA market. But I skimmed through some of the past drafts ranging from 1997-2005 and there were still a lot of misses. You still had team's drafting guys like Sebastian Telfair in the lottery and missing out on the Jameer Nelsons of the world. Of course, there were some diamonds in the rough like Monte Ellis drafted in the second round. But I didn't see much difference in the success rates team's had before and after 2005, when the league changed its eligibility rule. Do GMs have more confidence that their developmental infrastructures are more prepared for these new groups of high schoolers coming in? Do they think their scouting departments are more prepared to identify NBA talent on the highschool level? It's one thing to say LeBron will be a future pro, but it's another thing to identify a guy like Steph Curry. I'm sure Most guys would've picked Jonny Flynn over Chris Paul if you saw them play in highschool. I'm curious how this all shakes out.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CrushAlot
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7/28/2019  2:51 PM
Nalod wrote:Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.

If Dallas had kept their pick and s it their 2020 pick to the Hawks the Knicks would have their unprotected 2022 pick. That pick was in play if they had moved up in the lottery.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
GustavBahler
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7/28/2019  3:04 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.

It will be, it will be.. dun dun dun...

Looks to be a deep draft. Deals should be there if mgmt sees a prospect they really like. Might push good prospects into the second round, or undrafted. If we still have the same scouting dept in place. Judging by their ability to find talent in the lower part of the draft, and undrafted. Knicks might have a nice draft down the road. Not really concerned about the draft for the next couple of seasons, as we have plenty of good, young prospects to develop. More of a need for stars in the next few seasons.

By 2022 we will hopefully have healthy stars in their prime. Our recent draft picks, some of the younger players acquired, will be full time starters. The draft that year could help build a bench deep enough to contend, and stay in contention. Without having to overpay in the FA market. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

I'm a bit skeptical about the impact the "double" draft will have on incoming talent. It will make second round picks a bit more a valuable and I think team's will be able to find more talent in the UDFA market. But I skimmed through some of the past drafts ranging from 1997-2005 and there were still a lot of misses. You still had team's drafting guys like Sebastian Telfair in the lottery and missing out on the Jameer Nelsons of the world. Of course, there were some diamonds in the rough like Monte Ellis drafted in the second round. But I didn't see much difference in the success rates team's had before and after 2005, when the league changed its eligibility rule. Do GMs have more confidence that their developmental infrastructures are more prepared for these new groups of high schoolers coming in? Do they think their scouting departments are more prepared to identify NBA talent on the highschool level? It's one thing to say LeBron will be a future pro, but it's another thing to identify a guy like Steph Curry. I'm sure Most guys would've picked Jonny Flynn over Chris Paul if you saw them play in highschool. I'm curious how this all shakes out.

Good questions I cant fully answer. Maybe teams trying to swing for the fences with much hyped high school players, will send more NBA ready prospects to fall into the Knicks range, wherever that may be.

As far as the Knicks scouting dept being up to the task. Perry did send his scouts to the playoffs, thats not considered normal procedure. Wouldn't be surprised if Perry/Robinson look to add a scout(s) with more high school scouting exp. Might already have someone like that on the staff. Point is, that the Knicks are now using their scouting dept in ways to give themselves an edge in other areas. Expect Perry/Mills to be competitive about getting all the info they need to make an informed decision come draft day.

BigDaddyG
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7/28/2019  3:20 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.

It will be, it will be.. dun dun dun...

Looks to be a deep draft. Deals should be there if mgmt sees a prospect they really like. Might push good prospects into the second round, or undrafted. If we still have the same scouting dept in place. Judging by their ability to find talent in the lower part of the draft, and undrafted. Knicks might have a nice draft down the road. Not really concerned about the draft for the next couple of seasons, as we have plenty of good, young prospects to develop. More of a need for stars in the next few seasons.

By 2022 we will hopefully have healthy stars in their prime. Our recent draft picks, some of the younger players acquired, will be full time starters. The draft that year could help build a bench deep enough to contend, and stay in contention. Without having to overpay in the FA market. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

I'm a bit skeptical about the impact the "double" draft will have on incoming talent. It will make second round picks a bit more a valuable and I think team's will be able to find more talent in the UDFA market. But I skimmed through some of the past drafts ranging from 1997-2005 and there were still a lot of misses. You still had team's drafting guys like Sebastian Telfair in the lottery and missing out on the Jameer Nelsons of the world. Of course, there were some diamonds in the rough like Monte Ellis drafted in the second round. But I didn't see much difference in the success rates team's had before and after 2005, when the league changed its eligibility rule. Do GMs have more confidence that their developmental infrastructures are more prepared for these new groups of high schoolers coming in? Do they think their scouting departments are more prepared to identify NBA talent on the highschool level? It's one thing to say LeBron will be a future pro, but it's another thing to identify a guy like Steph Curry. I'm sure Most guys would've picked Jonny Flynn over Chris Paul if you saw them play in highschool. I'm curious how this all shakes out.

Good questions I cant fully answer. Maybe teams trying to swing for the fences with much hyped high school players, will send more NBA ready prospects to fall into the Knicks range, wherever that may be.

As far as the Knicks scouting dept being up to the task. Perry did send his scouts to the playoffs, thats not considered normal procedure. Wouldn't be surprised if Perry/Robinson look to add a scout(s) with more high school scouting exp. Might already have someone like that on the staff. Point is, that the Knicks are now using their scouting dept in ways to give themselves an edge in other areas. Expect Perry/Mills to be competitive about getting all the info they need to make an informed decision come draft day.


Yeah, our scouting department has always been described as above average. Keep in mind that has nothing to do with the guys we had manning the front office in the past. My doubt doesn't just cover the Knicks, but most of the teams in the league. I don't believe high school scouting has evolved that match in the past decade. That's why you see guys like Mitch fall into the second round. Teams have the G-League now, but that's the only major difference I've seen in development.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GustavBahler
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7/28/2019  3:33 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2019  3:35 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.

It will be, it will be.. dun dun dun...

Looks to be a deep draft. Deals should be there if mgmt sees a prospect they really like. Might push good prospects into the second round, or undrafted. If we still have the same scouting dept in place. Judging by their ability to find talent in the lower part of the draft, and undrafted. Knicks might have a nice draft down the road. Not really concerned about the draft for the next couple of seasons, as we have plenty of good, young prospects to develop. More of a need for stars in the next few seasons.

By 2022 we will hopefully have healthy stars in their prime. Our recent draft picks, some of the younger players acquired, will be full time starters. The draft that year could help build a bench deep enough to contend, and stay in contention. Without having to overpay in the FA market. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

I'm a bit skeptical about the impact the "double" draft will have on incoming talent. It will make second round picks a bit more a valuable and I think team's will be able to find more talent in the UDFA market. But I skimmed through some of the past drafts ranging from 1997-2005 and there were still a lot of misses. You still had team's drafting guys like Sebastian Telfair in the lottery and missing out on the Jameer Nelsons of the world. Of course, there were some diamonds in the rough like Monte Ellis drafted in the second round. But I didn't see much difference in the success rates team's had before and after 2005, when the league changed its eligibility rule. Do GMs have more confidence that their developmental infrastructures are more prepared for these new groups of high schoolers coming in? Do they think their scouting departments are more prepared to identify NBA talent on the highschool level? It's one thing to say LeBron will be a future pro, but it's another thing to identify a guy like Steph Curry. I'm sure Most guys would've picked Jonny Flynn over Chris Paul if you saw them play in highschool. I'm curious how this all shakes out.

Good questions I cant fully answer. Maybe teams trying to swing for the fences with much hyped high school players, will send more NBA ready prospects to fall into the Knicks range, wherever that may be.

As far as the Knicks scouting dept being up to the task. Perry did send his scouts to the playoffs, thats not considered normal procedure. Wouldn't be surprised if Perry/Robinson look to add a scout(s) with more high school scouting exp. Might already have someone like that on the staff. Point is, that the Knicks are now using their scouting dept in ways to give themselves an edge in other areas. Expect Perry/Mills to be competitive about getting all the info they need to make an informed decision come draft day.


Yeah, our scouting department has always been described as above average. Keep in mind that has nothing to do with the guys we had manning the front office in the past. My doubt doesn't just cover the Knicks, but most of the teams in the league. I don't believe high school scouting has evolved that match in the past decade. That's why you see guys like Mitch fall into the second round. Teams have the G-League now, but that's the only major difference I've seen in development.

According to the article, scouts have been allowed to scout only a handful of HS games, events per year. But thats been changing over the last couple of years. Having more prospects to choose from might produce better outcomes. Might not have made sense in the past under the old rules to devote too much energy into scouting high school players. Wouldn't be surprised if teams/scouts are given more access to scout HS games in the future as part of some agreement.

StarksEwing1
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7/28/2019  3:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/28/2019  3:39 PM
Im just glad we finally value the draft. For over decade we threw away countless picks and always regretted it. Now we have all our own and additional picks. Next year we have the the hornets 2nd rounder which should fall between 31-36. This is important because our recent history shows we are very good in the 2nd round. I feel good about the Dallae firsts because I dont trust KP will stay healthy or keep his head screwed on right
BigDaddyG
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7/28/2019  3:50 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.

It will be, it will be.. dun dun dun...

Looks to be a deep draft. Deals should be there if mgmt sees a prospect they really like. Might push good prospects into the second round, or undrafted. If we still have the same scouting dept in place. Judging by their ability to find talent in the lower part of the draft, and undrafted. Knicks might have a nice draft down the road. Not really concerned about the draft for the next couple of seasons, as we have plenty of good, young prospects to develop. More of a need for stars in the next few seasons.

By 2022 we will hopefully have healthy stars in their prime. Our recent draft picks, some of the younger players acquired, will be full time starters. The draft that year could help build a bench deep enough to contend, and stay in contention. Without having to overpay in the FA market. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

I'm a bit skeptical about the impact the "double" draft will have on incoming talent. It will make second round picks a bit more a valuable and I think team's will be able to find more talent in the UDFA market. But I skimmed through some of the past drafts ranging from 1997-2005 and there were still a lot of misses. You still had team's drafting guys like Sebastian Telfair in the lottery and missing out on the Jameer Nelsons of the world. Of course, there were some diamonds in the rough like Monte Ellis drafted in the second round. But I didn't see much difference in the success rates team's had before and after 2005, when the league changed its eligibility rule. Do GMs have more confidence that their developmental infrastructures are more prepared for these new groups of high schoolers coming in? Do they think their scouting departments are more prepared to identify NBA talent on the highschool level? It's one thing to say LeBron will be a future pro, but it's another thing to identify a guy like Steph Curry. I'm sure Most guys would've picked Jonny Flynn over Chris Paul if you saw them play in highschool. I'm curious how this all shakes out.

Good questions I cant fully answer. Maybe teams trying to swing for the fences with much hyped high school players, will send more NBA ready prospects to fall into the Knicks range, wherever that may be.

As far as the Knicks scouting dept being up to the task. Perry did send his scouts to the playoffs, thats not considered normal procedure. Wouldn't be surprised if Perry/Robinson look to add a scout(s) with more high school scouting exp. Might already have someone like that on the staff. Point is, that the Knicks are now using their scouting dept in ways to give themselves an edge in other areas. Expect Perry/Mills to be competitive about getting all the info they need to make an informed decision come draft day.


Yeah, our scouting department has always been described as above average. Keep in mind that has nothing to do with the guys we had manning the front office in the past. My doubt doesn't just cover the Knicks, but most of the teams in the league. I don't believe high school scouting has evolved that match in the past decade. That's why you see guys like Mitch fall into the second round. Teams have the G-League now, but that's the only major difference I've seen in development.

According to the article, scouts have been allowed to scout only a handful of HS games, events per year. But thats been changing over the last couple of years. Having more prospects to choose from might produce better outcomes. Might not have made sense in the past under the old rules to devote too much energy into scouting high school players. Wouldn't be surprised if teams/scouts are given more access to scout HS games in the future as part of some agreement.

Ok, but really...don't you find that hard to believe lol I mean the level of scouting is insane. We've got fifth-graders being ranked. I'm glad it will be out in the open, I guess.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GustavBahler
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7/28/2019  3:54 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Dallas and all teams know the value of the ‘22 picks and why most were protected. As for the teams that went all in now? Not my concern.

It will be, it will be.. dun dun dun...

Looks to be a deep draft. Deals should be there if mgmt sees a prospect they really like. Might push good prospects into the second round, or undrafted. If we still have the same scouting dept in place. Judging by their ability to find talent in the lower part of the draft, and undrafted. Knicks might have a nice draft down the road. Not really concerned about the draft for the next couple of seasons, as we have plenty of good, young prospects to develop. More of a need for stars in the next few seasons.

By 2022 we will hopefully have healthy stars in their prime. Our recent draft picks, some of the younger players acquired, will be full time starters. The draft that year could help build a bench deep enough to contend, and stay in contention. Without having to overpay in the FA market. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

I'm a bit skeptical about the impact the "double" draft will have on incoming talent. It will make second round picks a bit more a valuable and I think team's will be able to find more talent in the UDFA market. But I skimmed through some of the past drafts ranging from 1997-2005 and there were still a lot of misses. You still had team's drafting guys like Sebastian Telfair in the lottery and missing out on the Jameer Nelsons of the world. Of course, there were some diamonds in the rough like Monte Ellis drafted in the second round. But I didn't see much difference in the success rates team's had before and after 2005, when the league changed its eligibility rule. Do GMs have more confidence that their developmental infrastructures are more prepared for these new groups of high schoolers coming in? Do they think their scouting departments are more prepared to identify NBA talent on the highschool level? It's one thing to say LeBron will be a future pro, but it's another thing to identify a guy like Steph Curry. I'm sure Most guys would've picked Jonny Flynn over Chris Paul if you saw them play in highschool. I'm curious how this all shakes out.

Good questions I cant fully answer. Maybe teams trying to swing for the fences with much hyped high school players, will send more NBA ready prospects to fall into the Knicks range, wherever that may be.

As far as the Knicks scouting dept being up to the task. Perry did send his scouts to the playoffs, thats not considered normal procedure. Wouldn't be surprised if Perry/Robinson look to add a scout(s) with more high school scouting exp. Might already have someone like that on the staff. Point is, that the Knicks are now using their scouting dept in ways to give themselves an edge in other areas. Expect Perry/Mills to be competitive about getting all the info they need to make an informed decision come draft day.


Yeah, our scouting department has always been described as above average. Keep in mind that has nothing to do with the guys we had manning the front office in the past. My doubt doesn't just cover the Knicks, but most of the teams in the league. I don't believe high school scouting has evolved that match in the past decade. That's why you see guys like Mitch fall into the second round. Teams have the G-League now, but that's the only major difference I've seen in development.

According to the article, scouts have been allowed to scout only a handful of HS games, events per year. But thats been changing over the last couple of years. Having more prospects to choose from might produce better outcomes. Might not have made sense in the past under the old rules to devote too much energy into scouting high school players. Wouldn't be surprised if teams/scouts are given more access to scout HS games in the future as part of some agreement.

Ok, but really...don't you find that hard to believe lol I mean the level of scouting is insane. We've got fifth-graders being ranked. I'm glad it will be out in the open, I guess.

Some things you pick up about a player from being there at the game. Agree there is a lot that goes on in the shadows, and its good that there will be more transparency.

GustavBahler
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7/28/2019  8:23 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:According to the article, scouts have been allowed to scout only a handful of HS games, events per year. But thats been changing over the last couple of years. Having more prospects to choose from might produce better outcomes.


This is actually not true.

The best indicator of future success for these hopefuls is seeing them play against NBA grade competition at volume over time.

This is why Ainge was so invested in Tatum. Who had a rare situation to play with, against and train with NBA caliber players for a long while before he was drafted. What people ignore about the Splash Brothers is they come from NBA pedigree. They grew up around NBA players and played and learned from NBA grade athletes and coaches their whole lives.

"Progressive Overload"

If you want to get stronger, you need to put more weight on the bar. Or do more reps. Or reduce time between sets.

If you are always lifting a weight that is easy for you ( the typical high level prospect destroying competition many tiers down in ability) , you aren't going to get stronger.

Marc Gasol was NBA ready in part because he had to war against his HOF brother Pau growing up.

Unfortunately these guy are so young, they are not physically developed enough, most of them, to take on NBA grade competition during the timelines needed to really evaluate them.

What would produce better prospects is having the top 150 prep players in the country be farmed out to essentially a basketball factory. Run and operated and managed by former NBA players and GMs. You need to get these guys really really young and train them in a way that's simply unacceptable to Western/American standards.

Then there is the looming demographic/social backlash problem. To have young black American kids be churned out like young Muay Thai fighters are built and mostly broken overseas.

Real "development" needs to be a lifelong process. The Spartans understood this.

Instead we get a gaggle of mostly ignorant entitled ****sticks with no real fundamentals who have never heard the word, "No" since they were like 8 years old. No wonder the NBA talent pipeline is so horse****ed.

Of course its true. What you're describing are ideal conditions. Have to start with how they play against their peers first, before knowing if they might be good enough to play against pro level talent. Something they do on the HS court has to put them in the conversation first. The more players a scout is allowed to evaluate in person, the better.

GustavBahler
Posts: 42801
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7/28/2019  10:08 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:The more players a scout is allowed to evaluate in person, the better.


"Scouts" pay in cash, under the table, to coaches for footage of their players. They also pay people to go take video during practices and games and tournaments and street ball matchups.

Sometimes they will pay someone to befriend or date the prospect. Or befriend or date the parent. Many times the person looking for the information will build a relationship with said prospects best team mate to get an entry point to said player. They will have someone dig through the players/families trash can for information. Emails, credit records, family medical histories, all of it, no secrets.

Other than Bruno Caboloco ( far outside the bounds of even NBA reaches) and Jeremy Lin ( a function of open racism), there are no secrets in the NBA regarding young prospects at even the lowest levels.

Having official scouts at more games doesn't really change very much.

Dont doubt some of these happen with scouts. Dont doubt if you give a scout a choice between game footage (cell phone video or otherwise) second hand information, or a front row seat for a game where a prospect is playing. The scout will take that front row seat every time. Easier to gauge a player's court awareness, because the scout also has a clearer look of what is happening on the court. Not saying its impossible to scout without seeing a player firsthand, but it does help.

blkexec
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7/29/2019  1:21 AM
smackeddog wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Glad we still have our 1st round picks! Glad we didnt do an AD trade like the Lakers did.


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-the-2022-nba-draft-will-be-generationally-loaded-022747270.html

I feel like I missed something when this got announced- years ago the NBA brought in rule changes specifically because they didn't want players coming into the NBA straight from high school. Now it seems they're fine with it- what's changed? why is it now a good idea? (genuine question)

In a press conference before the 2017 NBA Finals, Silver said the eligibility rule was “not working for anyone.”

“I think they should change the rule,” N.C. State coach Kevin Keatts said recently. “If you’re good enough to go play, nobody should tell you (you) shouldn’t be able to.”

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/article206009149.html

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
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7/29/2019  3:12 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:The more players a scout is allowed to evaluate in person, the better.


"Scouts" pay in cash, under the table, to coaches for footage of their players. They also pay people to go take video during practices and games and tournaments and street ball matchups.

Sometimes they will pay someone to befriend or date the prospect. Or befriend or date the parent. Many times the person looking for the information will build a relationship with said prospects best team mate to get an entry point to said player. They will have someone dig through the players/families trash can for information. Emails, credit records, family medical histories, all of it, no secrets.

Other than Bruno Caboloco ( far outside the bounds of even NBA reaches) and Jeremy Lin ( a function of open racism), there are no secrets in the NBA regarding young prospects at even the lowest levels.

Having official scouts at more games doesn't really change very much.

Dont doubt some of these happen with scouts. Dont doubt if you give a scout a choice between game footage (cell phone video or otherwise) second hand information, or a front row seat for a game where a prospect is playing. The scout will take that front row seat every time. Easier to gauge a player's court awareness, because the scout also has a clearer look of what is happening on the court. Not saying its impossible to scout without seeing a player firsthand, but it does help.


Teams want both conditions. When the prospect knows someone is watching and when they don't know someone is watching.

Many many players have fallen in the draft or fallen out of the entire draft based on things discovered when the prospect had no idea someone was watching/recording/listening. Drug use. Gang affiliation. Criminal behavior. Rape. Violence during and after games. Gambling.

Also the families of many prospects have become brazen, asking for stuff, free stuff and expensive stuff, outright, from anyone deemed a decision maker for that kind of thing. Some families have threatened to make accusations if they don't get said expensive/free stuff. Another issue is low level coaches want to move up. So you have to deal with them jockeying for a job at a higher level in exchange for this or that.

It's a total mess.

fishmike
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USA
8/2/2019  11:00 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Times have changed...

New York Knicks

Own

• 2019-2025 first round picks

• 2022-2025 second round picks

via Trade

• 2019 second round pick (via Magic, Cavaliers or Rockets) - Least favorable

• 2020 second round pick (via Hornets) - Unprotected

2021 first round pick (via Mavericks) - Two years after DAL gives 1st Rnd to ATL, DAL gives 1st Rnd to NYK - Unprotected 2021-2025

• 2021 second round pick (via Hornets) - Unprotected

2023 first round pick (via Mavericks) - At least four years after DAL gives 1st Rnd to ATL, DAL gives 1st Rnd to NYK - Protected 1-10 from 2023-2025

We got lucky in the last draft that things stayed put. That ensures we get 2 #1s from Dallas (barring a top 1-10 in 2023)

I dont know about "generational" but the 2022 will certainly have depth and many many sleepers. I dont love the HS kids coming out but there are some it just makes sense. Its up to teams to scout and develop

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Yahoo Sports: Why NBA teams are already preparing for a 'generational' 2022 draft

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