[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Is Barrett really a PG?
Author Thread
Knixkik
Posts: 34857
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
7/17/2019  9:39 AM
I saw an article on the homepage. I can’t copy it from here. I do question Barrett’s fit with DSjr and Payton. With Robinson, Randle and Morris up front, Barrett May be better utilized as a PG with a shooter alongside him. Harden and Simmons are used the same way. Shooting is a concern and unless you have a Patrick Beverley type out there, it may be better just to let Barrett be what he is, an oversized lead guard that will have the ball in his hands most of the time, either from the top of the key or using his size as a mismatch against smaller guards on the block.
AUTOADVERT
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

7/17/2019  9:43 AM
Barrett would be an Iman Shumpert level PG, meaning not very good.
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
7/17/2019  9:49 AM
No, he is not a point guard. I am praying for fans to not expect him to be one. Just because you are a good passer doesn’t make you the PG, even in position-less basketball.

His two top skills are getting to the hoops strong and taking advantage of whatever mismatches he has. He needs to start from there.

Again, his passing is great and I LOVE his chemistry with Mitch. Those two things should be utilized but in order for us to establish RJ as a threat, we need to take advantage of his biggest strengths first.....

Although that might actually be rebounding.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Knixkik
Posts: 34857
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
7/17/2019  9:58 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:No, he is not a point guard. I am praying for fans to not expect him to be one. Just because you are a good passer doesn’t make you the PG, even in position-less basketball.

His two top skills are getting to the hoops strong and taking advantage of whatever mismatches he has. He needs to start from there.

Again, his passing is great and I LOVE his chemistry with Mitch. Those two things should be utilized but in order for us to establish RJ as a threat, we need to take advantage of his biggest strengths first.....

Although that might actually be rebounding.

Yeah I would say his best skills right now are passing and rebounding. He has a ways to go to become an elite scorer but he can be a triple double threat right away because he’s such a good passer and rebounder.

martin
Posts: 67903
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
7/17/2019  10:02 AM
Welpee wrote:Barrett would be an Iman Shumpert level PG, meaning not very good.

Why do you think that?

Seems like the quite opposite to me

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
7/17/2019  10:10 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:No, he is not a point guard. I am praying for fans to not expect him to be one. Just because you are a good passer doesn’t make you the PG, even in position-less basketball.

His two top skills are getting to the hoops strong and taking advantage of whatever mismatches he has. He needs to start from there.

Again, his passing is great and I LOVE his chemistry with Mitch. Those two things should be utilized but in order for us to establish RJ as a threat, we need to take advantage of his biggest strengths first.....

Although that might actually be rebounding.

Yeah I would say his best skills right now are passing and rebounding. He has a ways to go to become an elite scorer but he can be a triple double threat right away because he’s such a good passer and rebounder.

What a lot of people don’t realize is that just because you are a good passer doesn’t mean you are a good PG. not saying RJ can’t be one.

We are doing ourselves a disservice by requiring him to be one. It’s almost as crazy as when we asked Melo to be a point forward.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
NYKBocker
Posts: 37879
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
7/17/2019  10:58 AM
Point forward ala Pippen
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
7/17/2019  11:00 AM
martin wrote:
Welpee wrote:Barrett would be an Iman Shumpert level PG, meaning not very good.

Why do you think that?

Seems like the quite opposite to me

shumpert a PG?? are you kidding me

During summer league I noticed who ever got the rebound took the ball up court. I barely ever saw anyone looking for the PG to bring it up.

ES
Nalod
Posts: 68482
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
7/17/2019  11:17 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
Welpee wrote:Barrett would be an Iman Shumpert level PG, meaning not very good.

Why do you think that?

Seems like the quite opposite to me

shumpert a PG?? are you kidding me

During summer league I noticed who ever got the rebound took the ball up court. I barely ever saw anyone looking for the PG to bring it up.

Your observations are very revealing.

technomaster
Posts: 23198
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
7/17/2019  11:26 AM
martin wrote:
Welpee wrote:Barrett would be an Iman Shumpert level PG, meaning not very good.

Why do you think that?

Seems like the quite opposite to me

I was thinking that he likes handling the ball like a PG, he makes precision reads and passes like a PG. He's a little bit like Lebron James in that he likes to be in the thick of everything on offense. He's always on the attack and puts pressure on defense. Shumpert, as much as I wanted him to be awesome as a Knick - he didn't make things happen.

He's MUCH better than Shumpert as a primary or secondary ball handler.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
blkexec
Posts: 27793
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
7/17/2019  11:28 AM
I will keep reminding everybody. It's time to bury the labels PG and Center. That's so old school.

Today, theres guards, forwards, and a new label point forwards.

Whoever rebounds the ball, can be a PG if they know how to dribble and pass. If not, they will rebound and pass to a player that can dribble and pass. It's that simple.

I think with RJs PG like skills, he fits perfect with a dynamic scorer in DSJ. I know DSJ is not a shooter, but hes a scorer. I think even better is Knox, if he can be a reliable shooter. Iggy and RJ chemistry will be huge this season as well, if Iggy can get some burn. I'm more concerned about defensive matchups....can he guard quick small guards? Big guards/ forwards? When picking a lineup, start with defense first. If RJ can guards small players, then we can have a 6'7 and up lineup....but still be small ball with Randle at center. Sky is the limit for fitz.

Like KP....we cant put RJ in a box right now. Just make sure his environment cultivates his potential. Right now he has a Draymond Green or Lebron James type impact. No hes not the next bron....hes the next RJ. But where hes similar is he can do a little of everything right now. With time and maturity, all those skills will improve and he will do everything at an above average skill level.....with potential to be our home grown star player.

I said this in college, he might be the best player on that duke team. So far he looks like a great all around player with high IQ....and willingness to get better. Cant ask for anything else. Sit back and enjoy the ride. PG labels are in the past. The NBA is just guards and forwards. Payton might be a throw back PG, but it's still rare in today's nba.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Knixkik
Posts: 34857
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
7/17/2019  12:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2019  12:15 PM
blkexec wrote:I will keep reminding everybody. It's time to bury the labels PG and Center. That's so old school.

Today, theres guards, forwards, and a new label point forwards.

Whoever rebounds the ball, can be a PG if they know how to dribble and pass. If not, they will rebound and pass to a player that can dribble and pass. It's that simple.

I think with RJs PG like skills, he fits perfect with a dynamic scorer in DSJ. I know DSJ is not a shooter, but hes a scorer. I think even better is Knox, if he can be a reliable shooter. Iggy and RJ chemistry will be huge this season as well, if Iggy can get some burn. I'm more concerned about defensive matchups....can he guard quick small guards? Big guards/ forwards? When picking a lineup, start with defense first. If RJ can guards small players, then we can have a 6'7 and up lineup....but still be small ball with Randle at center. Sky is the limit for fitz.

Like KP....we cant put RJ in a box right now. Just make sure his environment cultivates his potential. Right now he has a Draymond Green or Lebron James type impact. No hes not the next bron....hes the next RJ. But where hes similar is he can do a little of everything right now. With time and maturity, all those skills will improve and he will do everything at an above average skill level.....with potential to be our home grown star player.

I said this in college, he might be the best player on that duke team. So far he looks like a great all around player with high IQ....and willingness to get better. Cant ask for anything else. Sit back and enjoy the ride. PG labels are in the past. The NBA is just guards and forwards. Payton might be a throw back PG, but it's still rare in today's nba.

Being labeled as a PG is more about who’s next to you. The question is what fits better next to Barrett, another playmaker or a shooter. I don’t love the DSjr fit next to Barrett. They can both become better shooters, but never be a great shooter. We may have to choose between them because Their skillsets are so similar , and the obvious choice is Barrett. We need players surrounding Barrett and Robinson who can impact the game without the ball in order to maximize their development. I think Iggy is unique and fits great, but given the roster makeup I see him spending a lot of time in the gleague this year.

dwiley20
Posts: 20756
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 2/18/2014
Member: #5755

7/17/2019  12:27 PM
Yes he is, just not full time.
BigDaddyG
Posts: 37419
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

7/17/2019  12:55 PM
dwiley20 wrote:Yes he is, just not full time.

Yep, give him spot minutes here and there depending on the matchup. I don't see him as full-time point guard, but he can certainly make plays. Go down the line and you'll find few a guys like Jalen Rose who are good enough to make plays, but not good enough to handle other point guard responsibilities. The only reason to stick a young guard there full-time in the beginning is because he's too weak to guard other guards defensively. This isn't the case with RJ.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27152
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

7/17/2019  1:12 PM
Knixkik wrote:I saw an article on the homepage. I can’t copy it from here. I do question Barrett’s fit with DSjr and Payton. With Robinson, Randle and Morris up front, Barrett May be better utilized as a PG with a shooter alongside him. Harden and Simmons are used the same way. Shooting is a concern and unless you have a Patrick Beverley type out there, it may be better just to let Barrett be what he is, an oversized lead guard that will have the ball in his hands most of the time, either from the top of the key or using his size as a mismatch against smaller guards on the block.

As we found out with Frank, saying someone is better suited to PG because they cant shoot and like to pass won't last. In terms of RJs preference, of course he prefers to have the ball in his hands. All bball players play better with the ball in their hands. Specially young ones that are accostumed to being the go to guy. RJ will need to get better at playing without the ball. Will need to get better at 3pt shooting. So will EVERY rookie that wants to excel in this league. Will he have the ball in his hands if he gets rebound or running the floor? Sure. So will EVERY other player that can dribble in the floor. However, do not think he was drafted to be our PG.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
fishmike
Posts: 53040
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
7/17/2019  1:21 PM
blkexec wrote:I will keep reminding everybody. It's time to bury the labels PG and Center. That's so old school.

Today, theres guards, forwards, and a new label point forwards.

Whoever rebounds the ball, can be a PG if they know how to dribble and pass. If not, they will rebound and pass to a player that can dribble and pass. It's that simple.

I think with RJs PG like skills, he fits perfect with a dynamic scorer in DSJ. I know DSJ is not a shooter, but hes a scorer. I think even better is Knox, if he can be a reliable shooter. Iggy and RJ chemistry will be huge this season as well, if Iggy can get some burn. I'm more concerned about defensive matchups....can he guard quick small guards? Big guards/ forwards? When picking a lineup, start with defense first. If RJ can guards small players, then we can have a 6'7 and up lineup....but still be small ball with Randle at center. Sky is the limit for fitz.

Like KP....we cant put RJ in a box right now. Just make sure his environment cultivates his potential. Right now he has a Draymond Green or Lebron James type impact. No hes not the next bron....hes the next RJ. But where hes similar is he can do a little of everything right now. With time and maturity, all those skills will improve and he will do everything at an above average skill level.....with potential to be our home grown star player.

I said this in college, he might be the best player on that duke team. So far he looks like a great all around player with high IQ....and willingness to get better. Cant ask for anything else. Sit back and enjoy the ride. PG labels are in the past. The NBA is just guards and forwards. Payton might be a throw back PG, but it's still rare in today's nba.

Yes the labels have changed but the roles are the same. A rim protector still has value. Someone who can run or be the key facilitator of the offense is still critical.

I think people look at the elite teams and quote things like positionless basketball but you have to remember those squads have elite talent and elite chemistry. If this squad is going to be successful it will need to start with good guard play and especially good PG play. If there is a time where at any time 2-3 guys could be "PG" that is great but we are nowhere near that level of being established. Until that day comes we need a floor general and how good he is will likely be the pulse of the team. We have size, guys who defend, shooters... what kind of system and offense are we running?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EwingsGlass
Posts: 26035
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 4/29/2005
Member: #893
USA
7/17/2019  2:10 PM
With Lebron, Harden and Simmons all lining up in the PG slot, I see this becoming more prevalent. I see the major opposition to this coming from PG traditionalists who judge a PG by his height. Where, as Magic proved, quality player can play any position. So, O could see Barrett slotting at PG depending on the matchup. Maybe just for good matchups until we see how it plays out. But, I can’t see Smith guarding Harden or Lebron.
This is the Randle.
blkexec
Posts: 27793
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
7/17/2019  2:19 PM
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:I will keep reminding everybody. It's time to bury the labels PG and Center. That's so old school.

Today, theres guards, forwards, and a new label point forwards.

Whoever rebounds the ball, can be a PG if they know how to dribble and pass. If not, they will rebound and pass to a player that can dribble and pass. It's that simple.

I think with RJs PG like skills, he fits perfect with a dynamic scorer in DSJ. I know DSJ is not a shooter, but hes a scorer. I think even better is Knox, if he can be a reliable shooter. Iggy and RJ chemistry will be huge this season as well, if Iggy can get some burn. I'm more concerned about defensive matchups....can he guard quick small guards? Big guards/ forwards? When picking a lineup, start with defense first. If RJ can guards small players, then we can have a 6'7 and up lineup....but still be small ball with Randle at center. Sky is the limit for fitz.

Like KP....we cant put RJ in a box right now. Just make sure his environment cultivates his potential. Right now he has a Draymond Green or Lebron James type impact. No hes not the next bron....hes the next RJ. But where hes similar is he can do a little of everything right now. With time and maturity, all those skills will improve and he will do everything at an above average skill level.....with potential to be our home grown star player.

I said this in college, he might be the best player on that duke team. So far he looks like a great all around player with high IQ....and willingness to get better. Cant ask for anything else. Sit back and enjoy the ride. PG labels are in the past. The NBA is just guards and forwards. Payton might be a throw back PG, but it's still rare in today's nba.

Yes the labels have changed but the roles are the same. A rim protector still has value. Someone who can run or be the key facilitator of the offense is still critical.

I think people look at the elite teams and quote things like positionless basketball but you have to remember those squads have elite talent and elite chemistry. If this squad is going to be successful it will need to start with good guard play and especially good PG play. If there is a time where at any time 2-3 guys could be "PG" that is great but we are nowhere near that level of being established. Until that day comes we need a floor general and how good he is will likely be the pulse of the team. We have size, guys who defend, shooters... what kind of system and offense are we running?

Agree...it's not about labels, but the skills of those old labels still exist. I agree....For example, Wooten has the size of a SF....But he's our best rim protector next to Mitch. DSJ has the size of a PG, but he's our best above the rim dunker / playmaker on the team.

This is why I like Fitz. He doesn't put players in a box. He allows the player to create his own box. This works for some, not for others like Frank. But for RJ, and as you read about Mudiay....This coaching style is perfect. Fitz will let RJ be RJ, and build around him. Let Mitch be Mitch, and build around them. We all agreeing and saying the same things, just from a different perspective.

RJ can still be a triple double threat as a SF. Wooten (assuming he's even on the team) for example, can still be a rim protector, an not play center. So maybe the question is, do we let RJ play like he naturally play? Which should be the thread title, but sounds silly when you phrase it that way. And thats my point, RJ will give you all around performance and impacts on the game. He needs the ball. This is why when you build a team, you can't have too many players on the court at the same time, that need the ball to be affective. Right now, and probably in the near future, RJ needs the ball. The difference between Melo and Z bo ball hogging the ball. RJ will give you triple doubles if you give him the ball. He's the only ball hog on the team who can and will give you that.

Trier needs the ball, but he's not giving you triple doubles. He's trying to get a bucket. Knox is trying to get a bucket. DSJ is trying to get a bucket. You have to make sure you surround RJ with guys that don't need the ball to be affective, which is why Mitch is so important. Which is why Frank can be so important, if it wasn't for outside influence trying to make him what he's not. But there aren't enough players in the league like Klay or Ray Allen or Reggie Miller....who adds value without having the ball. Thats a league problem, not just a knick problem. So you have to make certain decisions that may not make since, but could work, if players change their game.

Majority of the vets we added, do not need to pound the ball to be impactful. So far, we are heading in the right direction and why I'm optomistic this year. This is also why I think Trier should come off the bench, so he can pound the ball and be our microwave 6th man and closer, if needed.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
fishmike
Posts: 53040
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
7/17/2019  2:22 PM
blkexec wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:I will keep reminding everybody. It's time to bury the labels PG and Center. That's so old school.

Today, theres guards, forwards, and a new label point forwards.

Whoever rebounds the ball, can be a PG if they know how to dribble and pass. If not, they will rebound and pass to a player that can dribble and pass. It's that simple.

I think with RJs PG like skills, he fits perfect with a dynamic scorer in DSJ. I know DSJ is not a shooter, but hes a scorer. I think even better is Knox, if he can be a reliable shooter. Iggy and RJ chemistry will be huge this season as well, if Iggy can get some burn. I'm more concerned about defensive matchups....can he guard quick small guards? Big guards/ forwards? When picking a lineup, start with defense first. If RJ can guards small players, then we can have a 6'7 and up lineup....but still be small ball with Randle at center. Sky is the limit for fitz.

Like KP....we cant put RJ in a box right now. Just make sure his environment cultivates his potential. Right now he has a Draymond Green or Lebron James type impact. No hes not the next bron....hes the next RJ. But where hes similar is he can do a little of everything right now. With time and maturity, all those skills will improve and he will do everything at an above average skill level.....with potential to be our home grown star player.

I said this in college, he might be the best player on that duke team. So far he looks like a great all around player with high IQ....and willingness to get better. Cant ask for anything else. Sit back and enjoy the ride. PG labels are in the past. The NBA is just guards and forwards. Payton might be a throw back PG, but it's still rare in today's nba.

Yes the labels have changed but the roles are the same. A rim protector still has value. Someone who can run or be the key facilitator of the offense is still critical.

I think people look at the elite teams and quote things like positionless basketball but you have to remember those squads have elite talent and elite chemistry. If this squad is going to be successful it will need to start with good guard play and especially good PG play. If there is a time where at any time 2-3 guys could be "PG" that is great but we are nowhere near that level of being established. Until that day comes we need a floor general and how good he is will likely be the pulse of the team. We have size, guys who defend, shooters... what kind of system and offense are we running?

Agree...it's not about labels, but the skills of those old labels still exist. I agree....For example, Wooten has the size of a SF....But he's our best rim protector next to Mitch. DSJ has the size of a PG, but he's our best above the rim dunker / playmaker on the team.

This is why I like Fitz. He doesn't put players in a box. He allows the player to create his own box. This works for some, not for others like Frank. But for RJ, and as you read about Mudiay....This coaching style is perfect. Fitz will let RJ be RJ, and build around him. Let Mitch be Mitch, and build around them. We all agreeing and saying the same things, just from a different perspective.

RJ can still be a triple double threat as a SF. Wooten (assuming he's even on the team) for example, can still be a rim protector, an not play center. So maybe the question is, do we let RJ play like he naturally play? Which should be the thread title, but sounds silly when you phrase it that way. And thats my point, RJ will give you all around performance and impacts on the game. He needs the ball. This is why when you build a team, you can't have too many players on the court at the same time, that need the ball to be affective. Right now, and probably in the near future, RJ needs the ball. The difference between Melo and Z bo ball hogging the ball. RJ will give you triple doubles if you give him the ball. He's the only ball hog on the team who can and will give you that.

Trier needs the ball, but he's not giving you triple doubles. He's trying to get a bucket. Knox is trying to get a bucket. DSJ is trying to get a bucket. You have to make sure you surround RJ with guys that don't need the ball to be affective, which is why Mitch is so important. Which is why Frank can be so important, if it wasn't for outside influence trying to make him what he's not. But there aren't enough players in the league like Klay or Ray Allen or Reggie Miller....who adds value without having the ball. Thats a league problem, not just a knick problem. So you have to make certain decisions that may not make since, but could work, if players change their game.

Majority of the vets we added, do not need to pound the ball to be impactful. So far, we are heading in the right direction and why I'm optomistic this year. This is also why I think Trier should come off the bench, so he can pound the ball and be our microwave 6th man and closer, if needed.

yea man! same here. I am super optimistic as well. Doesnt mean I am expecting playoffs but I like the guys they are adding and the potential chemistry. Fizdale has a tough job but it should also be the challenge every coach wants. I am really rooting for Fiz to succeed. The thought of another coaching regime is tough to stomach
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Welpee
Posts: 23162
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

7/17/2019  3:17 PM
martin wrote:
Welpee wrote:Barrett would be an Iman Shumpert level PG, meaning not very good.

Why do you think that?

Seems like the quite opposite to me

When Shump was drafted he was projected to be a pg, but we found out quickly he wasn't equipped for the position. I think the same would happen if we tried to fit Barrett into that PG role. Square peg/round hole scenario. Whoever made the Pippen/point forward comparison is probably more accurate.
Is Barrett really a PG?

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy