jrodmc wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Marv wrote:one other thing - i can’t believe people say phil had the right idea about trading him. It would have been the worst idea ever. Immediately following phil’s FUBAR-level handling of melo he’s going to add to it jettisoning kp??? dolan was right to can him then. he was a rich assclown to feed him additional millions before doing so tho.

Count me as someone who applauded Phil's intuition. Melo was blind to basketball, drunk on money and fame.

KP - who knows what kind of perverse stuff was happening behind the scenes - trading him probably wasn't a whimsical notion. I don't miss him.

Look I was a big KP fan. I defended him even back when he skipped that exit meeting which many people were bashing him for doing. ironically those same people are now singing his praises lol. I mean I admit I was never a big Melo fan but I give him credit for still meeting with Phil and still wanting to be here. KP and his dickhead brother just wanted to bolt. I do believe the story that KP basically said trade me or im not gonna sign any QO or anything like that. Knicks had little choice. KP should of been more of a man and stuck with us.

Boggles the mind that people manage to **** on Melo, who single-handedly dragged this **** show franchise to the playoffs year after year with a conglomeration of misfit, broken toys and set all sorts of records while here (including things like rebounding and assists, which our heralded Unicorn didn't bother with when not in a suit).

KP was KP. Freak NBA-sized specimen that broke far too often while here. Couldn't stay healthy long enough to drag a team to the playoffs. Then wants to be maxed out after ripping his ACL. Too bad. For us, and for him. Enjoy Dallas. In case anyone hasn't noticed, good bad or indifferent, his career so far is trending towards Ryan Gomes, Louie Orr and Glenn Robinson. Truly exciting. Yeah, yeah, it's only three years. And counting.

Applauding Phil's intuition. Can that include his Noah contract intuition? Can it include fubaring up Melo and KP and then ****ting in his own food bowl in the press thereafter like he's the shadow host of The View? All before stumbling off to Montana with his million-dollars-a-month for nothing?

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

You ignore KPs contributions to losing. If KP stay healthy and plays like that allstar that we claim he is for more than 3 months of the season. Then Knicks are making moves to be a contender instead of tanking.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

You ignore KPs contributions to losing. If KP stay healthy and plays like that allstar that we claim he is for more than 3 months of the season. Then Knicks are making moves to be a contender instead of tanking.

I don't think I'm ignoring it. He was too skinny and weak and faded. Settler for too many outside shots.

All fixable with a good training and coaching staff. He was far from perfect; so is Luca, Donovan Mitchell, KAT, Ben

On balance he had a reasonable chance of being an elite player, top 5 maybe. Certainly an impact player. You need to nurture those guys (not piss them off) and kiss ass a little too

It's a fact of life that many of the most successful people on the planet have huge insecurities. It's those insecurities that drive them to get an A in class instead of an A; it's those insecurities that drive them to wake up earlier to practice more or get a gym session in. Some of them can even be a bit thin skinned to criticism, e.g., over-react seemingly obvious to their own success.

Any decent team (i.e., need not be genius) would have appreciated that KP could be a generational talent and no less than an impact player and would have acted accordingly. And no, sending Fizzdale to go eat some Galumpki is not enough

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

You ignore KPs contributions to losing. If KP stay healthy and plays like that allstar that we claim he is for more than 3 months of the season. Then Knicks are making moves to be a contender instead of tanking.

I don't think I'm ignoring it. He was too skinny and weak and faded. Settler for too many outside shots.

All fixable with a good training and coaching staff. He was far from perfect; so is Luca, Donovan Mitchell, KAT, Ben

On balance he had a reasonable chance of being an elite player, top 5 maybe. Certainly an impact player. You need to nurture those guys (not piss them off) and kiss ass a little too

It's a fact of life that many of the most successful people on the planet have huge insecurities. It's those insecurities that drive them to get an A in class instead of an A; it's those insecurities that drive them to wake up earlier to practice more or get a gym session in. Some of them can even be a bit thin skinned to criticism, e.g., over-react seemingly obvious to their own success.

Any decent team (i.e., need not be genius) would have appreciated that KP could be a generational talent and no less than an impact player and would have acted accordingly. And no, sending Fizzdale to go eat some Galumpki is not enough

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

MS wrote:It's only three games put...

KP is averaging 26.3pts 5.5rbs 3.3assists on 46% from the field. He may get injured, but it would be fun watching him and Mitch defend the rim, two players couldn't compliment each other more.

it always bothered me that KP could never sniff 10 rpg, let alone 8. Teh guy is a unique talent but when you expect Luka to average more rebounds, well, that would irritate me as a fan.

this comment has nothing to do with you MS, but upon reflection, it appears Janis and KP were smart for escaping this dumpster fire, because that's what the 2019-20 Knicks are

your not going to get 10 rebounds out of Mitch either, because he is looking to swat every shot, just like KP, not to mention, KP is more of a perimeter player who won't get the benefits of put backs.

But if your a smart GM/Prez, you hire or trade for a rebond a specialist to play next to him.

Almost none of our players(since mills has gotten here) compliments each others skill set.

We basically got trash for melo, trash for KP, waived Kanter (the key piece in the melo trade, and with an expiring contract)trash for Willy.

we should be looking at

rj
KD
kp

as a core

We got mitch for Melo...that alone made it a GREAT trade. We get it dude you hate this FO lol. Look im not saying they have bene terrific but given all that circumstances I like a lot of their moves. Even this year we have talent enough to at least be fun. We should be 2-1. Like I said I like Fizdale and I think he has good qualities but he needs to implement a system and he needs to be sto allowing players to have free reign

Never agreed that Melo was as bad as most think. Always gave him credit for One, wanting to come here, Two, giving us a great season in which we were reminded what it felt like to win. However, agree that it was a good trade to get anything in return. Specially because it resulted in Mitch and other pieces. If those turn out to be anything of value, we will see. But it was time to move on.

In terms of system from Fiz. Think this comes up a lot. People I talk to about college basketball and systems being implemented always bring up how bad Pro Basketball systems are. How its all one on one basketball. Which are fair points. Problem is that MOST NBA teams are running the same thing. I have told many fans that complain about the NBA to just go start watching college basketball. Not trying to be rude to them but being realistic as to expectations for what modern basketball is. That is isolation plays, PnR with two players and one cutter and drive and pass out for multiple 3pt shots. There is just not much Harvard back cut systems in place. Nor read and react movement seen in college. I don't know if its because you just have such a disparity in talent with most teams. Or because the NBA pushes the narrative of the benefits of establishing a superstar to help in slaes and merchandising.

Think its no secret that the Knicks were always a blue collar team. Watched by blue collar people. Hard working guys the fight every day. Many loyal to working together as groups. Those are the players that we all seem to like. We love hard working defensive guys. We like when the ball moves and we all work together. We like team work and no ONE star. Pretty sure every fan would agree that this is the team most like to watch. As I do. Problem is that is just not what the NBA is. SO don't see the value of expecting it to change.

Side note, you look at the GS Warriors. They had several stars that made it easy to share the ball and trust team mates. Although they did not really have a complex offensive scheme. Basic drive a kick offense with occasional ISO with Durant. But fans always mention them as the epitome of team oriented offense. If you notice it is no longer working with lower level talent. I will bet that even they go to a more ISO type offense with Curry now that they are struggling and no longer have all those stars on the team.

I think some of it is more historical. In pros no zone defense for so long. If you had a talent mismatch with a guy who could dribble you maximize that advantage

It's a dumb strategy though if you don't have that guy

That's why i have not been critical of Fizz running this offense through RJ. Some of the best offenses now are not run through a classical point guard: Harden, Luca, Giannis, Kawhi, Lebron, Derozan in Toronto. You end up with layups, FTs or open 3s

Having said that, the ball still needs to move. Every time it stalls you're just giving the defense a better chance to set and organize

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

You ignore KPs contributions to losing. If KP stay healthy and plays like that allstar that we claim he is for more than 3 months of the season. Then Knicks are making moves to be a contender instead of tanking.

This is the problem with the fan base. IRRATIONAL EXPECTATIONS! Please tell me how KP, by himself, unless you can list the high level players signed on the roster, should have propelled us to the Playoffs? This is some movie hero type ****. I mean come man, do you guys see the **** players we have had? Most either on the end of some NBA roster, G league or not in the league

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

You ignore KPs contributions to losing. If KP stay healthy and plays like that allstar that we claim he is for more than 3 months of the season. Then Knicks are making moves to be a contender instead of tanking.

I don't think I'm ignoring it. He was too skinny and weak and faded. Settler for too many outside shots.

All fixable with a good training and coaching staff. He was far from perfect; so is Luca, Donovan Mitchell, KAT, Ben

On balance he had a reasonable chance of being an elite player, top 5 maybe. Certainly an impact player. You need to nurture those guys (not piss them off) and kiss ass a little too

It's a fact of life that many of the most successful people on the planet have huge insecurities. It's those insecurities that drive them to get an A in class instead of an A; it's those insecurities that drive them to wake up earlier to practice more or get a gym session in. Some of them can even be a bit thin skinned to criticism, e.g., over-react seemingly obvious to their own success.

Any decent team (i.e., need not be genius) would have appreciated that KP could be a generational talent and no less than an impact player and would have acted accordingly. And no, sending Fizzdale to go eat some Galumpki is not enough

From hearing Perry and Mills interview at the time of the trade. They stated that they tried but couldn't make KP happy which pushed them to believe that he was going to force his way out eventually. He then solidified their fears with the meeting (that they could have had in Jan and worked on a resolution. Rather than him postponing the meeting until calling for one a week before the dealine in a calculated power play).

KP is viewed as more valuable a commodity than the Knicks FO so reguardless if he is right or wrong some will side with him. Im just going by the right or wrong aspect reguardless of value or talent level. And KP did the Knicks dirty.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

You ignore KPs contributions to losing. If KP stay healthy and plays like that allstar that we claim he is for more than 3 months of the season. Then Knicks are making moves to be a contender instead of tanking.

I don't think I'm ignoring it. He was too skinny and weak and faded. Settler for too many outside shots.

All fixable with a good training and coaching staff. He was far from perfect; so is Luca, Donovan Mitchell, KAT, Ben

On balance he had a reasonable chance of being an elite player, top 5 maybe. Certainly an impact player. You need to nurture those guys (not piss them off) and kiss ass a little too

It's a fact of life that many of the most successful people on the planet have huge insecurities. It's those insecurities that drive them to get an A in class instead of an A; it's those insecurities that drive them to wake up earlier to practice more or get a gym session in. Some of them can even be a bit thin skinned to criticism, e.g., over-react seemingly obvious to their own success.

Any decent team (i.e., need not be genius) would have appreciated that KP could be a generational talent and no less than an impact player and would have acted accordingly. And no, sending Fizzdale to go eat some Galumpki is not enough

From hearing Perry and Mills interview at the time of the trade. They stated that they tried but couldn't make KP happy which pushed them to believe that he was going to force his way out eventually. He then solidified their fears with the meeting (that they could have had in Jan and worked on a resolution. Rather than him postponing the meeting until calling for one a week before the dealine in a calculated power play).

KP is viewed as more valuable a commodity than the Knicks FO so reguardless if he is right or wrong some will side with him. Im just going by the right or wrong aspect reguardless of value or talent level. And KP did the Knicks dirty.

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Agree. What was irrational was expecting KP to have infinite patience. The team was going backwards last year. Yes tanking is one thing. Playing YMCA ball is another

They also wanted him to trust them that he would be taken care of financially. That would have worked if he trusted them intrinsically, but (a) they started to say one thing and do another (e.g., where about two way players who pass the ball) and (b) Fizz started saying stupid things about his health.

Add in the lack of suck-up and he wanted out. We were willing to give JR's brother a roster spot, but our european unicorn can't get an audience with the owner?!?

The team got what it deserved. wHat I don't understand is why the Knicks fanbase has be tormented worse than Job (from the bible)

You ignore KPs contributions to losing. If KP stay healthy and plays like that allstar that we claim he is for more than 3 months of the season. Then Knicks are making moves to be a contender instead of tanking.

This is the problem with the fan base. IRRATIONAL EXPECTATIONS! Please tell me how KP, by himself, unless you can list the high level players signed on the roster, should have propelled us to the Playoffs? This is some movie hero type ****. I mean come man, do you guys see the **** players we have had? Most either on the end of some NBA roster, G league or not in the league

I don't have the expectations that KP alone would lead us to the playoffs. I am saying KP got hurt often and had months of poor play. Thats not a resume that matches KP talking about he wants out because he is tired of Knicks losing ways. WHILE HE MISSES THE SEASON IN REHAB.

If KP doesn't get injured and doesn't fade in Dec. Knicks thought process isn't toward tanking. Its probably making a deal sacrificing future draft capital to net a proven guy next to him. They might have looked to flip the Knox pick or something.