fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree but until we see what these draft picks become, we don't know what we got for him.

well thats cute... but we gave up all star franchise talent for doo doo. Titles are won by teams and players that can do special things. A team with KP as a key part can do special things. He's just a part but a special part and the hardest part to find. I would love to be wrong, but the KP trade was massive set back in this process. There is no happy-cute way to spin it. The only way the KP trade works is if the cap space yielded us star players. It didnt. We rolled the dice and made the best move we thought we could. I get it. Right now Mavs are looking like geniuses.

so how do u think it would have played out if we didn’t trade him and he bolts the team to rehab in europe as he publically threatened? do we later get a better deal for him? does he do a turnaround and sign with us?

There are teams and organizations that seem to be able to manage challenging but exceptional players. The KP situation struck me as fixable. He works hard at basketball. His family are a problem... or are they? We dont know yet. If we never hear about this again it was the Knicks. If he's a pain in the ass in Texas then we see the problem.

To me, KP is worth much more than anything we traded him for. Maybe when Fizdale visited him KP hated him. We dont know. I would love to know what the straw that broke the relationship was. The salt is especially strong with RJ here. He's really looking the dynamic scorer you put around KP/Mitch up front to build a team that competes for a title.

If Im the Knicks, you deal with whatever it is they are asking for and make it work. Resign KP. We didnt hear much about Fizdale's visit to Latvia in the summer. A few months into a season where KP isnt playing he's like I WANT OUT. It sucks because he's the only talent we have had that you see on a court and think one day he could be part of a death line up like the Warriors used to trot out there...

It has a look of a huge set back while the Knicks spend the next few years trying to add impact players next to RJ...

Would it shock you if KP spoke to Gasol about Fizdale and basically swayed by it. There is some truths to Fizdale not liking Euro players. Hell look at the way he treats Frank. Didn’t play him knowing his mom was visiting and wasn’t like the Knicks were playing for playoffs. Giving him 14 second to end the half. Bringing him ice cold after sitting out the first half, dog housing him for the slightest mistakes. Double standards everywhere.

See, this is where you float an idea, then let that idea fuel your agenda which is pro-Frank and anti-Fizdale/Knicks. Do you know if KP and Gasol spoke? Or is being on the same continent "close enough?" Did you know Frank was wildly inconsistent and had his minutes fluctuate under Horncek as well?

The problem with talking to you is its simply impossible for you to grasp that Frank and his play are actually part of the equation. Frank had one moment in the preseason he looked good, and that was vs. the Hawks when he was defending Trae and as I recall Frank still had a very bad offensive showing there.

People love the IDEA of Frank... a team first defensive stud who sets up bigs for easy shots and locks down PG, but he's not that guy and has never shown he's that guy short of some flashes here and there. I want him to be that guy also, but he has not shown that. With no DSjr tonight hopefully tonight he gets a block of time and shows something.

I am not a Fizdale fan but this notion that Fizdale should just pick one of these guys to lead us and that guy should be playing well is odd.

Fish your just so uninformed and years of Knicksdom you should have a healthy grasp of the Knicks.
https://nypost.com/2018/11/24/marc-gasol-reveals-exactly-how-he-feels-about-david-fizdale/
Believe what you will but as soon as the Knicks hired Fizdale. I am damn sure KP and his Brother called Gasol.

Marv wrote:one other thing - i can’t believe people say phil had the right idea about trading him. It would have been the worst idea ever. Immediately following phil’s FUBAR-level handling of melo he’s going to add to it jettisoning kp??? dolan was right to can him then. he was a rich assclown to feed him additional millions before doing so tho.

Count me as someone who applauded Phil's intuition. Melo was blind to basketball, drunk on money and fame.

KP - who knows what kind of perverse stuff was happening behind the scenes - trading him probably wasn't a whimsical notion. I don't miss him.

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:We didn't dump Lebron in his prime - we tried to make the best of a difficult situation with an up and coming young talent who didn't want to play here anymore. Most Knick fans suffer from the years of historical pain and it impacts the way we view the present reality. We act like a guy who hasn't gotten laid for years and then meets a halfway decent girl and overvalues her and ignores her faults. She cheats, treats you bad and wants to break up.

When we finally end things she moves on while we stay stuck that "she was the one that got away" and are critical of ourselves that we made a bad decision. We ignore that there is blame on both sides and forgot that nothing matters if both sides don't wish to continue being together. Yes the past did probably impact KP's feelings about staying here but it doesn't change the outcome. When you break up with someone you're supposed to take time off and reflect on yourself (before starting a new relationship) - think the FO is trying to do that for the first time (authentically). They didn't offer other below max players a long-term max deal, but they did gamble on DSJr becoming our PG (not looking great so far) and they gambled on the cap space turning into 2 mega stars (had to go to Plan B).

Not sure about Fiz's long-term coaching capabilities but let's give them some time to see if we are moving in the right direction - maybe 1/2 through the season we can assess and look for an increase in win total %, RJ's progression as a rookie, better team play/passing, team defense, etc...

There are some positives - RJ looks like a player, Elfrid is stable and probably a good fit with this unbalanced team, Knox is shooting more efficiently as a bench player, Trier has that 6th man spark teams need, Morris has toughness that we haven't seen in decades

spare me the ex girl friend comparisons... One team looks like its built on two young superstars, is well coached and trending up. Then there is us. The only thing that makes the KP trade work is getting star talent in FA which we failed on. Randle is a nice player and they signed good guys for the plan B but this is trade is a bad look for the Knicks. Anything else is spin. We are at square 1 with RJ. Mitch looks good. Gonna be a long few years

The FA haul has trade value that has yet to be realized before we close the books on that aspect of the KP deal.

Give me one trade that this F/O has hit a home run on..

Every trade has set us back 2 yrs, that's why it's the start of a rebuild for the last 3 seasons

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree but until we see what these draft picks become, we don't know what we got for him.

well thats cute... but we gave up all star franchise talent for doo doo. Titles are won by teams and players that can do special things. A team with KP as a key part can do special things. He's just a part but a special part and the hardest part to find. I would love to be wrong, but the KP trade was massive set back in this process. There is no happy-cute way to spin it. The only way the KP trade works is if the cap space yielded us star players. It didnt. We rolled the dice and made the best move we thought we could. I get it. Right now Mavs are looking like geniuses.

so how do u think it would have played out if we didn’t trade him and he bolts the team to rehab in europe as he publically threatened? do we later get a better deal for him? does he do a turnaround and sign with us?

There are teams and organizations that seem to be able to manage challenging but exceptional players. The KP situation struck me as fixable. He works hard at basketball. His family are a problem... or are they? We dont know yet. If we never hear about this again it was the Knicks. If he's a pain in the ass in Texas then we see the problem.

To me, KP is worth much more than anything we traded him for. Maybe when Fizdale visited him KP hated him. We dont know. I would love to know what the straw that broke the relationship was. The salt is especially strong with RJ here. He's really looking the dynamic scorer you put around KP/Mitch up front to build a team that competes for a title.

If Im the Knicks, you deal with whatever it is they are asking for and make it work. Resign KP. We didnt hear much about Fizdale's visit to Latvia in the summer. A few months into a season where KP isnt playing he's like I WANT OUT. It sucks because he's the only talent we have had that you see on a court and think one day he could be part of a death line up like the Warriors used to trot out there...

It has a look of a huge set back while the Knicks spend the next few years trying to add impact players next to RJ...

Would it shock you if KP spoke to Gasol about Fizdale and basically swayed by it. There is some truths to Fizdale not liking Euro players. Hell look at the way he treats Frank. Didn’t play him knowing his mom was visiting and wasn’t like the Knicks were playing for playoffs. Giving him 14 second to end the half. Bringing him ice cold after sitting out the first half, dog housing him for the slightest mistakes. Double standards everywhere.

See, this is where you float an idea, then let that idea fuel your agenda which is pro-Frank and anti-Fizdale/Knicks. Do you know if KP and Gasol spoke? Or is being on the same continent "close enough?" Did you know Frank was wildly inconsistent and had his minutes fluctuate under Horncek as well?

The problem with talking to you is its simply impossible for you to grasp that Frank and his play are actually part of the equation. Frank had one moment in the preseason he looked good, and that was vs. the Hawks when he was defending Trae and as I recall Frank still had a very bad offensive showing there.

People love the IDEA of Frank... a team first defensive stud who sets up bigs for easy shots and locks down PG, but he's not that guy and has never shown he's that guy short of some flashes here and there. I want him to be that guy also, but he has not shown that. With no DSjr tonight hopefully tonight he gets a block of time and shows something.

I am not a Fizdale fan but this notion that Fizdale should just pick one of these guys to lead us and that guy should be playing well is odd.

Fish your just so uninformed and years of Knicksdom you should have a healthy grasp of the Knicks.
https://nypost.com/2018/11/24/marc-gasol-reveals-exactly-how-he-feels-about-david-fizdale/
Believe what you will but as soon as the Knicks hired Fizdale. I am damn sure KP and his Brother called Gasol.

Marc Gasol wrote:Gasol shared a slice of what he told Porzingis.

“He asked me what I thought,’’ Gasol added. “I said, ‘He’s a great coach and you guys are going to do great with him.’ For sure [he’s got a big personality]. He’s a guy that you watch him, he has that gravity that attracts people. He’s good at it.”

Fizdale wrote:“We were trying to win. We were just competing. Now it’s water under the bridge and we’re really cool now. I hope I contributed something to his game and to his abilities.”

Marc Gasol wrote:“Without a doubt,’’ Gasol said of Fizdale’s influence on him becoming a 3-point threat. “And I’m a better player because of David, too. I can say that 100 percent.
“Even though last year was really tough for everyone, I’m a better player this year than I was last year and a lot had to do with him.”

So VMart... lets recap: Vmart: "Gasol told KP to stay away and turned KP off Knicks" -posts article as proof
Reality: Article actually shows they patched things up with Gasol crediting Fizdale for making him a better player.

Thanks. This was fun.

fwk00 wrote:

Marv wrote:one other thing - i can’t believe people say phil had the right idea about trading him. It would have been the worst idea ever. Immediately following phil’s FUBAR-level handling of melo he’s going to add to it jettisoning kp??? dolan was right to can him then. he was a rich assclown to feed him additional millions before doing so tho.

Count me as someone who applauded Phil's intuition. Melo was blind to basketball, drunk on money and fame.

KP - who knows what kind of perverse stuff was happening behind the scenes - trading him probably wasn't a whimsical notion. I don't miss him.

You just said nothing about reality. This **** is all in your mind. Reality is that we gave up our prized draft pick due to egos. Phil's ego could not deal with a young player refusing to meet with him a the end of the year. Albeit a young foolish move but it would take an adult experienced FO guy to understand a young kids frustration an shortcomings in working it out for the sake of the franchise. Then you had ego of Mills and probably Dolan. KP's brother wanted the Knicks to give some positions to "KP's entourage". Or at least that was Fat Bermans insider ****. So Mills ego could not take some sideline agent telling him he needed to take care of his guys. I mean after all, this was the Knicks, the greatest organization in the NBA. Its not like this type of favor is given to other franchise guys. Unless you look at how the did it for Melo's guys, STAT's guys and even JR ****ing Smith's brother. Oh yeah, and done for just about every franchise player in the league.

Bottom line is i am sure KP and his brother did some things that pissed people off. But considering the Knicks are the laughing stock of the NBA and have only had ONE good year since 2000 (Due to Melo, the only All Star without broken knees that actually wanted to come to NY. Agree the he was drunk. why else we he want to come to this **** show), you would think this heralded front office would have swallowed some pride for the sake of the future of the franchise. The difference with a whining bitch of a fan and a professional basketball operations leader is that one gets paid to put on his big boy pants, swallow his pride and do what is the best interest of the team. The other just sits and acts like a 10 year old who was just told off for the first time in his life.(Typical over reacting spoiled fan)

And I know, I know, the many short fused loyal fans that keep putting their heads in the sand will keep telling you that it 'WILL" be okay. Notice how their excuse are always based on the FUTURE and yet to be realized. First it was yeah we got rid of KP good riddance. Yeah he will never walk again. Yeah well it was worth it for Durant and Kyrie. Yeah at least we got more affordable pieces that are just as good. Yeah KP is playing well but he will probably break a leg. Hey at least we will have cap space and plenty of draft picks in 2025. I mean what would make anyone think that the Knicks will **** up FA and the draft?

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

A person with knowledge of the meeting, however, said it was requested by the Porzingis brothers — after they had canceled a similar meeting earlier in January — and that it lasted less than five minutes. Later in the day, according to the person, Janis Porzingis provided the Knicks with a list of four teams he and Kristaps had deemed acceptable trade destinations.

The Nets and the Los Angeles Clippers were among those teams, but Dallas was not on the list. The Knicks, meanwhile, were told Porzingis was prepared to leave the team and continue his knee rehabilitation in Spain if he was not moved by this week’s league trade deadline.

Interesting that the 2 teams that Kyrie-KD-Kwahi-George all teammed up on were the teams that KP was looking to be traded to. Very possible he was trying to team up with these guys knowing their intentions threw back channels. Could have saw that the Knicks weren't the target of these superstars and felt a way that the Org isn't on that level and wanted out.

Also important to note

The Knicks also were fearful that letting the Dallas offer linger, or engaging other teams in the week leading up to the trade deadline, would have enabled the Porzingis camp to scare off the Mavericks or other potential suitors by threatening to sign long-term only with teams like the Nets or the Clippers.

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Good post. Many good points. However, and this is a real question, how do you come up with the conclusion that KP wanting out was "Irrational'? I mean us fans know what has been going on here for MANY years even more than KP ever did. And I don't think that there is ONE of us that would say that if they were an NBA talent they would see it as "Rational" decision to want to be a part of this organization? That is the reality. Don't know why so many act like its not. We suck, have sucked for many years. The FO is a joke, has been for many years. At least I KNOW THIS. Still watch every game and pay a lot of money for seats. But I KNOW THIS the reality.

Its irrational because again he missed the last 80 games of the season which effects winning. He played below star level for 2 month before injury which effect winning. He is in no position to claim he wants out due to losing ways when he is contributing to the losing.

Ask youself with KP injured. Is attempting to perserve cap to pair a stud FA with him poor managment? Is trying to land a Zion-Barret-Morant poor managment? Its one thing if they failed to deliver these things and so he wanted out after it was all said and done in the offseason when it was time to extend. To want out while he is missing the year before giving the FO an opportunity to land help when they have the assets to do so.

It def makes sense though if he already knew KD, Kyrie, Kwahi were headed to Nets and Clippers though.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Agreed. Like I said I was a big fan of his even when he started his crap but this was a power play. I do think think his brother has a bad influence over him but at the end of the day KP had a chance to stick it out here like he said he wanted to do but all of a sudden got bitchy and wanted out.

so KP getting Bitchy and no other top FA interested in signing with us, is a reflection on who?

who exactly do we have to thank for that?

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree except feel free hey should have tried to fix the situation and keep him

Knicks were in a pickle w the cap and wanted him to trust he’d get paid

Then fizzdLe starts flapping his gums to suggest he was more injured than he was

If KP was on the roster, they allocate the money to other needs like PG. Knicks would be a playoff team if they were to secure DLo or Brogden to go along with Barrett in the draft. Would have a healthy amount of young upcoming 2-way players. Foundation would have been rock solid with Mitch-KP-Barrett frontcourt and Brogden or DLo at G.

Then all of a sudden the FO looks competent for KP. KP created this set back for the org. Made a calculated power play by waiting a week until the deadline to force them to trade him.

The Knicks made the decision to trade Kristaps Porzingis last week, ending a three-and-a-half year run that featured a number of highs and lows. Porzingis, the team’s 2015 lottery pick, began to express his displeasure with the team and its losing ways, culminating in a meeting involving him, his agent, and Knicks management last Thursday.

“We started to get a feel that everything wasn’t going as well as we would’ve liked with Kristaps,” Knicks president Steve Mills said in an interview on MSG. “So Scott [Perry] and I spent a lot of time saying, ‘Okay. We need to be prepared if things aren’t going well or if he doesn’t want to be here, or that we need to be ready.'”

“We felt the 7th was really important because if we let this go beyond the 7th, the leverage completely shifted. We would not have control of the situation,” Mills said, as relayed by Mike Vorkunov of The Athletic. “We weren’t sure what Kristaps was going to come in and tell us. We didn’t know if he’d come in and tell us he wanted to be traded or he may have come in and said he wanted to do a one-year contract with the player option, which would then have made him untradeable and he would have had all the leverage. We just felt we needed to have some certainty by the 7th.

“When they came in to meet with us, they made it clear to us — it was a meeting that they requested — they made it clear to us that he did not want to play for the Knicks, that he was not going to re-sign with us as a free agent. And we in one way thanked him for the clarity because it gave us the information we needed to know.”

KP being upset about the losing ways while he missed the last like 80 games. While shooting 41% from the field and grabbing 6.5 rebs the 26 games before his injury due to fatigue to assist in the losing. This is irrational to me. Leads to believe that him wanting out was due to ulterior motives. Used the "losing ways" as his cop out.

Lot of good stuff in here but what were the ulterior motives? He always said he wanted to be in NY. Huge market. Was treated like a god and he hadn't won anything yet. He wanted to win in NYC. But winning was more important than NYC. I can respect that

I'll take his comments as genuine. My suspicion is he didn't see winning on the horizon and wasn't confident in Fizz or how he would fit into Fizz's scheme

And yes he certainly could have been better about it, but as others noted Mills and Perry's jobs are supposed to handle things like this. You don't think they had to deal with this w the Bucks. A ****ty market and a megastar. They knew expecting infinite patience from a star is risky.

At this point it's water under the bridge. At this point it looks like a colossally, epically bad move by the FO. AND I HAVENT even mentioned that one of its supposed merits was dumping THJ's contract -- yes Mill's first crontract as president

Assuming we don't fire the CS and entire FO (which would be the right move IMO) they should at least fire the coach and hopefully draft their way out of this mess. So far they show some competency with that especially in the 2d round.