fishmike wrote:Maybe when Fizdale visited him KP hated him. We dont know. I would love to know what the straw that broke the relationship was. The salt is especially strong with RJ here. He's really looking the dynamic scorer you put around KP/Mitch up front to build a team that competes for a title.

If Im the Knicks, you deal with whatever it is they are asking for and make it work. Resign KP. We didnt hear much about Fizdale's visit to Latvia in the summer. A few months into a season where KP isnt playing he's like I WANT OUT. It sucks because he's the only talent we have had that you see on a court and think one day he could be part of a death line up like the Warriors used to trot out there...

It has a look of a huge set back while the Knicks spend the next few years trying to add impact players next to RJ...

When someone wants to break up with you there's not much repairing to be done. Let it go. Fizdale showed up with flowers holding up a boombox under KP's latvian window. It didn't work. There wasn't anything that Fizdale did wrong. KP doesn't like losing? Well get healthy and contribute otherwise losing is how you get RJBarrett.

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

MS wrote:It's only three games put...

KP is averaging 26.3pts 5.5rbs 3.3assists on 46% from the field. He may get injured, but it would be fun watching him and Mitch defend the rim, two players couldn't compliment each other more.

it always bothered me that KP could never sniff 10 rpg, let alone 8. Teh guy is a unique talent but when you expect Luka to average more rebounds, well, that would irritate me as a fan.

this comment has nothing to do with you MS, but upon reflection, it appears Janis and KP were smart for escaping this dumpster fire, because that's what the 2019-20 Knicks are

your not going to get 10 rebounds out of Mitch either, because he is looking to swat every shot, just like KP, not to mention, KP is more of a perimeter player who won't get the benefits of put backs.

But if your a smart GM/Prez, you hire or trade for a rebond a specialist to play next to him.

Almost none of our players(since mills has gotten here) compliments each others skill set.

We basically got trash for melo, trash for KP, waived Kanter (the key piece in the melo trade, and with an expiring contract)trash for Willy.

we should be looking at

rj
KD
kp

as a core

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree but until we see what these draft picks become, we don't know what we got for him.

well thats cute... but we gave up all star franchise talent for doo doo. Titles are won by teams and players that can do special things. A team with KP as a key part can do special things. He's just a part but a special part and the hardest part to find. I would love to be wrong, but the KP trade was massive set back in this process. There is no happy-cute way to spin it. The only way the KP trade works is if the cap space yielded us star players. It didnt. We rolled the dice and made the best move we thought we could. I get it. Right now Mavs are looking like geniuses.

so how do u think it would have played out if we didn’t trade him and he bolts the team to rehab in europe as he publically threatened? do we later get a better deal for him? does he do a turnaround and sign with us?

There are teams and organizations that seem to be able to manage challenging but exceptional players. The KP situation struck me as fixable. He works hard at basketball. His family are a problem... or are they? We dont know yet. If we never hear about this again it was the Knicks. If he's a pain in the ass in Texas then we see the problem.

To me, KP is worth much more than anything we traded him for. Maybe when Fizdale visited him KP hated him. We dont know. I would love to know what the straw that broke the relationship was. The salt is especially strong with RJ here. He's really looking the dynamic scorer you put around KP/Mitch up front to build a team that competes for a title.

If Im the Knicks, you deal with whatever it is they are asking for and make it work. Resign KP. We didnt hear much about Fizdale's visit to Latvia in the summer. A few months into a season where KP isnt playing he's like I WANT OUT. It sucks because he's the only talent we have had that you see on a court and think one day he could be part of a death line up like the Warriors used to trot out there...

It has a look of a huge set back while the Knicks spend the next few years trying to add impact players next to RJ...

Would it shock you if KP spoke to Gasol about Fizdale and basically swayed by it. There is some truths to Fizdale not liking Euro players. Hell look at the way he treats Frank. Didn’t play him knowing his mom was visiting and wasn’t like the Knicks were playing for playoffs. Giving him 14 second to end the half. Bringing him ice cold after sitting out the first half, dog housing him for the slightest mistakes. Double standards everywhere.

The problem with talking to you is its simply impossible for you to grasp that Frank and his play are actually part of the equation. Frank had one moment in the preseason he looked good, and that was vs. the Hawks when he was defending Trae and as I recall Frank still had a very bad offensive showing there.

People love the IDEA of Frank... a team first defensive stud who sets up bigs for easy shots and locks down PG, but he's not that guy and has never shown he's that guy short of some flashes here and there. I want him to be that guy also, but he has not shown that. With no DSjr tonight hopefully tonight he gets a block of time and shows something.

I am not a Fizdale fan but this notion that Fizdale should just pick one of these guys to lead us and that guy should be playing well is odd.

LegendD wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

MS wrote:It's only three games put...

KP is averaging 26.3pts 5.5rbs 3.3assists on 46% from the field. He may get injured, but it would be fun watching him and Mitch defend the rim, two players couldn't compliment each other more.

yeah that was the plan...Until him and dickhead brother showed their true colors. Some fans can blame the FO all they want BUT the guy didn't want to be here anymore period end of story. They tried to get a better deal but nobody would bite because he was coming off a bad injur and has a injury history. yes I know KP is off to a great start BUT we have seen this before. he will get off to a great start hen 20-25 games later will get "tired" and either get hurt or get destroyed by a Jokic or Draymond Green etc. Look im not denying his talent but he is also very brittle and that's gonna happen eventually no doubt in my mind. That was a concern of mine even if he stayed. But he turned into a real ******* probably because of his brother mostly

He only become tired because he by him self carried Knicks with no hellp from others, but in Mavs KP has help from Luka and he not be tired anymore.

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree but until we see what these draft picks become, we don't know what we got for him.

well thats cute... but we gave up all star franchise talent for doo doo. Titles are won by teams and players that can do special things. A team with KP as a key part can do special things. He's just a part but a special part and the hardest part to find. I would love to be wrong, but the KP trade was massive set back in this process. There is no happy-cute way to spin it. The only way the KP trade works is if the cap space yielded us star players. It didnt. We rolled the dice and made the best move we thought we could. I get it. Right now Mavs are looking like geniuses.

so how do u think it would have played out if we didn’t trade him and he bolts the team to rehab in europe as he publically threatened? do we later get a better deal for him? does he do a turnaround and sign with us?

There are teams and organizations that seem to be able to manage challenging but exceptional players. The KP situation struck me as fixable. He works hard at basketball. His family are a problem... or are they? We dont know yet. If we never hear about this again it was the Knicks. If he's a pain in the ass in Texas then we see the problem.

To me, KP is worth much more than anything we traded him for. Maybe when Fizdale visited him KP hated him. We dont know. I would love to know what the straw that broke the relationship was. The salt is especially strong with RJ here. He's really looking the dynamic scorer you put around KP/Mitch up front to build a team that competes for a title.

If Im the Knicks, you deal with whatever it is they are asking for and make it work. Resign KP. We didnt hear much about Fizdale's visit to Latvia in the summer. A few months into a season where KP isnt playing he's like I WANT OUT. It sucks because he's the only talent we have had that you see on a court and think one day he could be part of a death line up like the Warriors used to trot out there...

It has a look of a huge set back while the Knicks spend the next few years trying to add impact players next to RJ...

Excellent post

As i mentioned elsewhere my suspicion is that the straw was KP wanting no part of at least the coach and maybe the FO. That is why he wanted to talk to Dolan. That is why Perry said hope you like BBQ

When we finally end things she moves on while we stay stuck that "she was the one that got away" and are critical of ourselves that we made a bad decision. We ignore that there is blame on both sides and forgot that nothing matters if both sides don't wish to continue being together. Yes the past did probably impact KP's feelings about staying here but it doesn't change the outcome. When you break up with someone you're supposed to take time off and reflect on yourself (before starting a new relationship) - think the FO is trying to do that for the first time (authentically). They didn't offer other below max players a long-term max deal, but they did gamble on DSJr becoming our PG (not looking great so far) and they gambled on the cap space turning into 2 mega stars (had to go to Plan B).

Not sure about Fiz's long-term coaching capabilities but let's give them some time to see if we are moving in the right direction - maybe 1/2 through the season we can assess and look for an increase in win total %, RJ's progression as a rookie, better team play/passing, team defense, etc...

There are some positives - RJ looks like a player, Elfrid is stable and probably a good fit with this unbalanced team, Knox is shooting more efficiently as a bench player, Trier has that 6th man spark teams need, Morris has toughness that we haven't seen in decades

Marv wrote:one other thing - i can’t believe people say phil had the right idea about trading him. It would have been the worst idea ever. Immediately following phil’s FUBAR-level handling of melo he’s going to add to it jettisoning kp??? dolan was right to can him then. he was a rich assclown to feed him additional millions before doing so tho.

except that at that moment in time he would have yielded Booker and Markinen or so the thinking goes

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Put KP 1.5 year after an ACL injury just coming back, on the Knicks roster, and he is be far the best player. By miles. However they won't make the playoffs. So it was good they moved him, they were going nowhere with him, and KP knew that as well. KP is not Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis level to carry a team by himself to the playoffs. The main thing that messed it all up in hindsight is how they dealt him. Without bidding, without any real wheeling and dealing. We got very little for a 23 year old all-star big man, who is viewed as a special talent because of his ability to play inside/out and defend.

I agree but until we see what these draft picks become, we don't know what we got for him.

well thats cute... but we gave up all star franchise talent for doo doo. Titles are won by teams and players that can do special things. A team with KP as a key part can do special things. He's just a part but a special part and the hardest part to find. I would love to be wrong, but the KP trade was massive set back in this process. There is no happy-cute way to spin it. The only way the KP trade works is if the cap space yielded us star players. It didnt. We rolled the dice and made the best move we thought we could. I get it. Right now Mavs are looking like geniuses.

so how do u think it would have played out if we didn’t trade him and he bolts the team to rehab in europe as he publically threatened? do we later get a better deal for him? does he do a turnaround and sign with us?

There are teams and organizations that seem to be able to manage challenging but exceptional players. The KP situation struck me as fixable. He works hard at basketball. His family are a problem... or are they? We dont know yet. If we never hear about this again it was the Knicks. If he's a pain in the ass in Texas then we see the problem.

To me, KP is worth much more than anything we traded him for. Maybe when Fizdale visited him KP hated him. We dont know. I would love to know what the straw that broke the relationship was. The salt is especially strong with RJ here. He's really looking the dynamic scorer you put around KP/Mitch up front to build a team that competes for a title.

If Im the Knicks, you deal with whatever it is they are asking for and make it work. Resign KP. We didnt hear much about Fizdale's visit to Latvia in the summer. A few months into a season where KP isnt playing he's like I WANT OUT. It sucks because he's the only talent we have had that you see on a court and think one day he could be part of a death line up like the Warriors used to trot out there...

It has a look of a huge set back while the Knicks spend the next few years trying to add impact players next to RJ...

Would it shock you if KP spoke to Gasol about Fizdale and basically swayed by it. There is some truths to Fizdale not liking Euro players. Hell look at the way he treats Frank. Didn’t play him knowing his mom was visiting and wasn’t like the Knicks were playing for playoffs. Giving him 14 second to end the half. Bringing him ice cold after sitting out the first half, dog housing him for the slightest mistakes. Double standards everywhere.

See, this is where you float an idea, then let that idea fuel your agenda which is pro-Frank and anti-Fizdale/Knicks. Do you know if KP and Gasol spoke? Or is being on the same continent "close enough?" Did you know Frank was wildly inconsistent and had his minutes fluctuate under Horncek as well?

The problem with talking to you is its simply impossible for you to grasp that Frank and his play are actually part of the equation. Frank had one moment in the preseason he looked good, and that was vs. the Hawks when he was defending Trae and as I recall Frank still had a very bad offensive showing there.

People love the IDEA of Frank... a team first defensive stud who sets up bigs for easy shots and locks down PG, but he's not that guy and has never shown he's that guy short of some flashes here and there. I want him to be that guy also, but he has not shown that. With no DSjr tonight hopefully tonight he gets a block of time and shows something.

I am not a Fizdale fan but this notion that Fizdale should just pick one of these guys to lead us and that guy should be playing well is odd.

Good post Fish!!