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Knicks Blueprint should now be Denver
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Knixkik
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6/13/2019  4:44 PM
3 years ago Denver was a 40-42 team built around Jokic, Murray, and Harris has a core group. They decided to add Millsap at 30 mil a year which seemed ridiculous at the time with his age not really fitting the timeline, but it really benefited Denver. They are now a contender, which is based on a lot of factors, but one of them is the development of the young guys and the impact Millsap has had. There is nothing wrong with identifying a vet star who we can use a max slot on to help accelerate the rebuild around RJB (most likely), Knox, and Mitch. Maybe it's KD, who would start with a redshirt year, or maybe it's someone else. The idea of building from within and not spending any money this summer is all well and good, but in order to develop the youth, they need to be led by a vet star. We can't just give Barrett the keys and expect him to develop that way. He needs to grow into that role. It's becoming apparent that Barrett, Knox, and mitch are the core (with DSJ and Dotson in the mix to a lesser extent), so our championship aspirations in the future start and end with them. But adding a star player to help get us to the playoffs sooner is important for that journey. We should continue to maintain some cap space for flexibility to add another star later or absorb bad contracts packaged with picks, and also keep our surplus of picks we have now for a rainy day. But adding 1 quality vet to be our version of Millsap will go a long way in this rebuild and has to be on the table.
AUTOADVERT
wargames
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6/14/2019  7:57 AM
They didn’t give Milsap $30 Mil after he tore his Achilles to “red shirt” him.

If Knicks sign KD they are insane cause they haven’t learned from all the many other older, injured players who came here and didn’t amount to trash.

Antonio McDyess
Steve Francis
Penny Hardaway
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady
Amare Staudemire
Derrick Rose
Joakim Noah
Andrea Bargnan

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
knicks1248
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6/14/2019  8:22 AM
wargames wrote:They didn’t give Milsap $30 Mil after he tore his Achilles to “red shirt” him.

If Knicks sign KD they are insane cause they haven’t learned from all the many other older, injured players who came here and didn’t amount to trash.

Antonio McDyess
Steve Francis
Penny Hardaway
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady
Amare Staudemire
Derrick Rose
Joakim Noah
Andrea Bargnan

most of those guys were here for 1 or 2 yrs..

ES
TheGame
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6/14/2019  8:31 AM
Millsap did not get the max. I don't disagree that we should sign a vet or two to help the youths but you can do that on one year inflated deals. Given the injuries to KD and Thompson as well as the fact walker and Leonard are unlikely to leave their current teams, the Knicks should focus on obtaining draft picks and preserving cap space for 2020, when there will be a few all-star PFs available. You plug in Davis next year to a team of Knox, smith, Barrett, and Mitchell, plus Trier and Dotson and now you have a solid team with more draft picks to come.
Trust the Process
arkrud
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6/14/2019  8:46 AM
Knixkik wrote:3 years ago Denver was a 40-42 team built around Jokic, Murray, and Harris has a core group. They decided to add Millsap at 30 mil a year which seemed ridiculous at the time with his age not really fitting the timeline, but it really benefited Denver. They are now a contender, which is based on a lot of factors, but one of them is the development of the young guys and the impact Millsap has had. There is nothing wrong with identifying a vet star who we can use a max slot on to help accelerate the rebuild around RJB (most likely), Knox, and Mitch. Maybe it's KD, who would start with a redshirt year, or maybe it's someone else. The idea of building from within and not spending any money this summer is all well and good, but in order to develop the youth, they need to be led by a vet star. We can't just give Barrett the keys and expect him to develop that way. He needs to grow into that role. It's becoming apparent that Barrett, Knox, and mitch are the core (with DSJ and Dotson in the mix to a lesser extent), so our championship aspirations in the future start and end with them. But adding a star player to help get us to the playoffs sooner is important for that journey. We should continue to maintain some cap space for flexibility to add another star later or absorb bad contracts packaged with picks, and also keep our surplus of picks we have now for a rainy day. But adding 1 quality vet to be our version of Millsap will go a long way in this rebuild and has to be on the table.

League has quite a bit of solid veterans who can lead the development team and are not max players.
Players like Jordan can be used for much less money and short contracts.
We need to get in piece with the reality that Knicks have no shortcuts available to get to contention.
It will take years and many small moves.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Knixkik
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6/14/2019  9:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2019  9:29 AM
TheGame wrote:Millsap did not get the max. I don't disagree that we should sign a vet or two to help the youths but you can do that on one year inflated deals. Given the injuries to KD and Thompson as well as the fact walker and Leonard are unlikely to leave their current teams, the Knicks should focus on obtaining draft picks and preserving cap space for 2020, when there will be a few all-star PFs available. You plug in Davis next year to a team of Knox, smith, Barrett, and Mitchell, plus Trier and Dotson and now you have a solid team with more draft picks to come.

We aren't getting AD in free agency. Free agency is changing. Most guys demand trades prior, and that will increase every year. This is probably the last big free agency in the traditional sense. If guys want to leave their current team, most will do it a year or 2 before their contract is up. Obviously using cap space to acquire extra picks is a good move, so we are prepared for the next big trade, as there will be a couple each year. Having the draft picks will be more important than cap space. This is probably the last season that having a ton of cap space matters in free agency. The exception is if a team like Boston says screw it and trades for AD anyways. That's the only way he really hits free agency. But ultimately most guys will get to the team they want to be on prior.
Knicksfan
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6/14/2019  9:38 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:They didn’t give Milsap $30 Mil after he tore his Achilles to “red shirt” him.

If Knicks sign KD they are insane cause they haven’t learned from all the many other older, injured players who came here and didn’t amount to trash.

Antonio McDyess
Steve Francis
Penny Hardaway
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady
Amare Staudemire
Derrick Rose
Joakim Noah
Andrea Bargnan

most of those guys were here for 1 or 2 yrs..

Thats obviously no the point.

Knicks_Fan
Vmart
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6/14/2019  11:08 AM
Denver is a very good model to follow. But then Denver knows how to develop talent. The Knicks are the worst in the history of the NBA in developing players.
elmaestro33
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6/14/2019  11:57 AM
wargames wrote:They didn’t give Milsap $30 Mil after he tore his Achilles to “red shirt” him.

If Knicks sign KD they are insane cause they haven’t learned from all the many other older, injured players who came here and didn’t amount to trash.

Antonio McDyess
Steve Francis
Penny Hardaway
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady
Amare Staudemire
Derrick Rose
Joakim Noah
Andrea Bargnan

The KD situation is very very different from all those examples listed. Most of those signings/trades were for older players that were years removed from their peak play and injury. And even their peak play (outside of maybe Rose) was nowhere near the same level KD is at.
knicks1248
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6/14/2019  12:08 PM
Knicksfan wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:They didn’t give Milsap $30 Mil after he tore his Achilles to “red shirt” him.

If Knicks sign KD they are insane cause they haven’t learned from all the many other older, injured players who came here and didn’t amount to trash.

Antonio McDyess
Steve Francis
Penny Hardaway
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady
Amare Staudemire
Derrick Rose
Joakim Noah
Andrea Bargnan

most of those guys were here for 1 or 2 yrs..

Thats obviously no the point.

he is trying to reference those players as bad signings/trades and that we should avoid going that route, But aside from Noah, Amare and Bargiani, the rest of those players were not brought here to save the franchise, and were on expiring contracts or one additional yr.

Even if we signed KD and another All star, the chances of winning a title in yr one would be a little farfetch..

ES
Knixkik
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6/14/2019  12:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2019  12:40 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
wargames wrote:They didn’t give Milsap $30 Mil after he tore his Achilles to “red shirt” him.

If Knicks sign KD they are insane cause they haven’t learned from all the many other older, injured players who came here and didn’t amount to trash.

Antonio McDyess
Steve Francis
Penny Hardaway
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady
Amare Staudemire
Derrick Rose
Joakim Noah
Andrea Bargnan

most of those guys were here for 1 or 2 yrs..

Thats obviously no the point.

he is trying to reference those players as bad signings/trades and that we should avoid going that route, But aside from Noah, Amare and Bargiani, the rest of those players were not brought here to save the franchise, and were on expiring contracts or one additional yr.

Even if we signed KD and another All star, the chances of winning a title in yr one would be a little farfetch..


It's not championship or bust. KD would be the first step to accelerating the rebuild. These young guys need to learn how to win. You can't just rebuild with youth only and expect them to gradually get better. If you can acquire really talented players to lead the way at the beginning of these guy's careers you do it. KD will still be a star coming off the injury. If you sign KD, you are basically signing up to be bad one more year then can start building a playoff team. The rinse and repeat rebuild poses a bigger risk than signing KD in my opinion. You can only draft in the high lottery so many years in row before you take a gamble on something. Otherwise you are left with a bunch of young players exhausted from all the losing.
djsunyc
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6/14/2019  2:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2019  2:44 PM
team building is so...damn...hard.

need a smart plan and alot of luck. i'm sure many many people thought the raptors should blow things up last summer or maybe the summer before but they stayed the course and struck when opportunity presented itself.

i think you go from bad to mediocre to good to great.

jumping from one level to the next is not easy - which is why you need good management that understands team building and chemistry. it's the difference between scouting ron baker instead of his back court mate in van vleet.

imho, there is no 1 single blueprint as the raptors didn't have any player drafted higher than 15 on the roster.

i think you put together a roster with as many good two-way players as you can. you need to play defense and you need everybody that can score. you can't have any real liabilities out there unless it's completely outweighed by some elite skill.

keep adding talent and then see where it goes. keep tweaking and see where it goes. sometimes you need to be a 2nd round and out team for a few years before getting to the next level. sometimes there's no next level.

there is no right way. there is no quick fixes. just good management and luck.
Vmart
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6/14/2019  3:15 PM
If you look at what the Raptors did they looked for two way players. Khawhi, Gasol, Ibaka and Green. They targeted not necessarily the best players but really good defensive players that gave effort in the defensive end. You don’t need the best offensive players but players that are really solid defensively and put up fair amount of points. That’s why you keep Frank in hopes that he finds some offense to go with defense.
djsunyc
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6/14/2019  3:23 PM
Vmart wrote:If you look at what the Raptors did they looked for two way players. Khawhi, Gasol, Ibaka and Green. They targeted not necessarily the best players but really good defensive players that gave effort in the defensive end. You don’t need the best offensive players but players that are really solid defensively and put up fair amount of points. That’s why you keep Frank in hopes that he finds some offense to go with defense.

well the #1 reason we won the title is b/c we had the best player on the floor but yeah, you need a roster full of guys that can play both ends to be contender level or close to. we had that 1-9. unfortunately og anunoby couldn't play b/c of an burst appendix right before the playoffs so we only played 8 guys.
smackeddog
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6/14/2019  3:32 PM
djsunyc wrote:
Vmart wrote:If you look at what the Raptors did they looked for two way players. Khawhi, Gasol, Ibaka and Green. They targeted not necessarily the best players but really good defensive players that gave effort in the defensive end. You don’t need the best offensive players but players that are really solid defensively and put up fair amount of points. That’s why you keep Frank in hopes that he finds some offense to go with defense.

well the #1 reason we won the title is b/c we had the best player on the floor but yeah, you need a roster full of guys that can play both ends to be contender level or close to. we had that 1-9. unfortunately og anunoby couldn't play b/c of an burst appendix right before the playoffs so we only played 8 guys.

If OG had been on the warriors, they would have cleared him to play
Cartman718
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6/14/2019  7:31 PM
I don’t think the Knicks are the worst at developing talent anymore. The model to follow...I don’t even know; KD out Klay out Kyrie may be out. Perry will make the right call I feel. Patience on spending those $ on the right personnel
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
GustavBahler
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6/14/2019  7:46 PM
Most important part of Denver's plan was drafting Jokic in the second round. He orchestrates the offense like few bigs in the league. Would we be talking about Denver's plan without him? Doubt it.

Believe what we learned from Denver is that chemistry is important. If you are going to pay good money for players, make sure they arent just good, make sure they are a good fit.

That has been the Knicks problem in the past, thinking more of a player's box office appeal, than how they actually fit in the team's plan.
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