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If KD has to be out a yr..
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knicks1248
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6/11/2019  10:26 AM
anrst wrote:Mills and Perry: STAY AWAY

If this was Jordan at 31, would you say that?

Other than Klay and Kemba, all of the TOP FA has had major injuries. Who are you signing with a clean bill of health throughout his career.

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ankurk
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6/11/2019  10:43 AM
32 and coming off of an Achilles isn’t the best look
Build the youth and trade away frank, and dsj
Aim for cole Anthony in next years draft
GustavBahler
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6/11/2019  10:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/11/2019  10:46 AM
As I said in the playoffs thread, guessing GS didnt want to say no to Durant because they thought it might affect his decision on free agency. Unless Durant was kept in the dark, or pressured to play, Id put this on Durant. Not that he did a wrong thing, tried to be there for his team.

As for free agency. Sure some teams might sign Durant. Dont know how many of them have been snakebit by injuries to star players like the Knicks over the years. Whats good for other teams, isnt necessarily good for the Knicks.

Old saying that its an ill wind that doesnt blow somebody some good. Hoping this injury pushes the Knicks plans for free agency down the road, if we cant get Kawhi,Klay. More space for the recent picks, (and hopefully Barrett) to develop their games.

Sangfroid
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6/11/2019  10:54 AM
Panos wrote:Can we please PLEASE stay away from signing an injured star hoping that we're smarter than everyone else? How many times have we seen this?

Saved from ourselves. Can't believe the number of people/teams that want to max out KD, even with his injury concerns. Hopefully, Pills will steer clear of this mess.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
anrst
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6/11/2019  10:57 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
anrst wrote:Mills and Perry: STAY AWAY

If this was Jordan at 31, would you say that?

Other than Klay and Kemba, all of the TOP FA has had major injuries. Who are you signing with a clean bill of health throughout his career.

hey guess what, it's not Jordan at 31

newyorknewyork
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6/11/2019  11:35 AM
grillco wrote:Everyone here screwed up.

GS folks should have been focused long term, because maybe (just maybe) KD stays and you want to make sure he's completely healthy for the next 5+ years.

His management/agency should have done the same, with no concern for GS. Keep him healthy and get that max deal for their client, likely his last big deal. Ideally with eyes on making him the biggest of heroes by bringing a chip back to the Knicks. Regardless of who he ended playing for, he's your money printing machine...in their business you protect that above all.

Lastly, Durant should have been just as focused on the future. He's got rings and, especially in a 3-1 hole, it was extremely unlikely that there would be a miraculous comeback. Game seven might have been too much to resist, but a game five? It's really his call and he should have let that haters complain and looked out for his best interests. Playing last night was unnecessary at best, but obviously we know what it was at worst...

Because he tore his Achillies this is now the view. Yet if he never played with people only thinking he had a calf injury. He would be viewed as a selfish star who wouldnt make the sacrifices to help his team win the chip.

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newyorknewyork
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6/11/2019  11:36 AM
Bob Myers was crying at the press conference. He is feeling guilty
"Yo I'm a Knick!! Whhhaat" - RJ Barrett
blkexec
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6/11/2019  11:36 AM
Uptown wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Uptown wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I’ve heard he was pissed. That him, his agent, and the GS GM were together in the locker room or medical area and “emotions were flying”.

This could be similar to Kwahi who was upset with the Spurs who misdianosed his injury!! This may seal the deal and KD will definitely leave now!! Could go either way...

My boy has been calling KD’s injury an Achilles issue dating back to the Houston game. Claims GS calling it a calf injury this whole time was BS. And they are gonna act like KD tore his Achilles trying to compensate for the calf. When it was a Achilles issue the whole time. That GS should be ashamed of themselves.

Me and a few others on this board was calling it an Achilles injury from jump. It was obvious, the way Durant looked down at the back of his leg, when he was running up the court vs Houston. I posted in one of these threads that GS may be covering up this injury...its all speculation but GS looks really bad here.

Well....I'm an expert unfortunately. Tore both of mine.

Calf tears and Achilles tears are similar in reaction. You feel a pop like someone kicked you. You look back, no one is there.

In KD's case, he clearly grabbed his calf the first time. That means he had a tear in the calf area. His last injury, he grabbed his Achilles. But the calf and Achilles are connected...when one of those get weak, it puts strain on the other. And since there's minimal blood flow in that area, it takes time for the body to heal. When you injure the calf, it's a sign that the Achilles was weak and eventually your Achilles will tear, especially when you come back too soon.

So no, GS was not hiding anything. KD had a calf strain....Now KD either strained his Achilles or tore it. With surgery, the recovery is quick. I came back in 3 months. Without surgery, recovery is a year. Since KD's calves is why he makes millions of dollars, he will sit out for a year at least, before returning to his normal self.

KD is a jump shooter, and his days of beating his man with his first step is slipping away. He needs to learn how to create space using his teammates with picks or other post up fadeaway moves.

Tore mine at 35 and the other one at 39. Now I'm 46 and have a game today. Still feel like no one can guard me and my jumper only got better. Once you repair your achilles with surgery, chances of it popping again is little to none.

But with that said, I'm tired of adding injured players! We have a bad history of doing that.

But KD will still be a top 5 player, 2 years after recovery! Put him on the shelf, get another high pick, and build a championship team when he returns the following season.

I'm really not sure which direction we should go. I think KD is now a last resort plan B option. Plan A is to add young healthy stars.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
Uptown
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6/11/2019  11:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/11/2019  11:44 AM
Nalod wrote:
Uptown wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Uptown wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I’ve heard he was pissed. That him, his agent, and the GS GM were together in the locker room or medical area and “emotions were flying”.

This could be similar to Kwahi who was upset with the Spurs who misdianosed his injury!! This may seal the deal and KD will definitely leave now!! Could go either way...

My boy has been calling KD’s injury an Achilles issue dating back to the Houston game. Claims GS calling it a calf injury this whole time was BS. And they are gonna act like KD tore his Achilles trying to compensate for the calf. When it was a Achilles issue the whole time. That GS should be ashamed of themselves.

Me and a few others on this board was calling it an Achilles injury from jump. It was obvious, the way Durant looked down at the back of his leg, when he was running up the court vs Houston. I posted in one of these threads that GS may be covering up this injury...its all speculation but GS looks really bad here.

Covering it up from who??? What is the motive? Strategic to mess with Toronto?
You think they covered up from Durant? What are we talking about here? They look bad because we don't know the circumstances and don't even know how severe (Severe is never good BTW!)this injury is. You think GSW hid information from Durant? In this day and age where players have their own agenda and Doc's, and with his agent over seeing things how does this happen? This is not the 1970's NFL telling players to take a pain injection and tough it out "or else"!!!
If GSW was negligent and deliberate in any fashion I would agree to throw the book at them if possible, but I just don't see this. Maybe Im being naïve? I understand this is how things used to be. But still??

Coverup? Maybe poor choice of words on my end. Misdiagnose? Miscalculation? strain rather than tear?

Whatever the case, there's an article written by Sam Amick thats suggests that other Warrior players who were banged up, such as: Klay, Boogie, Iggy and Looney were "pushing through the way (their injuries)" and there was "Frustration and irritation was growing throughout the organization that KD was playing."

So basically, according to sources and Sam Amicks article, there were people within the GS organization questioning KD and whether or not he could play. That is pressure coming from the organization to play! All players want to play through injuries, but where is the guy in the organization with veto rights? Where are the guys in the front office that are also paid millions to protect the athletes from themselves?


I'am not signed up to the Athletic, so if someone here is signed-up, maybe they can post the entire article. Here is a link:

https://theathletic.com/1017983/2019/06/09/as-durants-absence-tugs-at-their-team-the-warriors-are-fighting-frustration-fatigue-in-this-finals-challenge/

blkexec
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6/11/2019  11:45 AM
Uptown, I agree with the organizational pressure.

There's also PR pressure that KD is soft and selfish and doesn't put the team first.

There's pressure from Curry and Klay asking KD to play, even at less than 100%. And boosting KD's head about being the best player.

We can spread the blame around all day.

But the person who's looking better right now is Kawhi. He didn't fold to similar pressure in SA...From Pop to Tony Parker and the media. Kawhi doesn't seemed to be attached to his social media account like KD.

This was a calculated risk decision. But like I tell my kids, if the risk out weighs the reward, don't do it.

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Uptown
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6/11/2019  11:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/11/2019  11:59 AM
blkexec wrote:Uptown, I agree with the organizational pressure.

There's also PR pressure that KD is soft and selfish and doesn't put the team first.

There's pressure from Curry and Klay asking KD to play, even at less than 100%. And boosting KD's head about being the best player.

We can spread the blame around all day.

But the person who's looking better right now is Kawhi. He didn't fold to similar pressure in SA...From Pop to Tony Parker and the media. Kawhi doesn't seemed to be attached to his social media account like KD.

This was a calculated risk decision. But like I tell my kids, if the risk out weighs the reward, don't do it.

Agreed about Kawhi!! I'm sure, Kawhi had some people in his corner telling him not to play. I wish KD had someone in his corner to put their foot down and not allow him to risk his career.

Max Kellerman mad a good comparison...He talked about how Eddie Futch didn't allow Joe Frazier to fight the 15th round in the Thriller in Manilla despite Frazier protesting. The corner man protecting his fighter. I just wonder who was protecting KD?

grillco
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6/11/2019  12:01 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
grillco wrote:Everyone here screwed up.

GS folks should have been focused long term, because maybe (just maybe) KD stays and you want to make sure he's completely healthy for the next 5+ years.

His management/agency should have done the same, with no concern for GS. Keep him healthy and get that max deal for their client, likely his last big deal. Ideally with eyes on making him the biggest of heroes by bringing a chip back to the Knicks. Regardless of who he ended playing for, he's your money printing machine...in their business you protect that above all.

Lastly, Durant should have been just as focused on the future. He's got rings and, especially in a 3-1 hole, it was extremely unlikely that there would be a miraculous comeback. Game seven might have been too much to resist, but a game five? It's really his call and he should have let that haters complain and looked out for his best interests. Playing last night was unnecessary at best, but obviously we know what it was at worst...

Because he tore his Achillies this is now the view. Yet if he never played with people only thinking he had a calf injury. He would be viewed as a selfish star who wouldnt make the sacrifices to help his team win the chip.

I get that, but that would really only be GS fans that really cared, every other team and their fans would be glad to have him.

That said, I don't understand the ego of the professional athlete. I wasn't aware of the extent of his injury and had no investment in the outcome of this finals, but I wouldn't risk furthering the injury with the team in a 3-1 hole, especially if I had every intention of hitting the bricks. GS was basically history for KD if the plan was to leave (as has been stated in pretty much every sports news outlet), so why risk anything? Poor decision all around.

And thinking more about GS, they could have maxxed him and traded him for the best offer of talent and picks. Now they either get nothing OR pay him another $31M to not play for a season and then have him walk away.

newyorknewyork
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6/11/2019  12:24 PM
grillco wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
grillco wrote:Everyone here screwed up.

GS folks should have been focused long term, because maybe (just maybe) KD stays and you want to make sure he's completely healthy for the next 5+ years.

His management/agency should have done the same, with no concern for GS. Keep him healthy and get that max deal for their client, likely his last big deal. Ideally with eyes on making him the biggest of heroes by bringing a chip back to the Knicks. Regardless of who he ended playing for, he's your money printing machine...in their business you protect that above all.

Lastly, Durant should have been just as focused on the future. He's got rings and, especially in a 3-1 hole, it was extremely unlikely that there would be a miraculous comeback. Game seven might have been too much to resist, but a game five? It's really his call and he should have let that haters complain and looked out for his best interests. Playing last night was unnecessary at best, but obviously we know what it was at worst...

Because he tore his Achillies this is now the view. Yet if he never played with people only thinking he had a calf injury. He would be viewed as a selfish star who wouldnt make the sacrifices to help his team win the chip.

I get that, but that would really only be GS fans that really cared, every other team and their fans would be glad to have him.

That said, I don't understand the ego of the professional athlete. I wasn't aware of the extent of his injury and had no investment in the outcome of this finals, but I wouldn't risk furthering the injury with the team in a 3-1 hole, especially if I had every intention of hitting the bricks. GS was basically history for KD if the plan was to leave (as has been stated in pretty much every sports news outlet), so why risk anything? Poor decision all around.

And thinking more about GS, they could have maxxed him and traded him for the best offer of talent and picks. Now they either get nothing OR pay him another $31M to not play for a season and then have him walk away.

KD is still gonna get paid. He also already has his chips. Legacy is all that left to drive him. Moments like this. Coming back from injury to help his team win the chip after being down 3-1 is a very very appealing legacy booster. There people in his ear about the downside and risk you mention. Probably wasn't as loud or applied as much pressure as the people who were in his ear trying to get him back on the court.

"Yo I'm a Knick!! Whhhaat" - RJ Barrett
smackeddog
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6/11/2019  12:54 PM
Kd's in a tough spot- the sensible thing would be to just stay with GS- likely he's diminished when he returns, so having a supporting cast of Curry, Klay etc, really gives him the best shot at being a highly contributing player. At the same time he must feel rightly p'd off- at those leaking the doubts that he could play etc, and the medical staff who guaranteed he couldn't re-injure it. The latter is the real betrayal because even doing the most basic of research, you find that if the calf is weaker you risk an achilles injury (or even worsening your calf). To top it off they gave him 1 short practice (tweets at the time said he was the first back in the locker room, following a practice where Windhurst and Jalen Rose said he looked no where near ready. To top it off Kerr then plays him nearly the entire first quarter. It's absolute madness, and all those out in the press giving the Warriors the benefit of the doubt are deluding themselves.

The GM NOW comes out and shuts down talk that KD could have played earlier but didn't want to. Where was that support the last few days when Kerr gave ambiguous comments that implied they thought he was coming back for Game 4?

So in short, I think they lied about the initial injury (if you see the ice packs from earlier in the week, they were clearly over the achilles), they then leaked out/failed to squash rummers that he was ready to play, thus putting pressure on him. They were then grossly negligent telling him he wasn't at risk of injury and was cleared to play, they underprepared him for his return by giving only a brief practice, and then Kerr over played him. I suspect because they thought he was leaving, they were less cautious.

And while I'm at it- Looney should not be playing! He has a broken bone, it's crazy to clear him to play. Disgraceful org.

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6/11/2019  12:56 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
anrst wrote:Mills and Perry: STAY AWAY

If this was Jordan at 31, would you say that?

Other than Klay and Kemba, all of the TOP FA has had major injuries. Who are you signing with a clean bill of health throughout his career.

Achilles is the worst injury in basketball. The point of signing KD was that he'd bring a star with him- do you think any star is going to sign this offseason when KD will be out for the year?

anrst
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6/11/2019  1:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/11/2019  1:07 PM
bob myers crying 'if you have to, blame me...'

nah man... it's not that we have to... it's just factually your fault

smackeddog
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6/11/2019  1:09 PM
anrst wrote:bob myers crying 'if you have to, blame me...'

nah man... it's not that we have to... it's just factually your fault

Exactly! And some of the media bought it.

dwiley20
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6/11/2019  1:40 PM
This how I look at it... obviously he rushed coming back because himself and everyone else wanted to him to play. Nothing wrong with that..He will earn his 3rd ring this year. he and 3 names on this free agent list should team up in NY. 25/ mill per..KD not hurting for money..I'm sure he makes plenty off court
martin
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6/11/2019  3:49 PM
Kinda rings true for me

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Allanfan20
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6/11/2019  5:03 PM
martin wrote:Kinda rings true for me

He’s right.

Friendship and business don’t mix.
If KD has to be out a yr..

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