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Free Agency 2019 (6/30 6pm ET)
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OffDaMeterzzzz
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5/30/2019  11:44 AM
Hi all:

I hope everyone is doing well and having a sensational 2019.

Long time since I've posted here. I've been a Knick fan since the early 90's and a message board reader since the MSG forum days. It's nice to see some old time loyal posters sharing their thoughts. It's also nice to finally see that we are starting a true rebuild and have picks and assets to work with.

How would you feel if the Knicks signed Kemba Walker and Tobias Harris to max deals this offseason?

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knicks1248
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5/30/2019  12:31 PM
OffDaMeterzzzz wrote:Hi all:

I hope everyone is doing well and having a sensational 2019.

Long time since I've posted here. I've been a Knick fan since the early 90's and a message board reader since the MSG forum days. It's nice to see some old time loyal posters sharing their thoughts. It's also nice to finally see that we are starting a true rebuild and have picks and assets to work with.

How would you feel if the Knicks signed Kemba Walker and Tobias Harris to max deals this offseason?

kemba has done nothing special for the hornets during his tenure other than post good numbers for himself.

Tobias is also a good player, but not even an all star. If you give those 2 max contract, we will average 39-42 wins for the next 4 seasons

ES
smackeddog
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5/30/2019  12:35 PM
OffDaMeterzzzz wrote:Hi all:

I hope everyone is doing well and having a sensational 2019.

Long time since I've posted here. I've been a Knick fan since the early 90's and a message board reader since the MSG forum days. It's nice to see some old time loyal posters sharing their thoughts. It's also nice to finally see that we are starting a true rebuild and have picks and assets to work with.

How would you feel if the Knicks signed Kemba Walker and Tobias Harris to max deals this offseason?

OffDaMeterzzzz
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5/30/2019  1:25 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
OffDaMeterzzzz wrote:Hi all:

I hope everyone is doing well and having a sensational 2019.

Long time since I've posted here. I've been a Knick fan since the early 90's and a message board reader since the MSG forum days. It's nice to see some old time loyal posters sharing their thoughts. It's also nice to finally see that we are starting a true rebuild and have picks and assets to work with.

How would you feel if the Knicks signed Kemba Walker and Tobias Harris to max deals this offseason?

kemba has done nothing special for the hornets during his tenure other than post good numbers for himself.

Tobias is also a good player, but not even an all star. If you give those 2 max contract, we will average 39-42 wins for the next 4 seasons


I'm concerned we strike out on KL, KD, KI, JB, impatiently panic, and decide to sign Walker and Harris (or similar third tier players) to long term max deals. This will likely keep us etched in mediocrity and unable to draft future high lottery picks. I'd love to bring in Leonard and Thompson, or Butler. Leonard and Thompson are winners, great defenders, selfless, hard working, high character, high IQ players in their late 20's. I also realize that it's wishful thinking.

Although super talented and entertaining to watch I'm not a fan of either Durant or Irving. I also don't think they are coming here. I think it's just media fluff, but I could also be wrong. I once believed that we had a real shot at Lebron in 2010 because of the mystique and glorious history of NY and MSG. All in all, I would prefer we built our team organically from the draft instead of signing free agents from other teams. For me, it would feel pure and authentic to have success with a team built from the ground up rather than chasing other team's superstars. On the flip side, I wouldn't say no to bringing in Durant either.

I hope we decide to do one year (short term) manageable, movable contracts if we we get turned down by KL, KD, KI, KT, JB. We can then continue to stockpile assets, draft picks, cap space, and try again when the time is right. Otherwise we could be setting ourselves up for more of the same rinse, cycle, repeat. There's no rule stating the need to rush the rebuild.

KnickDanger
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5/30/2019  3:48 PM
OffDaMeterzzzz wrote:
How would you feel if the Knicks signed Kemba Walker and Tobias Harris to max deals this offseason?

I hope not. One or the other perhaps? It would be overpaying but that's how it goes. But signing both at max...ugh. It would tie up cap space and leave us with rookies and marginal players going forward. Really, I am one of the few who'd prefer a slow rebuild through the draft, then some smart trades or FA's. Of course that is easier said than done.

The only players I'd be good with at max really are Kahwi and KD. If you gotta sign someone else to go with them then so be it.

Allanfan20
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5/30/2019  4:06 PM
ODM, I remember you. I enjoyed your posts....

I am completely against this though. I’d rather sign nobody.

I’ll take Walker if you get KD or Kawhi. That’s about all.

“Bonkers!” - Marcus Morris
Nalod
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5/31/2019  6:38 AM
Kemba is what he is. Is he to enhance a talented but very young squad.
Tobias Harris. Its not how he is you pay for, its what you project he could still be. The brilliance in moves is not to pay for what has been but what can. Durant/Kyrie are proven so its easy to project but age will matter.
Young player on the rise represents potential.
What’s funny is sometimes fans think the past is like some genetic heredity markers that will repeat itself.
True only if Dolan insists his team make the same thinking over and over. I’d like to think we broke that chain.
ITs why when Mills signed Hardaway it did not bother me. Why? At that moment he was seen as having more potential and I’d rather pay a premium for that then a starphuch premium for something in the past that likely won’t be replicated. LIke we did with Amare.
I’m down with Durant at his current prime but expect a decline. While positioning makes no sense a Durant/Harris pairing might represent a player in his prime and one still to reach his. Both have risks.
This shyt is hard.
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Knixkik
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5/31/2019  10:49 AM
Walker would be fine. He's a good player who was built for NY and is low-baggage. He stays healthy and can lead the way while the young guys develop. No one would be expecting a title, but he would improve the team and allow guys like Barrett, Knox, and Mitch to continue to grow at their own rate. No to Harris though, he doesn't really bring anything new to the table and isn't a star.
Nalod
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5/31/2019  12:11 PM
Knixkik wrote:Walker would be fine. He's a good player who was built for NY and is low-baggage. He stays healthy and can lead the way while the young guys develop. No one would be expecting a title, but he would improve the team and allow guys like Barrett, Knox, and Mitch to continue to grow at their own rate. No to Harris though, he doesn't really bring anything new to the table and isn't a star.

I want stars, or guys that will be stars. Im ok with Rookies but know not all turn out. More rookies, more chance one or more can be a star.
Same for Harris. at 26 he is a 20 amd 8 player. Can knox get there? I think so. Gonna take a while. I'd pass on Harris at big money.
Kid is Fron Dix Hills, So he from NY too!!! LOL
Personally Kemba being from the Bronx, Kyrie from NY don't mean a thing unless its on the court. Im picking players, not where they are from. Carmelo "came home". Did any of that ever matter??? It did at first but it never added any value. I like Melo.
I can't stand KP, but all I care is what he did on the court in a knick uniform!!!

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fwk00
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5/31/2019  12:20 PM
Who is Tobias Harris?
BigDaddyG
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5/31/2019  1:31 PM
fwk00 wrote:Who is Tobias Harris?

I think it's this guy.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
TripleThreat
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5/31/2019  8:28 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:ODM, I remember you. I enjoyed your posts....

I am completely against this though. I’d rather sign nobody.

I’ll take Walker if you get KD or Kawhi. That’s about all.


Team needs to get to the cap floor. While there is a provision for teams under that floor to payout the players on it's existing rosters the spare money, the league will basically punish the Knicks if they stay under the floor. This is fallout from the Hinkie/76ers situation.

I'm not saying to kneejerk sign someone just to get to the cap floor, but it's an issue. Having the most cap space available means they have to find a way to get to the cap floor in a practical way. Raw open cap space is NOT the boon everyone thinks it can be.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
CrushAlot
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5/31/2019  11:22 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:ODM, I remember you. I enjoyed your posts....

I am completely against this though. I’d rather sign nobody.

I’ll take Walker if you get KD or Kawhi. That’s about all.


Team needs to get to the cap floor. While there is a provision for teams under that floor to payout the players on it's existing rosters the spare money, the league will basically punish the Knicks if they stay under the floor. This is fallout from the Hinkie/76ers situation.

I'm not saying to kneejerk sign someone just to get to the cap floor, but it's an issue. Having the most cap space available means they have to find a way to get to the cap floor in a practical way. Raw open cap space is NOT the boon everyone thinks it can be.

If they go this route, I think they sign a high character vet to a one year deal that might be an over pay. Hinkie was a master with the cap floor He always got a player at the deadline that brought the sixers up to the floor for the last 1/3 of the season.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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6/1/2019  7:24 AM
Sixers paid Reddick 24 mil one year. I thought it was nuts, but he turned out to be a really valuable piece of what they did. I think he pulled down 12 last season.
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y2zipper
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6/1/2019  12:53 PM
The approach to long term contracts is you have to get a number one guy before a number 2 guy, etc... Signing Kemba and Harris together makes no sense on thay regard.

Ones out there are Durant, Leonard, and Jimmy Butler to a lesser extent. You don't bother picking up Irving, Walker or Harris if a one doesn't sign.

BigDaddyG
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6/1/2019  3:16 PM
Interesting if true. Wonder if Charlotte has already made it's peace with Kemba's departure.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
90sKnicks
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6/1/2019  6:12 PM
Here's the quick synopsis for the Knicks guide to free agency.

FRANCHISE PLAYERS
-Kevin Durant: i'm not convinced Durant can handle the pressure of NY and i'm not convinced his timeline fits the team but he's a top 5 player in the league and isn't that far past his prime
-Kawhi Leonard: a great two-way player, proven winner, and a guy i think can handle NY. plus he's a little younger than a lot of the other free agents so his timeline fits nicely

If either of these two players want to come here, you don't think twice and you give them the max. If both come, then the Knicks are guaranteed to be a Top 3 team in the league.

GREAT PLAYERS BUT NOT FRANCHISE PLAYERS
-Klay Thompson: a great signing as long as he isn't the franchise player
-Kemba Walker: NY-tough, proven clutch, and a great signing as long as he isn't the franchise player

If you are able to pair Durant or Leonard with Thompson or Walker then you do it and you are a Top 6 team in the league

STAY AWAY - DO NOT SIGN
-Kyrie Irving: too injury prone, not a great leader, doesn't make teammates better, isn't a good defender. Kyrie can be an electric scorer at times (when healthy) and can put on fancy moves that look like they are from an AND-1 mix tape, but he's not worth a max contract. I see him as being a very good 3rd best player on a team if the two best players are great two-way players. Stay away. Let him go to Brooklyn, put on entertaining performances (when healthy) at the Barclay's Center for a Nets team that struggles to get a 7th seed in the playoffs and loses first round every year.
-Jimmy Butler: on the one hand, i like Butler's toughness and defense and desire to win, but on the other hand, i think his career is on the way down and he seems to be trouble everywhere he goes. Stay away.
-DeMarcus Cousins: good player, but hasn't proven to stay healthy recently and is not worth the headache that the coaches will have to endure

Let these players be some other team's problem. STAY AWAY!

GOOD PLAYERS BUT NOT WORTH A MAX DEAL
Tobias Harris
Khris Middleton
D'Angelo Russell

These players are solid players and players i like. I just don't think they are worth a max contract nor do i think you can win if they are your 1st or 2nd best player. I would take any of them if the price was reasonable but it won't be. Let some other overpay and regret it.


As far as Anthony Davis goes, he's a great player but not worth trading for. I definitely wouldn't give up the 3rd pick in the draft (our lowest draft pick since Patrick Ewing), any of the future Dallas draft picks, or Mitchell Robinson for him. If the Knicks do any of that they are just dumb and repeating history. I'd love for Davis to come here, as a free agent next year where we don't have to give up anything. If he doesn't want to wait, then it's his loss. The Lakers are a mess and have nothing worth anything to offer the Pelicans and he doesn't want to go anywhere else. Don't give in and overpay.

In summary, if the Knicks can get Kawhi or Durant and pair either of them with Klay or Kemba that would great. If they can pair Kawhi and Durant together that would be amazing. However, Klay isn't coming to NY so that is not going to happen, so basically it's Durant/Kawhi and Kemba. If not, then don't waste the money on anyone else, save cap space for future years or consider trading for Anthony Davis if you don't have to give up Mitchell Robinson or the #3 pick. Commit to a rebuild the right way. We're only year 2 in the rebuild mode (which started when we traded Carmelo). There's no need to get impatient and overpay non-franchise players like Kyrie, Butler, Cousins, Harris, Middleton, or Russell. And no need to give up everything for Davis.

TripleThreat
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6/1/2019  7:37 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:ODM, I remember you. I enjoyed your posts....

I am completely against this though. I’d rather sign nobody.

I’ll take Walker if you get KD or Kawhi. That’s about all.


Team needs to get to the cap floor. While there is a provision for teams under that floor to payout the players on it's existing rosters the spare money, the league will basically punish the Knicks if they stay under the floor. This is fallout from the Hinkie/76ers situation.

I'm not saying to kneejerk sign someone just to get to the cap floor, but it's an issue. Having the most cap space available means they have to find a way to get to the cap floor in a practical way. Raw open cap space is NOT the boon everyone thinks it can be.

If they go this route, I think they sign a high character vet to a one year deal that might be an over pay. Hinkie was a master with the cap floor He always got a player at the deadline that brought the sixers up to the floor for the last 1/3 of the season.

Cap Hit Vs Cash Hit

Hinkie traded for the face value of the contract but only paid the cash out in the proration of the contract itself ( For example, if a guy had a 1 year / 10 million dollar deal, Hinkie would get the cap value of the 10 million entering his books, but the previous team paid that player up to that point, so Hinkie only had to pay the prorated value of the rest of the contract)

The issue for most teams is the salary matching issue, so this would be moot ( You pay out for X amount of time for your outgoing player, so it will tend to equalize out on both sides) But since the 76ers were always so far under the cap, they could absorb a player's contract WITHOUT much of a salary matching problem.

It's still technically legal, but if you do it, the league administration will come down hard on you. Also the NBAPA will have a problem. While there is still a long term payout during the season, it takes a bidder out of the FA bidding process in general and will appear to cut away at general inflation of salaries across the board.

Think of it like any professional sport. There are some things that are technically legal to do, but are seen as basically gigantic "Being a total prick" moves and poor sportsmanship.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
GustavBahler
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6/2/2019  11:48 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nba-rumors-chris-paul-could-230522279.html
GustavBahler
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6/2/2019  11:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/2/2019  12:04 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rumor-sixers-going-max-jimmy-210031199.html

Saying Kwahi is going to sign a sbort term deal with Toronto. Wish we could offer short term deals to some of the players I hear the Knicks are targeting.

Free Agency 2019 (6/30 6pm ET)

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