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How far are you willing to go this offseason?
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smackeddog
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5/16/2019  11:20 AM
So on a scale, with one end being "just build with young players and the draft" and the opposite ed being "give up the farm for established stars", where does everyone fall?

It seems we're at least looking into he possibility of trading for AD- to me, this only seems to make sense if they plan on bringing him as the third star this offseason, rather than just one of two. If that's the case, do you do it, and at what cost?

So according to Knicks Film School to make the salaries match (or come within the required % in a trade- I think Bagely said we'd need AD to waive his trade kicker and we'd need to send out at least $22mil), we'd need to include:

Frank $4.4mil
DSJ $4.4mil
Knox $4.3mil
RJ Barrett $7.8mil

Also picks

The key is, would you also include Mitch or is that your breaking point?

The Levels are:

1) If we luck out, just keep building with youth and picks
2) Sign one Big FA this offseason (KD) to play alongside our young guys and keep building
3) Sign TWO big FA's and keep all our young guys
4) Sign TWO big FA's and trade for AD BUT do NOT include Mitch
5) Sign TWO big FA's and trade for AD giving up Mitch and whatever it takes

I'm willing to go up to level 4, maybe- definitely not 5. I'm happy at level 3, which is where I hope we'll end up this offseason.

AUTOADVERT
Marv
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5/16/2019  11:50 AM
I'm level 3 all the way. I think it's the way to manage our payroll and hit the right balance with this squad. I just don't see adding AD bringing better overall value than retaining barrett, mitch, knox, dsjr, trier, dot, frank. 3 stars with no rest of the team imo won't get it done now and will ensure it won't get done later. 2 major FA's with this core of youth and the retention of our #1's brings back the most return on our current assets and sets us up for maximal continued development imo.
“This board has become a repository for mentally unstable attention seekers. Or gimmick posters.” - sebstar
smackeddog
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5/16/2019  12:13 PM
Marv wrote:I'm level 3 all the way. I think it's the way to manage our payroll and hit the right balance with this squad. I just don't see adding AD bringing better overall value than retaining barrett, mitch, knox, dsjr, trier, dot, frank. 3 stars with no rest of the team imo won't get it done now and will ensure it won't get done later. 2 major FA's with this core of youth and the retention of our #1's brings back the most return on our current assets and sets us up for maximal continued development imo.

I agree, though if you managed to keep trier, Mitch and Dotson, then re-sign Luke, plus use the room exemption you’d have a semblance of a bench and then have the full MLE and bi annual and drafted player next offseason

BigDaddyG
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5/16/2019  12:22 PM
Marv wrote:I'm level 3 all the way. I think it's the way to manage our payroll and hit the right balance with this squad. I just don't see adding AD bringing better overall value than retaining barrett, mitch, knox, dsjr, trier, dot, frank. 3 stars with no rest of the team imo won't get it done now and will ensure it won't get done later. 2 major FA's with this core of youth and the retention of our #1's brings back the most return on our current assets and sets us up for maximal continued development imo.

If all we had to give up was DSJ, Knox, Frank, Frank and the Dallas picks, would you still make the trade? Mitch is the only "young" player that would make hesitate.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
smackeddog
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5/16/2019  12:33 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Marv wrote:I'm level 3 all the way. I think it's the way to manage our payroll and hit the right balance with this squad. I just don't see adding AD bringing better overall value than retaining barrett, mitch, knox, dsjr, trier, dot, frank. 3 stars with no rest of the team imo won't get it done now and will ensure it won't get done later. 2 major FA's with this core of youth and the retention of our #1's brings back the most return on our current assets and sets us up for maximal continued development imo.

If all we had to give up was DSJ, Knox, Frank, Frank and the Dallas picks, would you still make the trade? Mitch is the only "young" player that would make hesitate.

Two Franks?! that would be kind of tempting as I’ve been assuming were dumping Frank anyways this offseason, I’m not sold on DSJ either. I’d like to see how Knox turns out, so it would be sad to lose him. Including the Mavs picks wouldn’t bother me as we’d essentially be trading KP, Tim Jr, Lee for AD.

Can’t decide!

jskinny35
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5/16/2019  1:02 PM
I'm at Level 3 as well and really think Mitch is a better fit next to KD then AD would be. You need role players and Mitch plays defense, doesn't command the ball for shots, and costs a fraction of what an AD would cost. Maybe one of the potential trade bait players turns into a solid player - Frank, DSJr, Knox, RJB... worth giving them another year on a cheap payroll instead of possibly regretting their future development elsewhere. I'd soften this position if it were year 3. Frank is coming to where he needs to show something of it's fine to simply cut him. Don't like Knox much yet, but he's got talent and was a one and done college player - so he really deserves this year to see if he can work hard and progress.

I'd probably have to take a few years off if the Knicks trade Mitch for AD as the FO has finally been saying the right things - roster flexibility, long-term plan, etc... Let's hope they are disciplined enough to stay the course

Allanfan20
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5/16/2019  2:01 PM
What makes everyone think Mitch is a starter yet?
Title odds are 200:1. So you're saying there's a chance!
BigDaddyG
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5/16/2019  2:08 PM
smackeddog wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Marv wrote:I'm level 3 all the way. I think it's the way to manage our payroll and hit the right balance with this squad. I just don't see adding AD bringing better overall value than retaining barrett, mitch, knox, dsjr, trier, dot, frank. 3 stars with no rest of the team imo won't get it done now and will ensure it won't get done later. 2 major FA's with this core of youth and the retention of our #1's brings back the most return on our current assets and sets us up for maximal continued development imo.

If all we had to give up was DSJ, Knox, Frank, Frank and the Dallas picks, would you still make the trade? Mitch is the only "young" player that would make hesitate.

Two Franks?! that would be kind of tempting as I’ve been assuming were dumping Frank anyways this offseason, I’m not sold on DSJ either. I’d like to see how Knox turns out, so it would be sad to lose him. Including the Mavs picks wouldn’t bother me as we’d essentially be trading KP, Tim Jr, Lee for AD.

Can’t decide!

Ha, I meant Barret. I'm not as high on him. I see Andrew Wiggins with more of a motor, which would make him a prime Rudy Gay. Nice player, but not someone I would lose sleep over. I'd like to see how Knox turns out too, but we're talking Anthony Davis.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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5/16/2019  2:14 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:What makes everyone think Mitch is a starter yet?

It's all potential at this point, but the flashes he's shown paint the picture of a player who's skillset won't be easily replicated. Even if he reaches his potential, chances are he still won't touch AD. But Mitch, on top of everything else, isn't a no-brainer for me. That said, I might still do it.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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5/16/2019  2:15 PM
Im at level three and not thinking we contend year one. Reality is never that absolute. Its not "hate" but real. "Then why would Durant-Kyrie do it?"
Good question I can't answer.

My thinking is if there is a high confidence level that you can get all three and enough support to make a real run then go for it.
If not then logic dictates two things:

1. Team looks at a 2-3 year window to keep building with level 3 but that does not mean it stays static. their values would fluctuate and thus a different trade might occur down the road.
2. Durant got this all figured out with knicks and either all in or not at all. AKA: We don't have a clue!

You don't show a fool a job half done!
CrushAlot
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5/16/2019  4:23 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:What makes everyone think Mitch is a starter yet?

It's all potential at this point, but the flashes he's shown paint the picture of a player who's skillset won't be easily replicated. Even if he reaches his potential, chances are he still won't touch AD. But Mitch, on top of everything else, isn't a no-brainer for me. That said, I might still do it.

Also, the coaches rave about how quickly Mitch picks up things that he is shown. I think AD gets a Herschel Walker like return. I don’t think the Knicks should give up that much.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BigDaddyG
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5/16/2019  5:07 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:What makes everyone think Mitch is a starter yet?

It's all potential at this point, but the flashes he's shown paint the picture of a player who's skillset won't be easily replicated. Even if he reaches his potential, chances are he still won't touch AD. But Mitch, on top of everything else, isn't a no-brainer for me. That said, I might still do it.

Also, the coaches rave about how quickly Mitch picks up things that he is shown. I think AD gets a Herschel Walker like return. I don’t think the Knicks should give up that much.

I wouldn't compare to Herschel, especially is we sign KD and Kyrie. It would be more in line with the Melo trade. Or better yet, when the Celts went all in on the big three. Herschel was 27 at the time of the trade, which means something different when you're talking about NFL running backs. A lot things have to fall into place before I can give a definitive opinion.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
fwk00
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5/16/2019  5:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/16/2019  5:24 PM
Trading for AD may be as much about keeping him out of Boston as being critical here.

Knicks don't need to throw in the kitchen sink for AD. Take back a large contract and NO would be happy.

Holiday, Davis, Durant become your big three.

KnixinSix
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5/16/2019  6:01 PM
smackeddog wrote:So on a scale, with one end being "just build with young players and the draft" and the opposite ed being "give up the farm for established stars", where does everyone fall?

It seems we're at least looking into he possibility of trading for AD- to me, this only seems to make sense if they plan on bringing him as the third star this offseason, rather than just one of two. If that's the case, do you do it, and at what cost?

So according to Knicks Film School to make the salaries match (or come within the required % in a trade- I think Bagely said we'd need AD to waive his trade kicker and we'd need to send out at least $22mil), we'd need to include:

Frank $4.4mil
DSJ $4.4mil
Knox $4.3mil
RJ Barrett $7.8mil

Also picks

The key is, would you also include Mitch or is that your breaking point?

The Levels are:

1) If we luck out, just keep building with youth and picks
2) Sign one Big FA this offseason (KD) to play alongside our young guys and keep building
3) Sign TWO big FA's and keep all our young guys
4) Sign TWO big FA's and trade for AD BUT do NOT include Mitch
5) Sign TWO big FA's and trade for AD giving up Mitch and whatever it takes

I'm willing to go up to level 4, maybe- definitely not 5. I'm happy at level 3, which is where I hope we'll end up this offseason.


Prefer 4 would do 5 if we had to. I think the deal will be closer to 4 which will include Dal unprotected pick but no Mitch and us getting their 2nd round pick this year. Barrett carries A TON of value for a team to be built around Zion.Possibly the top piece of any trade they could get.

DSJ
Frank
Knox
2019 #3
Dallas Unprotected 1st round pick

For

AD
Pels 2019 2nd round pick

smackeddog
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5/17/2019  2:48 AM
KnixinSix wrote:
smackeddog wrote:So on a scale, with one end being "just build with young players and the draft" and the opposite ed being "give up the farm for established stars", where does everyone fall?

It seems we're at least looking into he possibility of trading for AD- to me, this only seems to make sense if they plan on bringing him as the third star this offseason, rather than just one of two. If that's the case, do you do it, and at what cost?

So according to Knicks Film School to make the salaries match (or come within the required % in a trade- I think Bagely said we'd need AD to waive his trade kicker and we'd need to send out at least $22mil), we'd need to include:

Frank $4.4mil
DSJ $4.4mil
Knox $4.3mil
RJ Barrett $7.8mil

Also picks

The key is, would you also include Mitch or is that your breaking point?

The Levels are:

1) If we luck out, just keep building with youth and picks
2) Sign one Big FA this offseason (KD) to play alongside our young guys and keep building
3) Sign TWO big FA's and keep all our young guys
4) Sign TWO big FA's and trade for AD BUT do NOT include Mitch
5) Sign TWO big FA's and trade for AD giving up Mitch and whatever it takes

I'm willing to go up to level 4, maybe- definitely not 5. I'm happy at level 3, which is where I hope we'll end up this offseason.


Prefer 4 would do 5 if we had to. I think the deal will be closer to 4 which will include Dal unprotected pick but no Mitch and us getting their 2nd round pick this year. Barrett carries A TON of value for a team to be built around Zion.Possibly the top piece of any trade they could get.

DSJ
Frank
Knox
2019 #3
Dallas Unprotected 1st round pick

For

AD
Pels 2019 2nd round pick

The thing that makes me wonder about level 4 or 5 is that Mills and Perry only a few weeks ago categorically said "we won't skip steps"- how is trading all our youth and some future picks not skipping steps? I mean, I think you can make a case for it, i just don't get why they re-iterated that point if they were okay trading for AD.

Nalod
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5/17/2019  8:13 AM
I would engage NOLA in talks but mostly to participate in a market that drives up the price for others to pay.
An active market drives up the price.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
NotInMyHouse
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5/17/2019  9:24 AM
I would choose #3.

I do want to win, but getting 3 max free agents AND selling off all our assets to get that 3rd one, well... That doesn't feel like winning to me, key word "me".

I don't want winning to come down to "IF our 3 max cats are healthy in the playoffs, we probably win." A bit more uncertainty would be nice, even though our last championship was half a century ago.

Nalod
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5/17/2019  10:28 AM
Even Berman today stokes the AD to knicks thing but does not delve into the pesky details of what the team looks like afterwards or how you fit in potential FA's.
If Zion is Lebron, and Barret is McGrady/Harden is the two Dallas picks, Mitch and Frank really worth the difference? If you don't build around Lebron or anyone you don't win chips!!!!
What is Mitch's upside? The Dallas pick could be a lottery pick if KP is not a healthy boy.

The Starphuch is all wonderful to have AD in NY but the details are what they and fans need to understand what Dolan seemed to not care about: The aftermath!!!

You don't show a fool a job half done!
GustavBahler
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5/17/2019  12:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/17/2019  12:30 PM
Dont believe Perry/Mills should be married to any plan. A single FA, the right FA might be a great player to run with the recent draft picks. Might be able to find two players who fit the bill. All.depends on the players who are willing to sign, their fit, their ability to stay on the court.

Im guessing if we trade for Davis, Durant could be next. Maybe Kyrie who has trouble staying healthy. Durant's calf injury (at his age) could be the canary in the coal mine.

We seem to have some recent draft picks who look like they could be special players. Some well exceeding expectations. Some like Knox, showing at the end of the season that they're starting to get it.

To quote one of my favorite films "History doesn't repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes".
With Durant hurt, Kyrie crashing and burning in Boston. Apparently not giving an F. Trading most of our good young prospects to build a team that wont have a deep enough bench to win a title. Would sound a lot like the old Knicks.

SupremeCommander
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5/17/2019  12:29 PM
Marv wrote:I'm level 3 all the way. I think it's the way to manage our payroll and hit the right balance with this squad. I just don't see adding AD bringing better overall value than retaining barrett, mitch, knox, dsjr, trier, dot, frank. 3 stars with no rest of the team imo won't get it done now and will ensure it won't get done later. 2 major FA's with this core of youth and the retention of our #1's brings back the most return on our current assets and sets us up for maximal continued development imo.

I am with you. The only caveat is i would be willing to go after three guys if we strike out with two. I would be happy with something like Middleton, Randle, and Mirotic for example

Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
How far are you willing to go this offseason?

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