smackeddog wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Tanking sucks, doesn't it? How's that third pick project gonna taste while Zion goes bat**** crazy in NO?

How's Philly doing? One game, it's Simmons/Embid!! All Hail the Process!" then "it's break them up and start over again", and the next game it's "greatest players ever, Hinkie for Prez" then it's.... And if I'm counting Philly's seasons correctly, it's been 5 seasons of tanking so they are now nice and mediocre and have resorted to starphucquing just to get into the playoffs and lose...

The tank worked. It got them to the third pick at the least. While missing out on Zion sucks. My gripe has always been have they done enough to develop what is already in the cupboard. They didn’t do enough but that is my opinion. Draft was strike one, two more strike to go. Next one will be KD turning the Knicks down for greener pastures. Then Kyrie will remain with Celtics as AD is traded to them.

This is the Knicks this team is always going to get left holding the bag. I don’t wish to bring gloom and doom but the reality is this is the Knicks. It’s been gloomy here for a long time. Nothing is certain with this team.

And the Pelicans got #1 without tanking. So your point, while full of poignancy acknowledging our beloved Knicks gloom and doom, is pointless. Philly fans are talking about trading away Simmons and they want Embid working on a Mr. Softee truck... gotta love that process.

Tanking sucks. When you suck, you almost are assured of continuing to suck. You are what you continually do.

Hinkie's a stat man for the Denver Broncos.

After the Anthony Davis trade demand, they pretty much went into tank mode by benching their best player...

Which is true and makes it so ironic that the team that made the most obvious tanking move after that point actually won the lottery. 🤷🏽‍♂️

how is this thread still running?! Look at the numbers:

1) Pelicans 33 wins
2) Griz 33 wins
3) Knicks 17 wins
4) Lakers 37 wins
5) Cavs 19 wins
6) Suns 19 wins
7) Bulls 22 wins
8) Hawks 29 wins
9) Wiz 32 wins

There is NO WAY we would have got to 33 wins even if we had maximised playing our vets and kept Kanter, therefore any more wins than the number we ended up with would have led to us having a lower draft pick than we do now. 2 more wins would have had us at 5 or 6. Five more wins and we'd be picking at 7th etc etc. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, how can anyone claim tanking didn't work this year for us?! In fact it proves tanking worked for us as only a few more wins could have had us end up with the 7th pick instead of the 3rd. So all you people who complained about us rooting for losses all season, bow before us and plead for forgiveness!

You make a great point about tanking. But I feel that tanking in the NBA is dead. Theres no point with this new lottery system. Tanking gives you a 14% chance. If you score 14 on a test you fail. 14% doesn't guarantee anything but a long season of false anticipation. Look at the Cavs and Suns. Ask them if tanking worked for them. It's a lottery....Nothing else to be said.

Now coaches can actually coach. Now we can see if Fitz was tanking to get 17 wins, or was he coaching and could only get 17 wins with his coaching style and current roster.

blkexec wrote:In the NFL, worst team gets the top pick. AZ was the worst team, they picked 1st.

In the NBA, bottom 2 teams has a 14% chance of getting the top pick. Knicks, Cavs, Suns was the worst teams, and they picked 3rd, 5th, 6th

If this isnt a clear answer to this question, I have nothing else to say.

But did tanking work for us THIS YEAR? YES

Is tanking a good strategy to build a team? NO....It wasn't before, and it's even worst now.

There was a higher chance of the worst team getting the #1 pick with the old system. And it didn't work then.

With the new system, our chances of getting the #1 pick is even lower now. Please burry this idea of tanking 6ft deep already, and play some ball. The reality is we sucked last year and got lucky to get the 3rd pick.

The lottery system is luck. There's a strategy to it. What if Fitz was actually coaching, and we won 33 games, we would have the number 1 pick. Next year, it will be a different team that non of us thought would get the #1 pick. It's luck fellas. It's a lottery. It's gambling.

We all need to attend my GA meetings, if you think tanking will get you a top pick.

If organization has a roster of rebuilding team capable of making playoffs, or even fight for it, tanking is bad strategy.
However if rebuild is just started and team can win only 25-35 games there is no point to push for more wins at the expense of development of core players regardless of them stay or became trade assets. Dropping 10 more games will increase the odds and other team building related tasks will be also achieved. It's just common sense. As far as coaching goes some coaches are good for development rosters and some for contenders.
Very rare when coach can be good at both. Fiz is good development coach and question mark for contending teams.
Let him do his job and if he will show no skillet for running solid team we can always let him go. Its business. Nothing personal.
Same about players. They make the team better run with them. They are determent let them go. No hard filling no cold goodbyes.

smackeddog wrote:

blkexec wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Tanking sucks, doesn't it? How's that third pick project gonna taste while Zion goes bat**** crazy in NO?

How's Philly doing? One game, it's Simmons/Embid!! All Hail the Process!" then "it's break them up and start over again", and the next game it's "greatest players ever, Hinkie for Prez" then it's.... And if I'm counting Philly's seasons correctly, it's been 5 seasons of tanking so they are now nice and mediocre and have resorted to starphucquing just to get into the playoffs and lose...

The tank worked. It got them to the third pick at the least. While missing out on Zion sucks. My gripe has always been have they done enough to develop what is already in the cupboard. They didn’t do enough but that is my opinion. Draft was strike one, two more strike to go. Next one will be KD turning the Knicks down for greener pastures. Then Kyrie will remain with Celtics as AD is traded to them.

This is the Knicks this team is always going to get left holding the bag. I don’t wish to bring gloom and doom but the reality is this is the Knicks. It’s been gloomy here for a long time. Nothing is certain with this team.

And the Pelicans got #1 without tanking. So your point, while full of poignancy acknowledging our beloved Knicks gloom and doom, is pointless. Philly fans are talking about trading away Simmons and they want Embid working on a Mr. Softee truck... gotta love that process.

Tanking sucks. When you suck, you almost are assured of continuing to suck. You are what you continually do.

Hinkie's a stat man for the Denver Broncos.

After the Anthony Davis trade demand, they pretty much went into tank mode by benching their best player...

Which is true and makes it so ironic that the team that made the most obvious tanking move after that point actually won the lottery. 🤷🏽‍♂️

how is this thread still running?! Look at the numbers:

1) Pelicans 33 wins
2) Griz 33 wins
3) Knicks 17 wins
4) Lakers 37 wins
5) Cavs 19 wins
6) Suns 19 wins
7) Bulls 22 wins
8) Hawks 29 wins
9) Wiz 32 wins

There is NO WAY we would have got to 33 wins even if we had maximised playing our vets and kept Kanter, therefore any more wins than the number we ended up with would have led to us having a lower draft pick than we do now. 2 more wins would have had us at 5 or 6. Five more wins and we'd be picking at 7th etc etc. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, how can anyone claim tanking didn't work this year for us?! In fact it proves tanking worked for us as only a few more wins could have had us end up with the 7th pick instead of the 3rd. So all you people who complained about us rooting for losses all season, bow before us and plead for forgiveness!

You make a great point about tanking. But I feel that tanking in the NBA is dead. Theres no point with this new lottery system. Tanking gives you a 14% chance. If you score 14 on a test you fail. 14% doesn't guarantee anything but a long season of false anticipation. Look at the Cavs and Suns. Ask them if tanking worked for them. It's a lottery....Nothing else to be said.

Now coaches can actually coach. Now we can see if Fitz was tanking to get 17 wins, or was he coaching and could only get 17 wins with his coaching style and current roster.

problem is they may have solved tanking, but in order to do so they've damned teams that are legitimately bad

Exactly! They worried about one or two teams trying to lose in purpose while forgetting the fact that most of those teams with the worst records are really bad. I honestly think one example is us. We relied on a lot of young players that while with some talent, were very hard pressed to get wins. We had many close games we fought hard but simply didn't have the talent to win.

Everything a fan knows happennd in the past.
Every decision a team makes is based on a future unknown.

On paper a future threat has Frank, RJ, Smith, Mitch and Knox has potential.
The “Tank” was not what we think most tanks should be. We developed players but can’t quantify because we only won 17 games.

Did it work? Maybe there was no “tank”, it was a season to do what we did. Labels create expectations.

IF we did not do what we did:

Mitch is a Gleague abyss player.
Dotson never players.
We don’t give Treir the reps.
If we catered to KP, he is still here. WE did not. The “tank” pushed him out.
Did Mudiay really improve? I’m not saying to keep him but the kid did raise his game significantly.
Mario? Was hit his late contract push or did a long season eventually get the light to go off in his head?
Frank did not pan out. The process developed others.
Nalod likes AD but not the price we paid to clear cap to sign two max, and pay it again to get him. Nope.

Plan b or c. Keep developing, bring in contracts and let teams pay for us to have them. Make some small trades and keep hoarding assets. Won’t help much next year unless you like young players that develop and don’t have starphuch aspirations. Even if Durant and Kyrie come I dont think we build a chip winning team over one summer.
I doubt they do either.

smackeddog wrote:

bigjeep8 wrote:To answer the posts title, NO!

The numbers are right in front of your face:

1) Pelicans 33 wins
2) Griz 33 wins
3) Knicks 17 wins
4) Lakers 37 wins
5) Cavs 19 wins
6) Suns 19 wins
7) Bulls 22 wins
8) Hawks 29 wins
9) Wiz 32 wins

The evidence is right there- if we'd won any more games we would have ended up with a much later pick

Pelicans and Griz 1 and 2 with 33 wins? Cavs and Suns with 19 wins at 5 and 6? Knicks with the least wins at 3? Tanking helps? Sorry, don't see it.

smackeddog wrote:

bigjeep8 wrote:To answer the posts title, NO!

The numbers are right in front of your face:

1) Pelicans 33 wins
2) Griz 33 wins
3) Knicks 17 wins
4) Lakers 37 wins
5) Cavs 19 wins
6) Suns 19 wins
7) Bulls 22 wins
8) Hawks 29 wins
9) Wiz 32 wins

The evidence is right there- if we'd won any more games we would have ended up with a much later pick

Yes....evidence is clear....we not only had to win more games to get zion. We had to win exactly 33games.

Hindsight is 20/20