TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Tanking sucks, doesn't it? How's that third pick project gonna taste while Zion goes bat**** crazy in NO?

How's Philly doing? One game, it's Simmons/Embid!! All Hail the Process!" then "it's break them up and start over again", and the next game it's "greatest players ever, Hinkie for Prez" then it's.... And if I'm counting Philly's seasons correctly, it's been 5 seasons of tanking so they are now nice and mediocre and have resorted to starphucquing just to get into the playoffs and lose...

Right because talent is only 25% of the puzzle needed to win and be a contender..

25% coaching
25% talent
25% chemistry
25% Leadership and roles

Philly had the most talent in the East, but the core players just got there and only played together for a couple of months, and now there pretty fcked .

Where do your numbers come from? Are you sure about the distribution?

Yeah, I mean health, attitude, work ethic, personal and professional circumstances, being able to work under pressure, etc mean absolutely nothing to the team and individual player.

That falls under Leadership dude. I'm not trying to go that deep and break down every single aspect of a contender because LUCK also plays a role.

But the 4 points i have stated are the main factors..it just all has to balance out.

What the **** are you even talking about here?

There are two main issues to build a contender

THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT SIDE - If you don't get the money right and apply market based principles, you are ****ed. It's that simple. You could have the next coming of Oscar Robertson or George Mikan but if the cap sheet is ****ed up and is choking your flexibility, you can't build a team. This also includes having key players with their BIRD RIGHTS

The PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT SIDE - It's literally 95 percent talent. Unlike other sports, key elite players can touch the ball all the time. Mike Trout can only bat so many times a game. Ozzie Smith could only field so many balls hit to him. The great Roger Clemens could only take the mound so often.

What you need is to have talent who understand how not to be a total selfish ******* on the court. An elite talent who understands how to push/pull for the greater good of winning ( like Curry) makes leadership and chemistry easy. Makes it easier on the coach.

Where the coach matters is getting performance ( milking the best possible result) out of fringe guys. Spolestra making Joel Anthony look somewhat useful is miracle in coaching. Getting something out of Mario Chalmers and subverting Ray Allens aging knees and huge ego are testaments to good coaching.

25 percent talent my ass. If that was the case, every team in the league would offer Coach K the largest contract ever to coach their team.

Is the sky on your planet made of ****ing cotton candy?

Philly had talent, but they had a lot of *******s who didn't subvert their game to the greater good. To be fair, they are also a bit young as a team.

Sometimes I wonder if you just randomly come up with **** that makes no sense after turning on Netflix and going on another Care Bear binge watching marathon or some dumb ass noise like that.

LeBron James is one of the dumbest ****ing people on the planet. Tampering. Shit talking and gutting his team mates. Coach killer. Really not a well rounded player. Basically changed the entire system because pwners said this kind of Decision **** can never ever happen again. He was such an *******, they changed the system to make it more anti-*******. Think about that. But he went to Final after Final even as LeGM and ****ing his teams over and over with personnel moves that made no sense. But he was a world class generational talent. If you have enough talent, you can get away with lots of ****. If you are a hot chick who is young and has a hard body and big cans, you can also get away with lots of ****. If you got "Fuck You Money", you can get away with lots of ****. This is a very simple life principle, not just an NBA one.

Which Care Bear is your favorite?

LMAO.....Dude, you are obsessed with LeBron. Regardless of topic, you always manage to squeeze in a paragraph of how much you hate LeBron! Dude, we get it!

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Tanking sucks, doesn't it? How's that third pick project gonna taste while Zion goes bat**** crazy in NO?

How's Philly doing? One game, it's Simmons/Embid!! All Hail the Process!" then "it's break them up and start over again", and the next game it's "greatest players ever, Hinkie for Prez" then it's.... And if I'm counting Philly's seasons correctly, it's been 5 seasons of tanking so they are now nice and mediocre and have resorted to starphucquing just to get into the playoffs and lose...

People remember Joel, but forget Okafor, MCW and Fultz. The reality behind the process is that you need multiple of years of high picks to have a "chance" at drafting a high performer. If the choice is a risking salary cap on the THJ's and Terry Roziers of the world or tanking, than I'd rather tank.

The reality of the process is that if years of tanking gets Philly two pseudo jerkhead stars, a bunch of middling bench fodder journeymen, and you end up adding two starphucques to your team to be mediocre, my question remains, what's the reason for tanking? Picking #3?

We've got posters on here touting Zion the savior's shortcomings, Ja Morant and RJ Barrett are yoots that could flame out just as surely as our string of #8 picks have done.

When you suck as a way of life, you end up sucking. It's very simple. The lottery as constituted is horse****. Go back to the envelopes, and don't give anyone any reason to put scum on display for 82 games or spend a full season "auditioning". Auditioning is what the NBDL is for.

As has been stated before, Play the games.

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Tanking sucks, doesn't it? How's that third pick project gonna taste while Zion goes bat**** crazy in NO?

How's Philly doing? One game, it's Simmons/Embid!! All Hail the Process!" then "it's break them up and start over again", and the next game it's "greatest players ever, Hinkie for Prez" then it's.... And if I'm counting Philly's seasons correctly, it's been 5 seasons of tanking so they are now nice and mediocre and have resorted to starphucquing just to get into the playoffs and lose...

People remember Joel, but forget Okafor, MCW and Fultz. The reality behind the process is that you need multiple of years of high picks to have a "chance" at drafting a high performer. If the choice is a risking salary cap on the THJ's and Terry Roziers of the world or tanking, than I'd rather tank.

...and Nerlins Noel, and ....

The reality of the process is that if years of tanking gets Philly two pseudo jerkhead stars, a bunch of middling bench fodder journeymen, and you end up adding two starphucques to your team to be mediocre, my question remains, what's the reason for tanking? Picking #3?

We've got posters on here touting Zion the savior's shortcomings, Ja Morant and RJ Barrett are yoots that could flame out just as surely as our string of #8 picks have done.

When you suck as a way of life, you end up sucking. It's very simple. The lottery as constituted is horse****. Go back to the envelopes, and don't give anyone any reason to put scum on display for 82 games or spend a full season "auditioning". Auditioning is what the NBDL is for.

As has been stated before, Play the games.

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Tanking sucks, doesn't it? How's that third pick project gonna taste while Zion goes bat**** crazy in NO?

How's Philly doing? One game, it's Simmons/Embid!! All Hail the Process!" then "it's break them up and start over again", and the next game it's "greatest players ever, Hinkie for Prez" then it's.... And if I'm counting Philly's seasons correctly, it's been 5 seasons of tanking so they are now nice and mediocre and have resorted to starphucquing just to get into the playoffs and lose...

The tank worked. It got them to the third pick at the least. While missing out on Zion sucks. My gripe has always been have they done enough to develop what is already in the cupboard. They didn’t do enough but that is my opinion. Draft was strike one, two more strike to go. Next one will be KD turning the Knicks down for greener pastures. Then Kyrie will remain with Celtics as AD is traded to them.

This is the Knicks this team is always going to get left holding the bag. I don’t wish to bring gloom and doom but the reality is this is the Knicks. It’s been gloomy here for a long time. Nothing is certain with this team.

And the Pelicans got #1 without tanking. So your point, while full of poignancy acknowledging our beloved Knicks gloom and doom, is pointless. Philly fans are talking about trading away Simmons and they want Embid working on a Mr. Softee truck... gotta love that process.

Tanking sucks. When you suck, you almost are assured of continuing to suck. You are what you continually do.

Hinkie's a stat man for the Denver Broncos.

After the Anthony Davis trade demand, they pretty much went into tank mode by benching their best player...

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Tanking sucks, doesn't it? How's that third pick project gonna taste while Zion goes bat**** crazy in NO?

How's Philly doing? One game, it's Simmons/Embid!! All Hail the Process!" then "it's break them up and start over again", and the next game it's "greatest players ever, Hinkie for Prez" then it's.... And if I'm counting Philly's seasons correctly, it's been 5 seasons of tanking so they are now nice and mediocre and have resorted to starphucquing just to get into the playoffs and lose...

The tank worked. It got them to the third pick at the least. While missing out on Zion sucks. My gripe has always been have they done enough to develop what is already in the cupboard. They didn’t do enough but that is my opinion. Draft was strike one, two more strike to go. Next one will be KD turning the Knicks down for greener pastures. Then Kyrie will remain with Celtics as AD is traded to them.

This is the Knicks this team is always going to get left holding the bag. I don’t wish to bring gloom and doom but the reality is this is the Knicks. It’s been gloomy here for a long time. Nothing is certain with this team.

And the Pelicans got #1 without tanking. So your point, while full of poignancy acknowledging our beloved Knicks gloom and doom, is pointless. Philly fans are talking about trading away Simmons and they want Embid working on a Mr. Softee truck... gotta love that process.

Tanking sucks. When you suck, you almost are assured of continuing to suck. You are what you continually do.

Hinkie's a stat man for the Denver Broncos.

After the Anthony Davis trade demand, they pretty much went into tank mode by benching their best player...

They didn't go into tank mode, they were more concern with his (AD) fragile health, all they needed was for him to get some crazy injury and drop is value..

On the other hand, the knicks did everything in their power to lose games, 200 different line ups, playing players who were under contract for next season, failing to come up with any kind of system, putting a totally g league squad on the floor.

We walked away with the 3rd pick, and all of the young players looking hella suspect, their value decreasing Big time (except for Mitch).

Whatever their reasons were, New Orleans definitely tanked.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/sports/nba-anthony-davis-fines.html

Mike Bass, an N.B.A. spokesman, said Monday that “the Pelicans were advised that the team had not identified a proper basis” to hold Davis out of games.

“League rules governing competitive integrity therefore require that he be permitted to play,” Bass said.

I don't think the new lottery rules will stop tanking. It won't be so blatant, because now teams know they have better of getting the top pick regardless of if they're at the bottom or a borderline playoff team. In fact, you could see some team's declining to take a chance at a playoff push and opt for the lottery with the new odds. From a revenue standpoint the playoffs might make sense, but the lottery makes more sense from a talent acquisition standpoint.

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Tanking sucks, doesn't it? How's that third pick project gonna taste while Zion goes bat**** crazy in NO?

How's Philly doing? One game, it's Simmons/Embid!! All Hail the Process!" then "it's break them up and start over again", and the next game it's "greatest players ever, Hinkie for Prez" then it's.... And if I'm counting Philly's seasons correctly, it's been 5 seasons of tanking so they are now nice and mediocre and have resorted to starphucquing just to get into the playoffs and lose...

People remember Joel, but forget Okafor, MCW and Fultz. The reality behind the process is that you need multiple of years of high picks to have a "chance" at drafting a high performer. If the choice is a risking salary cap on the THJ's and Terry Roziers of the world or tanking, than I'd rather tank.

...and Nerlins Noel, and ....

The reality of the process is that if years of tanking gets Philly two pseudo jerkhead stars, a bunch of middling bench fodder journeymen, and you end up adding two starphucques to your team to be mediocre, my question remains, what's the reason for tanking? Picking #3?

We've got posters on here touting Zion the savior's shortcomings, Ja Morant and RJ Barrett are yoots that could flame out just as surely as our string of #8 picks have done.

When you suck as a way of life, you end up sucking. It's very simple. The lottery as constituted is horse****. Go back to the envelopes, and don't give anyone any reason to put scum on display for 82 games or spend a full season "auditioning". Auditioning is what the NBDL is for.

As has been stated before, Play the games.

Mediocre? They were one lucky shot away from the Eastern conference finals. The #3 pick is disappointing. But hey, Embiid was a #3 pick and Kristaps was #4. It's still a good asset. When you're at the bottom, you have to look at all avenues available for adding talent. The 76ers, despite Silver's dismay, did a good job managing their cap as well. I agree that they could've done better than Tobias Harris, but they still have moves available to improve. Is tanking alone enough. You need to be able to find talent elsewhere at lower cost and stay flexible, maybe be able to pounce when a star becomes available. There is a middle ground. Again, if the choice is wasting cap space in guys like THJ or Rozier, I'd rather tank.

So were the Knicks in 2012 amd most thought they should be scrapped. Specially Uncle Phil.

In time the 285 LB pogo stick might not be the best player. He is an outlier anomaly like KP regarding his physical presence. KP was a freak that had skills rare for someone 7’3. THere were concerns and it was PHil of all people that expressed them. We get the no. 1 pick I take Zion but it dont mean I don’t ignore things. A player who is a better athlete than a basketball player. By that, he has a good IQ on the floor the questions of it acclimating to the next level. When Darrel Griffith and David Thompson lost a step they were a bit neuralized. He has to improve. He is young, he likely will. But we are talking about a dancing elephant we have never seen before. Morant might be the next Westbrook, which also kind of sucks too. Westbrook is a stat whore who makes others around him worse, has a monster contract and is slow decline. GSW wins with two great guards. It’s rare. Guards don’t win chips alone. GSW season is being saved because Draymond resurgent this season. Back on task, R.J. is a great choice and if not for Zion we might be actually happier. He is not a finished product but has many refined attributes to be an allstar talent. So does Zion and Morant. Take away the contrast of those two and yes, the “Tank Worked”. We got a good asset!!!

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:The 54 win team was uneven thru the season. Super hot start with functional Rashweed and Kidd who by mid year were cooked. Melos fantastic April finish held our high seeding but the team gasped thru the Boston series and died to Indy. With 5 retires and Bargs coming in the team had more than a few holes to fill. It had peeked. Melo empowered with his NTC soon after and our reliance of JR smith also gave him privilege he took advantage of.
PHil dismantled a 39 win team that was deserving. His biggest mistake was thinking he could rebuild a young core with a trio of Melo-Noah-Drose and not trade any picks to enhance. His value added was “The Triangle” and if we could just be interesting sort of treading water with some playoff activity while a new culture was installed, again to add value and eventually have cap space to attract those who wanted in. Obviously it was not to be but on paper at the time Phil was just a few short years removed from his last chip in LA, had taken a Jordan who at 26 had yet to win and forged a Goat, then again with Kobe.........it was thought he had a transferable talent that he could teach to a his protege Kerr. Rose did not heal, Melo did not buy in, and Noah got high. The rest of PHils failure is well known. But he did not mortgage the future and his instincts on KP were correct in hindsight. KP did in fact need to be exiled.
The rules of the draft were well known and many uniformed knick fans who are hungover from not getting Zion. “Uninformed” because the whining about “We deserve him” after our 17win season is a total disregard for the mathematical facts that were there all season long. Before a single game was played, or lost.......14%. IN fact, Zion was not the mac-daddy pick in November, it was R.J. Barrett.

In time the 285 LB pogo stick might not be the best player. He is an outlier anomaly like KP regarding his physical presence. KP was a freak that had skills rare for someone 7’3. THere were concerns and it was PHil of all people that expressed them. We get the no. 1 pick I take Zion but it dont mean I don’t ignore things. A player who is a better athlete than a basketball player. By that, he has a good IQ on the floor the questions of it acclimating to the next level. When Darrel Griffith and David Thompson lost a step they were a bit neuralized. He has to improve. He is young, he likely will. But we are talking about a dancing elephant we have never seen before. Morant might be the next Westbrook, which also kind of sucks too. Westbrook is a stat whore who makes others around him worse, has a monster contract and is slow decline. GSW wins with two great guards. It’s rare. Guards don’t win chips alone. GSW season is being saved because Draymond resurgent this season. Back on task, R.J. is a great choice and if not for Zion we might be actually happier. He is not a finished product but has many refined attributes to be an allstar talent. So does Zion and Morant. Take away the contrast of those two and yes, the “Tank Worked”. We got a good asset!!!

Agree about Zion, not knowing for sure who pans out in drat and how ridiculous it is for Knick fans to have assumed we were getting the 1st pick with just 14% probability. Like that we will hopefully get Barrett unless Perry goes bat**** or Memphis wakes up. Top 3 was a big win specially taking into account what could have been.

As you know, disagree about Uncle Phil. The Knicks putting him in charge was Dolans biggest STARPHUCK.. Some keep avoiding the fact he was NEVER a Prez or GM in any of his chip seasons. Nor did he do it without the help of multiple top 10 of all timers. AS usual Dolan had NO foresight. Put in a guy that was antiquated and had NO experience to run the Knicks. Like I said. Happy to have that **** behind us. Looking forward to Perry adding a couple of pieces to make this team finally truly competitive and looking forward to seeing which one of our youngsters pan out. I like Knox, Frank, DSJR, Dotson, Mitch, Trier and hopefully RJ.
But as we know, if 20% of these guys become decent ball players, we are shooting par.

Yes, Its much better we are on a "Normal" trajectory of asset accumulation and while there are no clear ways to rebuild we do know that half ass fixes delay the process or get a team mired in mediocrity. Knicks doubled down and did what was needed to finally clean house. Mistakes will be made but all teams do. Make more decisions you create more opportunities also. Small wins like Mitch and Trier are evidence. Not enough to move the dial but things add up.

jamp wrote:We didn't tank, we just sucked.

There were several games that the team was in, down to the wire. Or games where the lead was blown. If situational substitutions replaced "positionless" basketball, those games might have ended differently. I indict the coaching staff. Hopefully, they give a better effort this year.

KnickDanger wrote:I think there were other aspects besides simply tanking that give me some hope going forward. We had three rookies with promise, sought to develop some players who could be lightning in a bottle types and maybe role players going forward (mixed results I know), played the younguns to a great extent, cleared cap space, and not only haven't traded future picks including this year's 3rd overall (yet), but also gained 2 future #1's from Dallas. And DSJ. That's more than just tanking.