HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Ecstatic if we get 1st, Happy if we get 2 or 3 (though would consider trading for AD), disappointed if we end up 4th, furious but not surprised if we end up 5th.

Like I've said a few times- golden rule seems to be, take the number of top players in a draft, and 1 and that's where the Knicks pick. So in this case it's a 3 man draft, so prepare for 4th at best.

it looks like a 4 man draft and we are likely 5th (time will tell)
1) Zion (duh)
2-4) Culver, Ja, RJ
5) hmmmmm.... I see considerable drop off

Im hoping it is either the #1 pick and Zion, unlikely, or they trade the 2 to 5 pick as part of a package to bring in AD. Or they trade the 2 to 5 pick for multiple lower ones. Dreaming that we get the #2 pick and Atlanta falls in love with Barrett and is dumb enough to give us the 5 and 6 pick. If that is possible. Cleveland, San Antonio and Boston also have a couple of first rounders. I like Darius Garland, kZ opala, Nikell Akexander Walker, Chuma Okeke, Luguentz dort as lower picks. Oh yeah and Dylan Windler (The next Kyle Korver or Ron Baker )

Btw, not sure Culver is top 4. Like Deandre Hunter or even Coby White to fill in the top 4. It seems like it happens every year where the hype of players still in the tourney jumps guys up the board but eventually subside by draft day. Also, dont know if JA should be number 2. Just cant go with someone that did not compete consistently against elite competition. I see him as the next Brandon Jennings. But who knows. Think RJ still has to be the second pick IMO.

trading the pick for AD would be the worst IMO. We can sign 2 max FAs. It will take more than just our #1 this year to get AD. Its gonna be KD and Kyrie. If we we are 2-3 and ATL has a hard on for RJ I would love to trade down and take their #5 and #6. Might have to give them a Dallas pick back but its something to look at.

Knicks need to not only sign a couple stars (I do think its KD+Kyrie as both have something to prove and both can prove it here together) but they need to draft well. If KD/KI sign we will end up getting some quality vets to sign for cheap because it will be great fun. What we really need a legit pipeline. A couple of blue chips in this draft would go a long way.

AD is great, but you gut your team and now cant afford to build a team around him.

Agree with most. Also feel Boston probably puts together the best package for AD. Doesn't hurt to dream that NO gets desperate and takes something like our first two picks this year plus some fillers for him. Would not call that gutting the team. Think KD, AD and Irving has finals potential.

Still keeping it real and realizing we have had the proverbial football pulled many times. So ready to accepr Kemba and Butler with a decent 5 pick and another pick with famous "Knick fan potential".

I would be shocked if the Knicks traded the pick, considering how young the team is at present. I think I would be more shocked if the Knicks sign UFAs in their 30s. I tend to think the guys we sign will only be a few years older than the rest of the roster.
- Tobias Harris, 26
- Spencer Dinwiddie, 25
- Julius Randle, 24

The more I think about it logically, the more I expect hearing that we signed players like that

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Ecstatic if we get 1st, Happy if we get 2 or 3 (though would consider trading for AD), disappointed if we end up 4th, furious but not surprised if we end up 5th.

Like I've said a few times- golden rule seems to be, take the number of top players in a draft, and 1 and that's where the Knicks pick. So in this case it's a 3 man draft, so prepare for 4th at best.

it looks like a 4 man draft and we are likely 5th (time will tell)
1) Zion (duh)
2-4) Culver, Ja, RJ
5) hmmmmm.... I see considerable drop off

Im hoping it is either the #1 pick and Zion, unlikely, or they trade the 2 to 5 pick as part of a package to bring in AD. Or they trade the 2 to 5 pick for multiple lower ones. Dreaming that we get the #2 pick and Atlanta falls in love with Barrett and is dumb enough to give us the 5 and 6 pick. If that is possible. Cleveland, San Antonio and Boston also have a couple of first rounders. I like Darius Garland, kZ opala, Nikell Akexander Walker, Chuma Okeke, Luguentz dort as lower picks. Oh yeah and Dylan Windler (The next Kyle Korver or Ron Baker )

Btw, not sure Culver is top 4. Like Deandre Hunter or even Coby White to fill in the top 4. It seems like it happens every year where the hype of players still in the tourney jumps guys up the board but eventually subside by draft day. Also, dont know if JA should be number 2. Just cant go with someone that did not compete consistently against elite competition. I see him as the next Brandon Jennings. But who knows. Think RJ still has to be the second pick IMO.

trading the pick for AD would be the worst IMO. We can sign 2 max FAs. It will take more than just our #1 this year to get AD. Its gonna be KD and Kyrie. If we we are 2-3 and ATL has a hard on for RJ I would love to trade down and take their #5 and #6. Might have to give them a Dallas pick back but its something to look at.

Knicks need to not only sign a couple stars (I do think its KD+Kyrie as both have something to prove and both can prove it here together) but they need to draft well. If KD/KI sign we will end up getting some quality vets to sign for cheap because it will be great fun. What we really need a legit pipeline. A couple of blue chips in this draft would go a long way.

AD is great, but you gut your team and now cant afford to build a team around him.

Agree with most. Also feel Boston probably puts together the best package for AD. Doesn't hurt to dream that NO gets desperate and takes something like our first two picks this year plus some fillers for him. Would not call that gutting the team. Think KD, AD and Irving has finals potential.

Still keeping it real and realizing we have had the proverbial football pulled many times. So ready to accepr Kemba and Butler with a decent 5 pick and another pick with famous "Knick fan potential".

Zion is the wildcard in all of this. He is already big time enough to get FAs interested in NY. Would rather not max out a PG. If we got Kemba, drafted Zion. Im guessing that with Mitch patrolling the paint, DSJr subbing Kemba. Not to mention the other recent draft picks who have shown something. That would be a team that can compete for talent. Last but not least, its NY.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We need a top 3 pick.

anything less, I'm trading the pick

Trading the pick requires a team willing to trade up and give value.

The same reason the Knicks feel underwhelmed at X pick slot is the same reason the non Knicks team would feel underwhelmed at X pick slot.

If there are a bunch of guys at 5 you think are sort of ****ty prospects, why wouldn't the non Knicks team think that?

Let's go back to some Mirror Test basics here - A trade that actually might work has to LOOK WIN/WIN TO BOTH SIDES GIVEN THE TIME AND PLACE.

"Just trade the pick!"

Given the cap, the tax line, salary matching requirements and small rosters, finding workable trades is very very hard in the NBA.

Knicks1248, you take insanely simple **** and find a way to try to make it overly hard as ****.

You then take things that are complex as all hell, then try to pass them off like buying a loaf of bread.

I know Cam Reddish stat’s the whole year is not great but I wonder if diving deep into smaller samples against certain opponents with and without Zion would be more telling.
Defense, assists, hockey assists, turnovers, clutch......I saw some things at times that was elite. His build is prototypical, very athletic.

His workouts will tell a lot. same for Barrett. Let’s be real, we don’t know what kind of team we are drafting for. One with KD and KI? Or more youthier going forward?

May 14th, I expect 5th. Odds say that. Anything more than that is a bonus. Nalod also thinks good things still ahead for Knox, frank and Mitch.

Top 3 is fine, obviously if we win the draft this team is set for the next decade and instantly becomes a contender. I just hope the Knicks don't foolishly give away Knox, Mitch, Smith, Frank, Trier, Dotson and a future pick for Davis.

You also have to be worried, because the Nets and Clippers have more stability in their organizations. Dolan, again proved what a deranged imbalanced ******* he is with the fan banning incident.

Speaks volumes when Balmer, West, Rivers walk into a room vs. the worst owner in spots, a questionable executive in Mills and two unknowns in Perry. Especially if you're dealing with expectations.

Zion cures all however.

MS wrote:I would not go near Reddish. He's attitude is questionable and when you have 2 of the top 5 players in college basketball on your team, you should never disappear, especially when your main strength is shooting.

Top 3 is fine, obviously if we win the draft this team is set for the next decade and instantly becomes a contender. I just hope the Knicks don't foolishly give away Knox, Mitch, Smith, Frank, Trier, Dotson and a future pick for Davis.

You also have to be worried, because the Nets and Clippers have more stability in their organizations. Dolan, again proved what a deranged imbalanced ******* he is with the fan banning incident.

Speaks volumes when Balmer, West, Rivers walk into a room vs. the worst owner in spots, a questionable executive in Mills and two unknowns in Perry. Especially if you're dealing with expectations.

Zion cures all however.

If Dolan forces an AD deal, as you just described. Hope that Perry/Mills go on record against the move. Dont want to hear from Mills down the road, if things go south. That its on Dolan.

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:I would not go near Reddish. He's attitude is questionable and when you have 2 of the top 5 players in college basketball on your team, you should never disappear, especially when your main strength is shooting.

Top 3 is fine, obviously if we win the draft this team is set for the next decade and instantly becomes a contender. I just hope the Knicks don't foolishly give away Knox, Mitch, Smith, Frank, Trier, Dotson and a future pick for Davis.

You also have to be worried, because the Nets and Clippers have more stability in their organizations. Dolan, again proved what a deranged imbalanced ******* he is with the fan banning incident.

Speaks volumes when Balmer, West, Rivers walk into a room vs. the worst owner in spots, a questionable executive in Mills and two unknowns in Perry. Especially if you're dealing with expectations.

Zion cures all however.

If Dolan forces an AD deal, as you just described. Hope that Perry/Mills go on record against the move. Dont want to hear from Mills down the road, if things go south. That its on Dolan.

Hopefully he learned from the 'Melo catastrophe. To have another fire sale for damaged goods would be unacceptable.

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:I would not go near Reddish. He's attitude is questionable and when you have 2 of the top 5 players in college basketball on your team, you should never disappear, especially when your main strength is shooting.

Top 3 is fine, obviously if we win the draft this team is set for the next decade and instantly becomes a contender. I just hope the Knicks don't foolishly give away Knox, Mitch, Smith, Frank, Trier, Dotson and a future pick for Davis.

You also have to be worried, because the Nets and Clippers have more stability in their organizations. Dolan, again proved what a deranged imbalanced ******* he is with the fan banning incident.

Speaks volumes when Balmer, West, Rivers walk into a room vs. the worst owner in spots, a questionable executive in Mills and two unknowns in Perry. Especially if you're dealing with expectations.

Zion cures all however.

If Dolan forces an AD deal, as you just described. Hope that Perry/Mills go on record against the move. Dont want to hear from Mills down the road, if things go south. That its on Dolan.

The only thing Dolan did in that deal was hand over Mosgov...Any deal for AD Require will require (knox, Mitch, frank 2018 pick,another 1st round pick dotson) basically every young guy on the roster.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:I would not go near Reddish. He's attitude is questionable and when you have 2 of the top 5 players in college basketball on your team, you should never disappear, especially when your main strength is shooting.

Top 3 is fine, obviously if we win the draft this team is set for the next decade and instantly becomes a contender. I just hope the Knicks don't foolishly give away Knox, Mitch, Smith, Frank, Trier, Dotson and a future pick for Davis.

You also have to be worried, because the Nets and Clippers have more stability in their organizations. Dolan, again proved what a deranged imbalanced ******* he is with the fan banning incident.

Speaks volumes when Balmer, West, Rivers walk into a room vs. the worst owner in spots, a questionable executive in Mills and two unknowns in Perry. Especially if you're dealing with expectations.

Zion cures all however.

If Dolan forces an AD deal, as you just described. Hope that Perry/Mills go on record against the move. Dont want to hear from Mills down the road, if things go south. That its on Dolan.

The only thing Dolan did in that deal was hand over Mosgov...Any deal for AD Require will require (knox, Mitch, frank 2018 pick,another 1st round pick dotson) basically every young guy on the roster.

The only thing? No, the dumbest thing Dolan did to handcuff his own negotiator was to tell him he couldn't fold... and the other side knew it. And they weren't playing Friday night have some beer and chips with the guys poker, this was cut throat. And when it's cut throat, you keep raising when you have a straight flush and know your opponent is holding a pair of Dolans. Mosgov was the last raise to empty Walsh's pile

Yeah i don't disagree with you here, but I think the whole trying to build a big 3(like miami had just done) and the possibility of losing him to the NETS also played key role into him folding

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:I would not go near Reddish. He's attitude is questionable and when you have 2 of the top 5 players in college basketball on your team, you should never disappear, especially when your main strength is shooting.

Top 3 is fine, obviously if we win the draft this team is set for the next decade and instantly becomes a contender. I just hope the Knicks don't foolishly give away Knox, Mitch, Smith, Frank, Trier, Dotson and a future pick for Davis.

You also have to be worried, because the Nets and Clippers have more stability in their organizations. Dolan, again proved what a deranged imbalanced ******* he is with the fan banning incident.

Speaks volumes when Balmer, West, Rivers walk into a room vs. the worst owner in spots, a questionable executive in Mills and two unknowns in Perry. Especially if you're dealing with expectations.

Zion cures all however.

If Dolan forces an AD deal, as you just described. Hope that Perry/Mills go on record against the move. Dont want to hear from Mills down the road, if things go south. That its on Dolan.

The only thing Dolan did in that deal was hand over Mosgov...Any deal for AD Require will require (knox, Mitch, frank 2018 pick,another 1st round pick dotson) basically every young guy on the roster.

The only thing? No, the dumbest thing Dolan did to handcuff his own negotiator was to tell him he couldn't fold... and the other side knew it. And they weren't playing Friday night have some beer and chips with the guys poker, this was cut throat. And when it's cut throat, you keep raising when you have a straight flush and know your opponent is holding a pair of Dolans. Mosgov was the last raise to empty Walsh's pile

Yeah i don't disagree with you here, but I think the whole trying to build a big 3(like miami had just done) and the possibility of losing him to the NETS also played key role into him folding

Naturally its assumed we trade for a lessor price Deron Williams but that's really speculation.
Bottom line 1248 was it really worth one 54 win starphuch gassed by second round season to put the team on its back as it played out?
Not that Gallo and Wilson were the backbone of a championship season but look at Denver who had a 57 win season and while they have not exactly been great, and despite drafting Mudiay, they finished this year with the 4th best record in the league are young and on the upside.
We finished last.
Its not fair to compare both teams as the circumstances are widely different but somehow Denver used our assets on the court and in trades and thus drafted pretty well even with its misses. Jokic was a trade that worked because of the system and chemistry. Luck? No, opportunities.
Dolan got his star but removed opportunities. The Chris Smith "debacle" was because he HAD to get JR here and keep him. JR had great talent but we committed to HOF bone head.
And if you have to walk away from the table you do so. Dolan was more afraid of the NEts than what was good for the team.