Posted by joec32033:

I don't know if I would automatically assume it would get worse if he comes to NY or goes anywhere else. We have some things in our favor, we are his hometown, for one thing. Granted he may have more pressure and get worse, or maybe he gets more comfortable here and he will get better. His support structure in his personal life is based here, not Indy. Unlike Indy, 29 other teams in the league didn't screw with this guy and his teammates (like Bird did, basically lying to JO'Neal). I think he doesn't like being in Indy.

He's a heatable guy. That's who he is he reminds me more of Oak than Rodman. Rodman did these things for publicity, hands down. Oak was just not the smartest player all the time. Artest has alot more talent than Oak did, but he has his same mental make-up.

Who is assuming it would get worse if he came to NY? I know didnt.You wrote that you thought that he had gotten worse since he came to Indy and I agreed with you,he doesnt need to get any worse to be a problem in NY.

Oak does not have the same "mental makeup" as Artest.He was alot smarter than him on the court.Enough to know when not to pick up a really cheap foul in the deciding game of the playoffs like Artest did last season.

Rodman loved publicity but he also had serious emotional problems,even his family have said as much to the media.

As far as Artest calming down if he played in NY,he trashed a 100k camera at the garden because the game was so important to him.We dont know if he wouldnt do the same thing if he messed up in an important game as a Knick.Id rather see if TT can do the job before the Knicks start trying to aquire an emotionally disturbed player who happens to be from NY.

Posted by Kwazimodal:

Posted by joec32033:

I don't know if I would automatically assume it would get worse if he comes to NY or goes anywhere else. We have some things in our favor, we are his hometown, for one thing. Granted he may have more pressure and get worse, or maybe he gets more comfortable here and he will get better. His support structure in his personal life is based here, not Indy. Unlike Indy, 29 other teams in the league didn't screw with this guy and his teammates (like Bird did, basically lying to JO'Neal). I think he doesn't like being in Indy.

He's a heatable guy. That's who he is he reminds me more of Oak than Rodman. Rodman did these things for publicity, hands down. Oak was just not the smartest player all the time. Artest has alot more talent than Oak did, but he has his same mental make-up.

Who is assuming it would get worse if he came to NY? I know didnt.You wrote that you thought that he had gotten worse since he came to Indy and I agreed with you,he doesnt need to get any worse to be a problem in NY.

Oak does not have the same "mental makeup" as Artest.He was alot smarter than him on the court.Enough to know when not to pick up a really cheap foul in the deciding game of the playoffs like Artest did last season.

Rodman loved publicity but he also had serious emotional problems,even his family have said as much to the media.

As far as Artest calming down if he played in NY,he trashed a 100k camera at the garden because the game was so important to him.We dont know if he wouldnt do the same thing if he messed up in an important game as a Knick.Id rather see if TT can do the job before the Knicks start trying to aquire an emotionally disturbed player who happens to be from NY.

I agree Joe,thats what worries me about him.If anything he is getting worse.

You said "...if anything he is getting worse." I took that as an assumption as you thought he was getting worse. My mistake if you didn't.

By mental make up I meant he is a hardnosed player and defender. Oak said what was on his mind and didn't care much who he called out or hurt in the process. Artest does the same things. Oak also had many brain farts that I can remember. How many times was he at the top of the key, waiting for someone to pass to and he throws that wrap around behind the back pass that ends up into the stands? The man never realized he couldn't throw a good behind the back pass, especially when a normal pass was sufficient. That is what I mean by mental makeup. They both approach the game with the same mentality and don't care what they say. Artest is a little crazier than Oak, but how many things have we not heard that Oak has done? Remember when the Knicks played the Clips and it was brought up somewhere Oak slapped Jeff McInnis because he owed him money?

Oak was not the most together person in the world.

As far as coming to NY and calming down, I just gave reasons why it can happen. I never said it would happen,. I just gave, wghat in my opinion, was strong supporting evidence that it wa possible he would calm down if he came here.

I agree, I want to see if TT is motivated also, because he can be a beast here if he is. I hope he is, but his history, in which he has had several events that could have motivated him but didn't, speaks for itself., and if we can get a Artest caliber player for a deal including TT, I pull the trigger now.

Fair enough.To clear things up I said "he was getting worse" since he arrived at Indy agreeing with your point,which he had.

Cool. That I agree with agreeing with...

Yes,Oak had lots of brain farts,Id love that expression he would make when he would get called for a foul like he didnt do anything wrong even though he knocked some guy into the fourth row.But I dont remember him costing the Knicks as many games with technical fouls,or the way Artest did in last year's playoffs.Brain farts aside he also had great court awareness that I dont believe Artest has,not yet anyway.

Oak may not have been the main reason we lost games, and his mistake smay not have been huge (like going "Artest"), but he had many key stupid plays at the worst times. Which is what cost us games.

They both have a "thuggish"quality to them to put it not so nicely which can be useful to a point but I believe Artest leans more towards mental illness than just being a tough guy in my unprofessional opinion.His wild mood swings are one tipoff.But I get now that you were talking more about his playing style(I think)

That is exactly what I meant. Kenyon Martin was almost exactly like Artest in the thuggishness department a couple years ago. Oak, as you said was a tough guy but sometimes his fouls and actions were a little excessive, I have to admit that. I just think Oak knew he could get away with it, too. If you plugged Artest in to those mid to early 90's teams, as someone said before, Artests fouling wouldn't be an Issue, IMO. It is a finesse league now.

It was Tyrone Hill he slapped for money,it was Mcinnis he slapped at a shootaround because..hell if I know.He was a bad mother.. no doubt about it.

Maybe he smaked around McInnis about a chick....who knows. I remember this hppened in a fairly short amount of time so it was like every time you turned around Oak was **tch slapping someone.

If he were to come here I would hope that Isiah puts in his contract that he has to see a psychiatrist regularly and take medictaion if he doesnt already.I know he was required to have anger management counseling at indy but I believe it goes deeper than that.

Yes Artest could be a beast but with 4 more years on his contract,I doubt even Isiah could move him if he had more meltdowns in NY and in the meantime he could really hurt team chemistry.

I would have no problems with Zeke trying to cover his. I do think that if we have problems with Artest, we will be able to move him....maybe not for totally equal value but close, only because he has so much talent and there will be teams out there that think he will fit into their system better and maybe enjoy the lifestyle of the location of the team.