Posted by Marv:

Posted by TMS:

i just don't see them trading Artest unless they're getting back a young, stud player or an established veteran star...Tim Thomas & Kurt Thomas aren't in that league...these guys are 3rd & 4th option type players on any decent team...to trade a guy like Artest, you need to get back equal value in terms of talent imho...you can't trade him to get cap relief & take back lesser talent.

[Edited by - TMS on 09/23/2004 10:30:56]

Everything you're saying makes sense EXCEPT . . . if they've made a decision that they just can't have him on the team anymore and have to have him off their roster. Seems like if that were the case they would have moved on this earlier, doesn't it? But maybe he's blown off more management meetings or something else has emerged. Who knows? I'm also not convinced he's worth all the headaches he could bring.

Posted by TMS:

i just don't see them trading Artest unless they're getting back a young, stud player or an established veteran star...Tim Thomas & Kurt Thomas aren't in that league...these guys are 3rd & 4th option type players on any decent team...to trade a guy like Artest, you need to get back equal value in terms of talent imho...you can't trade him to get cap relief & take back lesser talent.

[Edited by - TMS on 09/23/2004 10:30:56]

Posted by TMS:

you're right, but i think they can get a much better offer, that's all i'm saying.

Posted by KNICKSdom:

Posted by Nalod:

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by bernard:

How many rings does Rodman have? Artest keeps reminding me of him.

Guy clearly is more than a bit loopy. But if you surround him with the right people (of course it'd be nice to surround him w/ MJ's Bulls' talent, but am referring here to his leadership), you can get the value out of a player like that. Guy like Artest cannot be a team's leader. There needs to be someone else who can rein him in a little, and, more important, keep everyone else focused when he inevitably goes off the deep end.

I don't think the Knicks have that guy today. Maybe Marbs will become him. In fact, too few teams have leaders like that nowadays.

This is exactly right. Players like Artest and Rasheed need to play under a real leader. My favorite team off all time, the 1996 Knicks would have been a perfect team to plug Artest in.

What team will Artest fit well in now?

Rodman was always a great soldier when he was focused.

Ron Ron is a great talent, but the fact remains Indiana might never get any further with him in the lineup. Despite his great talent.

So that talent is really a non facter if he cannot apply it when it matters. Thus, Artest is really both soft (mentally) and in the clutch, cannot be relied on at all. He has no place on a team striving for more.

This is why so many players whom are great talent never make it in the NBA, they crack. Either they can't control their personal lives and it spills over into their professional life. Its like a talented surgeon, if under pressure he cracks, hes really not a great surgeon no matter how well he did in school or knows his medicine.

Conclusion: Ron Artest is a great basketball player, but not a good NBA professional basketball player.

That last quote made me come to a conclusion: Ron Artest as we know him is having a "Rasheed" moment with Indiana. Thus a change of scenery would actually rejuvenate him. Just put him out of his misery and bring him to NY. I know I wanted 'Sheed traded to NY but that didn't happen.

Posted by Kwazimodal:

Posted by joec32033:



Artest wasn't this way on the Bulls but he is on the Pacers (maybe he is bored in Indiana as it is as far away from "city life" as you can get. I know it's a stretch, but it is something.

Thats not true.He was exhibiting the same type of behavior in chicago it just didnt get as much press.

I remember him being pretty good on the Bulls and there being so few problems that Indy gave up alot to get him (Indy traded Jalen Rose and Ron Mercer at the time to get him and Brad Miller).

[Edited by - joec32033 on 09/24/2004 09:54:07]

Posted by Kwazimodal:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by Kwazimodal:

Posted by joec32033:



Artest wasn't this way on the Bulls but he is on the Pacers (maybe he is bored in Indiana as it is as far away from "city life" as you can get. I know it's a stretch, but it is something.

Thats not true.He was exhibiting the same type of behavior in chicago it just didnt get as much press.

I remember him being pretty good on the Bulls and there being so few problems that Indy gave up alot to get him (Indy traded Jalen Rose and Ron Mercer at the time to get him and Brad Miller).

[Edited by - joec32033 on 09/24/2004 09:54:07]

Brad Miller was no throwaway in that deal,he was putting up very good numbers in limited minutes.As far as Artest not being volatile with the Bulls check out this article.Indy may not have known what they were getting into which surprises me because I remember stories about him back then.

http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/smith_sam/1466956.html

"So the Bulls are being blown out again, and Artest wasn't a player who took it as easily as many of his teammates. It's actually the trait that makes Artest the player he is, but also drives him to some of his actions that frighten teammates.

They were frightened that halftime as Artest stood about eight feet from the wall of the visitors' locker room. There was a bench for the players to sit on and a wall behind. Artest stood erect, his face a mask of anger with the piercing, hateful look of someone seeking revenge. It became sort of a dodge ball game, though Artest's teammates were afraid to move. Artest wound up like Bob Gibson and hurled the ball full speed against the wall, about four inches over the heads of his teammates. Again and again, catching the ball, whipping it back. Thump, thump, thump. No one said anything. It went on throughout the entire halftime.

The Bulls called them "Artest moments."

They usually happened on the basketball court. It's like a switch is flipped when the game ends. Off the court, Artest has the sweet disposition of an innocent child. His smile melts you, and if his grammar isn't always appropriate, he is easily forgiven. I remember the Bulls once without a point guard and Artest asked to play there. Trying to learn the position in that game, he ended up shooting 0-for-17. He couldn't have been gentler after the game, apologizing and saying he'd tried the best he could.

Mostly, though, there have been rages. He tried to go into to the stands once to get a heckling fan in Indiana when he was with the Bulls. And he tried it even after he was traded to the Pacers in Indianapolis when he misunderstood what a fan had said. Once in a practice with the Bulls, he became so frustrated he tried to pick up a weight machine that weighed a thousand pounds. And he actually moved it. The story they tell at the gym where Michael Jordan suffered broken ribs last year with Artest guarding him was that Jordan was taunting Artest about having so little money compared to him. Artest is quite generous, probably too much so for his own good."


Like I said,TT wants to put last season behind him and as much as I hated what he did I think he deserves a chance at redemption and Artest could wreck the chemistry that this team is building.Im not saying they should never consider a trade involving Artest,just not at this point.

I vaguely remember those incidents, I guess he has always been like that, but he never called out Chicago management like he did with IT, Brewer....He has taken it to another level in Indy, IMO.