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Dotson in year 2
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BigDaddyG
Posts: 37559
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Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

3/20/2019  5:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/20/2019  5:50 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nice year over year development by this kid and our staff.
Mudiay also.
If the Knicks missed on Frank, we got Dotson, Mitch and trier as back filling value.
Whats different in the current scenario? Knicks in two years giving lots of young guys time on the court.
Opportunity. Some will thrived, some did not.
crazy as it sounds but Mario from the start of the season to the end has made progress on off the ball play.
Not sure I want to pay him but if his free agent value goes up and he leaves its a good look for the knicks.
Games are bloody awful to watch. The Toronto game was abysmal. Laker game not so.
Trier and Dotson are good values for on court or trade. Frank puts up some good play we can add him.
Its going to be an interesting summer.

For me, Mario has had a good game or 2 this whole season.

Off the ball progress is hard to quantify. If you block Lebrons shot at the buzzer, that's pretty obvious. Im just seeing less bone head blank defense staring in to space.
I said less, not eliminated!

Mario would look awesome if we had KD & some other big name.

But, not if he is looking to get paid $8m, because he hasn't been that good - I like him but the best I can say is he's been decent to below average with very few flashes of better than blah.

To me, there is value in continuity - keeping Mario, Mudiay and adding a top 3 pick and KD would be a great off season and give me something to look forward to next season.

what do you like about Mario? I can't find 1 thing about him that he does well or points to doing well.

That end-year run must have been pretty good last season for him to be getting looks at $6+M per last summer.

Can't shoot or score consistently, defense looks awful.


I'd bring Mario back on a vet's minimum for this play alone. Does he suck? Yeah, no doubt. But the man is responsible for two of the biggest highlight plays of this season. That's enough for an end of the bench role in my honest opinion.

I don't think he sucks, he definitely has talent, I just think he needs to play around High IQ players, who play winning basketball.

Agreed


Didn't say he didn't have talent. But he's never put it together for a stretch that is substantial enough to be recognized as an NBA player. The overall results paint the picture of a guy who sucks.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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BigDaddyG
Posts: 37559
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Joined: 1/22/2010
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3/20/2019  5:51 PM
technomaster wrote:In the pre-game show of the next game, Wally & Alan Hahn were talking about this and showing a replay of Hezonja's block on Lebron. Jordan pushed him in the back to put him into position to make the block. (Hezonja technically did the right thing by jumping straight up)

Pretty great. And great instincts by Jordan. (SKIP to the 50 second mark where you can see the push)

Any time you have an opportunity to inflict a crushing defeat on another team's superstar player (especially someone like Lebron) is a moment to be celebrated.

Yep. Look at how long Roy Hibbert lived off that Melo block in the playoffs lol

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
Posts: 68680
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3/20/2019  6:24 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nice year over year development by this kid and our staff.
Mudiay also.
If the Knicks missed on Frank, we got Dotson, Mitch and trier as back filling value.
Whats different in the current scenario? Knicks in two years giving lots of young guys time on the court.
Opportunity. Some will thrived, some did not.
crazy as it sounds but Mario from the start of the season to the end has made progress on off the ball play.
Not sure I want to pay him but if his free agent value goes up and he leaves its a good look for the knicks.
Games are bloody awful to watch. The Toronto game was abysmal. Laker game not so.
Trier and Dotson are good values for on court or trade. Frank puts up some good play we can add him.
Its going to be an interesting summer.

For me, Mario has had a good game or 2 this whole season.

Off the ball progress is hard to quantify. If you block Lebrons shot at the buzzer, that's pretty obvious. Im just seeing less bone head blank defense staring in to space.
I said less, not eliminated!

Mario would look awesome if we had KD & some other big name.

But, not if he is looking to get paid $8m, because he hasn't been that good - I like him but the best I can say is he's been decent to below average with very few flashes of better than blah.

To me, there is value in continuity - keeping Mario, Mudiay and adding a top 3 pick and KD would be a great off season and give me something to look forward to next season.

what do you like about Mario? I can't find 1 thing about him that he does well or points to doing well.

That end-year run must have been pretty good last season for him to be getting looks at $6+M per last summer.

Can't shoot or score consistently, defense looks awful.


I'd bring Mario back on a vet's minimum for this play alone. Does he suck? Yeah, no doubt. But the man is responsible for two of the biggest highlight plays of this season. That's enough for an end of the bench role in my honest opinion.

I don't think he sucks, he definitely has talent, I just think he needs to play around High IQ players, who play winning basketball.

His talent hasn't done anything in 4 years. What about his talent does he have that points to an inkling of doing good things? What exactly do you see?

And your statement about playing around high IQ players who play winning basketball is as generic as can be. You can pretty much say that about every player.

Time to put some adult pants on and actually post something that has some insight in it.

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franco12
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3/20/2019  7:48 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nice year over year development by this kid and our staff.
Mudiay also.
If the Knicks missed on Frank, we got Dotson, Mitch and trier as back filling value.
Whats different in the current scenario? Knicks in two years giving lots of young guys time on the court.
Opportunity. Some will thrived, some did not.
crazy as it sounds but Mario from the start of the season to the end has made progress on off the ball play.
Not sure I want to pay him but if his free agent value goes up and he leaves its a good look for the knicks.
Games are bloody awful to watch. The Toronto game was abysmal. Laker game not so.
Trier and Dotson are good values for on court or trade. Frank puts up some good play we can add him.
Its going to be an interesting summer.

For me, Mario has had a good game or 2 this whole season.

Off the ball progress is hard to quantify. If you block Lebrons shot at the buzzer, that's pretty obvious. Im just seeing less bone head blank defense staring in to space.
I said less, not eliminated!

Mario would look awesome if we had KD & some other big name.

But, not if he is looking to get paid $8m, because he hasn't been that good - I like him but the best I can say is he's been decent to below average with very few flashes of better than blah.

To me, there is value in continuity - keeping Mario, Mudiay and adding a top 3 pick and KD would be a great off season and give me something to look forward to next season.

what do you like about Mario? I can't find 1 thing about him that he does well or points to doing well.

That end-year run must have been pretty good last season for him to be getting looks at $6+M per last summer.

Can't shoot or score consistently, defense looks awful.


I'd bring Mario back on a vet's minimum for this play alone. Does he suck? Yeah, no doubt. But the man is responsible for two of the biggest highlight plays of this season. That's enough for an end of the bench role in my honest opinion.

I don't think he sucks, he definitely has talent, I just think he needs to play around High IQ players, who play winning basketball.

His talent hasn't done anything in 4 years. What about his talent does he have that points to an inkling of doing good things? What exactly do you see?

And your statement about playing around high IQ players who play winning basketball is as generic as can be. You can pretty much say that about every player.

Time to put some adult pants on and actually post something that has some insight in it.

I think he could be a nice role player - smart enough to fill a role. He's not a stand out talent. He's not someone you build around.

Look - my opinion - maybe shared by others. I certainly don't pay him $8m. If I could give him 3/4 years at $4/5M per, last year an option - I might because I could eat the deal if I had to.

KD can't play 240 minutes.

martin
Posts: 68680
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Member: #2
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3/20/2019  8:05 PM
franco12 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nice year over year development by this kid and our staff.
Mudiay also.
If the Knicks missed on Frank, we got Dotson, Mitch and trier as back filling value.
Whats different in the current scenario? Knicks in two years giving lots of young guys time on the court.
Opportunity. Some will thrived, some did not.
crazy as it sounds but Mario from the start of the season to the end has made progress on off the ball play.
Not sure I want to pay him but if his free agent value goes up and he leaves its a good look for the knicks.
Games are bloody awful to watch. The Toronto game was abysmal. Laker game not so.
Trier and Dotson are good values for on court or trade. Frank puts up some good play we can add him.
Its going to be an interesting summer.

For me, Mario has had a good game or 2 this whole season.

Off the ball progress is hard to quantify. If you block Lebrons shot at the buzzer, that's pretty obvious. Im just seeing less bone head blank defense staring in to space.
I said less, not eliminated!

Mario would look awesome if we had KD & some other big name.

But, not if he is looking to get paid $8m, because he hasn't been that good - I like him but the best I can say is he's been decent to below average with very few flashes of better than blah.

To me, there is value in continuity - keeping Mario, Mudiay and adding a top 3 pick and KD would be a great off season and give me something to look forward to next season.

what do you like about Mario? I can't find 1 thing about him that he does well or points to doing well.

That end-year run must have been pretty good last season for him to be getting looks at $6+M per last summer.

Can't shoot or score consistently, defense looks awful.


I'd bring Mario back on a vet's minimum for this play alone. Does he suck? Yeah, no doubt. But the man is responsible for two of the biggest highlight plays of this season. That's enough for an end of the bench role in my honest opinion.

I don't think he sucks, he definitely has talent, I just think he needs to play around High IQ players, who play winning basketball.

His talent hasn't done anything in 4 years. What about his talent does he have that points to an inkling of doing good things? What exactly do you see?

And your statement about playing around high IQ players who play winning basketball is as generic as can be. You can pretty much say that about every player.

Time to put some adult pants on and actually post something that has some insight in it.

I think he could be a nice role player - smart enough to fill a role. He's not a stand out talent. He's not someone you build around.

Look - my opinion - maybe shared by others. I certainly don't pay him $8m. If I could give him 3/4 years at $4/5M per, last year an option - I might because I could eat the deal if I had to.

KD can't play 240 minutes.

What role? Defender? Floor spacer? Facilitator? Just there to eat minutes that another player doesn't play?

What has Mario done to earn a multi year deal?

This is not a trick question. Point to something that you feel Mario is good at or could be good at. What role?

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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
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Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

3/20/2019  8:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/20/2019  8:48 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

martin
Posts: 68680
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3/20/2019  10:01 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
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3/20/2019  10:09 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

Cartman718
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3/20/2019  10:19 PM
FO better not trade WholeTeamDot
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
martin
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3/20/2019  10:33 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

There is plenty of context to this. To say that Frank will never have a shot or have that edge in his first year and come to a full conclusion, then yeah, hasty is appropriate. Don't think I would have used hasty otherwise.

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CrushAlot
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3/20/2019  10:53 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

There is plenty of context to this. To say that Frank will never have a shot or have that edge in his first year and come to a full conclusion, then yeah, hasty is appropriate. Don't think I would have used hasty otherwise.


There was a lot of push back on anyone critical of Frank.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Jmpasq
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3/21/2019  5:09 AM
franco12 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nice year over year development by this kid and our staff.
Mudiay also.
If the Knicks missed on Frank, we got Dotson, Mitch and trier as back filling value.
Whats different in the current scenario? Knicks in two years giving lots of young guys time on the court.
Opportunity. Some will thrived, some did not.
crazy as it sounds but Mario from the start of the season to the end has made progress on off the ball play.
Not sure I want to pay him but if his free agent value goes up and he leaves its a good look for the knicks.
Games are bloody awful to watch. The Toronto game was abysmal. Laker game not so.
Trier and Dotson are good values for on court or trade. Frank puts up some good play we can add him.
Its going to be an interesting summer.

For me, Mario has had a good game or 2 this whole season.

Off the ball progress is hard to quantify. If you block Lebrons shot at the buzzer, that's pretty obvious. Im just seeing less bone head blank defense staring in to space.
I said less, not eliminated!

Mario would look awesome if we had KD & some other big name.

But, not if he is looking to get paid $8m, because he hasn't been that good - I like him but the best I can say is he's been decent to below average with very few flashes of better than blah.

To me, there is value in continuity - keeping Mario, Mudiay and adding a top 3 pick and KD would be a great off season and give me something to look forward to next season.

what do you like about Mario? I can't find 1 thing about him that he does well or points to doing well.

That end-year run must have been pretty good last season for him to be getting looks at $6+M per last summer.

Can't shoot or score consistently, defense looks awful.


I'd bring Mario back on a vet's minimum for this play alone. Does he suck? Yeah, no doubt. But the man is responsible for two of the biggest highlight plays of this season. That's enough for an end of the bench role in my honest opinion.

I don't think he sucks, he definitely has talent, I just think he needs to play around High IQ players, who play winning basketball.

His talent hasn't done anything in 4 years. What about his talent does he have that points to an inkling of doing good things? What exactly do you see?

And your statement about playing around high IQ players who play winning basketball is as generic as can be. You can pretty much say that about every player.

Time to put some adult pants on and actually post something that has some insight in it.

I think he could be a nice role player - smart enough to fill a role. He's not a stand out talent. He's not someone you build around.

Look - my opinion - maybe shared by others. I certainly don't pay him $8m. If I could give him 3/4 years at $4/5M per, last year an option - I might because I could eat the deal if I had to.

KD can't play 240 minutes.

if we sign 2 stars we might be able to sign 1 player to a 5 million dollar deal. You want to sign Mario? Dude is awful

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Jmpasq
Posts: 25243
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Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

3/21/2019  5:12 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

There is plenty of context to this. To say that Frank will never have a shot or have that edge in his first year and come to a full conclusion, then yeah, hasty is appropriate. Don't think I would have used hasty otherwise.


There was a lot of push back on anyone critical of Frank.

People will still be saying he is young when he is 27 playing in Europe
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Nalod
Posts: 68683
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USA
3/21/2019  6:37 AM
Does Franks stoic demeanor on offense appear to show a lack of urgency?
He is the same way on defense which he excels at. He is not demonstrative after a defenseive stop.
Neither was Clyde.
Of course he is not Clyde. But at age 20 Clyde was still Walt and still two years before his breakout performance in the NIT. Young players get passes but as they get older the odds of success does drop. BUt it does not get eliminated.
Dotson Will be 25 years old in May. Age does factor in the conversation. Trier is 22.
Mario came here with the understanding he would be held to take on his off ball play.
This team is awful. We are forced to look at the pieces instead of the collective which has only produced 14 wins.
franco12
Posts: 33195
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Member: #599
USA
3/21/2019  7:33 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
franco12 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nice year over year development by this kid and our staff.
Mudiay also.
If the Knicks missed on Frank, we got Dotson, Mitch and trier as back filling value.
Whats different in the current scenario? Knicks in two years giving lots of young guys time on the court.
Opportunity. Some will thrived, some did not.
crazy as it sounds but Mario from the start of the season to the end has made progress on off the ball play.
Not sure I want to pay him but if his free agent value goes up and he leaves its a good look for the knicks.
Games are bloody awful to watch. The Toronto game was abysmal. Laker game not so.
Trier and Dotson are good values for on court or trade. Frank puts up some good play we can add him.
Its going to be an interesting summer.

For me, Mario has had a good game or 2 this whole season.

Off the ball progress is hard to quantify. If you block Lebrons shot at the buzzer, that's pretty obvious. Im just seeing less bone head blank defense staring in to space.
I said less, not eliminated!

Mario would look awesome if we had KD & some other big name.

But, not if he is looking to get paid $8m, because he hasn't been that good - I like him but the best I can say is he's been decent to below average with very few flashes of better than blah.

To me, there is value in continuity - keeping Mario, Mudiay and adding a top 3 pick and KD would be a great off season and give me something to look forward to next season.

what do you like about Mario? I can't find 1 thing about him that he does well or points to doing well.

That end-year run must have been pretty good last season for him to be getting looks at $6+M per last summer.

Can't shoot or score consistently, defense looks awful.


I'd bring Mario back on a vet's minimum for this play alone. Does he suck? Yeah, no doubt. But the man is responsible for two of the biggest highlight plays of this season. That's enough for an end of the bench role in my honest opinion.

I don't think he sucks, he definitely has talent, I just think he needs to play around High IQ players, who play winning basketball.

His talent hasn't done anything in 4 years. What about his talent does he have that points to an inkling of doing good things? What exactly do you see?

And your statement about playing around high IQ players who play winning basketball is as generic as can be. You can pretty much say that about every player.

Time to put some adult pants on and actually post something that has some insight in it.

I think he could be a nice role player - smart enough to fill a role. He's not a stand out talent. He's not someone you build around.

Look - my opinion - maybe shared by others. I certainly don't pay him $8m. If I could give him 3/4 years at $4/5M per, last year an option - I might because I could eat the deal if I had to.

KD can't play 240 minutes.

if we sign 2 stars we might be able to sign 1 player to a 5 million dollar deal. You want to sign Mario? Dude is awful

I don't want to sign two stars. I'm not even sure I want to sign one.

We need talent, that's indisputable. but we need depth and we need to develop continuity.

If we can add KD, I'd love to bring back pretty much everyone we have on the roster. We've been in games all year- we just needed someone to help us weather the storm. Someone who could get the big bucket, someone to lead, to let the other players know - hey, I got this, we got this.

In a perfect world, we land Zion and right there, are instantly transformed. Hopefully, we land a top 3 impact player and a super star this off season. And bring pretty much everyone back and take a huge step in year 2, with guys like DSjr figuring things out, developing a better, more reliable shot.

I think if the FO signs 2 max guys, dumps everyone not tied down, and fills out with vet min throwaway guys, we are going to be in for a very rude awakening.

newyorknewyork
Posts: 29863
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3/21/2019  8:13 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/21/2019  8:14 AM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

There is plenty of context to this. To say that Frank will never have a shot or have that edge in his first year and come to a full conclusion, then yeah, hasty is appropriate. Don't think I would have used hasty otherwise.

Gustav wanted to see it by yr 2 before the Knicks look to move one. While I among others said we should wait until the end of his rookie contract. I prefer us show that we can start to develop kids. Over expecting them to have to come out the gate hot every time we draft or they get dumped. That hasn't work for the last 20yrs.

But I think Frank is traded in the summer.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
newyorknewyork
Posts: 29863
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
3/21/2019  8:18 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

There is plenty of context to this. To say that Frank will never have a shot or have that edge in his first year and come to a full conclusion, then yeah, hasty is appropriate. Don't think I would have used hasty otherwise.


There was a lot of push back on anyone critical of Frank.

Knox rookie year has already exposed the hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to Franks rookie year. He offered plenty to be critical about for majority of it.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
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Member: #3186

3/21/2019  8:42 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

There is plenty of context to this. To say that Frank will never have a shot or have that edge in his first year and come to a full conclusion, then yeah, hasty is appropriate. Don't think I would have used hasty otherwise.


There was a lot of push back on anyone critical of Frank.

Knox rookie year has already exposed the hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to Franks rookie year. He offered plenty to be critical about for majority of it.

Not really. Knox has been starting, and playing a good deal more minutes. He's playing against starters, the best, and still managed to be named rookie of the month, before he hit the wall, so to speak.

Knox's path has been tougher. They both have had up and down rookie seasons. Have seen more to build with in Knox's game. Believe Knox's sophomore year will be better than Frank's in part because he has shown himself to be a more aggressive player.

newyorknewyork
Posts: 29863
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
3/21/2019  9:42 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

There is plenty of context to this. To say that Frank will never have a shot or have that edge in his first year and come to a full conclusion, then yeah, hasty is appropriate. Don't think I would have used hasty otherwise.


There was a lot of push back on anyone critical of Frank.

Knox rookie year has already exposed the hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to Franks rookie year. He offered plenty to be critical about for majority of it.

Not really. Knox has been starting, and playing a good deal more minutes. He's playing against starters, the best, and still managed to be named rookie of the month, before he hit the wall, so to speak.

Knox's path has been tougher. They both have had up and down rookie seasons. Have seen more to build with in Knox's game. Believe Knox's sophomore year will be better than Frank's in part because he has shown himself to be a more aggressive player.

Knox at the moment isn't an effective player in any area of basketball. Not as a scorer, rebounder, playmaker, shooter, defender. With concerns that he may not have the lateral quickness and agility to effectively guard the perimeter. And may need to focus on getting stronger and holding down the stretch PF spot as he ages.

The fact that he won rookie of the months shows how poor the majority of his season has gone with the level of drop off. There is clear reason for it though given his age and need for physical development and conditioning.

The only reason for the lower level of critic despite the same lack of effectiveness(and arguably even less) is *preference*. He isn't held to the same standards set only due to preference not actual effectiveness.

You, Crush and a few others bring up G league a lot for development. Yet when Knox was having months long stretches of funk. Why was there no belief or mention of the G league to build Knox back up?

Just an example of the changeup in mindset. And again not due to actual effectiveness, but preference.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

3/21/2019  10:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/21/2019  10:03 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Not surprised when rookies have trouble draining jumpers, like Frank and Dotson. They've played for big crowds before, but not like the ones they saw as rookies. Not to mention playing in the Garden can be intimidating. Takes time for some players to tune out the crowd.

Dotson has been in and out of the rotation since becoming a Knick. Im surprised he has been able to put together so many good games in spite of 2 coaches and many different teammates.

As for Frank, I never got the feeling that he understood the need for a sense of urgency. Believe it played a big part in how things turned out for him in NY.

The good news is that NY has another French import...... The French Taco!!! Read an article about them. If you look at one, might have a Seinfeld reaction. "Whats the deal with French Tacos? Tortillas arent French, and it isnt a Taco!" Any French Knicks fans have one of these?

Opened one in Brooklyn about a year ago.

http://brooklyn.news12.com/story/36771703/fuhgeddaboudit-food-otacos-brooklyn

Agree about the lack of roster consistency. Dotson has been pulled in and out the lineup the past few seasons. It's hard too build consistency in that scenario. Disagree with you about Frank. I always bring up Diaw, but the dude was shooting nearly as bad as Frank his first two seasons in Atlanta. His TS% hovered around 48%. Maybe Frank needs a different environment to thrive like Diaw. Frank brings intensity on defense. His confidence shooting took a dump, but I don't think it's lack of fire. Who knows? But if rumors are true, and I hope they are, I'm not banking on many of these guys to be back next season. Maybe Mitch. But as hyped as I am about Mitch, I'm not sure I let that get in the way of a potential AD deal if it's on the table.

You can go back to when Frank was drafted, Ive never harped on Frank's shooting pct, not doing it now. Frank's shooting actually hasn't concerned me, its his lack of aggressiveness. His unwillingness to draw contact to get to the line.

If Frank played D, and took it to the other team, was a threat at the rim (with his height, and wingspan), the lack of consistent shooting would be more tolerable. Right now its almost entirely defense. Wrong decade for that.


Disappointed BTW at the lack of response to my question regarding the French Taco. French Taco scholars will look back on this time, and shed a tear. Seriously if you google the chain, and the man who started it, its a great story to see in France. The "Americsn Dream" French style.

I think Triple made reference with the same thing regarding Frank: He needs that edge. And a shot. If he can't bring both, he won't be long for the NBA.

Been saying this since Frank's first game. Was told I was being too hasty, by you among others.

There is plenty of context to this. To say that Frank will never have a shot or have that edge in his first year and come to a full conclusion, then yeah, hasty is appropriate. Don't think I would have used hasty otherwise.


There was a lot of push back on anyone critical of Frank.

Knox rookie year has already exposed the hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to Franks rookie year. He offered plenty to be critical about for majority of it.

Not really. Knox has been starting, and playing a good deal more minutes. He's playing against starters, the best, and still managed to be named rookie of the month, before he hit the wall, so to speak.

Knox's path has been tougher. They both have had up and down rookie seasons. Have seen more to build with in Knox's game. Believe Knox's sophomore year will be better than Frank's in part because he has shown himself to be a more aggressive player.

Knox at the moment isn't an effective player in any area of basketball. Not as a scorer, rebounder, playmaker, shooter, defender. With concerns that he may not have the lateral quickness and agility to effectively guard the perimeter. And may need to focus on getting stronger and holding down the stretch PF spot as he ages.

The fact that he won rookie of the months shows how poor the majority of his season has gone with the level of drop off. There is clear reason for it though given his age and need for physical development and conditioning.

The only reason for the lower level of critic despite the same lack of effectiveness(and arguably even less) is *preference*. He isn't held to the same standards set only due to preference not actual effectiveness.

You, Crush and a few others bring up G league a lot for development. Yet when Knox was having months long stretches of funk. Why was there no belief or mention of the G league to build Knox back up?

Just an example of the changeup in mindset. And again not due to actual effectiveness, but preference.

Ive definitely seen the makings of a scorer, the high scoring games being the tipoff

When Knox looks to set up teammates, he is isnt bad at it. Gets tunnel vision too much. Apparently talked to LeBron, who told him to be more of a distributor. We'll see if Knox takes that advice. He's been seeking out the best, past and present for advice. What you want to see from a rook who talks about being a player in this league.

As far as G-League, was in favor of Knox coming off the bench like Frank from the start. Knox started, got the rook of the month award, and ran out of gas. Before sending him to G-League, would have wanted to see a reduction in minutes first, see how Knox responds, then send him to G-League, if necessary. With Frank, reducing his minutes wasnt going to help. Was only playing around 20 mpg. Different situation.

Dotson in year 2

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