knicks1248 wrote:jrodmc wrote:TripleThreat wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Ira wrote:Look at it this way. We got Robinson in the draft who's probably worth the pick we used on Knox. We also got Trier, who's been pretty good for us.
Yeah if you look at it that way its not that big of a deal. Trier is the 2nd round pick and Knox is the 2 way player.
It's still concerns me that our recent lottery picks have been borderline trash to start out their NBA careers, the purpose of tanking all these yrs is to bring in more NBA ready impact players, not these projects that have role player ceilings.
If you suck at picking the right top tier draft picks, trade them away for a more sure thing..
1) If another team had a "sure thing" why would they want to trade said player for a draft pick? If the Knicks had a "sure thing" would you want them to trade it for a draft pick? You fail The Mirror Test
2) If you mean picks for veterans ( i.e. guys on their 2nd contracts), how are you going to make the salary matching work in said trade? If said player, even if the non Knicks team wanted to trade him, was making 12 million a year, how are you going to make the difference in the salary offset?
Draft picks are OPPORTUNITIES. They are not guarantees.
+1
Excellent post, especially #1. Absolutely believe you could patent the the mirror test logic for the ESPN Trade machine.
lol...are you saying don't trade draft picks for sure things like KD, Kyrie, AD, Lillard, we have a boat load of cap space and can take back more than enough salary, stars get traded every season for top picks.
what exactly are you saying?
Draft picks, first round picks, are paid through the ROOKIE SCALE EXCEPTION. Meaning you can go OVER the salary cap to pay that player. You are still liable for any luxury tax/repeater tax bill in raw dollars, but that means the first overall pick to a luxury tax paying team, they can draft a player, sign him, and not worry about carving out actual cap space to do it.
What this means in a trade ( Let's say Damon Lillard) is that you'd send X number of draft picks for Lillard ( this would never happen, but I'm running the scenario to discuss the point) To take in Lillard, the Knicks would need to have the open cap space already to absorb the contract ( difficult to impossible with the CBA's Salary Floor) or have contracts that would closely match to send out in exchange WITHOUT THE SALARY OFFSET OF EVEN THE ROOKIE CONTRACT. (Since the RSE has scaled up in the last CBA, this is not insignificant, Fultz's salary AAV is something like 10 million a year plus) No one is taking bad contracts in long term for Lillard. Meaning the non Knicks team would want expiring deals. Which would mean to fulfill your scenario, the Knicks would need to do what the Lakers did this offseason, sign heavy loaded one year deals to fringe players in the hopes of trading them. It would only be fringe player since only a fringe player would sign a one year deal with a bad/non playoff team with a **** owner.
By doing this, those fringe players will make it hard to tank ( they aren't going to help you get to the playoffs, but will help you enough to drag you out of the draft lottery) This means you are going to get a non Tier 1/ Tier 2 pick in the draft, meaning the value of said draft pick to trade is worth less. To make the money work, you reduce your ability to leverage a higher pick to trade, which is what teams will want for a star player.
IF, and it's a huge IF, even past this hurdle, Lillard did get traded to the Knicks, he would help them win, reducing the value of any future first round pick sent to Portland. They would be trading him for multiple middle round picks at best. Which does not help them. Also the Stepien Rule means a bulk of picks would need to be spaced out every other year. Even if the Knicks sent 3-4 first round picks, is Portland willing to wait EIGHT FUCKING YEARS to realize the full trade weight of the return? Also players drafted take 3 seasons to show what they will be in the league. Which would mean it could take the Trailblazers close to a DECADE to realize the hard line return on trading someone like Lillard for volume picks.
The other issue is ALL NBA FRANCHISES typically do not trade first round picks PAST the range of the current CBA. But more specifically, the range of negotiated agreements on rookie slotting and the RSE. Because this violates the COST CERTAINTY PRINCIPLE ( Which is why rookie contracts are so valuable, teams know what those players will cost but the other market place forces will put too many variables on things like free agents)
You are proposing trades that don't exist, which the non Knicks team would never make, for value that is declining, without accounting for the actual salary cap and marketplace and under which you'd never make the trade yourself ( You would never trade Damon Lillard if he was on the Knicks roster for a bunch of future middle tier picks spread out across 6-8-10 future seasons)
The "boatload of cap space" cost this team dearly. Sending out assets that would actually be useful to trade in the kind of trade you want . Teams only get 2 nominal picks and year. Most of the time, those picks are outside the range of useful. It's as you said, a crap shoot.
YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS MOTHERFUCKER.
You can't say draft picks are total crapshoots and miss too much and then expect a non Knicks team to take that risk and send in an established star like Dame Lillard for them. You devalue them but expect the non Knicks team to work outside of it's own interests and value them above market reality. What you are saying is "This is obvious" but obviously it can't be obvious to hundreds of people who have invested their entire lives to the game and spend ungodly hours and time trying to win and negotiate in this marketplace.
This isn't even beginning to discuss since the Sam Hinkie/76ers situation, while a team can enter the season UNDER the salary floor, informally the league administration will **** with your franchise if you do it. Raw open cap space, lots of it, means you have to spend money to get to the floor. If you want a quality player, you have to give them multiple years, which is just a lot harder to trade for the future. Since the only leverage the Knicks have is giving more AAV/years than any other bidding team.
This is an opportunity for you to learn something about how the NBA works. You will, as usual, ignore it. You are willfully ignorant. That's just pathetic dude. You are trolling for sport and I guess the Staff here is cool with it because you get to keep doing it. You devalue this community every time you post.
3/6/2019 7:05 PM