CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:I cant really find any moves that Perry has made to be clear mistakes. He's batting 1.000 in my book thus far.

As GM Under MILLs, perry is not calling the shots, he's make suggestions.

The same thing mills was doing when he was the GM..

As far as perry goes, he was brought in because he has good relationship with players, yet it wasn't able to mend any of the relationships that went sour, with Melo, Noah, KP, Kanter, or Willy.

For every Mitch, trier, luke, mudiay, there's a David Lee, Nate, Ariza, prigioni, novak LIn.

Every GM finds a decent player under the radar, but if it still ends in 50+ losses, what's the difference..

Every franchise handles this differently.

You've been told this 50+ times and yet you don't seem to care.

Mills runs the BUSINESS side of operations. Running a sports franchise from the accounting/marketing/branding/television/sponsor/local politics/media side is extremely ****ing hard. He only took the GM role because Phil Jackson had/has no concept of the CBA or cap principles ( far deeper than the Coon summary, far far far deeper. I've read several of the last few CBAs, not all at once, and that **** is dense and complicated. )

In a sport with small rosters/few overall moves, the GM typically checks in with heads of the other franchise departments and owner and apprises them of what's going on. In cases like Danny Ferry and the Cavs, he had to get permission from Gilbert, who got permission from LBJ. In cases like Belichick, he gives token updates to Kraft and does whatever the hell he wants.

Perry makes all personnel decisions for this team. This was contingent on him taking the job. Don't forget the Knicks had to give up an asset for Perry. This had to be negotiated. Whatever Mills says otherwise is **** he says to the press. What the **** else is he going to say to the press? How things are said and how things are two different worlds in pro sports. For Mills to make personnel decisions, he'd need a deeper dive into scouting ( hard as **** and time intensive) on top of his normal duties ( already hard as ****)

People underestimate how ****ing hard some jobs are in life.

An amateur boxer who doesn't do it for money and can't make a career out of it. And competes against real competition. You want to throw a jab 20K times? Hard as ****.

Those little girl gymnasts who spend their entire lives as preteens training non stop. Hard as ****.

Those dancers who spin on their hands for like two minutes of original choreography. Where they have to do blocking and time everything and most of them suffer from multiple injuries all the time. Hard as ****.

I've seen first hand what a guy like Mills has to do every single day. It would make most dudes here sit down and cry and drink a bottle of Vodka. Hard as ****. It's not a job, not a career, it takes over your entire life.

The NBA model has ZERO MARGIN OF ERROR. Small draft, few FAs, few impact players, small amount of resources each year, guaranteed contracts. Hard as ****. At least in the NFL and MLB, you have some wiggle room to **** up.

Here's the other thing you are told 50 thousand times and you ignore. Dumping someone like Mills means dumping EVERY RELATIONSHIP AND CONTACT HE'S BUILT. That's 1000 little fires getting put out every week that would turn into firestorms from someone raw and new.

You need to be mentally tough to work in a front office in pro sports. I mean hard as ****ing nails.

You talk, but you don't listen. If you did, you'd learn more about how this all works. You'd be better off asking others WHAT THEY THINK. You never do that.

His Contacts...LMAO, good thing I wasn't drinking anything.

Mudiay, THJ, Burke, Mario, Mcdermott, Kanter, Beasly, jack, sessions..REALLY...Good contacts

FO record stands at 40-103 in just 1 1/2 seasons, by the end of the season they will be more than 70 games under 500 in just 2 seasons.

In OCT the FO stated 100% development(not just rookies, but everybody) in the players that were here, 3 month later, half the roster is gone, your once franchise player is gone, almost everyone else on the roster is up for grabs.

Let me ask you this, if the FO's strikes out this off season by getting (anything less than a 2nd round pick would be a disaster) and no stars..

What would think?

In regards to development, are you saying the Knicks aren’t committed to development because they traded Lee, Tim, Trey and waived Kanter? They brought in draft picks, a 21 year old point guard, a high character vet that jumped right into a mentor role and brought up guys from the g league. No Fiz kid was moved in that deal.

LBJ, Wade and Bosh raved about Fiz helping them develop deep into their careers, none of the players they traded are finish products, and Fiz talked about that in the beginning of the season, you always learning when your at work regardless to how many yrs you been there..Development never stops,it's not just about these young players as you would like to perceived

You talk about this FO not making the same mistakes...Well as long as I can remember every president/GM has opened up enough cap space(except layden) with the hopes of signing a big FA, and it has never been done, like never

You sacrifice the development of young players when you build a losing culture, which is why the commissioner is HELL BENT on discouraging tanking..

You look at the progression and development of guys like Fox and Bagley, and then turn to Frank and dotson....look at theirs

Did you think any of the guys traded were going to be on the roster next year? Maybe Lee and Tim but only because the front office couldn’t move their contracts.

Hell yeah, if the coaching staff got those guys to level up their games and we were in position like the NETs and Kings showing tons of improvement, then KP isn't coming to you with Lack-of-progression-issues, and TJH is looking like a solid keeper, (see victor Olapido) he would be looked upon as a piece to the puzzle, not a burdensome contract.

You do believe that a big part of coaching is getting guys to take their game to the next level?

Trust me, if we were in a playoff hunt, these youngs kids would be looking like Gems...

Two words that go Hand and HAND...LOSING and DRAMA,

This yr KP and the FO, last yr Noah and THe FO, JH on the hot seat, Melo and Phil, Fisher and Phil, MDA and Melo, Marbury and MDA

sorry but the one season we had no drama we won 54 games with a roster that should have won 45...Losing breeds a negative environment

The drama that you mention, does any of it have to do with Scott Perry and moves he made? Also, I thought the front office handled the KP situation in a manner that minimized the drama.
In regards to coaching guys up, the only guy that might have been a part of the future was Tim. Prior to his issues with plantar fascia, Tim was playing very well.

So we are on the same page, What are you classifying as scott perry's moves and how has it made us better?

Try separating the moves Perry has made to put us in a better position vs a season which was without its star, one way or another.

A better position to deal, with more 1st round picks. While still keeping our picks through the process, so to speak. Perry has been working on giving the Knicks more leverage to make deals, more flexibility to find elite talent.

You are 100 percent right that this does not guarantee that Perry will sign elite players who fit, make draft picks who stick, make trades that build a contender. You are 100 percent wrong that Perry shouldnt get recognition for putting the Knicks in the best position to contend in decades.

If the lottery is a gamble, if signing free agents is a gamble, that isnt guaranteed. Perry has made sure he is going to show up at the table with a big wad of cash. Yet he hasnt mortgaged the house to do it.

Judging Perry on this phase of the rebuild alone, he's done a very good job. Be patient! Been a while since a Knicks top exec looked like he had things figured out.

Well said. If you quantify success only by wins and losses then you can’t give Perry a good grade. In the context of a rebuild I think he has done afantastic job of acquiring cap space, young players and draft picks. The rebuild reminds me a bit of what Ainge did in Boston and Morey in Houston. It is a process that has worked and was employed by two of the most successful gms in the league.

Perry is a pawn in mills game.

Their game plan went like this..

Knicks president Steve Mills and new GM Scott Perry highlighted the team's young core and stressed the importance of defense during Perry's introductory press conference on Monday.

Mills singled out Kristaps Porzingis, the recently-signed Tim Hardaway, Jr., first-round pick Frank Ntilikina, and Willy Hernangomez as the Knicks' young core.
"I think there's a lot to build around those young guys," Perry said about the Knicks' young core.

LOL..ok

SCOTT's ROLE according to STEVE MILLS

“I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,” Mills said. “He’s going to have a chance to manage the coaching staff, manage the scouting staff and make recommendations as to where we should go as a basketball organization.

Recommendations is not confirming that perry makes trades or even came up with the idea, or even approve of the idea..

My beef had never been with Perry, it's been all Mills, just like some of you have no problems with mills but hate dolan..

Saying he did a fantastic job buying out contracts, getting rid of the players you said were your core a yr ago, and saying that defense was going to be the #1 priority and we have been the worst defensive team since he said that...

The ONLY thing this FO has done, is maintain Cap flex, and to some of you thats a huge accomplishment, well we shall see come draft day..

BTW, when does win loss matter?

Fantastic to me would be signing KD and Irving, and finding a trade for AD, then I would walk arounD with a "i LOVE steve mills" TEE SHIRT

Mills has a long tenure with the Knicks and almost all of it sucked. The Isiah years sucked. When he replaced Grunwald he sucked. When he was with Phil he sucked. But he hasn’t sucked with Perry. It also is his first time in charge where the basketball people have autonomy. If your point is Mills has sucked, I agree. But I don’t think the Perry/Mills tandem has sucked. I think they have been thorough and effective in doing what they think will get the Knicks to a competitive, sustainable place.

Mills was not part of knicks in the Isiah era. He neither sucked or was good.
When he replaced Grunwald in Oct of 2013, Phil was being courted by December and was signed by March of 2014. Six months.
As GM, or what ever his role was under Phil, he was likely not involved in the basketball roster end.

Executives are not like athletes. We transpose a players statistics and think its to be expected going forward. Shooting %, turnovers, etc for a veteran player likely is expected when you obtain the player. An executive can change his thinking. A franchise can change its thought process.
Change the process you change the result. It’s logical. It’s might not succeed but it won’t be for the circumstances Rainman are using as past examples.
If one can’t see how this franchise has done this then its a loss as its part of the fun.
Ainge was criticized early in his rebuild and Hinkie lost his job in PHilly. No two are the same and I’m not saying we are out of the woods yet. I feel better about this franchise than I have in years regarding its upside. Is that because its so low? Perhaps. But I see kids playing instead of tired vets on their last legs. I see picks and cap space. Mistakes of the past are not relevant unless the contracts still linger. Some do, but thats it.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:I cant really find any moves that Perry has made to be clear mistakes. He's batting 1.000 in my book thus far.

As GM Under MILLs, perry is not calling the shots, he's make suggestions.

The same thing mills was doing when he was the GM..

As far as perry goes, he was brought in because he has good relationship with players, yet it wasn't able to mend any of the relationships that went sour, with Melo, Noah, KP, Kanter, or Willy.

For every Mitch, trier, luke, mudiay, there's a David Lee, Nate, Ariza, prigioni, novak LIn.

Every GM finds a decent player under the radar, but if it still ends in 50+ losses, what's the difference..

Every franchise handles this differently.

You've been told this 50+ times and yet you don't seem to care.

Mills runs the BUSINESS side of operations. Running a sports franchise from the accounting/marketing/branding/television/sponsor/local politics/media side is extremely ****ing hard. He only took the GM role because Phil Jackson had/has no concept of the CBA or cap principles ( far deeper than the Coon summary, far far far deeper. I've read several of the last few CBAs, not all at once, and that **** is dense and complicated. )

In a sport with small rosters/few overall moves, the GM typically checks in with heads of the other franchise departments and owner and apprises them of what's going on. In cases like Danny Ferry and the Cavs, he had to get permission from Gilbert, who got permission from LBJ. In cases like Belichick, he gives token updates to Kraft and does whatever the hell he wants.

Perry makes all personnel decisions for this team. This was contingent on him taking the job. Don't forget the Knicks had to give up an asset for Perry. This had to be negotiated. Whatever Mills says otherwise is **** he says to the press. What the **** else is he going to say to the press? How things are said and how things are two different worlds in pro sports. For Mills to make personnel decisions, he'd need a deeper dive into scouting ( hard as **** and time intensive) on top of his normal duties ( already hard as ****)

People underestimate how ****ing hard some jobs are in life.

An amateur boxer who doesn't do it for money and can't make a career out of it. And competes against real competition. You want to throw a jab 20K times? Hard as ****.

Those little girl gymnasts who spend their entire lives as preteens training non stop. Hard as ****.

Those dancers who spin on their hands for like two minutes of original choreography. Where they have to do blocking and time everything and most of them suffer from multiple injuries all the time. Hard as ****.

I've seen first hand what a guy like Mills has to do every single day. It would make most dudes here sit down and cry and drink a bottle of Vodka. Hard as ****. It's not a job, not a career, it takes over your entire life.

The NBA model has ZERO MARGIN OF ERROR. Small draft, few FAs, few impact players, small amount of resources each year, guaranteed contracts. Hard as ****. At least in the NFL and MLB, you have some wiggle room to **** up.

Here's the other thing you are told 50 thousand times and you ignore. Dumping someone like Mills means dumping EVERY RELATIONSHIP AND CONTACT HE'S BUILT. That's 1000 little fires getting put out every week that would turn into firestorms from someone raw and new.

You need to be mentally tough to work in a front office in pro sports. I mean hard as ****ing nails.

You talk, but you don't listen. If you did, you'd learn more about how this all works. You'd be better off asking others WHAT THEY THINK. You never do that.

His Contacts...LMAO, good thing I wasn't drinking anything.

Mudiay, THJ, Burke, Mario, Mcdermott, Kanter, Beasly, jack, sessions..REALLY...Good contacts

FO record stands at 40-103 in just 1 1/2 seasons, by the end of the season they will be more than 70 games under 500 in just 2 seasons.

In OCT the FO stated 100% development(not just rookies, but everybody) in the players that were here, 3 month later, half the roster is gone, your once franchise player is gone, almost everyone else on the roster is up for grabs.

Let me ask you this, if the FO's strikes out this off season by getting (anything less than a 2nd round pick would be a disaster) and no stars..

What would think?

In regards to development, are you saying the Knicks aren’t committed to development because they traded Lee, Tim, Trey and waived Kanter? They brought in draft picks, a 21 year old point guard, a high character vet that jumped right into a mentor role and brought up guys from the g league. No Fiz kid was moved in that deal.

LBJ, Wade and Bosh raved about Fiz helping them develop deep into their careers, none of the players they traded are finish products, and Fiz talked about that in the beginning of the season, you always learning when your at work regardless to how many yrs you been there..Development never stops,it's not just about these young players as you would like to perceived

You talk about this FO not making the same mistakes...Well as long as I can remember every president/GM has opened up enough cap space(except layden) with the hopes of signing a big FA, and it has never been done, like never

You sacrifice the development of young players when you build a losing culture, which is why the commissioner is HELL BENT on discouraging tanking..

You look at the progression and development of guys like Fox and Bagley, and then turn to Frank and dotson....look at theirs

Did you think any of the guys traded were going to be on the roster next year? Maybe Lee and Tim but only because the front office couldn’t move their contracts.

Hell yeah, if the coaching staff got those guys to level up their games and we were in position like the NETs and Kings showing tons of improvement, then KP isn't coming to you with Lack-of-progression-issues, and TJH is looking like a solid keeper, (see victor Olapido) he would be looked upon as a piece to the puzzle, not a burdensome contract.

You do believe that a big part of coaching is getting guys to take their game to the next level?

Trust me, if we were in a playoff hunt, these youngs kids would be looking like Gems...

Two words that go Hand and HAND...LOSING and DRAMA,

This yr KP and the FO, last yr Noah and THe FO, JH on the hot seat, Melo and Phil, Fisher and Phil, MDA and Melo, Marbury and MDA

sorry but the one season we had no drama we won 54 games with a roster that should have won 45...Losing breeds a negative environment

The drama that you mention, does any of it have to do with Scott Perry and moves he made? Also, I thought the front office handled the KP situation in a manner that minimized the drama.
In regards to coaching guys up, the only guy that might have been a part of the future was Tim. Prior to his issues with plantar fascia, Tim was playing very well.

So we are on the same page, What are you classifying as scott perry's moves and how has it made us better?

Try separating the moves Perry has made to put us in a better position vs a season which was without its star, one way or another.

A better position to deal, with more 1st round picks. While still keeping our picks through the process, so to speak. Perry has been working on giving the Knicks more leverage to make deals, more flexibility to find elite talent.

You are 100 percent right that this does not guarantee that Perry will sign elite players who fit, make draft picks who stick, make trades that build a contender. You are 100 percent wrong that Perry shouldnt get recognition for putting the Knicks in the best position to contend in decades.

If the lottery is a gamble, if signing free agents is a gamble, that isnt guaranteed. Perry has made sure he is going to show up at the table with a big wad of cash. Yet he hasnt mortgaged the house to do it.

Judging Perry on this phase of the rebuild alone, he's done a very good job. Be patient! Been a while since a Knicks top exec looked like he had things figured out.

Well said. If you quantify success only by wins and losses then you can’t give Perry a good grade. In the context of a rebuild I think he has done afantastic job of acquiring cap space, young players and draft picks. The rebuild reminds me a bit of what Ainge did in Boston and Morey in Houston. It is a process that has worked and was employed by two of the most successful gms in the league.

Perry is a pawn in mills game.

Their game plan went like this..

Knicks president Steve Mills and new GM Scott Perry highlighted the team's young core and stressed the importance of defense during Perry's introductory press conference on Monday.

Mills singled out Kristaps Porzingis, the recently-signed Tim Hardaway, Jr., first-round pick Frank Ntilikina, and Willy Hernangomez as the Knicks' young core.
"I think there's a lot to build around those young guys," Perry said about the Knicks' young core.

LOL..ok

SCOTT's ROLE according to STEVE MILLS

“I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,” Mills said. “He’s going to have a chance to manage the coaching staff, manage the scouting staff and make recommendations as to where we should go as a basketball organization.

Recommendations is not confirming that perry makes trades or even came up with the idea, or even approve of the idea..

My beef had never been with Perry, it's been all Mills, just like some of you have no problems with mills but hate dolan..

Saying he did a fantastic job buying out contracts, getting rid of the players you said were your core a yr ago, and saying that defense was going to be the #1 priority and we have been the worst defensive team since he said that...

The ONLY thing this FO has done, is maintain Cap flex, and to some of you thats a huge accomplishment, well we shall see come draft day..

BTW, when does win loss matter?

Fantastic to me would be signing KD and Irving, and finding a trade for AD, then I would walk arounD with a "i LOVE steve mills" TEE SHIRT

Mills has a long tenure with the Knicks and almost all of it sucked. The Isiah years sucked. When he replaced Grunwald he sucked. When he was with Phil he sucked. But he hasn’t sucked with Perry. It also is his first time in charge where the basketball people have autonomy. If your point is Mills has sucked, I agree. But I don’t think the Perry/Mills tandem has sucked. I think they have been thorough and effective in doing what they think will get the Knicks to a competitive, sustainable place.

Mills was not part of knicks in the Isiah era. He neither sucked or was good.
When he replaced Grunwald in Oct of 2013, Phil was being courted by December and was signed by March of 2014. Six months.
As GM, or what ever his role was under Phil, he was likely not involved in the basketball roster end.

Executives are not like athletes. We transpose a players statistics and think its to be expected going forward. Shooting %, turnovers, etc for a veteran player likely is expected when you obtain the player. An executive can change his thinking. A franchise can change its thought process.
Change the process you change the result. It’s logical. It’s might not succeed but it won’t be for the circumstances Rainman are using as past examples.
If one can’t see how this franchise has done this then its a loss as its part of the fun.
Ainge was criticized early in his rebuild and Hinkie lost his job in PHilly. No two are the same and I’m not saying we are out of the woods yet. I feel better about this franchise than I have in years regarding its upside. Is that because its so low? Perhaps. But I see kids playing instead of tired vets on their last legs. I see picks and cap space. Mistakes of the past are not relevant unless the contracts still linger. Some do, but thats it.

vice-president of Basketball and Player Development,[3] Mills then became Chief operating officer and Sports Business President of Madison Square Garden in 2003.[4] His duties at MSG included supervising day-to-day operations, including finances, business strategies of the NBA's New York Knicks, NHL's New York Rangers and the WNBA's New York Liberty. All sports related activities were under his jurisdiction, including boxing, college basketball and track & field.

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:I cant really find any moves that Perry has made to be clear mistakes. He's batting 1.000 in my book thus far.

As GM Under MILLs, perry is not calling the shots, he's make suggestions.

The same thing mills was doing when he was the GM..

As far as perry goes, he was brought in because he has good relationship with players, yet it wasn't able to mend any of the relationships that went sour, with Melo, Noah, KP, Kanter, or Willy.

For every Mitch, trier, luke, mudiay, there's a David Lee, Nate, Ariza, prigioni, novak LIn.

Every GM finds a decent player under the radar, but if it still ends in 50+ losses, what's the difference..

Every franchise handles this differently.

You've been told this 50+ times and yet you don't seem to care.

Mills runs the BUSINESS side of operations. Running a sports franchise from the accounting/marketing/branding/television/sponsor/local politics/media side is extremely ****ing hard. He only took the GM role because Phil Jackson had/has no concept of the CBA or cap principles ( far deeper than the Coon summary, far far far deeper. I've read several of the last few CBAs, not all at once, and that **** is dense and complicated. )

In a sport with small rosters/few overall moves, the GM typically checks in with heads of the other franchise departments and owner and apprises them of what's going on. In cases like Danny Ferry and the Cavs, he had to get permission from Gilbert, who got permission from LBJ. In cases like Belichick, he gives token updates to Kraft and does whatever the hell he wants.

Perry makes all personnel decisions for this team. This was contingent on him taking the job. Don't forget the Knicks had to give up an asset for Perry. This had to be negotiated. Whatever Mills says otherwise is **** he says to the press. What the **** else is he going to say to the press? How things are said and how things are two different worlds in pro sports. For Mills to make personnel decisions, he'd need a deeper dive into scouting ( hard as **** and time intensive) on top of his normal duties ( already hard as ****)

People underestimate how ****ing hard some jobs are in life.

An amateur boxer who doesn't do it for money and can't make a career out of it. And competes against real competition. You want to throw a jab 20K times? Hard as ****.

Those little girl gymnasts who spend their entire lives as preteens training non stop. Hard as ****.

Those dancers who spin on their hands for like two minutes of original choreography. Where they have to do blocking and time everything and most of them suffer from multiple injuries all the time. Hard as ****.

I've seen first hand what a guy like Mills has to do every single day. It would make most dudes here sit down and cry and drink a bottle of Vodka. Hard as ****. It's not a job, not a career, it takes over your entire life.

The NBA model has ZERO MARGIN OF ERROR. Small draft, few FAs, few impact players, small amount of resources each year, guaranteed contracts. Hard as ****. At least in the NFL and MLB, you have some wiggle room to **** up.

Here's the other thing you are told 50 thousand times and you ignore. Dumping someone like Mills means dumping EVERY RELATIONSHIP AND CONTACT HE'S BUILT. That's 1000 little fires getting put out every week that would turn into firestorms from someone raw and new.

You need to be mentally tough to work in a front office in pro sports. I mean hard as ****ing nails.

You talk, but you don't listen. If you did, you'd learn more about how this all works. You'd be better off asking others WHAT THEY THINK. You never do that.

His Contacts...LMAO, good thing I wasn't drinking anything.

Mudiay, THJ, Burke, Mario, Mcdermott, Kanter, Beasly, jack, sessions..REALLY...Good contacts

FO record stands at 40-103 in just 1 1/2 seasons, by the end of the season they will be more than 70 games under 500 in just 2 seasons.

In OCT the FO stated 100% development(not just rookies, but everybody) in the players that were here, 3 month later, half the roster is gone, your once franchise player is gone, almost everyone else on the roster is up for grabs.

Let me ask you this, if the FO's strikes out this off season by getting (anything less than a 2nd round pick would be a disaster) and no stars..

What would think?

In regards to development, are you saying the Knicks aren’t committed to development because they traded Lee, Tim, Trey and waived Kanter? They brought in draft picks, a 21 year old point guard, a high character vet that jumped right into a mentor role and brought up guys from the g league. No Fiz kid was moved in that deal.

LBJ, Wade and Bosh raved about Fiz helping them develop deep into their careers, none of the players they traded are finish products, and Fiz talked about that in the beginning of the season, you always learning when your at work regardless to how many yrs you been there..Development never stops,it's not just about these young players as you would like to perceived

You talk about this FO not making the same mistakes...Well as long as I can remember every president/GM has opened up enough cap space(except layden) with the hopes of signing a big FA, and it has never been done, like never

You sacrifice the development of young players when you build a losing culture, which is why the commissioner is HELL BENT on discouraging tanking..

You look at the progression and development of guys like Fox and Bagley, and then turn to Frank and dotson....look at theirs

Did you think any of the guys traded were going to be on the roster next year? Maybe Lee and Tim but only because the front office couldn’t move their contracts.

Hell yeah, if the coaching staff got those guys to level up their games and we were in position like the NETs and Kings showing tons of improvement, then KP isn't coming to you with Lack-of-progression-issues, and TJH is looking like a solid keeper, (see victor Olapido) he would be looked upon as a piece to the puzzle, not a burdensome contract.

You do believe that a big part of coaching is getting guys to take their game to the next level?

Trust me, if we were in a playoff hunt, these youngs kids would be looking like Gems...

Two words that go Hand and HAND...LOSING and DRAMA,

This yr KP and the FO, last yr Noah and THe FO, JH on the hot seat, Melo and Phil, Fisher and Phil, MDA and Melo, Marbury and MDA

sorry but the one season we had no drama we won 54 games with a roster that should have won 45...Losing breeds a negative environment

The drama that you mention, does any of it have to do with Scott Perry and moves he made? Also, I thought the front office handled the KP situation in a manner that minimized the drama.
In regards to coaching guys up, the only guy that might have been a part of the future was Tim. Prior to his issues with plantar fascia, Tim was playing very well.

So we are on the same page, What are you classifying as scott perry's moves and how has it made us better?

Try separating the moves Perry has made to put us in a better position vs a season which was without its star, one way or another.

A better position to deal, with more 1st round picks. While still keeping our picks through the process, so to speak. Perry has been working on giving the Knicks more leverage to make deals, more flexibility to find elite talent.

You are 100 percent right that this does not guarantee that Perry will sign elite players who fit, make draft picks who stick, make trades that build a contender. You are 100 percent wrong that Perry shouldnt get recognition for putting the Knicks in the best position to contend in decades.

If the lottery is a gamble, if signing free agents is a gamble, that isnt guaranteed. Perry has made sure he is going to show up at the table with a big wad of cash. Yet he hasnt mortgaged the house to do it.

Judging Perry on this phase of the rebuild alone, he's done a very good job. Be patient! Been a while since a Knicks top exec looked like he had things figured out.

Well said. If you quantify success only by wins and losses then you can’t give Perry a good grade. In the context of a rebuild I think he has done afantastic job of acquiring cap space, young players and draft picks. The rebuild reminds me a bit of what Ainge did in Boston and Morey in Houston. It is a process that has worked and was employed by two of the most successful gms in the league.

Perry is a pawn in mills game.

Their game plan went like this..

Knicks president Steve Mills and new GM Scott Perry highlighted the team's young core and stressed the importance of defense during Perry's introductory press conference on Monday.

Mills singled out Kristaps Porzingis, the recently-signed Tim Hardaway, Jr., first-round pick Frank Ntilikina, and Willy Hernangomez as the Knicks' young core.
"I think there's a lot to build around those young guys," Perry said about the Knicks' young core.

LOL..ok

SCOTT's ROLE according to STEVE MILLS

“I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,” Mills said. “He’s going to have a chance to manage the coaching staff, manage the scouting staff and make recommendations as to where we should go as a basketball organization.

Recommendations is not confirming that perry makes trades or even came up with the idea, or even approve of the idea..

My beef had never been with Perry, it's been all Mills, just like some of you have no problems with mills but hate dolan..

Saying he did a fantastic job buying out contracts, getting rid of the players you said were your core a yr ago, and saying that defense was going to be the #1 priority and we have been the worst defensive team since he said that...

The ONLY thing this FO has done, is maintain Cap flex, and to some of you thats a huge accomplishment, well we shall see come draft day..

BTW, when does win loss matter?

Fantastic to me would be signing KD and Irving, and finding a trade for AD, then I would walk arounD with a "i LOVE steve mills" TEE SHIRT

Mills has a long tenure with the Knicks and almost all of it sucked. The Isiah years sucked. When he replaced Grunwald he sucked. When he was with Phil he sucked. But he hasn’t sucked with Perry. It also is his first time in charge where the basketball people have autonomy. If your point is Mills has sucked, I agree. But I don’t think the Perry/Mills tandem has sucked. I think they have been thorough and effective in doing what they think will get the Knicks to a competitive, sustainable place.

Mills was not part of knicks in the Isiah era. He neither sucked or was good.
When he replaced Grunwald in Oct of 2013, Phil was being courted by December and was signed by March of 2014. Six months.
As GM, or what ever his role was under Phil, he was likely not involved in the basketball roster end.

Executives are not like athletes. We transpose a players statistics and think its to be expected going forward. Shooting %, turnovers, etc for a veteran player likely is expected when you obtain the player. An executive can change his thinking. A franchise can change its thought process.
Change the process you change the result. It’s logical. It’s might not succeed but it won’t be for the circumstances Rainman are using as past examples.
If one can’t see how this franchise has done this then its a loss as its part of the fun.
Ainge was criticized early in his rebuild and Hinkie lost his job in PHilly. No two are the same and I’m not saying we are out of the woods yet. I feel better about this franchise than I have in years regarding its upside. Is that because its so low? Perhaps. But I see kids playing instead of tired vets on their last legs. I see picks and cap space. Mistakes of the past are not relevant unless the contracts still linger. Some do, but thats it.

vice-president of Basketball and Player Development,[3] Mills then became Chief operating officer and Sports Business President of Madison Square Garden in 2003.[4] His duties at MSG included supervising day-to-day operations, including finances, business strategies of the NBA's New York Knicks, NHL's New York Rangers and the WNBA's New York Liberty. All sports related activities were under his jurisdiction, including boxing, college basketball and track & field.

This is the role best suited for him, this is what he went to princeton for and majored in. More and more I just feel like these guys are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

How do you state that DEFENSE will be the #1 focus then trade for Kanter, Mcdermott and mudiay, signed Mario, burke...They say one thing and then do another..

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:I cant really find any moves that Perry has made to be clear mistakes. He's batting 1.000 in my book thus far.

As GM Under MILLs, perry is not calling the shots, he's make suggestions.

The same thing mills was doing when he was the GM..

As far as perry goes, he was brought in because he has good relationship with players, yet it wasn't able to mend any of the relationships that went sour, with Melo, Noah, KP, Kanter, or Willy.

For every Mitch, trier, luke, mudiay, there's a David Lee, Nate, Ariza, prigioni, novak LIn.

Every GM finds a decent player under the radar, but if it still ends in 50+ losses, what's the difference..

Every franchise handles this differently.

You've been told this 50+ times and yet you don't seem to care.

Mills runs the BUSINESS side of operations. Running a sports franchise from the accounting/marketing/branding/television/sponsor/local politics/media side is extremely ****ing hard. He only took the GM role because Phil Jackson had/has no concept of the CBA or cap principles ( far deeper than the Coon summary, far far far deeper. I've read several of the last few CBAs, not all at once, and that **** is dense and complicated. )

In a sport with small rosters/few overall moves, the GM typically checks in with heads of the other franchise departments and owner and apprises them of what's going on. In cases like Danny Ferry and the Cavs, he had to get permission from Gilbert, who got permission from LBJ. In cases like Belichick, he gives token updates to Kraft and does whatever the hell he wants.

Perry makes all personnel decisions for this team. This was contingent on him taking the job. Don't forget the Knicks had to give up an asset for Perry. This had to be negotiated. Whatever Mills says otherwise is **** he says to the press. What the **** else is he going to say to the press? How things are said and how things are two different worlds in pro sports. For Mills to make personnel decisions, he'd need a deeper dive into scouting ( hard as **** and time intensive) on top of his normal duties ( already hard as ****)

People underestimate how ****ing hard some jobs are in life.

An amateur boxer who doesn't do it for money and can't make a career out of it. And competes against real competition. You want to throw a jab 20K times? Hard as ****.

Those little girl gymnasts who spend their entire lives as preteens training non stop. Hard as ****.

Those dancers who spin on their hands for like two minutes of original choreography. Where they have to do blocking and time everything and most of them suffer from multiple injuries all the time. Hard as ****.

I've seen first hand what a guy like Mills has to do every single day. It would make most dudes here sit down and cry and drink a bottle of Vodka. Hard as ****. It's not a job, not a career, it takes over your entire life.

The NBA model has ZERO MARGIN OF ERROR. Small draft, few FAs, few impact players, small amount of resources each year, guaranteed contracts. Hard as ****. At least in the NFL and MLB, you have some wiggle room to **** up.

Here's the other thing you are told 50 thousand times and you ignore. Dumping someone like Mills means dumping EVERY RELATIONSHIP AND CONTACT HE'S BUILT. That's 1000 little fires getting put out every week that would turn into firestorms from someone raw and new.

You need to be mentally tough to work in a front office in pro sports. I mean hard as ****ing nails.

You talk, but you don't listen. If you did, you'd learn more about how this all works. You'd be better off asking others WHAT THEY THINK. You never do that.

His Contacts...LMAO, good thing I wasn't drinking anything.

Mudiay, THJ, Burke, Mario, Mcdermott, Kanter, Beasly, jack, sessions..REALLY...Good contacts

FO record stands at 40-103 in just 1 1/2 seasons, by the end of the season they will be more than 70 games under 500 in just 2 seasons.

In OCT the FO stated 100% development(not just rookies, but everybody) in the players that were here, 3 month later, half the roster is gone, your once franchise player is gone, almost everyone else on the roster is up for grabs.

Let me ask you this, if the FO's strikes out this off season by getting (anything less than a 2nd round pick would be a disaster) and no stars..

What would think?

In regards to development, are you saying the Knicks aren’t committed to development because they traded Lee, Tim, Trey and waived Kanter? They brought in draft picks, a 21 year old point guard, a high character vet that jumped right into a mentor role and brought up guys from the g league. No Fiz kid was moved in that deal.

LBJ, Wade and Bosh raved about Fiz helping them develop deep into their careers, none of the players they traded are finish products, and Fiz talked about that in the beginning of the season, you always learning when your at work regardless to how many yrs you been there..Development never stops,it's not just about these young players as you would like to perceived

You talk about this FO not making the same mistakes...Well as long as I can remember every president/GM has opened up enough cap space(except layden) with the hopes of signing a big FA, and it has never been done, like never

You sacrifice the development of young players when you build a losing culture, which is why the commissioner is HELL BENT on discouraging tanking..

You look at the progression and development of guys like Fox and Bagley, and then turn to Frank and dotson....look at theirs

Did you think any of the guys traded were going to be on the roster next year? Maybe Lee and Tim but only because the front office couldn’t move their contracts.

Hell yeah, if the coaching staff got those guys to level up their games and we were in position like the NETs and Kings showing tons of improvement, then KP isn't coming to you with Lack-of-progression-issues, and TJH is looking like a solid keeper, (see victor Olapido) he would be looked upon as a piece to the puzzle, not a burdensome contract.

You do believe that a big part of coaching is getting guys to take their game to the next level?

Trust me, if we were in a playoff hunt, these youngs kids would be looking like Gems...

Two words that go Hand and HAND...LOSING and DRAMA,

This yr KP and the FO, last yr Noah and THe FO, JH on the hot seat, Melo and Phil, Fisher and Phil, MDA and Melo, Marbury and MDA

sorry but the one season we had no drama we won 54 games with a roster that should have won 45...Losing breeds a negative environment

The drama that you mention, does any of it have to do with Scott Perry and moves he made? Also, I thought the front office handled the KP situation in a manner that minimized the drama.
In regards to coaching guys up, the only guy that might have been a part of the future was Tim. Prior to his issues with plantar fascia, Tim was playing very well.

So we are on the same page, What are you classifying as scott perry's moves and how has it made us better?

Try separating the moves Perry has made to put us in a better position vs a season which was without its star, one way or another.

A better position to deal, with more 1st round picks. While still keeping our picks through the process, so to speak. Perry has been working on giving the Knicks more leverage to make deals, more flexibility to find elite talent.

You are 100 percent right that this does not guarantee that Perry will sign elite players who fit, make draft picks who stick, make trades that build a contender. You are 100 percent wrong that Perry shouldnt get recognition for putting the Knicks in the best position to contend in decades.

If the lottery is a gamble, if signing free agents is a gamble, that isnt guaranteed. Perry has made sure he is going to show up at the table with a big wad of cash. Yet he hasnt mortgaged the house to do it.

Judging Perry on this phase of the rebuild alone, he's done a very good job. Be patient! Been a while since a Knicks top exec looked like he had things figured out.

Well said. If you quantify success only by wins and losses then you can’t give Perry a good grade. In the context of a rebuild I think he has done afantastic job of acquiring cap space, young players and draft picks. The rebuild reminds me a bit of what Ainge did in Boston and Morey in Houston. It is a process that has worked and was employed by two of the most successful gms in the league.

Perry is a pawn in mills game.

Their game plan went like this..

Knicks president Steve Mills and new GM Scott Perry highlighted the team's young core and stressed the importance of defense during Perry's introductory press conference on Monday.

Mills singled out Kristaps Porzingis, the recently-signed Tim Hardaway, Jr., first-round pick Frank Ntilikina, and Willy Hernangomez as the Knicks' young core.
"I think there's a lot to build around those young guys," Perry said about the Knicks' young core.

LOL..ok

SCOTT's ROLE according to STEVE MILLS

“I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,” Mills said. “He’s going to have a chance to manage the coaching staff, manage the scouting staff and make recommendations as to where we should go as a basketball organization.

Recommendations is not confirming that perry makes trades or even came up with the idea, or even approve of the idea..

My beef had never been with Perry, it's been all Mills, just like some of you have no problems with mills but hate dolan..

Saying he did a fantastic job buying out contracts, getting rid of the players you said were your core a yr ago, and saying that defense was going to be the #1 priority and we have been the worst defensive team since he said that...

The ONLY thing this FO has done, is maintain Cap flex, and to some of you thats a huge accomplishment, well we shall see come draft day..

BTW, when does win loss matter?

Fantastic to me would be signing KD and Irving, and finding a trade for AD, then I would walk arounD with a "i LOVE steve mills" TEE SHIRT

Mills has a long tenure with the Knicks and almost all of it sucked. The Isiah years sucked. When he replaced Grunwald he sucked. When he was with Phil he sucked. But he hasn’t sucked with Perry. It also is his first time in charge where the basketball people have autonomy. If your point is Mills has sucked, I agree. But I don’t think the Perry/Mills tandem has sucked. I think they have been thorough and effective in doing what they think will get the Knicks to a competitive, sustainable place.

Mills was not part of knicks in the Isiah era. He neither sucked or was good.
When he replaced Grunwald in Oct of 2013, Phil was being courted by December and was signed by March of 2014. Six months.
As GM, or what ever his role was under Phil, he was likely not involved in the basketball roster end.

Executives are not like athletes. We transpose a players statistics and think its to be expected going forward. Shooting %, turnovers, etc for a veteran player likely is expected when you obtain the player. An executive can change his thinking. A franchise can change its thought process.
Change the process you change the result. It’s logical. It’s might not succeed but it won’t be for the circumstances Rainman are using as past examples.
If one can’t see how this franchise has done this then its a loss as its part of the fun.
Ainge was criticized early in his rebuild and Hinkie lost his job in PHilly. No two are the same and I’m not saying we are out of the woods yet. I feel better about this franchise than I have in years regarding its upside. Is that because its so low? Perhaps. But I see kids playing instead of tired vets on their last legs. I see picks and cap space. Mistakes of the past are not relevant unless the contracts still linger. Some do, but thats it.

vice-president of Basketball and Player Development,[3] Mills then became Chief operating officer and Sports Business President of Madison Square Garden in 2003.[4] His duties at MSG included supervising day-to-day operations, including finances, business strategies of the NBA's New York Knicks, NHL's New York Rangers and the WNBA's New York Liberty. All sports related activities were under his jurisdiction, including boxing, college basketball and track & field.

This is the role best suited for him, this is what he went to princeton for and majored in. More and more I just feel like these guys are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

How do you state that DEFENSE will be the #1 focus then trade for Kanter, Mcdermott and mudiay, signed Mario, burke...They say one thing and then do another..

Why did the Knicks trade for Kanter and McDermott?

Because they caved into melo's demand and mills ego.

In your heart, do you really feel like we have one of the best FO's in the league or even top 10, do you feel like we have a top 10 coach?