ekstarks94 wrote:

Nalod wrote:When KP missed his exit meeting we assumed Our coach was being a dick, Melo was the “MalContent Whisperer” and it was not a good move, we sort of were kool with KP. The bike ride publicity thing he did on the upper west side the next deal was a telling sign. KP was immature.

We got rid of PHil and exiled Melo. Bought in a new GM to solidify the FO as it should be. The president is the financial guy and the GM sweats the players details and both work to right the franchise.

We gave KP the keys to the franchise. Coach Hornacek was likely told to build on the Latvian God and all was good. Team was over .500, Rookie Frank was young but we could see the promise. KP was an all star leading the team to 4 games over .500 about 30 games in. Then he fatigued and that can bring injury. Then the unthinkable.
KP instead of being depressed looks to create a documentary and then bolts to Spain. Knicks offer him financial security with some injury caveats like Embiid got. He passed, we to 10mil more in cap space and it all sounded good.
Booker has not lead PHX like a superstar (yet) and Markkennnannennnn has basically lost his season to injury.

Hindisight is wonderful. Jax for all his insanity was spot on instinctively regarding KP’s health and wanting to jump on a trade. I did not agree with that as my hopes were this kid was special. He might be on the court still, but off it I remain perplexed. He is no god. Mooby was a false prophet. Nalod starphuched his hopes on KP.

Now that was are seeing what happened and are “Woke”, my opinion this current front office did mostly act reasonable and could do little else to make him happy. KP’s antics since the first of the year was to devalue himself making it easier to trade to his preferred landing spot. Mills and Perry were ahead of Janis and him. No doubt it would have been better to send him to Detroit or CLeveland but KP even if it was not on his list landed in a good situation in Dallas. Cube is a smart owner and I think will make it work. While “Good riddance” and any KP failure makes us look better the real test of time is how we fair. I don’t care about Dallas. Yes, If KP becomes what we had hoped it will hurt.

The future will no doubt resolve the final grade. We had fans here lambasting the franchise and accusing them of being inept on this issue as it has been over many admisnistrations before them. Even Dolan was blamed. IN a few short days in retrospect my hopes for this admin was never based on its past, but for its future. Its calming to hire someone from the SAS tree and be patient but not when you have Mills (former MSG Pres before coming back) and Dolan lurking. Perry has a good reputation but was never top dog at a franchise and was assistant to Orlando idiot.
In this case it appears we were decisive and made the right call. WE cut down KP before he could some how gain more leverage at the teams future expense.

I transfer my hope to DSjr and all our FizKids. The chance at Zion and Barret all with Big historical cap space. 7 no. 1 picks in 5 years. Big changes are still coming! The chess game will continue.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/10/porzingis-depreciating-value-left-dallas-deal-as-knicks-top-option/

Great post..

Funny thing is that if Phil had projected more stability in the FO although trading KP would have been an unpopular move...Phil would have had the cred to withstand the public criticism and trading him would not have been viewed as sacrilegious..

Public criticism is what got Phil fired. So he was never Teflon Don. ESPN and their cronies lead a massive lynch mob. While Phil made some poor decisions you can say all the previous GMs and even this current GM all have red on their ledger.

Phil got a raw deal.

Vmart wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Nalod wrote:When KP missed his exit meeting we assumed Our coach was being a dick, Melo was the “MalContent Whisperer” and it was not a good move, we sort of were kool with KP. The bike ride publicity thing he did on the upper west side the next deal was a telling sign. KP was immature.

We got rid of PHil and exiled Melo. Bought in a new GM to solidify the FO as it should be. The president is the financial guy and the GM sweats the players details and both work to right the franchise.

We gave KP the keys to the franchise. Coach Hornacek was likely told to build on the Latvian God and all was good. Team was over .500, Rookie Frank was young but we could see the promise. KP was an all star leading the team to 4 games over .500 about 30 games in. Then he fatigued and that can bring injury. Then the unthinkable.
KP instead of being depressed looks to create a documentary and then bolts to Spain. Knicks offer him financial security with some injury caveats like Embiid got. He passed, we to 10mil more in cap space and it all sounded good.
Booker has not lead PHX like a superstar (yet) and Markkennnannennnn has basically lost his season to injury.

Hindisight is wonderful. Jax for all his insanity was spot on instinctively regarding KP’s health and wanting to jump on a trade. I did not agree with that as my hopes were this kid was special. He might be on the court still, but off it I remain perplexed. He is no god. Mooby was a false prophet. Nalod starphuched his hopes on KP.

Now that was are seeing what happened and are “Woke”, my opinion this current front office did mostly act reasonable and could do little else to make him happy. KP’s antics since the first of the year was to devalue himself making it easier to trade to his preferred landing spot. Mills and Perry were ahead of Janis and him. No doubt it would have been better to send him to Detroit or CLeveland but KP even if it was not on his list landed in a good situation in Dallas. Cube is a smart owner and I think will make it work. While “Good riddance” and any KP failure makes us look better the real test of time is how we fair. I don’t care about Dallas. Yes, If KP becomes what we had hoped it will hurt.

The future will no doubt resolve the final grade. We had fans here lambasting the franchise and accusing them of being inept on this issue as it has been over many admisnistrations before them. Even Dolan was blamed. IN a few short days in retrospect my hopes for this admin was never based on its past, but for its future. Its calming to hire someone from the SAS tree and be patient but not when you have Mills (former MSG Pres before coming back) and Dolan lurking. Perry has a good reputation but was never top dog at a franchise and was assistant to Orlando idiot.
In this case it appears we were decisive and made the right call. WE cut down KP before he could some how gain more leverage at the teams future expense.

I transfer my hope to DSjr and all our FizKids. The chance at Zion and Barret all with Big historical cap space. 7 no. 1 picks in 5 years. Big changes are still coming! The chess game will continue.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/10/porzingis-depreciating-value-left-dallas-deal-as-knicks-top-option/

Great post..

Funny thing is that if Phil had projected more stability in the FO although trading KP would have been an unpopular move...Phil would have had the cred to withstand the public criticism and trading him would not have been viewed as sacrilegious..

Public criticism is what got Phil fired. So he was never Teflon Don. ESPN and their cronies lead a massive lynch mob. While Phil made some poor decisions you can say all the previous GMs and even this current GM all have red on their ledger.

Phil got a raw deal.

While I would never understand wtf he was thinking with the Noah signing. He came into a situation where the Knicks had 1 first round draft pick over the next 3 seasons and were capped out until the following season with bad contracts. While also having to deal with an expiring Carmelo Anthony. Phil took the hit for the mistakes of the previous regime. But Phil's relationship with Melo and the media will make people hold a blind eye and pile all that on him. Politics.

He made some poor decisions but I hear on the radio by radio personalities all the time how he "set the team back 5 years" or some nonsense like that. I hear lazy false narratives on a daily basis. Like the drafting of Frank over Smith as it was only Phil who pushed for Frank while everyone else wanted Smith. But because Phil was a tyrant and the boss, he did what he wanted to do. Yet Phil confides in Gaines and Gaines is the one who pushed for him to draft KP. With KP being a hit there is no reason for Phil not to trust Gaines again.

With all that said Phil had to go, to much negative attention was being acquired. The politics of the situation. Phil would have had to made moves that immediately made the Knicks a quality team or he would get torn down. With a new GM time becomes afforded.

Phil left Mills enough cap space to sign a Hardaway level player, a valuable piece in KP, and all the picks going forward. On the negative side contracts of Melo, Noah, Lee. So while not clean a way better situation that what he came into. Phil's record was brought up against him during his tenure but as you can see that was just more politics. Perry imo has been doing an amazing job yet the losing records maintain which is why going by record just politics.

This trade now that the "truth has come out" shows Perry's chops. The fact he sensed KPs feelings based on his actions and was extremely pro active creating contingency plans with the stones to act swiftly. Highly impressive. The fact that he also has shown the patience with Frank's development. He has proven to be a strong big picture guy and not a band aid trying to keep and save my job type guy with style over substance.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Vmart wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Nalod wrote:When KP missed his exit meeting we assumed Our coach was being a dick, Melo was the “MalContent Whisperer” and it was not a good move, we sort of were kool with KP. The bike ride publicity thing he did on the upper west side the next deal was a telling sign. KP was immature.

We got rid of PHil and exiled Melo. Bought in a new GM to solidify the FO as it should be. The president is the financial guy and the GM sweats the players details and both work to right the franchise.

We gave KP the keys to the franchise. Coach Hornacek was likely told to build on the Latvian God and all was good. Team was over .500, Rookie Frank was young but we could see the promise. KP was an all star leading the team to 4 games over .500 about 30 games in. Then he fatigued and that can bring injury. Then the unthinkable.
KP instead of being depressed looks to create a documentary and then bolts to Spain. Knicks offer him financial security with some injury caveats like Embiid got. He passed, we to 10mil more in cap space and it all sounded good.
Booker has not lead PHX like a superstar (yet) and Markkennnannennnn has basically lost his season to injury.

Hindisight is wonderful. Jax for all his insanity was spot on instinctively regarding KP’s health and wanting to jump on a trade. I did not agree with that as my hopes were this kid was special. He might be on the court still, but off it I remain perplexed. He is no god. Mooby was a false prophet. Nalod starphuched his hopes on KP.

Now that was are seeing what happened and are “Woke”, my opinion this current front office did mostly act reasonable and could do little else to make him happy. KP’s antics since the first of the year was to devalue himself making it easier to trade to his preferred landing spot. Mills and Perry were ahead of Janis and him. No doubt it would have been better to send him to Detroit or CLeveland but KP even if it was not on his list landed in a good situation in Dallas. Cube is a smart owner and I think will make it work. While “Good riddance” and any KP failure makes us look better the real test of time is how we fair. I don’t care about Dallas. Yes, If KP becomes what we had hoped it will hurt.

The future will no doubt resolve the final grade. We had fans here lambasting the franchise and accusing them of being inept on this issue as it has been over many admisnistrations before them. Even Dolan was blamed. IN a few short days in retrospect my hopes for this admin was never based on its past, but for its future. Its calming to hire someone from the SAS tree and be patient but not when you have Mills (former MSG Pres before coming back) and Dolan lurking. Perry has a good reputation but was never top dog at a franchise and was assistant to Orlando idiot.
In this case it appears we were decisive and made the right call. WE cut down KP before he could some how gain more leverage at the teams future expense.

I transfer my hope to DSjr and all our FizKids. The chance at Zion and Barret all with Big historical cap space. 7 no. 1 picks in 5 years. Big changes are still coming! The chess game will continue.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/10/porzingis-depreciating-value-left-dallas-deal-as-knicks-top-option/

Great post..

Funny thing is that if Phil had projected more stability in the FO although trading KP would have been an unpopular move...Phil would have had the cred to withstand the public criticism and trading him would not have been viewed as sacrilegious..

Public criticism is what got Phil fired. So he was never Teflon Don. ESPN and their cronies lead a massive lynch mob. While Phil made some poor decisions you can say all the previous GMs and even this current GM all have red on their ledger.

Phil got a raw deal.

While I would never understand wtf he was thinking with the Noah signing. He came into a situation where the Knicks had 1 first round draft pick over the next 3 seasons and were capped out until the following season with bad contracts. While also having to deal with an expiring Carmelo Anthony. Phil took the hit for the mistakes of the previous regime. But Phil's relationship with Melo and the media will make people hold a blind eye and pile all that on him. Politics.

He made some poor decisions but I hear on the radio by radio personalities all the time how he "set the team back 5 years" or some nonsense like that. I hear lazy false narratives on a daily basis. Like the drafting of Frank over Smith as it was only Phil who pushed for Frank while everyone else wanted Smith. But because Phil was a tyrant and the boss, he did what he wanted to do. Yet Phil confides in Gaines and Gaines is the one who pushed for him to draft KP. With KP being a hit there is no reason for Phil not to trust Gaines again.

With all that said Phil had to go, to much negative attention was being acquired. The politics of the situation. Phil would have had to made moves that immediately made the Knicks a quality team or he would get torn down. With a new GM time becomes afforded.

Phil left Mills enough cap space to sign a Hardaway level player, a valuable piece in KP, and all the picks going forward. On the negative side contracts of Melo, Noah, Lee. So while not clean a way better situation that what he came into. Phil's record was brought up against him during his tenure but as you can see that was just more politics. Perry imo has been doing an amazing job yet the losing records maintain which is why going by record just politics.

This trade now that the "truth has come out" shows Perry's chops. The fact he sensed KPs feelings based on his actions and was extremely pro active creating contingency plans with the stones to act swiftly. Highly impressive. The fact that he also has shown the patience with Frank's development. He has proven to be a strong big picture guy and not a band aid trying to keep and save my job type guy with style over substance.

Agree...100% Perry is a ninja....because had it fully got out and had a chance to marinate that KP was returning back to Spain to rehab and wait for a trade...we would have gotten 25-50 cents on the dollar. H made a lightening quick move that looked as a hit the panic button move, but news started to trickle out it became clear. I feel good about the FO right now....and that is hard for me to believe given that we are 10-45, just traded our franchise player, etc, etc...but I think we are in a good spot right now. Free agency will be the next big test....whether we strike out or hit it big...."no more paying mediocre players as stars"...

And to disagree with the sentiment in the article, I think the Knicks got as much value as was ever offered. Booker & a swap of picks, Celts bunch of picks would have been nice, but we netted DSjr, 2 picks and we cleared cap tremendously.

And we still have DeAndre Jordan who many of us have clamored for for years.

I don't think there was a better deal out there - I'd also commend our FO for making this move at the perfect time - they didn't wait for the summer, they didn't try to get a better deal. They acted at the best time.

SO AWESOME for once!

And it reinforces my belief that Fizdale is the best coach we've had since Riley.

I hope we can land the top pick and really get lucky for once - because having cap space isn't enough, and even if we land KD, he needs help and we need depth.

franco12 wrote:I'd like an apology here on the board from everyone who ever criticized me for broaching the topic of trading KP.

And to disagree with the sentiment in the article, I think the Knicks got as much value as was ever offered. Booker & a swap of picks, Celts bunch of picks would have been nice, but we netted DSjr, 2 picks and we cleared cap tremendously.

And we still have DeAndre Jordan who many of us have clamored for for years.

I don't think there was a better deal out there - I'd also commend our FO for making this move at the perfect time - they didn't wait for the summer, they didn't try to get a better deal. They acted at the best time.

SO AWESOME for once!

And it reinforces my belief that Fizdale is the best coach we've had since Riley.

I hope we can land the top pick and really get lucky for once - because having cap space isn't enough, and even if we land KD, he needs help and we need depth.

I apologize if I ever was critical and encroached on your topical brilliance in manner both respectful or via sarcasm.

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:I'd like an apology here on the board from everyone who ever criticized me for broaching the topic of trading KP.

And to disagree with the sentiment in the article, I think the Knicks got as much value as was ever offered. Booker & a swap of picks, Celts bunch of picks would have been nice, but we netted DSjr, 2 picks and we cleared cap tremendously.

And we still have DeAndre Jordan who many of us have clamored for for years.

I don't think there was a better deal out there - I'd also commend our FO for making this move at the perfect time - they didn't wait for the summer, they didn't try to get a better deal. They acted at the best time.

SO AWESOME for once!

And it reinforces my belief that Fizdale is the best coach we've had since Riley.

I hope we can land the top pick and really get lucky for once - because having cap space isn't enough, and even if we land KD, he needs help and we need depth.

I apologize if I ever was critical and encroached on your topical brilliance in manner both respectful or via sarcasm.

HA! Although, I don't think even ever been brilliant!

Who could have ever seen an opportunity like the one the Knicks were able to pull off?

Obviously it will take a few years to sort this out. We love to "Letter grade the trade" but fact is KP signs a max deal and we wince when his tibia protrudes thru his skin that moment we win the deal. If KP becomes Drago and is the new Aryan posterchild for the world to gasp in reverence than we lose.
If Smith Becomes an allstar and we have Kawhi, Boogie, Knox and our glue frank showered by confetti down the canyon of heroes then we win.
My hope is KP and the knicks meet in the finals for few years. We need a real rival/villain!!!

VCoug wrote:Man, there's so much Phil apologism since the KP trade and it's bull****. Phil made a bunch of terrible win-now moves because making the playoffs as an 8th seed and ****ing triangle magic was going to turn us into a contender. Meanwhile, those moves which were supposed to lead us to the promised land put our current rebuild behind by at least 4 years and led us to seasons of 17, 32, 31, and 29 wins. Phil "knew" that KP was injury prone and his body couldn't stand up to the rigors of the NBA but he's the one who ****ing drafted him. He also "knew" that Melo was terrible and didn't fit in with what he wanted to do but he's the one who resigned Melo to a huge deal and gave him a ****ing no-trade clause. Phil was ****ing terrible and we should all be glad he's gone. He was as bad as any other team pres we've had this millennium except he didn't trade any future 1st round picks (he did trade future 2nd round picks including this year's!), and by all reports, that's because Dolan won't let anyone trade 1st round picks anymore.

VCoug wrote:Man, there's so much Phil apologism since the KP trade and it's bull****. Phil made a bunch of terrible win-now moves because making the playoffs as an 8th seed and ****ing triangle magic was going to turn us into a contender. Meanwhile, those moves which were supposed to lead us to the promised land put our current rebuild behind by at least 4 years and led us to seasons of 17, 32, 31, and 29 wins. Phil "knew" that KP was injury prone and his body couldn't stand up to the rigors of the NBA but he's the one who ****ing drafted him. He also "knew" that Melo was terrible and didn't fit in with what he wanted to do but he's the one who resigned Melo to a huge deal and gave him a ****ing no-trade clause. Phil was ****ing terrible and we should all be glad he's gone. He was as bad as any other team pres we've had this millennium except he didn't trade any future 1st round picks (he did trade future 2nd round picks including this year's!), and by all reports, that's because Dolan won't let anyone trade 1st round picks anymore.

Im trying to stay focused on KP as a subject, not Phils whole knick Tenure.
The point was if Phil was to have traded him it just turned out to be the right thing in hindsight.
KP value after KAT was better than OKA4 and Russell. After that the draft really dropped.
Mario, Willie cauly stein then Mudiay were the next three.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_NBA_draft