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Kemba Walker: Yay or Nay?
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smackeddog
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2/8/2019  11:30 AM

I'm really not sure about Kyrie coming here- he could easily decide to stay in Boston, and failing that they could trade for AD to make it more appealing (his issues seem to stem with the young players- if Ainge gets rid of the for AD, is he really going to walk away and going the Knicks who's players are even younger?).

A lot of people have said they only want to spend the money on the top FA's and not second tier players like Kemba Walker, but if it comes down to it (and Irving stays in Boston and KD wants to come here but wants a big FA to come with him, is Kemba Walker worth maxing out? Is he a good player? (I honestly haven't watched him much over the years)- can he play next to KP? Or would you rather avoid him at all costs and instead trade for AD (Knox, 1st, plus more)?

Would you rather have: Kemba, KD, Zion/Barret, Knox, DSJ, Mitch and all our picks; or KD, AD and DSJ? Or would you prefer to sign KD and then just add some role players?

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homeskillitprigioni
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2/8/2019  11:47 AM
I think Kemba's worth it if we get an alpha max guy to pair with him like AD, KD, or Kawhi. I think he could be the #2 on a championship team, just not a #1.

That part you put about KD and some role players...that's not happening. That's what you also have to factor in with this, none of those alpha max guys are coming here without a 2nd guy. There's way too many options for them not to do that. A huge part of the selling point to a guy like KD or for AD to commit to a max is going to be that we'll also get Kyrie or Kemba.

I think their #1 target will be KD so they don't have to trade anyone for that #1 guy but I just don't see it happening. You never know what can happen but there hasn't really been much talk about Kawhi being interested in NY. It's always been about LA for him and if he doesn't go there, it seems like he's enjoying Toronto as most players do when they play there. I think AD is going to be our best shot.

We'll have to trade some assets for him but for me getting a guy like that is always worth it, especially at his age. That would also put us in a great spot to land Kyrie or Kemba which we'd probably have to do anyways.

So short story long...I'm in on Kemba if we're getting one of the top 3.

SupremeCommander
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2/8/2019  11:55 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2019  11:55 AM
My answer is conditional. If we can't get KD or Kyrie (or similar) then Kemba is the guy I would target. I know everyone thinks he's a weight class below the other fish and while that may be true, Kemba has ALWAYS excelled at MSG. There are certain guys that aren't right for NYC. Well, Kemba is right when it comes to that. In 11 Rings Phil talked about how the Knicks built their championship teams and that was by aquiting guys that played well in college tournaments at MSG. That's how we got Clyde. I think for most sports that's a foolish strategy but I don't think so when it comes to the bright lights of MSG
Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
jskinny35
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2/8/2019  12:00 PM
I'd pass - not a Kemba fan and too small (also not a fan of Kyrie who's much better). You can talk about him fitting next to another max star but that doesn't change the fact that he's not a max guy. Max guys play both sides of the ball, can carry a team on a regular basis, don't have injury history and should be in the top 2-3 at their position. There are at least 5-7 points that are clearly better then Kemba. He's a good player - a B+ player though...
homeskillitprigioni
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2/8/2019  12:06 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:My answer is conditional. If we can't get KD or Kyrie (or similar) then Kemba is the guy I would target. I know everyone thinks he's a weight class below the other fish and while that may be true, Kemba has ALWAYS excelled at MSG. There are certain guys that aren't right for NYC. Well, Kemba is right when it comes to that. In 11 Rings Phil talked about how the Knicks built their championship teams and that was by aquiting guys that played well in college tournaments at MSG. That's how we got Clyde. I think for most sports that's a foolish strategy but I don't think so when it comes to the bright lights of MSG

That's fair and even though I hate Kemba for being a UConn guy because I'm a Cuse fan...I can't argue he'd be a great fit here and I do think it would even elevate his game a little.

My only issue is if we don't get a true #1 guy, we're in kind of a strange place with that. We'd have to really hope our potential top 3 pick ends up becoming one in the next couple of years or that we get someone in FA in that time to really have that make sense.

homeskillitprigioni
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2/8/2019  12:09 PM
jskinny35 wrote:I'd pass - not a Kemba fan and too small (also not a fan of Kyrie who's much better). You can talk about him fitting next to another max star but that doesn't change the fact that he's not a max guy. Max guys play both sides of the ball, can carry a team on a regular basis, don't have injury history and should be in the top 2-3 at their position. There are at least 5-7 points that are clearly better then Kemba. He's a good player - a B+ player though...


I see that a little bit differently. I think if you have a true #1 guy, it can make sense to sign a true #2 to a max. In it of itself, I would say Kemba's probably borderline for a max, probably even leaning more towards not. But in the right situation I think he is and if we get one of KD/AD/Kawhi, it would be.

smackeddog
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2/8/2019  12:20 PM
homeskillitprigioni wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:I'd pass - not a Kemba fan and too small (also not a fan of Kyrie who's much better). You can talk about him fitting next to another max star but that doesn't change the fact that he's not a max guy. Max guys play both sides of the ball, can carry a team on a regular basis, don't have injury history and should be in the top 2-3 at their position. There are at least 5-7 points that are clearly better then Kemba. He's a good player - a B+ player though...


I see that a little bit differently. I think if you have a true #1 guy, it can make sense to sign a true #2 to a max. In it of itself, I would say Kemba's probably borderline for a max, probably even leaning more towards not. But in the right situation I think he is and if we get one of KD/AD/Kawhi, it would be.

That's where I'm at- a lot of people said don't get Kemba if you miss out on the big names, but I think if you get one of the big names, he's not too bad to get as the 2nd- especially when I don't get what the alternative would be- doubt KD would want to be here by himself.

knicks1248
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2/8/2019  12:25 PM
IF DSJ finishes out the yr strong, do you really target another PG, especially for max $$$.

Kemba hasn't taking his team anywhere

I certainly don't want my back court jacking up 65% of the shots

ES
TripleThreat
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2/8/2019  12:27 PM
smackeddog wrote:.....is Kemba Walker worth maxing out? Is he a good player? (I honestly haven't watched him much over the years)- can he play next to KP? Or would you rather avoid him at all costs and instead trade for AD (Knox, 1st, plus more)?


Walker has gotten better every year he's been in the league. Some of it shows up on the stat sheet, some does not. He's a very hard worker, even against a scale of professional athletes ( everyone, barring some bull**** like Eddy Curry and his booze, works really ****ing hard)

The Knicks have no asset base to trade for Anthony Davis. Even if they won the draft lottery, they don't have enough. I don't know where any of these AD trade scenarios are coming from, because Zinger was the only pull for NO and that was only if Zinger would sign an extension and predictably he would not.

If the Knicks could trade for AD ( for sake of conversation here), or get Irving or Durant, none of them are signing up to play with Kemba Walker. Those dudes want to win rings and you can't win a ring with Walker as a max player on the roster.

If the goal is to have a fun team that just makes the playoffs and keeps the fans entertained, then nothing wrong with Walker. But you have to know you are jumping on the league treadmill for the next four years ( never quite bad enough to get a high lottery pick, never good enough to push through past the 1st round of the playoffs)

If the goal is to win a ring, then you need to draft the NEXT Walker, not sign him to a max deal, and just keep drafting well period in a stacked period of seasons in a row.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
smackeddog
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2/8/2019  12:43 PM
knicks1248 wrote:IF DSJ finishes out the yr strong, do you really target another PG, especially for max $$$.

Kemba hasn't taking his team anywhere

I certainly don't want my back court jacking up 65% of the shots

The problem is, if we land KD and don't get Kyrie, there is no way we're sitting on that cap space for 2 years (2020 FA crop is trash)- we will either go for Kemba, or we'll try and trade for AD, in which case you'd have to outbid the Celtics (So that would cost at least Knox, this years top pick and the Mavs pick).

Another scenario could be KD decides not to come, so instead we deal for AD and sign Kyrie (who has less incentive to stay with Boston if they don't land AD). So would you rather have:

AD, Kyrie and not much else

KD, Kyrie, Knox, the player we draft this year, DSJ, Frank, Mitch, Trier and all our future picks

KD, Kemba, Knox, the player we draft this year, DSJ, Frank, Mitch, Trier and all our future picks

KD, keep space/ one year deals, the player we draft this year, DSJ, Frank, Mitch, Trier and all our future picks

AD, KD and not much else

Really, I don't want to trade for AD at all, because it leaves our team too thin. If we do get KD I'd rather sign Kemba if we miss out on Kyrie rather than just keep the space. If we miss out on KD I'd rather just keep the space and do a long, slow rebuild.

smackeddog
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2/8/2019  12:48 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
smackeddog wrote:.....is Kemba Walker worth maxing out? Is he a good player? (I honestly haven't watched him much over the years)- can he play next to KP? Or would you rather avoid him at all costs and instead trade for AD (Knox, 1st, plus more)?

The Knicks have no asset base to trade for Anthony Davis. Even if they won the draft lottery, they don't have enough. I don't know where any of these AD trade scenarios are coming from, because Zinger was the only pull for NO and that was only if Zinger would sign an extension and predictably he would not.

I'd disagree with you there (and I DON'T want to trade for AD)- Celtics rumored offering will likely be: Tatum, Smart, Al Horford, 2-3 picks. I think Knox, Zion + 2-3 picks (thanks to the Cavs ones) match/beat that. Definitely wouldn't do it though.

BigDaddyG
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2/8/2019  12:50 PM
smackeddog wrote:
homeskillitprigioni wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:I'd pass - not a Kemba fan and too small (also not a fan of Kyrie who's much better). You can talk about him fitting next to another max star but that doesn't change the fact that he's not a max guy. Max guys play both sides of the ball, can carry a team on a regular basis, don't have injury history and should be in the top 2-3 at their position. There are at least 5-7 points that are clearly better then Kemba. He's a good player - a B+ player though...


I see that a little bit differently. I think if you have a true #1 guy, it can make sense to sign a true #2 to a max. In it of itself, I would say Kemba's probably borderline for a max, probably even leaning more towards not. But in the right situation I think he is and if we get one of KD/AD/Kawhi, it would be.

That's where I'm at- a lot of people said don't get Kemba if you miss out on the big names, but I think if you get one of the big names, he's not too bad to get as the 2nd- especially when I don't get what the alternative would be- doubt KD would want to be here by himself.


I'd probably pass, if KD doesn't come. Guards are important, but it's harder for a small guy to put a team on his back if the other pieces aren't in place. Kemba is a step below the top points. Lilliard has listed us as a potential destination in the past. I'd rather keep the space and hold off for someone like him. Plus, we could always use the space to collect more assets.
I probably sign him if it's the difference between KD coming or not.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
homeskillitprigioni
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2/8/2019  12:55 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
smackeddog wrote:.....is Kemba Walker worth maxing out? Is he a good player? (I honestly haven't watched him much over the years)- can he play next to KP? Or would you rather avoid him at all costs and instead trade for AD (Knox, 1st, plus more)?


Walker has gotten better every year he's been in the league. Some of it shows up on the stat sheet, some does not. He's a very hard worker, even against a scale of professional athletes ( everyone, barring some bull**** like Eddy Curry and his booze, works really ****ing hard)

The Knicks have no asset base to trade for Anthony Davis. Even if they won the draft lottery, they don't have enough. I don't know where any of these AD trade scenarios are coming from, because Zinger was the only pull for NO and that was only if Zinger would sign an extension and predictably he would not.

If the Knicks could trade for AD ( for sake of conversation here), or get Irving or Durant, none of them are signing up to play with Kemba Walker. Those dudes want to win rings and you can't win a ring with Walker as a max player on the roster.

If the goal is to have a fun team that just makes the playoffs and keeps the fans entertained, then nothing wrong with Walker. But you have to know you are jumping on the league treadmill for the next four years ( never quite bad enough to get a high lottery pick, never good enough to push through past the 1st round of the playoffs)

If the goal is to win a ring, then you need to draft the NEXT Walker, not sign him to a max deal, and just keep drafting well period in a stacked period of seasons in a row.

I don't think that part is true that we don't have the asset base for AD. The best offer they've gotten so far is a pupu platter from the Lakers.

If the Celts are willing to deal Tatum, I agree that we likely won't have a centerpiece better than that. But the Celts are only going to do that if AD is willing to sign the max with them, which right now he's not. If we do have a top 3 pick, that's a way more valuable asset than anyone on AD's list has to offer. I'd deal it if it's a non-Zion pick.

I do disagree that you can't win a ring with Kemba as your 2nd max. I think he's good enough to do that if you have a true top player, which AD is.

homeskillitprigioni
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2/8/2019  1:02 PM
smackeddog wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:IF DSJ finishes out the yr strong, do you really target another PG, especially for max $$$.

Kemba hasn't taking his team anywhere

I certainly don't want my back court jacking up 65% of the shots

The problem is, if we land KD and don't get Kyrie, there is no way we're sitting on that cap space for 2 years (2020 FA crop is trash)- we will either go for Kemba, or we'll try and trade for AD, in which case you'd have to outbid the Celtics (So that would cost at least Knox, this years top pick and the Mavs pick).

Another scenario could be KD decides not to come, so instead we deal for AD and sign Kyrie (who has less incentive to stay with Boston if they don't land AD). So would you rather have:

AD, Kyrie and not much else

KD, Kyrie, Knox, the player we draft this year, DSJ, Frank, Mitch, Trier and all our future picks

KD, Kemba, Knox, the player we draft this year, DSJ, Frank, Mitch, Trier and all our future picks

KD, keep space/ one year deals, the player we draft this year, DSJ, Frank, Mitch, Trier and all our future picks

AD, KD and not much else

Really, I don't want to trade for AD at all, because it leaves our team too thin. If we do get KD I'd rather sign Kemba if we miss out on Kyrie rather than just keep the space. If we miss out on KD I'd rather just keep the space and do a long, slow rebuild.

The truth is that group of DSJ, Frank, Mitch, and Trier still count as having "not much else". Those are all replaceable, dime a dozen guys. Knox could be more but he's too raw to tell yet. None of them alters this kind of franchise-changing conversation for me though.

The big thing we'd lose in the AD pick is that potential top 3 pick. But if it's not the #1 pick, I'm all on in dealing it in a trade for AD. It is incredibly tough to win championships in this league without a top 5 or most of the time a top 3 player. It rarely happens. You have to jump at the chance when it does, especially when he's like 25 or 26 or whatever he is. The age makes me want him over KD even if it costs us assets. He's also a guy that's great friends with Kyrie and I'm sure someone Kemba wouldn't mind playing with.

dacash
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2/8/2019  1:15 PM
How much would he be worth? Not a full maximum but 25 or so maybe if kd gets 38 and he gets 25 that's 63 you'd have about ten to get Jordan, cause if we max out Kyrie and KD we have nothing for a bench just a bunch of talentedbut raw youths. D Jordan kemba and kd or kawaii( we ho might be cheaper still) is Nice add a vet shooter like shabalosa and heck vonleh it's a nice 5.
The main problem I see is not who to max out but if we wNt two who is the bench
Chandler
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2/8/2019  1:25 PM
smackeddog wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
smackeddog wrote:.....is Kemba Walker worth maxing out? Is he a good player? (I honestly haven't watched him much over the years)- can he play next to KP? Or would you rather avoid him at all costs and instead trade for AD (Knox, 1st, plus more)?

The Knicks have no asset base to trade for Anthony Davis. Even if they won the draft lottery, they don't have enough. I don't know where any of these AD trade scenarios are coming from, because Zinger was the only pull for NO and that was only if Zinger would sign an extension and predictably he would not.

I'd disagree with you there (and I DON'T want to trade for AD)- Celtics rumored offering will likely be: Tatum, Smart, Al Horford, 2-3 picks. I think Knox, Zion + 2-3 picks (thanks to the Cavs ones) match/beat that. Definitely wouldn't do it though.

I disagree too. Pels want quality not quantity. They might like a 1 or 2 better than Tatum headlining (and a max that much closer on the horizon). Depends how long their rebuild runway is

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year. Martin was right; I was wrong. :-(
smackeddog
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2/8/2019  1:27 PM
dacash wrote:How much would he be worth? Not a full maximum but 25 or so maybe if kd gets 38 and he gets 25 that's 63 you'd have about ten to get Jordan, cause if we max out Kyrie and KD we have nothing for a bench just a bunch of talentedbut raw youths. D Jordan kemba and kd or kawaii( we ho might be cheaper still) is Nice add a vet shooter like shabalosa and heck vonleh it's a nice 5.
The main problem I see is not who to max out but if we wNt two who is the bench

Talented but raw youths is the best you can have due to the salary cap- the alternative is minimum contract vets

Chandler
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2/8/2019  1:27 PM
I would pass on Kemba for anything remotely in the vicinity of max. Too small, too expensive

Id rather spend on wings (or AD) and pair them with one of our pgs or maybe Rondo or some other sub-max guy with game

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year. Martin was right; I was wrong. :-(
GustavBahler
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2/8/2019  1:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2019  1:57 PM
When KP was here, was in favor of Kemba coming to NY. KP is gone. DSJ just got here. Really hoping Perry/Mills dont max out a PG. Want to see Smith jr. get a legit chance to be a starter next season.
fitzfarm
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2/8/2019  3:07 PM
GustavBahler wrote:When KP was here, was in favor of Kemba coming to NY. KP is gone. DSJ just got here. Really hoping Perry/Mills dont max out a PG. Want to see Smith jr. get a legit chance to be a starter next season.

I agree, if smith finishes strong we should look at adding a forward or both forward positions.

My hope is

D jordan, Mitch
Durant, vonleh
Kawhi,Knox
Frank, trier
Smith JR, ja Morant

Kemba Walker: Yay or Nay?

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