Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

MS wrote:Kenny happens to be one of the best player development people in basketball. If your system is designed to maximize a players strengths I would say Kenny is showing himself to be the coach of the year.

Levertt, Spencer, DLO, Hollis Jefferson, Allen, Harris all seem to be getting better.

Fizdale, you can't say that anyone has shown tremendous progress. Robinson of late is starting to look good, but Frank hasn't shown you much of anything, Know is in and out and steps out of bounds or travels 2-3 times a game on basic moves, he has jerked everyone in and out of the rotation. They do need to put a few wins on the boards just to improve the moral of the team. The Kanter thing was a big distraction, you had Lee who was a professional thankfully, but he should have been playing over Lance Thomas and would have been fine for 20 minutes a night just to see if you could have boasted his trade value and show the young guys how important it is to play the right way.

Atkinson is now in his 3rd year, and most of the players you named have been with him all 3 yrs and in some cases 2. Fiz hasn't even had a full season yet and you want immediate results? With that said, regardless of how you feel about Mudiay, he is having his best season in the league as is Vonleh...

Lets give Fiz some time...BTW, how has the Griz looked since Fiz left that squad?

Let's give Phil sometime, let's give fisher sometime, let's give JH sometime..

You give any coach a talented roster and they can win, that's like super obvious.

But good coaches turn average players into above average, and above average into super stars(like mda did with nash and harden).

jerking guys like frank around, one minute he's a pg, who doesn't play fast enough, then he's a shooting guard who doesn't shoot enough, then he's a SF, who isn't strong enough..thats whats killing his development.

this isn't all on fiz either, you bring in guys for one yr then sit them because there not signed through next season

does 10 wins tell the whole story? Even Hardaway in his dallas presser was very complimentary about Fiz and not letting the losing get to them. Fiz told you and the rest of us that wins would not be the sole measure. Knox has pushed back on fans insinuating we are tanking on purpose. This team has fight in them.

You are not factoring that a lessor coach might have lost this team by now, and what you deem as not progress might be further behind by another. Perhaps the team would be publically frustrated and humiliated instead of united and purposeful.
Your reasoning is a good coach takes it and makes it better. Maybe 5 wins would be the benchmark and Fiz has DOUBLED it!! I don't know. Knicks don't have to do this, they could have played Clee more, Lance, maybe made a few trades and been Nets like in two years. We have our own path set by goals and objectives. Not yours.

you really trying to justify this BS...for what?

67 yrs and no coach has every loss this many games in a row, or in a season, no FO has every put such a BS roster on the court in an arena that has people paying up to 6k for for 1 game, and $150 for nose bleed..No FO has ever had this many players begging to be traded, or waived..

what happens if we get the 5th pick and NO top FA

this team doesn't have an ounce of sense or fight, lowest IQ of any team i have ever seen..other than the bROwns

BORING

Team does have fight, what you meant was there hasn't been any wins to match. They do lose themselves from time to time and that's what you get when your team is young and inexperienced.

what would they be fighting for.

when you saddle your team with a bunch of one yr contracts, you basically get selfish play across the boards..and you can't develop anyone in an environment like that..

Your also trying to impress other coaches/GM's in the league with work ethic and improvement.
Mudiay is not out of the league if he keeps improving regardless of knicks financial and roster situation.
Im seeing Robinson improve. You don't? Might be one of our most important player going forward to play or as a trading chip.

What was Robinson's baseline?? He improved compared to what? He hasn't played organized ball in over a year and he clearly has enough talent to play good defense in the NBA but is it that he has improved on that can't be attributed to him being rusty in the first 25-30 games?

Why has Frank regressed?

Why had Dotson regressed?

Trier hasn't shown nothing remarkable outside of what he does

What is this major improvement you are seeing? And I don't give a flip about Mudiay.
I'll give you Vonleh though, as the only real progress that has future value to the Knicks.

Teams will cut their lottery busts so we can rehab them to almost NBA level scrubs and then they'll re-sign those guys again. That's the value statement of the Knicks?

You want player development hire the coach of the Westchester knicks as your HC. He is doing the real work developing complete scrubs into possible rotation players.

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I think Knicks1248 has stated the correct worst case scenario

5th pick and no major FAs(or if we win games 6th to tenth pick).
We would be stuck with Dennis Smith Jr and his empty stats as our central piece along with overpaying for second or third tier FAs. I think that is a real and scary possibility. And you can't blame Phil for it anymore.

If all you do in life is figure out the worst case scenarios and harp over and over again that they are possibilities and can't move off of that, life will be long and dull and kinda pathetic.

I haven't harped on this scenario, it's the first time I have verbalised it.
If you can't acknowledge the worst case scenario has a pretty high probability of happening, you are just signing up for continued disappointment. Which has basically defined the Knicks and the bulk of their fans for the last few decades.

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I think Knicks1248 has stated the correct worst case scenario

5th pick and no major FAs(or if we win games 6th to tenth pick).
We would be stuck with Dennis Smith Jr and his empty stats as our central piece along with overpaying for second or third tier FAs. I think that is a real and scary possibility. And you can't blame Phil for it anymore.

If all you do in life is figure out the worst case scenarios and harp over and over again that they are possibilities and can't move off of that, life will be long and dull and kinda pathetic.

I haven't harped on this scenario, it's the first time I have verbalised it.
If you can't acknowledge the worst case scenario has a pretty high probability of happening, you are just signing up for continued disappointment. Which has basically defined the Knicks and the bulk of their fans for the last few decades.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/knickfilmschool/status/1095328450385195009

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I think Knicks1248 has stated the correct worst case scenario

5th pick and no major FAs(or if we win games 6th to tenth pick).
We would be stuck with Dennis Smith Jr and his empty stats as our central piece along with overpaying for second or third tier FAs. I think that is a real and scary possibility. And you can't blame Phil for it anymore.

If all you do in life is figure out the worst case scenarios and harp over and over again that they are possibilities and can't move off of that, life will be long and dull and kinda pathetic.

I haven't harped on this scenario, it's the first time I have verbalised it.
If you can't acknowledge the worst case scenario has a pretty high probability of happening, you are just signing up for continued disappointment. Which has basically defined the Knicks and the bulk of their fans for the last few decades.

You have been verbalizing a lot of hate towards Smith. What if your worse case scenario happens? Do you think this front office doesn’t take a smart approach to having a ton of cap space and 7 first round picks in five years? I don’t think the offseason ends there. Maybe the Knicks absorb a contract for a high character vet for a first round pick and keep their flexibility. Maybe they chase a restricted free agent or two. Whatever happens, this front office has been thorough in their attempt to do what is best for the Knicks long term. The Knicks have a ton of flexibility. The teams future won’t be decided on draft night or on July 1st.

Bull****. Anyone who criticizes players you are obsessed with automatically becomes a hater. Dennis Smith Jr. has well documented character issues and takes waay too many shots outside the flow of the offense, calling him out for that isn't hating. And, yes i'l he glad of they put him on the first think smoking outta here in the offseason.

It's not my worst case scenario it's the Knicks worst case scenario. Given the Knicks history and the fact that their jobs depend on this offseason, I think it's more likely than not they'll both squander the picks and sign lower tier FAs to show "progress" assuming the worst case scenario does play out.

And before you robotically accuse me of more hating. I was the first person to point out that this FO has pulled off the closest thing to a full reset in the NBA. That's a great accomplishment but has nothing to do with building through the draft unless they actually keep those picks and execute a draft centric strategy. If they don't get their target FAs, I personally think they'll trade the picks and straddle us with more albatross contracts. I'l be happy to be proved wrong.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

MS wrote:Kenny happens to be one of the best player development people in basketball. If your system is designed to maximize a players strengths I would say Kenny is showing himself to be the coach of the year.

Levertt, Spencer, DLO, Hollis Jefferson, Allen, Harris all seem to be getting better.

Fizdale, you can't say that anyone has shown tremendous progress. Robinson of late is starting to look good, but Frank hasn't shown you much of anything, Know is in and out and steps out of bounds or travels 2-3 times a game on basic moves, he has jerked everyone in and out of the rotation. They do need to put a few wins on the boards just to improve the moral of the team. The Kanter thing was a big distraction, you had Lee who was a professional thankfully, but he should have been playing over Lance Thomas and would have been fine for 20 minutes a night just to see if you could have boasted his trade value and show the young guys how important it is to play the right way.

Atkinson is now in his 3rd year, and most of the players you named have been with him all 3 yrs and in some cases 2. Fiz hasn't even had a full season yet and you want immediate results? With that said, regardless of how you feel about Mudiay, he is having his best season in the league as is Vonleh...

Lets give Fiz some time...BTW, how has the Griz looked since Fiz left that squad?

Let's give Phil sometime, let's give fisher sometime, let's give JH sometime..

You give any coach a talented roster and they can win, that's like super obvious.

But good coaches turn average players into above average, and above average into super stars(like mda did with nash and harden).

jerking guys like frank around, one minute he's a pg, who doesn't play fast enough, then he's a shooting guard who doesn't shoot enough, then he's a SF, who isn't strong enough..thats whats killing his development.

this isn't all on fiz either, you bring in guys for one yr then sit them because there not signed through next season

does 10 wins tell the whole story? Even Hardaway in his dallas presser was very complimentary about Fiz and not letting the losing get to them. Fiz told you and the rest of us that wins would not be the sole measure. Knox has pushed back on fans insinuating we are tanking on purpose. This team has fight in them.

You are not factoring that a lessor coach might have lost this team by now, and what you deem as not progress might be further behind by another. Perhaps the team would be publically frustrated and humiliated instead of united and purposeful.
Your reasoning is a good coach takes it and makes it better. Maybe 5 wins would be the benchmark and Fiz has DOUBLED it!! I don't know. Knicks don't have to do this, they could have played Clee more, Lance, maybe made a few trades and been Nets like in two years. We have our own path set by goals and objectives. Not yours.

you really trying to justify this BS...for what?

67 yrs and no coach has every loss this many games in a row, or in a season, no FO has every put such a BS roster on the court in an arena that has people paying up to 6k for for 1 game, and $150 for nose bleed..No FO has ever had this many players begging to be traded, or waived..

what happens if we get the 5th pick and NO top FA

this team doesn't have an ounce of sense or fight, lowest IQ of any team i have ever seen..other than the bROwns

BORING

Team does have fight, what you meant was there hasn't been any wins to match. They do lose themselves from time to time and that's what you get when your team is young and inexperienced.

what would they be fighting for.

when you saddle your team with a bunch of one yr contracts, you basically get selfish play across the boards..and you can't develop anyone in an environment like that..

Your also trying to impress other coaches/GM's in the league with work ethic and improvement.
Mudiay is not out of the league if he keeps improving regardless of knicks financial and roster situation.
Im seeing Robinson improve. You don't? Might be one of our most important player going forward to play or as a trading chip.

You want player development hire the coach of the Westchester knicks as your HC. He is doing the real work developing complete scrubs into possible rotation players.

I too, have to give the head coach of the Westchester Knicks BIG-PROPS on his winning development team the past two seasons.
We can rename this Thread .. Fiz 17 losses going onto 18 losses !!!

The FO and assistants are as much to blame. There is a complete lack of focus from the players..What's the purpose of playing hard if your going to play dumb.

How are you suppose to develop players when you can't even establish a role for them, burke, mudiay, frank, kadeem, and now DSJ, who's your pg, who's your SG, who's your PF, who's your center, who's 6'th, 7th, 8th man. None of this has been establish..

To me this is a complete throw away season, with none of these guys a lock to be here..

so then next yr with 7 to 10 new players, we will be in our 7th straight rebuild yr

Chandler wrote:there was an article recently that Robinson's improvement on reducing fouls was a result of his personal trainer connecting him with Kerry Kittles (i.e., not the Fizz staff)

Again, I will keep fingers cross and there are positives, but there are also legitimate things of concern

......and outside coaching advice gets reinforced everyday in practice and in games. Who cares how or why, just that it happens.
Rainman is looking for results 50 games in and then assign blame. Development is a process not a result.
Fiz let Jenkins take a game winning shot. If he hits it is that "Development" or that he gave him the assignment and he learned from it.

Mitchell a raw rookie plays. That's a process. He is given minutes. He is not born with foul trouble tendencies. It is apparent. He then begins a process of identifying then remediation. He is improving. That's progress. We'll give him more plays and responsibilities. Is that development? What if we give him more and he by box score "regresses"? That our measure or the coaches. Same with Frank. What are we asking him to do this year over last? Where is he succeeding, regressiong, or stagnant? Is it he is not capable? Team dynamic? Wrong coaching?
Lets change the front office? This way Frank can have his third in three years? More coaches? Because Rainman says its all mills fault as GM as if Phil was never here?
Clee, Enes, Tim and KP are all freaking gone. That's 4 starters from last year. Burke. Gone.
In place are the kids.
Sugar coating this? Hell no, it doe not win games. We can't see the future. If I get up every day and do that right thing good things happen. start a new year by eating right, exercise, sleep. Live long. Then a bus hits me while im sipping a cappuccino in Rome.
Shyt happens. I survive. Gonna blame my regimine for a few months on that? Nope. Doc says im lucky to survive because I was in good shape. Good enough shape! Says my bones will mend better because of that. Said it was good I quit smoking years ago but had I never I might be in still better shape. Know what, I can't undo that now. Its part of my history and all I can do is what I do going forward. Making good small choices helps even when bad things happen. Knicks are making better choices. Not evident but new GM in season and a half an new coach. I have more faith in this FO than any in the last 20 years because of it. No guarantees for success. Rainman, what should another GM do at this moment going forward? Erase history?

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:there was an article recently that Robinson's improvement on reducing fouls was a result of his personal trainer connecting him with Kerry Kittles (i.e., not the Fizz staff)

Again, I will keep fingers cross and there are positives, but there are also legitimate things of concern

......and outside coaching advice gets reinforced everyday in practice and in games. Who cares how or why, just that it happens.
Rainman is looking for results 50 games in and then assign blame. Development is a process not a result.
Fiz let Jenkins take a game winning shot. If he hits it is that "Development" or that he gave him the assignment and he learned from it.

Mitchell a raw rookie plays. That's a process. He is given minutes. He is not born with foul trouble tendencies. It is apparent. He then begins a process of identifying then remediation. He is improving. That's progress. We'll give him more plays and responsibilities. Is that development? What if we give him more and he by box score "regresses"? That our measure or the coaches. Same with Frank. What are we asking him to do this year over last? Where is he succeeding, regressiong, or stagnant? Is it he is not capable? Team dynamic? Wrong coaching?
Lets change the front office? This way Frank can have his third in three years? More coaches? Because Rainman says its all mills fault as GM as if Phil was never here?
Clee, Enes, Tim and KP are all freaking gone. That's 4 starters from last year. Burke. Gone.
In place are the kids.
Sugar coating this? Hell no, it doe not win games. We can't see the future. If I get up every day and do that right thing good things happen. start a new year by eating right, exercise, sleep. Live long. Then a bus hits me while im sipping a cappuccino in Rome.
Shyt happens. I survive. Gonna blame my regimine for a few months on that? Nope. Doc says im lucky to survive because I was in good shape. Good enough shape! Says my bones will mend better because of that. Said it was good I quit smoking years ago but had I never I might be in still better shape. Know what, I can't undo that now. Its part of my history and all I can do is what I do going forward. Making good small choices helps even when bad things happen. Knicks are making better choices. Not evident but new GM in season and a half an new coach. I have more faith in this FO than any in the last 20 years because of it. No guarantees for success. Rainman, what should another GM do at this moment going forward? Erase history?

10 wins, no improvement, no plan, no core, no system, no roles, no progress...

Stop justifying Mills and perry's inept work, as if Phil is the blame, who was phil Jackson GM.

Who hired FIZ, who Hired Keith (fired from his last 3 coaching gigs)Smart..

Nolad, Mills will be fired, and you know it..He has one strike left..pay attention to DOLANS track record.

If they do a good job in june and july, i'll change my tune, but my sources have told me, DOLAN is ready to make a change(and you know i have been right about a lot sht)

wait lol, you have sources? They inside or outside your head?

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:there was an article recently that Robinson's improvement on reducing fouls was a result of his personal trainer connecting him with Kerry Kittles (i.e., not the Fizz staff)

Again, I will keep fingers cross and there are positives, but there are also legitimate things of concern

......and outside coaching advice gets reinforced everyday in practice and in games. Who cares how or why, just that it happens.
Rainman is looking for results 50 games in and then assign blame. Development is a process not a result.
Fiz let Jenkins take a game winning shot. If he hits it is that "Development" or that he gave him the assignment and he learned from it.

Mitchell a raw rookie plays. That's a process. He is given minutes. He is not born with foul trouble tendencies. It is apparent. He then begins a process of identifying then remediation. He is improving. That's progress. We'll give him more plays and responsibilities. Is that development? What if we give him more and he by box score "regresses"? That our measure or the coaches. Same with Frank. What are we asking him to do this year over last? Where is he succeeding, regressiong, or stagnant? Is it he is not capable? Team dynamic? Wrong coaching?
Lets change the front office? This way Frank can have his third in three years? More coaches? Because Rainman says its all mills fault as GM as if Phil was never here?
Clee, Enes, Tim and KP are all freaking gone. That's 4 starters from last year. Burke. Gone.
In place are the kids.
Sugar coating this? Hell no, it doe not win games. We can't see the future. If I get up every day and do that right thing good things happen. start a new year by eating right, exercise, sleep. Live long. Then a bus hits me while im sipping a cappuccino in Rome.
Shyt happens. I survive. Gonna blame my regimine for a few months on that? Nope. Doc says im lucky to survive because I was in good shape. Good enough shape! Says my bones will mend better because of that. Said it was good I quit smoking years ago but had I never I might be in still better shape. Know what, I can't undo that now. Its part of my history and all I can do is what I do going forward. Making good small choices helps even when bad things happen. Knicks are making better choices. Not evident but new GM in season and a half an new coach. I have more faith in this FO than any in the last 20 years because of it. No guarantees for success. Rainman, what should another GM do at this moment going forward? Erase history?

10 wins, no improvement, no plan, no core, no system, no roles, no progress...

Stop justifying Mills and perry's inept work, as if Phil is the blame, who was phil Jackson GM.

Who hired FIZ, who Hired Keith (fired from his last 3 coaching gigs)Smart..

Nolad, Mills will be fired, and you know it..He has one strike left..pay attention to DOLANS track record.

If they do a good job in june and july, i'll change my tune, but my sources have told me, DOLAN is ready to make a change(and you know i have been right about a lot sht)

wait lol, you have sources? They inside or outside your head?

that was very funny

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:there was an article recently that Robinson's improvement on reducing fouls was a result of his personal trainer connecting him with Kerry Kittles (i.e., not the Fizz staff)

Again, I will keep fingers cross and there are positives, but there are also legitimate things of concern

......and outside coaching advice gets reinforced everyday in practice and in games. Who cares how or why, just that it happens.
Rainman is looking for results 50 games in and then assign blame. Development is a process not a result.
Fiz let Jenkins take a game winning shot. If he hits it is that "Development" or that he gave him the assignment and he learned from it.

Mitchell a raw rookie plays. That's a process. He is given minutes. He is not born with foul trouble tendencies. It is apparent. He then begins a process of identifying then remediation. He is improving. That's progress. We'll give him more plays and responsibilities. Is that development? What if we give him more and he by box score "regresses"? That our measure or the coaches. Same with Frank. What are we asking him to do this year over last? Where is he succeeding, regressiong, or stagnant? Is it he is not capable? Team dynamic? Wrong coaching?
Lets change the front office? This way Frank can have his third in three years? More coaches? Because Rainman says its all mills fault as GM as if Phil was never here?
Clee, Enes, Tim and KP are all freaking gone. That's 4 starters from last year. Burke. Gone.
In place are the kids.
Sugar coating this? Hell no, it doe not win games. We can't see the future. If I get up every day and do that right thing good things happen. start a new year by eating right, exercise, sleep. Live long. Then a bus hits me while im sipping a cappuccino in Rome.
Shyt happens. I survive. Gonna blame my regimine for a few months on that? Nope. Doc says im lucky to survive because I was in good shape. Good enough shape! Says my bones will mend better because of that. Said it was good I quit smoking years ago but had I never I might be in still better shape. Know what, I can't undo that now. Its part of my history and all I can do is what I do going forward. Making good small choices helps even when bad things happen. Knicks are making better choices. Not evident but new GM in season and a half an new coach. I have more faith in this FO than any in the last 20 years because of it. No guarantees for success. Rainman, what should another GM do at this moment going forward? Erase history?

10 wins, no improvement, no plan, no core, no system, no roles, no progress...

Stop justifying Mills and perry's inept work, as if Phil is the blame, who was phil Jackson GM.

Who hired FIZ, who Hired Keith (fired from his last 3 coaching gigs)Smart..

Nolad, Mills will be fired, and you know it..He has one strike left..pay attention to DOLANS track record.

If they do a good job in june and july, i'll change my tune, but my sources have told me, DOLAN is ready to make a change(and you know i have been right about a lot sht)

wait lol, you have sources? They inside or outside your head?

It was a joke, but after posting that, i bet a co wrker (lunch) that you would be the 1st, 2nd or 3rd person to respond to that...and low and behold, like clock work you did.

Track record is what i pay attn to the most..