Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I was ready for Tim to leave but he loved being a Knick.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/knickfilmschool/status/1092746601855180800

I have mixed feelings, and kind of feel bad for him for the reason you state

He was not hired, or meant, to be lead dog. He can be a solid, to very good complement to a number 1 and 2 (i.e., if you forget about him he can hurt you). He also competed hard

I also think the team should have played him at 2 where he could drive more and get to the line, and likewise feel playing frank at 2 or even 3 is a mistake as it mitigates perhaps his biggest strength -- his length on D at the point!

Wishing him the best (except when they play us)

That's how I feel about FIZ, I think he's an absolute must have on any coaching staff,(a # 2 guy) i just don't see him as a championship coach regardless of how good or talented the roster is.

If this is a tank yr so be it, I gotta live with that, but (like philly) i don't want any player that was part of the tank, because those habits will carry over.

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I was ready for Tim to leave but he loved being a Knick.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/knickfilmschool/status/1092746601855180800

I have mixed feelings, and kind of feel bad for him for the reason you state

He was not hired, or meant, to be lead dog. He can be a solid, to very good complement to a number 1 and 2 (i.e., if you forget about him he can hurt you). He also competed hard

I also think the team should have played him at 2 where he could drive more and get to the line, and likewise feel playing frank at 2 or even 3 is a mistake as it mitigates perhaps his biggest strength -- his length on D at the point!

Wishing him the best (except when they play us)

For me THJr was never a competent player. He didn't do something very good and had too many deficiencies on defense.

Too many bad shots. Not really that good a shooter. Bad individual defender, bad team defender.

Loved his fire.

There is some common thinking that THJr needed to be a complimentary player for 1 or 2 others; that's not a reasonable argument for me: he didn't know how to play within himself first, no less know how to play around guys who were better than him. Had an OK last year with Atlanta but that was more contract and flash in the pan, never grew past that and seemed to decline in fact.

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I was ready for Tim to leave but he loved being a Knick.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/knickfilmschool/status/1092746601855180800

I have mixed feelings, and kind of feel bad for him for the reason you state

He was not hired, or meant, to be lead dog. He can be a solid, to very good complement to a number 1 and 2 (i.e., if you forget about him he can hurt you). He also competed hard

I also think the team should have played him at 2 where he could drive more and get to the line, and likewise feel playing frank at 2 or even 3 is a mistake as it mitigates perhaps his biggest strength -- his length on D at the point!

Wishing him the best (except when they play us)

For me THJr was never a competent player. He didn't do something very good and had too many deficiencies on defense.

Too many bad shots. Not really that good a shooter. Bad individual defender, bad team defender.

Loved his fire.

There is some common thinking that THJr needed to be a complimentary player for 1 or 2 others; that's not a reasonable argument for me: he didn't know how to play within himself first, no less know how to play around guys who were better than him. Had an OK last year with Atlanta but that was more contract and flash in the pan, never grew past that and seemed to decline in fact.

agree completely. he really needed to have high end, consistent production to offset his defense. He had to shift around the 2/3 during his second act and even at the 2 he was the smaller player in the matchup

knicks1248 wrote:So you guys think fiz is a good coach after losing 24 of his last 25 games?

we have almost lost to every team in the league, teams that rest players, teams that were missing their best players, teams that were also tanking, teams we had big leads against.

62 different rotations (im not kidding) I think i heard 29 different starting line ups

Look at the roster- how many games do you think we should have won? Plus injuries, plus rookie walls. Would you feel better if we'd won 4 more games and were in 4th place for the draft?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/angry_rantman/status/1094677467971928064

Uptown wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:I posted about this on the Kanter thread...Fiz's inability to get folks bought into a team vision is concerning. Now it's not apples to apples, but I'm also an Islanders fan, and the transformation that team has gone through - largely the same defense-poor team as last year, _minus_ their best player - is profound. They're in first place. And it's all because Barry Trotz implemented his system, and guys struggled at first getting used to it - it took sacrifice. Matthew Barzal had to change his free-wheeling game and he has (to his great credit), wherein his personal stats may have taken a bit of a hit, but the team play is worlds better.
I see none of this sacrifice from the Knicks. Hell I see no system at all that you would sacrifice to in the first place. And I have to think that if Fiz were a better coach, he would have gotten more out of Kanter, would have fostered development in our youths instead of seeing regression. I don't know. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here, and am hoping he shows us something next year, but if we see players not buying in or sacrificing and more regression from our youth this time next year, then it's time to make a change.

Do you guys watch other NBA games besides the Knicks?! I ask because most of the NBA runs the same stuff. I caught most of the OKC/Houston game last night and the 4t quarter was a steady diet of a spread offense ( 4 out and 1 in) and Harden going one on one. On the other side, OKS ran a spread offense with Paul George going one on one or Westbrook running a high pick n roll where he would attack the basket, hit the roller and kick to the corner for a 3. Most teams run a read-n-react or high pick and roll offense! They will throw in a Horns set every now and then but its mostly the same. Most of the time when we see intricate sets its off of a time out or an out of bounds play.

I dont watch Hockey, but as we know, just one superstar player can change the dynamic of an NBA teams offense and defense. Two and you can compete for a championship. Replace Knox with Durant, and Hardaway with Kyrie and we would see a major difference. It's a players league...

Now, with that said, I will agree that Fiz could make some subtle changes to get Knox running off pin-down screens so he can catch and shoot, or off Flex-screens where he can catch the ball closer to the basket where he could use his height and get him away from hanging out on the perimeter. Keep in mind, Fiz is essentially a 2nd year head coach. He is growing and learning with the team. Pretty sure he will get better and is hopefully ready when we are ready to turn the corner.

Under this logic, coaches shouldn't matter as long as they run the same plays?

Steve Kerr added 16 games to the Warriors his first season
Budenholzer is on track to add 17 games to Bucks this year, his first season with team

neither team had any significant roster changes

So while you may be right as to how important top flight talent is, I strongly disagree about coaches. That just seems like a bunch of baloney

Pop used to beat teams with his second unit

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:I posted about this on the Kanter thread...Fiz's inability to get folks bought into a team vision is concerning. Now it's not apples to apples, but I'm also an Islanders fan, and the transformation that team has gone through - largely the same defense-poor team as last year, _minus_ their best player - is profound. They're in first place. And it's all because Barry Trotz implemented his system, and guys struggled at first getting used to it - it took sacrifice. Matthew Barzal had to change his free-wheeling game and he has (to his great credit), wherein his personal stats may have taken a bit of a hit, but the team play is worlds better.
I see none of this sacrifice from the Knicks. Hell I see no system at all that you would sacrifice to in the first place. And I have to think that if Fiz were a better coach, he would have gotten more out of Kanter, would have fostered development in our youths instead of seeing regression. I don't know. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here, and am hoping he shows us something next year, but if we see players not buying in or sacrificing and more regression from our youth this time next year, then it's time to make a change.

Do you guys watch other NBA games besides the Knicks?! I ask because most of the NBA runs the same stuff. I caught most of the OKC/Houston game last night and the 4t quarter was a steady diet of a spread offense ( 4 out and 1 in) and Harden going one on one. On the other side, OKS ran a spread offense with Paul George going one on one or Westbrook running a high pick n roll where he would attack the basket, hit the roller and kick to the corner for a 3. Most teams run a read-n-react or high pick and roll offense! They will throw in a Horns set every now and then but its mostly the same. Most of the time when we see intricate sets its off of a time out or an out of bounds play.

I dont watch Hockey, but as we know, just one superstar player can change the dynamic of an NBA teams offense and defense. Two and you can compete for a championship. Replace Knox with Durant, and Hardaway with Kyrie and we would see a major difference. It's a players league...

Now, with that said, I will agree that Fiz could make some subtle changes to get Knox running off pin-down screens so he can catch and shoot, or off Flex-screens where he can catch the ball closer to the basket where he could use his height and get him away from hanging out on the perimeter. Keep in mind, Fiz is essentially a 2nd year head coach. He is growing and learning with the team. Pretty sure he will get better and is hopefully ready when we are ready to turn the corner.

Under this logic, coaches shouldn't matter as long as they run the same plays?

Steve Kerr added 16 games to the Warriors his first season
Budenholzer is on track to add 17 games to Bucks this year, his first season with team

neither team had any significant roster changes

So while you may be right as to how important top flight talent is, I strongly disagree about coaches. That just seems like a bunch of baloney

Pop used to beat teams with his second unit

I been coaching for 10 years on the high school level, obviously it's not the NBA, but I know a thing or two about coaching. You totally ignored my last paragraph where I pointed out subtle changes that Fiz can and should make but he is not.

One size does not fit all as you have to adapt to the roster that you have. However, Fiz seems to be a fan of a Read N React styled Offense that emphasizes spacing the floor and he is trying to install his style of play and his culture now!! It looks messy because he doesn't have the talent, the Shooting, nor the experience to run that type of offense. There are tons of reads in the Read N React; there's back door cuts, dribble hand offs, pick n rolls, drive n kicks, pass and then screen away all available but it takes months, years to develop. Obviously, Fiz has a long leash and he there is not pressure to win now, so why not put in your style of play with the Young Core thats going to be here for the long haul and allow them to develop that chemistry now. I'm sure our offense looks just as messy as Brett Browns offense looked several years ago when he only won 10 games.

The Reason why the Bucks look so much better now is because Coach Bud has the Bucks playing the Space and Pace (Read N React) offense that most of the elite teams are playing now. Jason Kidd had the floor too cluttered and the spacing was bad which didn't allow Greek Freak to drive and kick. Coach Bud has put an emphasis on the 3 ball, in fact they might be taking the most 3's in the league. This style is similar to what Fiz is trying to put in with us but we dont have the shooters nor the experience. The Bucks roster has been in tact for several years so the chemistry is already there.

As far as the Warriors are concerned, Mark Jackson was more of a defensive coach and all the defensive principles were already in tact when Kerr arrived. Kerr put an emphasis on spacing the floor and playing a more modernized style of play.

In the end, J Kidd and Mark Jacksin did not have those teams playing a modern styled offense....Fiz is trying to get the Knicks to play modern styled ball, but he doesn't have the pieces or experience to pull it off....Its going to take some time....

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:I posted about this on the Kanter thread...Fiz's inability to get folks bought into a team vision is concerning. Now it's not apples to apples, but I'm also an Islanders fan, and the transformation that team has gone through - largely the same defense-poor team as last year, _minus_ their best player - is profound. They're in first place. And it's all because Barry Trotz implemented his system, and guys struggled at first getting used to it - it took sacrifice. Matthew Barzal had to change his free-wheeling game and he has (to his great credit), wherein his personal stats may have taken a bit of a hit, but the team play is worlds better.
I see none of this sacrifice from the Knicks. Hell I see no system at all that you would sacrifice to in the first place. And I have to think that if Fiz were a better coach, he would have gotten more out of Kanter, would have fostered development in our youths instead of seeing regression. I don't know. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here, and am hoping he shows us something next year, but if we see players not buying in or sacrificing and more regression from our youth this time next year, then it's time to make a change.

Do you guys watch other NBA games besides the Knicks?! I ask because most of the NBA runs the same stuff. I caught most of the OKC/Houston game last night and the 4t quarter was a steady diet of a spread offense ( 4 out and 1 in) and Harden going one on one. On the other side, OKS ran a spread offense with Paul George going one on one or Westbrook running a high pick n roll where he would attack the basket, hit the roller and kick to the corner for a 3. Most teams run a read-n-react or high pick and roll offense! They will throw in a Horns set every now and then but its mostly the same. Most of the time when we see intricate sets its off of a time out or an out of bounds play.

I dont watch Hockey, but as we know, just one superstar player can change the dynamic of an NBA teams offense and defense. Two and you can compete for a championship. Replace Knox with Durant, and Hardaway with Kyrie and we would see a major difference. It's a players league...

Now, with that said, I will agree that Fiz could make some subtle changes to get Knox running off pin-down screens so he can catch and shoot, or off Flex-screens where he can catch the ball closer to the basket where he could use his height and get him away from hanging out on the perimeter. Keep in mind, Fiz is essentially a 2nd year head coach. He is growing and learning with the team. Pretty sure he will get better and is hopefully ready when we are ready to turn the corner.

Under this logic, coaches shouldn't matter as long as they run the same plays?

Steve Kerr added 16 games to the Warriors his first season
Budenholzer is on track to add 17 games to Bucks this year, his first season with team

neither team had any significant roster changes

So while you may be right as to how important top flight talent is, I strongly disagree about coaches. That just seems like a bunch of baloney

Pop used to beat teams with his second unit

JH stated Before he got fired, that this team was a couple of players away from being real good

I thought Fiz would come in raised the level of play and build confidence and get guys to defend relentlessly.. Not break every losing record in the franchises 67 yr existence

Most teams that ain't good, are always going to be a couple of good players away from being good.

stanleybostitch wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:I posted about this on the Kanter thread...Fiz's inability to get folks bought into a team vision is concerning. Now it's not apples to apples, but I'm also an Islanders fan, and the transformation that team has gone through - largely the same defense-poor team as last year, _minus_ their best player - is profound. They're in first place. And it's all because Barry Trotz implemented his system, and guys struggled at first getting used to it - it took sacrifice. Matthew Barzal had to change his free-wheeling game and he has (to his great credit), wherein his personal stats may have taken a bit of a hit, but the team play is worlds better.
I see none of this sacrifice from the Knicks. Hell I see no system at all that you would sacrifice to in the first place. And I have to think that if Fiz were a better coach, he would have gotten more out of Kanter, would have fostered development in our youths instead of seeing regression. I don't know. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here, and am hoping he shows us something next year, but if we see players not buying in or sacrificing and more regression from our youth this time next year, then it's time to make a change.

Do you guys watch other NBA games besides the Knicks?! I ask because most of the NBA runs the same stuff. I caught most of the OKC/Houston game last night and the 4t quarter was a steady diet of a spread offense ( 4 out and 1 in) and Harden going one on one. On the other side, OKS ran a spread offense with Paul George going one on one or Westbrook running a high pick n roll where he would attack the basket, hit the roller and kick to the corner for a 3. Most teams run a read-n-react or high pick and roll offense! They will throw in a Horns set every now and then but its mostly the same. Most of the time when we see intricate sets its off of a time out or an out of bounds play.

I dont watch Hockey, but as we know, just one superstar player can change the dynamic of an NBA teams offense and defense. Two and you can compete for a championship. Replace Knox with Durant, and Hardaway with Kyrie and we would see a major difference. It's a players league...

Now, with that said, I will agree that Fiz could make some subtle changes to get Knox running off pin-down screens so he can catch and shoot, or off Flex-screens where he can catch the ball closer to the basket where he could use his height and get him away from hanging out on the perimeter. Keep in mind, Fiz is essentially a 2nd year head coach. He is growing and learning with the team. Pretty sure he will get better and is hopefully ready when we are ready to turn the corner.

Under this logic, coaches shouldn't matter as long as they run the same plays?

Steve Kerr added 16 games to the Warriors his first season
Budenholzer is on track to add 17 games to Bucks this year, his first season with team

neither team had any significant roster changes

So while you may be right as to how important top flight talent is, I strongly disagree about coaches. That just seems like a bunch of baloney

Pop used to beat teams with his second unit

I been coaching for 10 years on the high school level, obviously it's not the NBA, but I know a thing or two about coaching. You totally ignored my last paragraph where I pointed out subtle changes that Fiz can and should make but he is not.

One size does not fit all as you have to adapt to the roster that you have. However, Fiz seems to be a fan of a Read N React styled Offense that emphasizes spacing the floor and he is trying to install his style of play and his culture now!! It looks messy because he doesn't have the talent, the Shooting, nor the experience to run that type of offense. There are tons of reads in the Read N React; there's back door cuts, dribble hand offs, pick n rolls, drive n kicks, pass and then screen away all available but it takes months, years to develop. Obviously, Fiz has a long leash and he there is not pressure to win now, so why not put in your style of play with the Young Core thats going to be here for the long haul and allow them to develop that chemistry now. I'm sure our offense looks just as messy as Brett Browns offense looked several years ago when he only won 10 games.

The Reason why the Bucks look so much better now is because Coach Bud has the Bucks playing the Space and Pace (Read N React) offense that most of the elite teams are playing now. Jason Kidd had the floor too cluttered and the spacing was bad which didn't allow Greek Freak to drive and kick. Coach Bud has put an emphasis on the 3 ball, in fact they might be taking the most 3's in the league. This style is similar to what Fiz is trying to put in with us but we dont have the shooters nor the experience. The Bucks roster has been in tact for several years so the chemistry is already there.

As far as the Warriors are concerned, Mark Jackson was more of a defensive coach and all the defensive principles were already in tact when Kerr arrived. Kerr put an emphasis on spacing the floor and playing a more modernized style of play.

In the end, J Kidd and Mark Jacksin did not have those teams playing a modern styled offense....Fiz is trying to get the Knicks to play modern styled ball, but he doesn't have the pieces or experience to pull it off....Its going to take some time....

Don't want to throw a grenade here, but this is what Phil was trying to do - instill a system where spacing allowed many different tactics (you mention a few - back door cuts, dribble hand offs, pick n rolls, drive n kicks, pass and then screen, etc.) to succeed. When I watch the Knicks I don't see consistent spacing - you can almost see the guys thinking about where they're supposed to be instead of reacting to the situation and executing, and this is clearly an experience issue, so am confident this'll get better with time. So maybe it's impatience with the youths on my part, but then the question is - how long do we give Fiz to show progress? I think by this time next year we have to see the team executing flawlessly, whether we've signed impact FA's or not.

and let's not forget the atrocious defense and passing. I too will keep fingers crossed things improve with experience, but remain skeptical.