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Working the 3 max cat machinations
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KnixinSix
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2/2/2019  11:28 AM
I believe according to the current CBA, If Knicks sign
Kyrie and Durant first, the Knicks can go above the salary cap to add a third star via trade (as long as the trade itself meets the cba salary matching rules).

If they could pull that off it gives them more ability to sign / keep players to fill out the roster.

AUTOADVERT
KnixinSix
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2/2/2019  11:32 AM
Another projected scenario

May not be perfectly calculated but it could be ball park of what is doable...

I do think that Perry does see that there are two options this summer: 1. Get 3 max free agents, or 2. Use cap space to acquire more draft capital. Before doing that, our focus until the this year's trading deadline should be on getting as much value as possible on the players with only one year left on their contracts.

Option 2 would mean taking on one to 2 year deals for unprotected draft picks. This would look similar to what the 76ers have done.

Option 1 is preferred and seemingly possible, if not somewhat realistic. This is a mock scenario of option one and how to fill out the roster after we are capped out.

Max free agent route:
1. Renounce all right to free agents
2. Sign one of Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, or Jimmy Butler
3. Sign one of Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker
4. Resign Wesley Matthews to 2 year, room MLE; Luke Kornet 1 year, minimum.
5. Sign some combo of the following (or similar): Patrick Beverly, Jerian Grant, David Nwaba, CJ Miles, Thabo Sefolosha, Jeff Green, Luc Rich Mbah A Moute, Kyle O'Quinn all to 1 year minimum deals.
6. Draft 1st round pick player, sign them (after 30 days you can trade a signed draft pick), 2nd round pick sign to 2 way contract.
7. Trade Dennis Smith Jr., Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox, Damyeon Dotson, Lance Thomas, 2019 1st round pick, 2020 unprotected 1st round pick to Pelicans for Anthony Davis.

Roster:
PG: Kyrie Irving - Patrick Beverley - Jerian Grant - Kadeem Allen (2way)
SG: Wesley Matthews - Alonzo Trier - David Nwaba
SF: Kevin Durant - C.J. Miles - Thabo Sefolosha
PF: Anthony Davis - Jeff Green - Luc Rich Mbah a Moute - 2nd round pick (2way)
C: Mitchell Robinson - Kyle O'Quinn - Luke Kornet

Team can compete for a championship. By the trade deadline, we can package some 1 year deals and a draft pick for expiring rookie players (ex. Luc Rich Mbah a Moute, Thabo Sefolosha, 2 2nd round picks, and cash for Taurean Prince). This allows us to resign the players to larger contracts in free agency since we would have their bird rights. By 2020 we could have a deep team, with in their prime role players. I really hope that the Knicks can get it done.

Other options/questions:
1.Could we resign either or both Matthews and Jordan with going over the cap? Robinson and Jordan would be a formidable duo at C.
2. Can we actually trade off Noahs stretch money owed?

KnixinSix
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2/2/2019  11:39 AM
Another potential great breakdown for what we could be shooting for


Is it possible? Yes but will take some creativity.

Quick answer, it depends.....It is not possible if they acquire AD first prior to signing KD and Kyrie... This is because KD's max is going to be 35% of the cap since he's a 10 year veteran. If we sign 2 max guys with less than 10 years of experience, it is possible to acquire AD right now and have 2 max contracts left in the summer. No matter what, acquiring AD helps with this conversation because he only makes 27 million. Kawhi, Kyrie, Kemba, Butler, Klay are all set to make 30% of the cap. KD is going to make 35% of the cap.

With that said, there are scenarios that are plausable in which the Knicks could afford 3 of these guys. This is because one nice part of having only good contracts left on the cap are that they're all movable, if necessary. The only cap hit not movable is Noah. So, to start, take the projected salary cap number of $109M, subtract the salary committed to Noah's buyout $6,431,667 and LFT's guarantee of $1,000,000.

Step 1) Assumption: 109M Cap
Step 2) Toal Possible Space before Cap Holds = (109M LESS Noah and LFT) = 101,568,333
Step 3) 9 Cap Holds (Est. $838,464/ea) = 7,546,176
Step 4) Total Space for 3 players = 94,022,157
Step 5)

AD Salary 2019 = 27,093,019
Kyrie Salary 2019 = 32,700,00
KD Salary 2019 = 38,150,000
TOTAL SALARY CAP NEEDED TO ACQUIRE ALL 3 = 97,943,019

THEREFORE....

Scenario 1) If they acquire AD first via trade NOW, it would all comes down to if Kyrie and/or Durant want to give up any money. AD is under contract so he can not give up money even if he wants to.

Scenario 2) If they sign Kyrie and KD outright for $70,850,000 first (or any other 2 max cats), they could then retain the following roster:

1) Kyrie & KD + Noahs Cap Hold + LFT guaranteed = 77,281,667
-PLUS-
3) Knox = 4,380,120
4) Smith Jr = 4,463,640
5) Robinson = 1,559,120
6) Ntilikina = 4,855,800
7) Dotson = 1,618,520
8) Trier = 3,551,100
9) 2019 Number 1 Pick (Highest Salary Scenario) - ($6,804,300)
10) 2nd Rnd Pick = Rookie Minimum (838,464)
11) Min Cap Hold = 838,464
12) Min Cap Hold = 838,464

Total Salary Committed = 108,029,659

We could then use any combination of our roster and future picks to trade for stars... even if it means going over the cap. The salaries that we receive must be within 125% + 100,000 of the outgoing salaries. Therefore, if we can retain any of these guys off their current deals for short-term deals and/or good value deals, it would help to meet future salaries via trade. In other words, we would have to exchange $21,594,416 in salaries to acquire AD.

This would require something along the lines of:

2019 1st = 6,804,300
Knox = 4,380,120
Ntilikina = 4,855,800
Trier = 3,551,100
Dotson = 1,618,520
2nd Rnd Pick = 838,464
TOTAL SALARY TRADED: 22,048,304

Final Thoughts

1) Durants 35% salary max makes matters a little more difficult. Opting to sign Kawhi or two guys with less than 10 years of experience would ease financial matters considerably and allow us to retain more of our current young core without HAVING to include them just to match salaries.
2) With that said, even if we are fortunate enough to sign Durant, we could then make a trade for AD happen and retain 1 of the following: DSJ, Knox or 2019 1st round pick. We would also be able to retain Robinson or Dotson.
3) I expect LFT to be included in a deal before the deadline to get his $1,000,000 guarantee off the books.

An example of a roster with 3 max guys would look as follows:
C: Robinson
PF: AD
SF: Durant
SG: Minimum/Dotson
PG: Kyrie
6: Knox, DSJ or 2019 1st Rnd Pick
7) Minimum
8) Minimum
9) Minimum

Alternatively, I could see the Knicks try the following:

C: Robinson
PF: AD
SF: Knox
SG: Klay
PG: Kyrie
6: Dotson or Trier
7: Minimum
8: Minimum


With all this said I believe it is still doable with trading for AD first, but it will be harder need more creativity to fill out the roster.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1798897

Jmpasq
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2/2/2019  12:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/2/2019  12:34 PM
Id rather sign Leonard and Kyrie and keep our core. Msybe Tony Parker will sign on if the Hornets blow it up. Bring Back Melo on the Vet min. You know who else Ron Baker for the min.
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
KnixinSix
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2/2/2019  1:15 PM
Jmpasq wrote:Id rather sign Leonard and Kyrie and keep our core. Msybe Tony Parker will sign on if the Hornets blow it up. Bring Back Melo on the Vet min. You know who else Ron Baker for the min.

Not sure if serious?

smackeddog
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2/2/2019  1:20 PM
I'm not a fan of the 3 stars and nothing else approach. 2 stars and decent to good supporting cast is much better- especially with 2 injury prone players like Kyrie and AD.
VCoug
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2/2/2019  1:51 PM
If a team makes a trade and they're over the cap or it puts them over the cap then the salaries have to match. It would be very difficult to put together a trade when we're under the cap that would put us over the cap. Also, you have us including Lance Thomas in a trade. We won't have the cap space for 2 max slots unless we decline his option.
Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
KnixinSix
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2/2/2019  3:23 PM
VCoug wrote:If a team makes a trade and they're over the cap or it puts them over the cap then the salaries have to match. It would be very difficult to put together a trade when we're under the cap that would put us over the cap. Also, you have us including Lance Thomas in a trade. We won't have the cap space for 2 max slots unless we decline his option.

The 3 star with role player approach has proven very successful in today's NBA.

VCoug
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2/2/2019  4:14 PM
KnixinSix wrote:
VCoug wrote:If a team makes a trade and they're over the cap or it puts them over the cap then the salaries have to match. It would be very difficult to put together a trade when we're under the cap that would put us over the cap. Also, you have us including Lance Thomas in a trade. We won't have the cap space for 2 max slots unless we decline his option.

The 3 star with role player approach has proven very successful in today's NBA.

Of course, that's always been the case. I'm saying that we basically can't do that.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Jmpasq
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2/2/2019  4:20 PM
KnixinSix wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Id rather sign Leonard and Kyrie and keep our core. Msybe Tony Parker will sign on if the Hornets blow it up. Bring Back Melo on the Vet min. You know who else Ron Baker for the min.

Not sure if serious?

Im serious about everything except Melo. I don't want to trade away Knox, Frank, our first round pick, and Smith. Of course I want Durant but 35% of the cap is insane

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
KnixinSix
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2/2/2019  7:10 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Id rather sign Leonard and Kyrie and keep our core. Msybe Tony Parker will sign on if the Hornets blow it up. Bring Back Melo on the Vet min. You know who else Ron Baker for the min.

Not sure if serious?

Im serious about everything except Melo. I don't want to trade away Knox, Frank, our first round pick, and Smith. Of course I want Durant but 35% of the cap is insane

Yeah not cheap but they can make it work.

franco12
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2/2/2019  7:41 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Id rather sign Leonard and Kyrie and keep our core. Msybe Tony Parker will sign on if the Hornets blow it up. Bring Back Melo on the Vet min. You know who else Ron Baker for the min.

Not sure if serious?

Im serious about everything except Melo. I don't want to trade away Knox, Frank, our first round pick, and Smith. Of course I want Durant but 35% of the cap is insane

I agree that 35% is crazy, and I'd love to keep some of our guys like Mudiay and Vonleh, but realize they may need to go.

Also- I think you can get some great value without focusing on the top 3 or 4 older/max type free agents

I love Spencer Dinwiddie, Tobias Harris, Justise Winslow, Willie Cauley-Stein, Nikola Mirotic.

Maybe rather than a big 2 we could add 3 or 4 really good players.

ramtour420
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2/2/2019  7:52 PM
franco12 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Id rather sign Leonard and Kyrie and keep our core. Msybe Tony Parker will sign on if the Hornets blow it up. Bring Back Melo on the Vet min. You know who else Ron Baker for the min.

Not sure if serious?

Im serious about everything except Melo. I don't want to trade away Knox, Frank, our first round pick, and Smith. Of course I want Durant but 35% of the cap is insane

I agree that 35% is crazy, and I'd love to keep some of our guys like Mudiay and Vonleh, but realize they may need to go.

Also- I think you can get some great value without focusing on the top 3 or 4 older/max type free agents

I love Spencer Dinwiddie, Tobias Harris, Justise Winslow, Willie Cauley-Stein, Nikola Mirotic.

Maybe rather than a big 2 we could add 3 or 4 really good players.

But its a star's league. Detroit Pistons were the last team to win a championship with less than 2 all stars. And that was a while ago

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
KnixinSix
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2/3/2019  9:11 AM
ramtour420 wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Id rather sign Leonard and Kyrie and keep our core. Msybe Tony Parker will sign on if the Hornets blow it up. Bring Back Melo on the Vet min. You know who else Ron Baker for the min.

Not sure if serious?

Im serious about everything except Melo. I don't want to trade away Knox, Frank, our first round pick, and Smith. Of course I want Durant but 35% of the cap is insane

I agree that 35% is crazy, and I'd love to keep some of our guys like Mudiay and Vonleh, but realize they may need to go.

Also- I think you can get some great value without focusing on the top 3 or 4 older/max type free agents

I love Spencer Dinwiddie, Tobias Harris, Justise Winslow, Willie Cauley-Stein, Nikola Mirotic.

Maybe rather than a big 2 we could add 3 or 4 really good players.

But its a star's league. Detroit Pistons were the last team to win a championship with less than 2 all stars. And that was a while ago

Agreed. 2 really big stars (like top 10-15 in NBA) is likely the minumum one needs to win in todays NBA. 3 will give you even more a chance with Super teams like the Warriors and likely the Lakers if they get Kawhi. I think we'd be very good with KD and Kyrie but wven better if we got AD too if we are creative in how will fill out the roster (like Miami did a few years back)

franco12
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2/3/2019  9:21 AM
KnixinSix wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Id rather sign Leonard and Kyrie and keep our core. Msybe Tony Parker will sign on if the Hornets blow it up. Bring Back Melo on the Vet min. You know who else Ron Baker for the min.

Not sure if serious?

Im serious about everything except Melo. I don't want to trade away Knox, Frank, our first round pick, and Smith. Of course I want Durant but 35% of the cap is insane

I agree that 35% is crazy, and I'd love to keep some of our guys like Mudiay and Vonleh, but realize they may need to go.

Also- I think you can get some great value without focusing on the top 3 or 4 older/max type free agents

I love Spencer Dinwiddie, Tobias Harris, Justise Winslow, Willie Cauley-Stein, Nikola Mirotic.

Maybe rather than a big 2 we could add 3 or 4 really good players.

But its a star's league. Detroit Pistons were the last team to win a championship with less than 2 all stars. And that was a while ago

Agreed. 2 really big stars (like top 10-15 in NBA) is likely the minumum one needs to win in todays NBA. 3 will give you even more a chance with Super teams like the Warriors and likely the Lakers if they get Kawhi. I think we'd be very good with KD and Kyrie but wven better if we got AD too if we are creative in how will fill out the roster (like Miami did a few years back)

I'm hoping we get Zion, so that he can be one of those 2/3 you need.

And then the big thing is fit and depth. We seem to forget that GS has depth with some great players at every position. I mean, take Klay, Curry & KD off that team, and somehow I think they'd be a darn good team still.

KnixinSix
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2/3/2019  11:55 AM
Miami didnt have much depth neither did the Cavs. Get the big 3 and the guys will come.
Cartman718
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2/4/2019  6:51 PM
Great job and detail KnixinSix
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Working the 3 max cat machinations

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