[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Dennis Smith Jr
Author Thread
joec32033
Posts: 29578
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
2/7/2019  12:24 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

Didn't watch the game, but 11-25 shooting is ugly. I'm missing a lot of context, but was it case where he was the only who could get off and the game dictated he throw up all kinds of crazy shots? Knox, Matthews and Dot also had putrid lines as well, so that very well could've been the case. How did Iso-Zo look next to DSJ?

He was 10-20 until around the 4th.

He is gonna be the featured player go to guy for the rest of the season as expected. Which is great in terms of building his value(just in case things happen).

We will have the rest of the season to evaluate him.

Which included a half court shot with half running out and 3 blocked shots. Weird how the same guys that touted a 5 and 5 game from Frank all of sudden have higher expectations for Smith?


What do you think will happen with frank, he is clearly expendable now.


First it was Burke, then Mudiay, Now DSJ, and their #1 target is Kyrie...

clearly I don't think they see frank as their future PG..

I know the knicks prefer to nab a first rounder if he's traded, but they way we shoot bricks, i would be looking at trying to get some shooters,

I think the Realistic case scenario for Frank, and I could be wrong, is he is comparable to a guy like Bobby Phil's was or more currently comparable to Courtney Lee. A very strong defender at the 1,2,3 spot who offensively plays the 3, who may be able to pop in 12-15 points per game. His upper level talent I think, is maybe Ron Harper, while at worst he is that pain in the ass defender that was on Memphis forever-his name escapes me-or a Bruce Bowen Anthony Roberson type

~You can't run from who you are.~
AUTOADVERT
technomaster
Posts: 22291
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
2/7/2019  1:28 AM
For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
Cartman718
Posts: 28442
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/12/2007
Member: #1694

2/7/2019  9:11 AM
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Like I said in another post...
You are saying non shortage of confidence, I call it jacking it up not in the flow of the system.

Last time he had 25+ points was Oct 28, beginning of the season, fresh legs etc.
Last time Mudiay jacked up 20+ shots...Dec 14...14 of 21. Dec 17...12 of 21...for 34 and 32 points respectively, those were also 8 assist and 6 assist games. So not having a conscience or "having confidence" is one thing, efficiency is another.
and HELL NO, I do not want Kyrie AND Kemba signed in FA this July. That would be bad. without looking at needs for other spots.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26453
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

2/7/2019  9:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2019  10:14 AM
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Perspective? All those guys except Harden play defense and make an actual impact on that side of the ball. Cherry picking one stat to make a comparison in a vacuum is how analyses go wrong

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
martin
Posts: 48095
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/7/2019  10:39 AM
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23103
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

2/7/2019  3:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2019  3:20 PM
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
BigDaddyG
Posts: 26402
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

2/7/2019  3:24 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?


11-25 for 25 points is bad for a PG, Center, PF, SF, whatever. I agree that you can look at this stats raw. The flow of the game, teammates, time on the team...those all need to be considered as well. You start to worry if it becomes a trend.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23103
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

2/7/2019  3:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2019  4:04 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?


11-25 for 25 points is bad for a PG, Center, PF, SF, whatever. I agree that you can look at this stats raw. The flow of the game, teammates, time on the team...those all need to be considered as well. You start to worry if it becomes a trend.

Agree that consistent games in which he goes 11 for 25 games is a bad trend. Which btw included 3 bad shots and had a half court shot with the half ending. So he took 3 bad shots? Not so bad. Point of post was to comment on how some on here are putting this kid under the microscope. Yet seem to excuse other players faults just because they match up to with their preferred style of play. Guess that's fair as everyone should have a style of player they like. But lets not make it seem like that's not what all this is about. The kids is young. Needs to get a consistent shot and has to continue to work on his defense. But he is incredibly quick, has more skill and confidence than most on the team and is not exactly our max salary player. Don't need any stats to see that.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
martin
Posts: 48095
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/7/2019  4:21 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?

because otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. techno just compared career FG% for DJ and the likes of Harden.

If you like that comparison, have at it. The above was not a deep look into DS, you missed the point entirely and brought up something else

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
CrushAlot
Posts: 57960
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/7/2019  10:51 PM

Duncan and Leroux have been saying the same for awhile.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23103
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

2/8/2019  9:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2019  9:08 AM
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?

because otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. techno just compared career FG% for DJ and the likes of Harden.

If you like that comparison, have at it. The above was not a deep look into DS, you missed the point entirely and brought up something else

Thats fair. Agree with you that comparing his FG% with other positions, best in the league does not speak positively or negatively about his play. Maintaining my point about EFG% in that regard.

In terms of better ways to gauge DSJR or PG's, my point, feel you have to look at more important variables. I have coached PG's that are great spot up shooters but cannot stay in the position due to their inabilty to push tempo, manage turnovers or get into the paint and create shots for others. Some cant take the pressure and complexity of the PG position. For me, if qe are to talk about how well Smith is doing we have to take that into account. Managing a game, turnovers and his ability to ignite an offense is more important than how many clicks better his shot is than others. IMO.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
Uptown
Posts: 27450
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

2/8/2019  11:42 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?

because otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. techno just compared career FG% for DJ and the likes of Harden.

If you like that comparison, have at it. The above was not a deep look into DS, you missed the point entirely and brought up something else

Thats fair. Agree with you that comparing his FG% with other positions, best in the league does not speak positively or negatively about his play. Maintaining my point about EFG% in that regard.

In terms of better ways to gauge DSJR or PG's, my point, feel you have to look at more important variables. I have coached PG's that are great spot up shooters but cannot stay in the position due to their inabilty to push tempo, manage turnovers or get into the paint and create shots for others. Some cant take the pressure and complexity of the PG position. For me, if qe are to talk about how well Smith is doing we have to take that into account. Managing a game, turnovers and his ability to ignite an offense is more important than how many clicks better his shot is than others. IMO.

You have a pg that can shoot?! Send them my way, please. We're playing in the HS regional finals tom against our rivals....I could use a knock down shooter

“It’s much more about the perception of the organization,” Fizdale said. “What I think we’ve done together with Steve [Mills] and Scott [Perry], Mr. Dolan and myself an
CrushAlot
Posts: 57960
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/8/2019  4:47 PM
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?

because otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. techno just compared career FG% for DJ and the likes of Harden.

If you like that comparison, have at it. The above was not a deep look into DS, you missed the point entirely and brought up something else

Thats fair. Agree with you that comparing his FG% with other positions, best in the league does not speak positively or negatively about his play. Maintaining my point about EFG% in that regard.

In terms of better ways to gauge DSJR or PG's, my point, feel you have to look at more important variables. I have coached PG's that are great spot up shooters but cannot stay in the position due to their inabilty to push tempo, manage turnovers or get into the paint and create shots for others. Some cant take the pressure and complexity of the PG position. For me, if qe are to talk about how well Smith is doing we have to take that into account. Managing a game, turnovers and his ability to ignite an offense is more important than how many clicks better his shot is than others. IMO.

You have a pg that can shoot?! Send them my way, please. We're playing in the HS regional finals tom against our rivals....I could use a knock down shooter

Good luck.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23103
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

2/8/2019  6:45 PM
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?

because otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. techno just compared career FG% for DJ and the likes of Harden.

If you like that comparison, have at it. The above was not a deep look into DS, you missed the point entirely and brought up something else

Thats fair. Agree with you that comparing his FG% with other positions, best in the league does not speak positively or negatively about his play. Maintaining my point about EFG% in that regard.

In terms of better ways to gauge DSJR or PG's, my point, feel you have to look at more important variables. I have coached PG's that are great spot up shooters but cannot stay in the position due to their inabilty to push tempo, manage turnovers or get into the paint and create shots for others. Some cant take the pressure and complexity of the PG position. For me, if qe are to talk about how well Smith is doing we have to take that into account. Managing a game, turnovers and his ability to ignite an offense is more important than how many clicks better his shot is than others. IMO.

You have a pg that can shoot?! Send them my way, please. We're playing in the HS regional finals tom against our rivals....I could use a knock down shooter

Think he may be too old for high school. Lol

Thats awesome! Lots of luck to you and your team.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
Uptown
Posts: 27450
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

2/8/2019  7:32 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?

because otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. techno just compared career FG% for DJ and the likes of Harden.

If you like that comparison, have at it. The above was not a deep look into DS, you missed the point entirely and brought up something else

Thats fair. Agree with you that comparing his FG% with other positions, best in the league does not speak positively or negatively about his play. Maintaining my point about EFG% in that regard.

In terms of better ways to gauge DSJR or PG's, my point, feel you have to look at more important variables. I have coached PG's that are great spot up shooters but cannot stay in the position due to their inabilty to push tempo, manage turnovers or get into the paint and create shots for others. Some cant take the pressure and complexity of the PG position. For me, if qe are to talk about how well Smith is doing we have to take that into account. Managing a game, turnovers and his ability to ignite an offense is more important than how many clicks better his shot is than others. IMO.

You have a pg that can shoot?! Send them my way, please. We're playing in the HS regional finals tom against our rivals....I could use a knock down shooter

Good luck.

Thanks

“It’s much more about the perception of the organization,” Fizdale said. “What I think we’ve done together with Steve [Mills] and Scott [Perry], Mr. Dolan and myself an
Uptown
Posts: 27450
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

2/8/2019  7:32 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:
technomaster wrote:For those that think 11/25 is a bad night, let’s put 44% fg% into perspective:
Looking at career fg%:
KP: .437
Donovan Mitchell: .43
Westbrook: .434
Harden: .443

Yeah, we’d like more efficiency, more free throws, fewer shots, and we should be looking at TS% anyway.

It’s tough to get 25 shots up... this guy has no shortage in confidence. I’d imagine DSJ is at best plan C for starting PG next season (behind Kyrie and Kemba) but for now it makes our backcourt interesting. I guess I’d rather see him controlling the ball than Timmy...

Why are we looking at FG%? This is the modern day NBA, look at eFG% and then get back to us. Or even TS%?

Disagree. Why do we need to use EFG% or TS% to gauge Smith? First, these measures were created to factor in 3 point shooting.(Something NO ONE is claiming Smith excells at) As it favors 3pt. shooters. Who can actually have a % higher than 100. Secondly, these shooting percentage stat categories are usually headed by PF, C or players that finish around the basket. Who take higher % shots. Take a look at the top 30 in each of these categories. How many PG's do we see on the list? 2 on TS%. 3 of EFG%. One is Curry (Pretty good 3pt. shooter) Two, Dj Augustine (Don't think anyone is pushing for him here) and the last is someone I guess the EEG%/TS% are really hoping we get in the off season. (Irving)

Still don't get the need to prove how bad this kid is with all these "Advanced Stats" same that were trying to convince fans or Franks value?

because otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges. techno just compared career FG% for DJ and the likes of Harden.

If you like that comparison, have at it. The above was not a deep look into DS, you missed the point entirely and brought up something else

Thats fair. Agree with you that comparing his FG% with other positions, best in the league does not speak positively or negatively about his play. Maintaining my point about EFG% in that regard.

In terms of better ways to gauge DSJR or PG's, my point, feel you have to look at more important variables. I have coached PG's that are great spot up shooters but cannot stay in the position due to their inabilty to push tempo, manage turnovers or get into the paint and create shots for others. Some cant take the pressure and complexity of the PG position. For me, if qe are to talk about how well Smith is doing we have to take that into account. Managing a game, turnovers and his ability to ignite an offense is more important than how many clicks better his shot is than others. IMO.

You have a pg that can shoot?! Send them my way, please. We're playing in the HS regional finals tom against our rivals....I could use a knock down shooter

Think he may be too old for high school. Lol

Thats awesome! Lots of luck to you and your team.

Thanks

“It’s much more about the perception of the organization,” Fizdale said. “What I think we’ve done together with Steve [Mills] and Scott [Perry], Mr. Dolan and myself an
BigDaddyG
Posts: 26402
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

2/8/2019  9:40 PM
Missed the game again, but Smith's line looked good, free throws aside. Got to judge each player in a vacuum now.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CrushAlot
Posts: 57960
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/8/2019  10:10 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
Posts: 57960
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/8/2019  10:40 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
technomaster
Posts: 22291
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
2/8/2019  11:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/9/2019  1:04 AM
Sweet game. As much as we were impressed by Frank’s defense last year, there’s something to be said about players that put pressure on the defense.

31 points on 15 shots. Now we can criticize his poor ft shooting (11/19!) as costing us the game. Not that we wanted to win.

After seeing Trier’s skills at putting the ball in the hoop, it seems as if DSJ can do that too. DSJ looks like legit lottery talent.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
Dennis Smith Jr

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.