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nykshaknbake
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1/10/2019  12:56 PM
It all depends on the price. I like Rubio but defenders tend to sag off of him because of his shooting. It might be balanced out by his defense and passing if he comes a a reasonable contract. If Mudiay can be signed cheap and we get a marquee FA I think that's the right move. With the salary cap it's not always about who's the best player at a position but what's the best combo you can fit as a team under the cap. I worry Rubio will cost premium money while not really having a premium impact.
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Cartman718
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1/10/2019  11:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2019  11:54 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:It all depends on the price. I like Rubio but defenders tend to sag off of him because of his shooting. It might be balanced out by his defense and passing if he comes a a reasonable contract. If Mudiay can be signed cheap and we get a marquee FA I think that's the right move. With the salary cap it's not always about who's the best player at a position but what's the best combo you can fit as a team under the cap. I worry Rubio will cost premium money while not really having a premium impact.

Exactly, if we can get a marquee FA, can you imagine with KP + Marquee FA...we don't really need an all star PG after that. and Rubio is no all star. but probably would cost twice the money Mudiay would. Also, if there is a serious PG available and ready to produce later in the 1st round (very very rare), I am ok with having that PG on the team as well. When was the last time that happened, where a late first round or early 2nd round pick became a serviceable PG right off the bat.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
knicks1248
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1/11/2019  11:27 AM
It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

ES
Nalod
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1/11/2019  11:35 AM
knicks1248 wrote:It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

Scares me when we agree!!!
But the question is does the current state dictate all that Fiz is capable to coach at? Did he dumb it down to meet his roster for a reason?
Guys playing for contract won't play team ball. Why not develop them and evaluate based on that talent. Doe coaches at this level understand players that can cannot play system ball? Mike Beasley could not. Anthony Randolp, Tim Thomas.......all real talent guys could not. We tried.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
meloshouldgo
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1/11/2019  12:04 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

Scares me when we agree!!!
But the question is does the current state dictate all that Fiz is capable to coach at? Did he dumb it down to meet his roster for a reason?
Guys playing for contract won't play team ball. Why not develop them and evaluate based on that talent. Doe coaches at this level understand players that can cannot play system ball? Mike Beasley could not. Anthony Randolp, Tim Thomas.......all real talent guys could not. We tried.

Because it's a complete waste of time and resources and doesn't actually yield anything positive. If you are truly committed to building up a team that plays structured basketball from the ground up, you don't want to waste time chasing these distractions. You focus on getting players based on "FIT" not based on talent alone or lottery pick position. And you build those players up by instilling the system into their everyday game from day 1. What we are doing is chasing ghosts of past lottery picks to see what sticks. And in the process we're are wasting whole seasons developing players with low ceilings because they are never going to be able to flourish in system basketball. This is just painful to watch.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
knicks1248
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1/11/2019  2:59 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

Scares me when we agree!!!
But the question is does the current state dictate all that Fiz is capable to coach at? Did he dumb it down to meet his roster for a reason?
Guys playing for contract won't play team ball. Why not develop them and evaluate based on that talent. Doe coaches at this level understand players that can cannot play system ball? Mike Beasley could not. Anthony Randolp, Tim Thomas.......all real talent guys could not. We tried.

Because it's a complete waste of time and resources and doesn't actually yield anything positive. If you are truly committed to building up a team that plays structured basketball from the ground up, you don't want to waste time chasing these distractions. You focus on getting players based on "FIT" not based on talent alone or lottery pick position. And you build those players up by instilling the system into their everyday game from day 1. What we are doing is chasing ghosts of past lottery picks to see what sticks. And in the process we're are wasting whole seasons developing players with low ceilings because they are never going to be able to flourish in system basketball. This is just painful to watch.

The only thing fiz has ever been credit it for is his relationship with players, and how to get through to them (he's a communication major). This was the exact opposite of JH, who never really could connect with his players on a down-to-earth level.

the problem is, thats only 1/5th of what you need from a head coach, so unless we have a team full of high IQ vets,the struggles will continue, like when KIDD left woodson.

ES
Nalod
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1/11/2019  3:25 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

Scares me when we agree!!!
But the question is does the current state dictate all that Fiz is capable to coach at? Did he dumb it down to meet his roster for a reason?
Guys playing for contract won't play team ball. Why not develop them and evaluate based on that talent. Doe coaches at this level understand players that can cannot play system ball? Mike Beasley could not. Anthony Randolp, Tim Thomas.......all real talent guys could not. We tried.

Because it's a complete waste of time and resources and doesn't actually yield anything positive. If you are truly committed to building up a team that plays structured basketball from the ground up, you don't want to waste time chasing these distractions. You focus on getting players based on "FIT" not based on talent alone or lottery pick position. And you build those players up by instilling the system into their everyday game from day 1. What we are doing is chasing ghosts of past lottery picks to see what sticks. And in the process we're are wasting whole seasons developing players with low ceilings because they are never going to be able to flourish in system basketball. This is just painful to watch.

In principle I agree. But if its Beas or others in their late 20's its just filler. I agree and ugly two.
If a player is 22 its ugly, but your asking them to just produce in the NBA where they have not before. Still Ugly. U-G-L-y and no alibi!
with an infusion of talent, KP, Another blue chip rook and perhaps elite free agent talent its a whole new ball game. Hardaway the chucker and no assist mudiay have to blend in. Since Hardaway is likely a 3rd or 4th option its not a priority to install a system based on him. KP steps on the court that's a whole other thing.
That's just my take. Its ugly and Im watching less and less games these days.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
CrushAlot
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1/11/2019  4:56 PM
A couple of articles talking about talking about the coaching staff and the Knicks philosophy towards second draft players. https://nypost.com/2019/01/10/benching-behind-mario-hezonjas-sudden-breakthrough/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/aewpiy/ian_begley_can_the_knicks_cash_in_on_other_teams/?st=JQSKWDQB&sh=fc8e0cca
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
meloshouldgo
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1/11/2019  6:26 PM
Nalod wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

Scares me when we agree!!!
But the question is does the current state dictate all that Fiz is capable to coach at? Did he dumb it down to meet his roster for a reason?
Guys playing for contract won't play team ball. Why not develop them and evaluate based on that talent. Doe coaches at this level understand players that can cannot play system ball? Mike Beasley could not. Anthony Randolp, Tim Thomas.......all real talent guys could not. We tried.

Because it's a complete waste of time and resources and doesn't actually yield anything positive. If you are truly committed to building up a team that plays structured basketball from the ground up, you don't want to waste time chasing these distractions. You focus on getting players based on "FIT" not based on talent alone or lottery pick position. And you build those players up by instilling the system into their everyday game from day 1. What we are doing is chasing ghosts of past lottery picks to see what sticks. And in the process we're are wasting whole seasons developing players with low ceilings because they are never going to be able to flourish in system basketball. This is just painful to watch.

In principle I agree. But if its Beas or others in their late 20's its just filler. I agree and ugly two.
If a player is 22 its ugly, but your asking them to just produce in the NBA where they have not before. Still Ugly. U-G-L-y and no alibi!
with an infusion of talent, KP, Another blue chip rook and perhaps elite free agent talent its a whole new ball game. Hardaway the chucker and no assist mudiay have to blend in. Since Hardaway is likely a 3rd or 4th option its not a priority to install a system based on him. KP steps on the court that's a whole other thing.
That's just my take. Its ugly and Im watching less and less games these days.

If you want to build a culture, every player on the team needs to have the same values and play the same structure. If you stay making excuses for third and fourth options you'll just as soon have others think why should I try so hard on defense when this other guy gets minutes just for chucking? Think Livingstone or Iggy takes plays off on defense for GS? Or keep chucking after starting 2-9 from the field? We may not be able to get the high quality depth and we are forced to sign scrubs. That doesn't mean we then start wasting our seasons to develop them. Fix has shown zero ability to do anything as a coach other than encourage mindless chucking. I am not asking for wins or beautiful basketball, I am asking for prioritizing the development of the players we have invested in.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Vmart
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1/11/2019  6:45 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

Scares me when we agree!!!
But the question is does the current state dictate all that Fiz is capable to coach at? Did he dumb it down to meet his roster for a reason?
Guys playing for contract won't play team ball. Why not develop them and evaluate based on that talent. Doe coaches at this level understand players that can cannot play system ball? Mike Beasley could not. Anthony Randolp, Tim Thomas.......all real talent guys could not. We tried.

Because it's a complete waste of time and resources and doesn't actually yield anything positive. If you are truly committed to building up a team that plays structured basketball from the ground up, you don't want to waste time chasing these distractions. You focus on getting players based on "FIT" not based on talent alone or lottery pick position. And you build those players up by instilling the system into their everyday game from day 1. What we are doing is chasing ghosts of past lottery picks to see what sticks. And in the process we're are wasting whole seasons developing players with low ceilings because they are never going to be able to flourish in system basketball. This is just painful to watch.

In principle I agree. But if its Beas or others in their late 20's its just filler. I agree and ugly two.
If a player is 22 its ugly, but your asking them to just produce in the NBA where they have not before. Still Ugly. U-G-L-y and no alibi!
with an infusion of talent, KP, Another blue chip rook and perhaps elite free agent talent its a whole new ball game. Hardaway the chucker and no assist mudiay have to blend in. Since Hardaway is likely a 3rd or 4th option its not a priority to install a system based on him. KP steps on the court that's a whole other thing.
That's just my take. Its ugly and Im watching less and less games these days.

If you want to build a culture, every player on the team needs to have the same values and play the same structure. If you stay making excuses for third and fourth options you'll just as soon have others think why should I try so hard on defense when this other guy gets minutes just for chucking? Think Livingstone or Iggy takes plays off on defense for GS? Or keep chucking after starting 2-9 from the field? We may not be able to get the high quality depth and we are forced to sign scrubs. That doesn't mean we then start wasting our seasons to develop them. Fix has shown zero ability to do anything as a coach other than encourage mindless chucking. I am not asking for wins or beautiful basketball, I am asking for prioritizing the development of the players we have invested in.

I agree with your view. This team is learning nothing but bad habits.

knicks1248
Posts: 38423
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1/11/2019  8:55 PM
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

Scares me when we agree!!!
But the question is does the current state dictate all that Fiz is capable to coach at? Did he dumb it down to meet his roster for a reason?
Guys playing for contract won't play team ball. Why not develop them and evaluate based on that talent. Doe coaches at this level understand players that can cannot play system ball? Mike Beasley could not. Anthony Randolp, Tim Thomas.......all real talent guys could not. We tried.

Because it's a complete waste of time and resources and doesn't actually yield anything positive. If you are truly committed to building up a team that plays structured basketball from the ground up, you don't want to waste time chasing these distractions. You focus on getting players based on "FIT" not based on talent alone or lottery pick position. And you build those players up by instilling the system into their everyday game from day 1. What we are doing is chasing ghosts of past lottery picks to see what sticks. And in the process we're are wasting whole seasons developing players with low ceilings because they are never going to be able to flourish in system basketball. This is just painful to watch.

In principle I agree. But if its Beas or others in their late 20's its just filler. I agree and ugly two.
If a player is 22 its ugly, but your asking them to just produce in the NBA where they have not before. Still Ugly. U-G-L-y and no alibi!
with an infusion of talent, KP, Another blue chip rook and perhaps elite free agent talent its a whole new ball game. Hardaway the chucker and no assist mudiay have to blend in. Since Hardaway is likely a 3rd or 4th option its not a priority to install a system based on him. KP steps on the court that's a whole other thing.
That's just my take. Its ugly and Im watching less and less games these days.

If you want to build a culture, every player on the team needs to have the same values and play the same structure. If you stay making excuses for third and fourth options you'll just as soon have others think why should I try so hard on defense when this other guy gets minutes just for chucking? Think Livingstone or Iggy takes plays off on defense for GS? Or keep chucking after starting 2-9 from the field? We may not be able to get the high quality depth and we are forced to sign scrubs. That doesn't mean we then start wasting our seasons to develop them. Fix has shown zero ability to do anything as a coach other than encourage mindless chucking. I am not asking for wins or beautiful basketball, I am asking for prioritizing the development of the players we have invested in.

I agree with your view. This team is learning nothing but bad habits.


Just go out there and do you, that's the philosophy that's what makes him a players coach
ES
arkrud
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1/11/2019  11:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/11/2019  11:34 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:It's really hard to judge what kind of PG we need when we can't even tell what kind of system we have.

As far as I cant tell, If he has the ability to go one on one..your hired.

which if you watch the knicks play this season, the ball movement, the screens, the cuts from players are soooooooooooooooooooooo weak and lazy, that you will be hard press to blame that entirely on the PG

Scares me when we agree!!!
But the question is does the current state dictate all that Fiz is capable to coach at? Did he dumb it down to meet his roster for a reason?
Guys playing for contract won't play team ball. Why not develop them and evaluate based on that talent. Doe coaches at this level understand players that can cannot play system ball? Mike Beasley could not. Anthony Randolp, Tim Thomas.......all real talent guys could not. We tried.

Because it's a complete waste of time and resources and doesn't actually yield anything positive. If you are truly committed to building up a team that plays structured basketball from the ground up, you don't want to waste time chasing these distractions. You focus on getting players based on "FIT" not based on talent alone or lottery pick position. And you build those players up by instilling the system into their everyday game from day 1. What we are doing is chasing ghosts of past lottery picks to see what sticks. And in the process we're are wasting whole seasons developing players with low ceilings because they are never going to be able to flourish in system basketball. This is just painful to watch.

In principle I agree. But if its Beas or others in their late 20's its just filler. I agree and ugly two.
If a player is 22 its ugly, but your asking them to just produce in the NBA where they have not before. Still Ugly. U-G-L-y and no alibi!
with an infusion of talent, KP, Another blue chip rook and perhaps elite free agent talent its a whole new ball game. Hardaway the chucker and no assist mudiay have to blend in. Since Hardaway is likely a 3rd or 4th option its not a priority to install a system based on him. KP steps on the court that's a whole other thing.
That's just my take. Its ugly and Im watching less and less games these days.

If you want to build a culture, every player on the team needs to have the same values and play the same structure. If you stay making excuses for third and fourth options you'll just as soon have others think why should I try so hard on defense when this other guy gets minutes just for chucking? Think Livingstone or Iggy takes plays off on defense for GS? Or keep chucking after starting 2-9 from the field? We may not be able to get the high quality depth and we are forced to sign scrubs. That doesn't mean we then start wasting our seasons to develop them. Fix has shown zero ability to do anything as a coach other than encourage mindless chucking. I am not asking for wins or beautiful basketball, I am asking for prioritizing the development of the players we have invested in.

I agree with your view. This team is learning nothing but bad habits.


Just go out there and do you, that's the philosophy that's what makes him a players coach

We invested in... what player?
I see progress in our own picks, Trier, and Vanley...
Last 2 are not investments also. We owe them nothing next season.
TJR is not an investment, it wastement, but we cannot do anything about it.
This was the last thing Mills did before realizing finally that it is not his cap of tee to build bbal teams.
There is nothing to run this year as we will have very few from this group in NY in 2-3 years.
Individual development and evaluation are the only 2 thing which were possible this season.
And this is what they do. The rest is for the general fans population to hang around MSG.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
HofstraBBall
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1/13/2019  8:33 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Cherry picking data is pointless. Last game he had 4 dimes and 3TOs. So what?
Focus on a season, not 5 games.

That means for the rest of the road trip he averaged 7 assists and .5 turnovers a game.

I can do that math genius, I posted about a road trip being too small a sample size.


Good to hear about your math skills. Had the impression you might need some help.

His calculations have always been questionable. Thats why he is eraser boy.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
SupremeCommander
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1/14/2019  12:15 PM
If Mudiay had went to SMU he probably would've been a top five pick and I remember some thought he should have been the #1 overall. This guy has the raw talent to be a star in the league. I think he chose poorly by going to China and hadn't really started to develop himself until recently. I think Mudiay and Fiz work well together. I think we have so much more to gain by retaining him and developing him than we do by letting him walk. It has happened throughout NBA history where teams give up on lotto picks that are PGs and then become stars. i would rather bet on Mudiay than, say, Burke because Mudiay measures well and isn't a shoot first PG (I know they are more fashionable now but I prefer my points be good at distributing the ball instead of shooting it)
Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
arkrud
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1/14/2019  12:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/14/2019  12:23 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:If Mudiay had went to SMU he probably would've been a top five pick and I remember some thought he should have been the #1 overall. This guy has the raw talent to be a star in the league. I think he chose poorly by going to China and hadn't really started to develop himself until recently. I think Mudiay and Fiz work well together. I think we have so much more to gain by retaining him and developing him than we do by letting him walk. It has happened throughout NBA history where teams give up on lotto picks that are PGs and then become stars. i would rather bet on Mudiay than, say, Burke because Mudiay measures well and isn't a shoot first PG (I know they are more fashionable now but I prefer my points be good at distributing the ball instead of shooting it)

I don't think the brains can be developed at age 24.
There is no problems with Mud physical and his bbal skills.
The problems are with decision making on offense and total absence of defensive awareness.
You can name a lot of PGs developed late into stars or very good players because of their feel for the game and bbal smarts.
Usually they were set back by physical development issues, injuries, shooting and finishing.
It is totally opposite for Mud.
He put his body in order and improved his offense to the extend he is NBA worthy situational backup.
But this is the ceiling for him considering his bbal IQ.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
knicks1248
Posts: 38423
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1/14/2019  12:47 PM
we have one legit starter on this roster, and that's KP.

knox has the potential, but he looks more Al harrington, then KD

ES

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