NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:they'll get him. If he's walking away, how do you say no to something like Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown?

The Laker and Brandon Ingram and assets say "hello"

I think Tatum would be included. Also, who do the Lakers really have? I don't think Ingram is that highly regarded anymore. Not like Tatum at least. Kuzma is good but that's really all they have right now.

I think the situation is a little more complex. I agree that the Celtics have more to offer BUT it comes down to where Anthony Davis wants to re-sign. And I personally don't think it's a coincidence he's signed with Rich Paul AFTER LeBron went to L.A. or have publicized meeting with each other in public. So do the Celtics include Tatum if Davis is committed to going to LAL?

And if the Pelicans decide to move him this season, the Celtics could not acquire him in a deal without finding a destination for Kyrie Irving? Would Davis want to be there without Kyrie? Doubtful. All these converging factors make the Lakers the most likely destination in my opinion. I think Ball and Ingram gets the deal done.

The Lakers got a soft pass for tampering with Paul George. While it's not publicly discussed, George could not sign with the Lakers without massive fallout. He could have in a legal sense, but the league would have basically hosed the Lakers worse than the Timberwolves got hosed for Joe Smith. Rob Pelinka was not traditionally groomed to be a GM, he is/was a former agent and apparently he cut the basic tampering issue over the line too many times. Everyone tampers, but there's an ******* way to do it and the league only ignores some kinds of tampering, not all.

What's going on with AD is open and "Fuck You And The Horse You Rode In On" type tampering. LBJ runs Klutch Sports. It's not some wild secret. Plenty of people in the league would just ignore it if it was handled softly. Instead LBJ is running that **** in people's faces. He's a player recruiting another player who is in the same agency, that he owns. In public. The owners have a massive problem with this. When a NBA team goes for sale, usually it's a team struggling. Rarely is it a large market team ( They had to railroad Sterling to get him out) New prospective owners aren't keen on paying a record price to know their new shiny small market team is going to get gifted a high lottery pick only to be a farm team for a larger market and have no chance to retain any elite drafted player.

No record sale price means no upticked valuation of all NBA teams as a whole. The Decision was horrible for the league. Increasing the value of one team, but gutting two others is not good business. Many teams in the league already have attendance problems ( Knicks are immune) and all this is not helping.

Pelicans don't like the Lakers assets. This is widely known around the league. Also they despise the open tampering. ( I can't blame them. LBJ is acting like a total ******* here. This is ****ed up beyond all measure for NO as a franchise )

Do you know what the owners wouldn't stop talking about during the labor war right after The Decision? LBJ and Rich Paul ignored an NBA owner making a pitch so they could watch videos on Paul's phone right in front of the owner, his front office and denigrated that entire franchise. So the owners kept turning the screws on the players during the negotiations. But LBJ wasn't the only one, Biedrins, Eddy Curry, Rip Hamilton, Tracy McGrady, Baron Davis and others helped fuel the owners anger.

LBJ is literally the dumbest person in all of pro sports. He keeps doing **** that will end up inciting labor wars and getting the NBAPA ****ed for generations to come. And everyone in the sports media has to bite their tongue and pretend he's some kind of genius. Jalen Rose had to look at a camera with a straight face and read the script saying everyone else in the NBA were playing checkers, but LBJ was playing chess. And he had to say it without laughing out loud. He just barely did it.

AD has two years left on his contract after this season, but that 2nd year is a player option. He also has a 15 percent trade kicker. LBJ has put NO in a position where they must save some kind of face, meaning any deal would need to gut the living **** out of the Lakers roster. But this is what AD wants, to be repped by a guy who bought drugs with a ****ing check. I'm sure some guys here have done some kind of drugs in their life at some point. How would you feel if your drug dealer asked for a check? How would he feel if you offered him a check? If you knew someone who paid for drugs with a check, would you think, this is a really smart ass mother****er? Like the guy in Pulp Fiction who knew there was no Quarter Pounder in Amsterdam because of the metric system?

Playing chess, my ass.

NardDogNation wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Ainge's magic formula is to trade the most likely damaged goods for picks. Then sign FAs based on the reputation of the team to contend. They also draft impeccably.

Ainge would trade his mother.

But the depth on their team is helping to depreciate the value of those players. Those draft picks won't be as good as they should be. What do they do then?

And Ainge's draft history is checkered. Everyone remembers Jayson Tatum but people conveniently forget the James Young, Gershon Yabulsala, RJ Hunter's of yesteryear.

With the James Young pick he could've had Capela or Gary Harris so that was definitely a miss. And of course a lot of teams passed on Jokic (several times) in that draft.

CrushAlot wrote:

Welpee wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Ainge's magic formula is to trade the most likely damaged goods for picks. Then sign FAs based on the reputation of the team to contend. They also draft impeccably.

Ainge would trade his mother.

But the depth on their team is helping to depreciate the value of those players. Those draft picks won't be as good as they should be. What do they do then?

And Ainge's draft history is checkered. Everyone remembers Jayson Tatum but people conveniently forget the James Young, Gershon Yabulsala, RJ Hunter's of yesteryear.

But to be fair, you have to look at who was available after those picks to properly judge his drafting. For example, what player of note was available who he should've taken with the Hunter pick? Same with Yabulsala.

With the James Young pick he could've had Capela or Gary Harris so that was definitely a miss. And of course a lot of teams passed on Jokic (several times) in that draft.

Currently the Celtics have picks 13,14, 20 and their own pick at 23 for this years draft. They have a lot of options with their roster and draft picks and definitely can give the Pels the best package. I don't see the Pels trading Davis until after the season when the Celtics can give the best package.

CrushAlot wrote:

Welpee wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Ainge's magic formula is to trade the most likely damaged goods for picks. Then sign FAs based on the reputation of the team to contend. They also draft impeccably.

Ainge would trade his mother.

But the depth on their team is helping to depreciate the value of those players. Those draft picks won't be as good as they should be. What do they do then?

And Ainge's draft history is checkered. Everyone remembers Jayson Tatum but people conveniently forget the James Young, Gershon Yabulsala, RJ Hunter's of yesteryear.

But to be fair, you have to look at who was available after those picks to properly judge his drafting. For example, what player of note was available who he should've taken with the Hunter pick? Same with Yabulsala.

With the James Young pick he could've had Capela or Gary Harris so that was definitely a miss. And of course a lot of teams passed on Jokic (several times) in that draft.

Currently the Celtics have picks 13,14, 20 and their own pick at 23 for this years draft. They have a lot of options with their roster and draft picks and definitely can give the Pels the best package. I don't see the Pels trading Davis until after the season when the Celtics can give the best package.

In order to get the best overall package, Al Horford needs to be moved to NO in the deal. The Celtics cannot afford Horford and AD on the same roster at their cap hits. Horford has a player option, he might opt out if he can get a much longer term deal with a higher overall payout than if he hit FA a year later.

Celtics would give more in trade assets to move Horford instead of Hayward, meaning it needs to happen before the offseason. Given AD has a player option in the last year of his current contract, the Celtics would get at least two hard pushes for the Finals from the Eastern Conference. Waiting for the offseason drives the price down ( he's a risk as a one year rental, he's a Klutch Sports client, no one will trust anything he says)

BigRedDog wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:...the point is that the Celtics might be forced to surrender some of the current talent on their roster and we should position ourselves to get them. I still think Jaylen Brown is a star in this league with the right opportunity despite a real-plus/minus close to the bottom of the league. If we're patient, can we realistically wait for him to become a free agent and make him an offer the Celtics can't match?

Nah I wouldn't give up a pick for Rozier or Brown at the moment. I don't feel we should look to move future picks until after or during the draft. With the target of adding a Zion, Barrett, Morant in the draft. Then using the future pick to land another piece if Hardaway can be packaged in that deal. Then we preserve enough cap to add a FA as well. Meaning top 3 pick, trade for proven player, and FA signing.

I tend to be a hardliner when it comes to giving up picks. We've had so many boneheaded decisions involving them that we could have built and re-built a perennial playoff team had we just kept them in the first place. But if I could get Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown for our pick this year, I'd definitely do it. Outside of Zion, you're basically hoping the rest of the draft could develop what a Jaylen Brown already is. And then there is the obvious fact that both players better fit the timeline of Kristaps Porzingis, especially if Kevin Durant is really in play. Whatever the case, those two would round out our starting lineup nicely and we would still have the ability to add talent around them....

G: Terry Rozier
G: Frank Ntilikina
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Kevin Knox
C: Kristaps Porzingis

No way do I think this happens, don't think Ainge would do it but if I can't get Zion( esp) and probably Barrett, then I would definitely trade the #1 for Brown and Rozier. That is a steal. Like I said Boston probably has 4 #1 draft picks this year. They aren't looking to get another pick.

Quality trumps quantity in the NBA. And the reality is that with the Celtics depth and payroll, the last thing they need are filler-talent with guaranteed money. However, our pick offers the opportunity to recover some of the on-court value that gets lost in moving a talent the magnitude of a Jaylen Brown, at the cost-control level of a rookie contract. Those late picks won't offer that especially in a draft rumored to be one of the worst-all time outside of the top 4-6 picks.

Welpee wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fwk00 wrote:Ainge's magic formula is to trade the most likely damaged goods for picks. Then sign FAs based on the reputation of the team to contend. They also draft impeccably.

Ainge would trade his mother.

But the depth on their team is helping to depreciate the value of those players. Those draft picks won't be as good as they should be. What do they do then?

And Ainge's draft history is checkered. Everyone remembers Jayson Tatum but people conveniently forget the James Young, Gershon Yabulsala, RJ Hunter's of yesteryear.

But to be fair, you have to look at who was available after those picks to properly judge his drafting. For example, what player of note was available who he should've taken with the Hunter pick? Same with Yabulsala.

With the James Young pick he could've had Capela or Gary Harris so that was definitely a miss. And of course a lot of teams passed on Jokic (several times) in that draft.

Okay. Then let's look at the players selected after the aforementioned players.

After RJ Hunter was picked: Cedi Osman, Montrezl Harrell, Josh Richardson and Norman Powell were still on the board.

After Yabusele was picked: Caris LeVert, Pascal Siakam, Dejounte Murray, Skal Labissiere, Malcolm Brogdon, DeAndre Bembry and Patrick McCaw were still on the board.

Danny Ainge is obviously one of the best GM's we've seen but he has his flaws with the draft; which have partially been mitigated by how high he's been selecting and by the sheer volume of picks he's had at his disposal (3-4 on almost an annual basis).

And lost in all of this is how incredibly skilled Brad Stephens as well as his coaching staff have been. There are only a few coaching staffs in the league more adept at refining and developing talent, which is at the core for the success of those draft picks.

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:they'll get him. If he's walking away, how do you say no to something like Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown?

The Laker and Brandon Ingram and assets say "hello"

I think Tatum would be included. Also, who do the Lakers really have? I don't think Ingram is that highly regarded anymore. Not like Tatum at least. Kuzma is good but that's really all they have right now.

I think the situation is a little more complex. I agree that the Celtics have more to offer BUT it comes down to where Anthony Davis wants to re-sign. And I personally don't think it's a coincidence he's signed with Rich Paul AFTER LeBron went to L.A. or have publicized meeting with each other in public. So do the Celtics include Tatum if Davis is committed to going to LAL?

And if the Pelicans decide to move him this season, the Celtics could not acquire him in a deal without finding a destination for Kyrie Irving? Would Davis want to be there without Kyrie? Doubtful. All these converging factors make the Lakers the most likely destination in my opinion. I think Ball and Ingram gets the deal done.

The Lakers got a soft pass for tampering with Paul George. While it's not publicly discussed, George could not sign with the Lakers without massive fallout. He could have in a legal sense, but the league would have basically hosed the Lakers worse than the Timberwolves got hosed for Joe Smith. Rob Pelinka was not traditionally groomed to be a GM, he is/was a former agent and apparently he cut the basic tampering issue over the line too many times. Everyone tampers, but there's an ******* way to do it and the league only ignores some kinds of tampering, not all.

What's going on with AD is open and "Fuck You And The Horse You Rode In On" type tampering. LBJ runs Klutch Sports. It's not some wild secret. Plenty of people in the league would just ignore it if it was handled softly. Instead LBJ is running that **** in people's faces. He's a player recruiting another player who is in the same agency, that he owns. In public. The owners have a massive problem with this. When a NBA team goes for sale, usually it's a team struggling. Rarely is it a large market team ( They had to railroad Sterling to get him out) New prospective owners aren't keen on paying a record price to know their new shiny small market team is going to get gifted a high lottery pick only to be a farm team for a larger market and have no chance to retain any elite drafted player.

No record sale price means no upticked valuation of all NBA teams as a whole. The Decision was horrible for the league. Increasing the value of one team, but gutting two others is not good business. Many teams in the league already have attendance problems ( Knicks are immune) and all this is not helping.

Pelicans don't like the Lakers assets. This is widely known around the league. Also they despise the open tampering. ( I can't blame them. LBJ is acting like a total ******* here. This is ****ed up beyond all measure for NO as a franchise )

Do you know what the owners wouldn't stop talking about during the labor war right after The Decision? LBJ and Rich Paul ignored an NBA owner making a pitch so they could watch videos on Paul's phone right in front of the owner, his front office and denigrated that entire franchise. So the owners kept turning the screws on the players during the negotiations. But LBJ wasn't the only one, Biedrins, Eddy Curry, Rip Hamilton, Tracy McGrady, Baron Davis and others helped fuel the owners anger.

LBJ is literally the dumbest person in all of pro sports. He keeps doing **** that will end up inciting labor wars and getting the NBAPA ****ed for generations to come. And everyone in the sports media has to bite their tongue and pretend he's some kind of genius. Jalen Rose had to look at a camera with a straight face and read the script saying everyone else in the NBA were playing checkers, but LBJ was playing chess. And he had to say it without laughing out loud. He just barely did it.

AD has two years left on his contract after this season, but that 2nd year is a player option. He also has a 15 percent trade kicker. LBJ has put NO in a position where they must save some kind of face, meaning any deal would need to gut the living **** out of the Lakers roster. But this is what AD wants, to be repped by a guy who bought drugs with a ****ing check. I'm sure some guys here have done some kind of drugs in their life at some point. How would you feel if your drug dealer asked for a check? How would he feel if you offered him a check? If you knew someone who paid for drugs with a check, would you think, this is a really smart ass mother****er? Like the guy in Pulp Fiction who knew there was no Quarter Pounder in Amsterdam because of the metric system?

Playing chess, my ass.

I think what LeBron James is doing is in poor taste. But who cares? Everyone already acknowledges that tampering frequently happens on all levels, so what difference does it make if he's public about it?

And to be honest, **** these whiny small market teams. They are routinely run poorly but cry foul when the repercussions of their bad decisions are realized. Top-to-bottom, the Pelicans have been a disaster. Name me a first round pick they've made that is actually a rotation-worthy player on their team. Name me a former-first round pick of theirs, other than Buddy Hield, that could be a rotation player in the league. No one can because they don't exist. And on top of that, they've been notoriously cheap; being one of the last teams to get a G-league affiliate, not providing the Pelicans with a proper practice facility or medical/training staff. It comes as no surprise that the bulk of their roster misses significant chunks of time due to injury. And they are upset that Davis wouldn't want to stay with them? That no other star player would want to play there despite having a generational talent? That their arena is half empty as a result of all these factors that are painfully obvious to their fanbase and world? They've had 8 years to get their **** together and haven't. Losing Davis will be on them and not because of anything LeBron does.

NardDogNation wrote:I wonder if Danny Ainge's long-term play will be to get Kyrie Irving under contract, to parlay him as a key component of the Davis trade? It must be clear to the Celtics that he is an empty-calorie ball player that doesn't contribute much in the way of wins. I'm even under the impression that they are a better team without him. In any case, a team as poorly run as the Pelicans would covet a player like Irving because of his theaterics both on and off of the basketball court. And with him under contract long-term, they could stave-off trade requests as they attempt to futiley build around him.

Would a re-signed Kyrie Irving, Al Horford, that Kings 2019 first round Pick, and their 3 other 2019 first round picks, future first round picks and possibly a Semi Ojeleye be enough to get both Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday?

That Celtics starting lineup would be incredibly impressive and possible title favorites...
G: Jrue Holiday
G: Marcus Smart
F: Jayson Tatum
F: Jaylen Brown
C: Anthony Davis

I suppose they could make the trade today if they wanted to. If Boston includes Gordon Hayward and add those four 2019 picks, it would make sense for both teams. The only impediment I'd imagine is the extra $13 million added to the Pelicans' payroll during a season they won't make the playoffs. Their is no realistic way for them to keep this team together beyond this season either but at least the picks would give them an ability to build with whatever is left of the players under contract and the free agents they re-sign.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9xd5ymf

Pelicans end up with the following rotation
STARTERS
G: Kyrie Irving
G: Etwuan Moore
F: Gordon Hayward
F: Nikola Mirotic
C: Al Horford
BENCH
PG: Elfrid Payton
G/F: Semi Ojeleye
F/C: Julius Randle
C: Robert Williams

Celtics end up with this rotation
STARTERS
G: Marcus Smart
G: Jrue Holiday
F: Jayson Tatum
F: Jaylen Brown
C: Anthony Davis
BENCH
G: Terry Rozier
F: Marcus Morris
F/C: Daniel Theis
C: Aaron Baynes