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Should/Could We Pursue Jrue Holiday Post-AD Trade?
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NardDogNation
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1/4/2019  12:32 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/4/2019  12:48 AM
I think he is a steady-hand and the type of veteran we'd need on this team in any eventuality. After Anthony Davis gets dealt, I'd have to imagine the Pelicans would make him available although I'm sure it would be a huge ask. Would Jrue Holiday be worth the assets it'd take to get him? Could we realistically get him without gutting our core? And what would the package have to include?

I don't want to bias any of the responses but I think he'd fit exceedingly well with Ntilikina. I also think that a key to the deal would be the inclusion of Mitchell Robinson- a Louisana native- as well as future draft picks and us taking back bad (albeit expiring contracts) like Solomon Hill.

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Knixkik
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1/4/2019  8:44 AM
Holiday is really good. He would most likely cost a major core piece (or 2) but anything is possible. I absolutely love his game.
SupremeCommander
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1/4/2019  9:40 AM
He's 28... I don't think the Knicks are interested. Seems to me they are trying to have all their core pieces be close to the same age
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arkrud
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1/4/2019  10:12 AM
Not a building block but rather finishing touch piece.
So we are not the team to benefit from him and he will not benefit from this too.
I doubt his agent will be into it and he will be happy to join early stages rebuilding team.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
fwk00
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1/4/2019  3:32 PM
arkrud wrote:Not a building block but rather finishing touch piece.
So we are not the team to benefit from him and he will not benefit from this too.
I doubt his agent will be into it and he will be happy to join early stages rebuilding team.

This is an important point. The Knicks are strictly a rebuilding team. Visions of acquiring players who want to be on winning teams is missing the point. Those days are just over the horizon. For now you build culture, competence and acquire raw talent.

NardDogNation
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1/4/2019  3:59 PM
fwk00 wrote:
arkrud wrote:Not a building block but rather finishing touch piece.
So we are not the team to benefit from him and he will not benefit from this too.
I doubt his agent will be into it and he will be happy to join early stages rebuilding team.

This is an important point. The Knicks are strictly a rebuilding team. Visions of acquiring players who want to be on winning teams is missing the point. Those days are just over the horizon. For now you build culture, competence and acquire raw talent.

...and yet here we are doing our damnedest to clear cap space for a 30-year old Kevin Durant. That doesn't strike me as a franchise that fancies itself as a "rebuilding team".

NardDogNation
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1/4/2019  4:03 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:He's 28... I don't think the Knicks are interested. Seems to me they are trying to have all their core pieces be close to the same age

Every young team needs a veteran leader that can steady the ship. I think Holiday checks out as that type of ball player. Plus, he's pretty good at quaterbacking offense, which can help improve the looks for our younger players and accelerate their development.

TripleThreat
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1/4/2019  5:52 PM
NardDogNation wrote:I think he is a steady-hand and the type of veteran we'd need on this team in any eventuality. After Anthony Davis gets dealt, I'd have to imagine the Pelicans would make him available although I'm sure it would be a huge ask. Would Jrue Holiday be worth the assets it'd take to get him? Could we realistically get him without gutting our core? And what would the package have to include?

I don't want to bias any of the responses but I think he'd fit exceedingly well with Ntilikina. I also think that a key to the deal would be the inclusion of Mitchell Robinson- a Louisana native- as well as future draft picks and us taking back bad (albeit expiring contracts) like Solomon Hill.


Holiday has three more years after this one at 25 million-ish AAV.

If the Pelican's traded him, it would be a contract dump post AD. Kanter, Dotson and Frank N or Lee, Frank N, Hezonja and a first. Not saying I'd do those trades, but that's what it would take, if that was NO's best set of options.

Holiday and Zinger could get this team to the playoffs every year ( assuming Zinger health) but they'd get bounced after the first round.

Not a huge Holiday fan myself but I can see some "marketing" logic in the move ( i.e. if the goal is to retain Zinger) Actual "winning" logic is another story.

I think with good drafting, the Knicks can get 60 percent of Holidays production at 15 percent of the cost. The last two years of that deal will be a sharp decline phase.

He would of course, DEMAND, the Knicks sign Justin Holiday too. So it's not just a one player situation.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
Cartman718
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1/4/2019  11:52 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:He's 28... I don't think the Knicks are interested. Seems to me they are trying to have all their core pieces be close to the same age
That’s the key
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TripleThreat
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1/5/2019  2:51 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:He's 28... I don't think the Knicks are interested. Seems to me they are trying to have all their core pieces be close to the same age


Any team would be interested depending on cost.

Noah, today, is a declining PEDs popping ******* who can't stay healthy. ( This is also considering in his prime, he was an incredible player with an incredible motor and one of the best BBIQ players in league history)

But for the league minimum, he's a pretty good value. If he was just to give you 6-10 minutes off the bench, he could be helpful.

Everything is relative to what it costs. If NO wanted Kanter/Hezonja and a protected first, ( basically salary relief), that's not such a bad deal. I don't think they make that trade, but it's a factor of trade cost once you get past the AAV/contract length.

I keep hearing about "timeline" scenarios and that's only relevant in the "Herschel Walker Situation" Where you have one player who is worth something in trade and nothing else. Literally nothing else. The Knicks had this with younger Melo. In every other situation, you simply consider what is in front of you. If Durant wants to be a Knick for just cap space, you sign him. Fuck any timeline. You readjust to that situation.

If Durant says, I want to be a Celtic. Then Ainge is going to take his young player plan and say **** it. If he has to trade Brown and Tatum to get a now contender going, he'll do it. ( though it would take a ton to have to move Tatum)

Do you think Morey had a chance to trade for Harden and worried about a timeline?

You know who did do a timeline decision? Kahn, who signed Kevin Love for one year less because he stated he wanted to stagger the contract situation with future Rubio. What the **** was that all about?

Take the talent, if it's the best market based decision/value and figure out the rest later. This is what people didn't understand about Hinkie and the 76ers taking three big men in a row. Noel, Okafor and Embiid. They felt those were the best values on the board ( though Hinkie wanted Zinger and not Okafor and the owner overruled him) They were going to take the talent and figure the rest out later. If the Knicks could draft an exact Zinger clone, do you think they will pass on a potential big who can defend the rim, space the floor and create his own shot at an elite level ( in theory)? Who gives a **** if said player is redundant, take that talent and figure the rest out later.

Timelines only matter when you only have one great player surrounded by nothing and draft/asset depleted and the only way to reload is to trade said player. Other than that, you take it one opportunity at a time.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
NardDogNation
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1/6/2019  2:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/6/2019  8:02 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I think he is a steady-hand and the type of veteran we'd need on this team in any eventuality. After Anthony Davis gets dealt, I'd have to imagine the Pelicans would make him available although I'm sure it would be a huge ask. Would Jrue Holiday be worth the assets it'd take to get him? Could we realistically get him without gutting our core? And what would the package have to include?

I don't want to bias any of the responses but I think he'd fit exceedingly well with Ntilikina. I also think that a key to the deal would be the inclusion of Mitchell Robinson- a Louisana native- as well as future draft picks and us taking back bad (albeit expiring contracts) like Solomon Hill.


Holiday has three more years after this one at 25 million-ish AAV.

If the Pelican's traded him, it would be a contract dump post AD. Kanter, Dotson and Frank N or Lee, Frank N, Hezonja and a first. Not saying I'd do those trades, but that's what it would take, if that was NO's best set of options.

Holiday and Zinger could get this team to the playoffs every year ( assuming Zinger health) but they'd get bounced after the first round.

Not a huge Holiday fan myself but I can see some "marketing" logic in the move ( i.e. if the goal is to retain Zinger) Actual "winning" logic is another story.

I think with good drafting, the Knicks can get 60 percent of Holidays production at 15 percent of the cost. The last two years of that deal will be a sharp decline phase.

He would of course, DEMAND, the Knicks sign Justin Holiday too. So it's not just a one player situation.

As talented as Anthony Davis is, Jrue Holiday has played a key role in keeping that talent-starved team competitive. I wouldn't confuse him for a star but he is a very useful player as a result of his versatility and his reputation as a good-locker room presence. And as we continue to funnel in youth, I think those are the types of qualities we need to help stabilize their growth as players as well as professionals. Jrue is a little older than I'd prefer but I still think he has enough runway to grow with the core pieces on this team.

As much as he is a valued player, including Frank Ntilikina would be a deal-breaker for me. I believe in Frank's potential and that we simply need to be patient with him. I'd counter by using a portion of our cap space to eat Solomon Hill's contract and/or other filler salaries involved in the Davis trade to give them more financial relief.

Should/Could We Pursue Jrue Holiday Post-AD Trade?

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