Posted by fishmike:

Sorry but you dont make that league without natural talent oozing from your pores.

Chris Dudely

And for the last 4 or 5 posts you keep arguing with me about how he might be working hard and he might be trying and that he does have talent but it still does not change the fact that he was and is just a jump shooter. I should've never started talking about how HARD he works. I never intended to argue about Houston's work ethic and I already have acknowledged that in one of my previous posts. Try and get of the topic about work ethic.

He might be trying hard and so might be Shandon Anderson but they are both what they are. He came out in papers in 2001 saying that his game is to jump shoot hence my whole position on the issue is that he refuses to do anything else. I have not seen him consistently go for rebounds and/or assists for even one month. That is annoying.

If your position is that he lacks the ability to much else other than jump shooting, then you are saying exactly what I am saying.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Funny you bring up Ben Wallace, fishmike. Why does he "refuse" to add any offense in his arsenal? Guess what. He does try. He just isn't that good. He's not a good shooter, doesn't have many moves, although, occasionally, he does show flashes (Like Houston on defense) and his free throw shooting is a liability on all teams not named the Detroit Pistons.

If you really want to get technical, Ben Wallace is the anti Houston, in that he is all defense, and not much offense. Allan Houston is all offense, and not much defense. And for the last damn time, Allan Houston is a solid passer. No, he will never be as good a passer as most PGs, b/c that's not his game, by setting up the offense, although, he gets in the flow of it WITH his SOLID passing and great shooting.

The problem is that Houston is not all-offense. He is a jump shooter on offense! He is not as good of a passer as most of the SGs out there. If he is a solid passer, why does he never average more than 3 assists a game?

Now, about Allans defense and rebounding. YES, his whole career, he needed to step up with the rebounding. At one point, he was a very good leaper. He was in the dunk contest in his rookie year. That is an aspect of his game that deserves plenty of criticism. He certainly could have been a great rebounder for his size. As for his defense. YES, he HAS been making strides, b/4 the injury. He has been bodying up with his guys, and playing a lot more aggresive. His problem is that he's not quick, and gets in trouble, when guys beat him, w/o the ball, and when he gets caught in screens. That's due to a lack of quickness. He has quickness earlier in his career, but not anymore.

Earlier in his career, he got beat all the time, one on one, b/c of a lack of concentration. But as he lost the quickness, he gained strength and wisdom, and learned to make strides, and improve his defense to average, before the injury.

He just never was a good defender. Plain and simple.

ok

Silverfeul, I am sure you are a great person, but you get way too offended just when someone says "Allan Houston is good." Please, there are a lot worse things in life.

I dont get offended when people say Allan Houston is good. I get offended when people say Allan Houston is top 10 because he is not. He is a good jump shooter and thats it.
[quote]
When healthy, he's a top 10 SG and if you are not praying for his health, then you are blinded by your hatred.

Posted by Silverfuel:

I really F****ED up the quotes tags on the last post.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by fishmike:

Maybe if we maxed out Kurt we could expect him to be more athletic and taller.

Thats insulting. When have I ever made a statement like that? If Kurt got maxed out, I would expect him to rebound more and play better defense against premier forwards! I would also expect him to TRY and do things he can do but does not do like, TRY to get more blocks or TRY to get more offensive rebounds etc. As long as the effort is there, it is a lot less annoying.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Silverfeul, I think I say this on behalf of all Knick fans. There is no point in even talking to you.

Everything you seem to post about is how you think Allan Houston stinks. And now you are saying it's his fans that you hate. So basically, you hate a good % of the people on this site, yet you continue to post here.

If you hate Allan Houston fans, b/c they say he is a top 10 SG in the league, then my friend, you need to get things straightened out, b/c there are a lot more important things in life. You shouldn't even hate anything for that matter. What does hatred ever do?

And why you call us apologists is beyond me. I never understood that term in the first place. What ever just happened to being a fan, and not being a fan. But, I don't see the point in responding to your posts anymore, if you are just gonna act silly. I'm done.

Posted by TMS:

Houston will never lead this team to anything and he didnt.

just to be fair, he DID carry this team to a game 6 win against Reggie Miller's Pacers that put the Knicks into the Finals that year by scoring 30+ points & playing some solid defense against Reggie & pretty much shutting him down that day, all after Larry Johnson had been taken out of the game w/a knee injury early & Patrick Ewing was on the bench in street clothes w/an injury of his own...

i have a tape of the game if you'd like to refresh your memory.

Posted by fishmike:

a lot of the perception of Houston's effort and consistancy is matchups. He simply looks bad against certain players... Pierce and McGrady come to mind.

As for being top 10 when he was healthy he was certainly close. He did go to a (2?) all star game. He's not just a jump shooter. He's a jump shooter thats taken that one skill and turned it into a respectable scoring arsenal. His game is creating space for that jumper. He's not a slasher.. never has been. He HAS been a top 10 scorer in the NBA a couple years back.

Just like you hate apologists I get equally annoyed when people are dying to toss this guy to the curb because he's overpaid. God forbid he comes back healthy and people will quickly be reminded of how his one dimension totally changes the game. Ask Marbury if they could have used Houston's one dimension in Athens. No he's not a franchise player and never should have been paid as such, but he's a big time scorer and an impact player.