[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Inside Dish: The Knicks need Houston to thrive
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 5 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
9/20/2004  1:06 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:

Like I said in my previous post,its not his fault he got such a big payday,I just dont think he worked hard enough to show that their faith in him was justified.It isnt rocket science to improve your first step quickness to the rim.Its something I believe he could have improved on a while back.
Thank you for saying this.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
AUTOADVERT
technomaster
Posts: 23232
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
9/20/2004  1:39 PM
Well, Houston has a good first step--- he uses it to create space for himself on jumpers. Fact is he isn't lightning quick--- it limits his ability as a slasher and as a defender. He's probably worked on it, but there's a reason why not everyone is a Kobe Bryant... there's a certain amount of innate ability involved. It's the same reason why most NBA players don't shoot the ball like Houston.

I do believe that Houston would have won over more fans if he had a little more hip-hop to his personality...

Besides, he wasn't well received the 1 game he wore the cornrows...












Seriously tho, he'd look much tougher with the right 'do.

[Edited by - technomaster on 09/20/2004 13:48:19]
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
fishmike
Posts: 53151
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/20/2004  1:42 PM
It isnt rocket science to improve your first step quickness to the rim.
Thats a joke right? Your telling me a guy should TRY to be quicker? Silver, your points about KT are perfect. You would expect him to TRY and get more boards and blocks?

Did IQs suddenly drop over the weekend? KT and Houston are two of the NBAs hardest working players on the court and off. Did it ever occur to anyone that the reason KT is what KT is because of his talent? The fact that he's as good as he is is really a testment to how much he does TRY. Houston is no different. A guard with below average NBA athleticism, slow feet, lack of quickness and below average ball handling skills, yet is still a top 15 scorer in the league... what do you think thats a result of? My guess is its because he TRYs pretty damn hard, but my guess is you have another theory.

Geeze.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
Posts: 53151
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/20/2004  1:45 PM
on a side note thanks for this:
"If we dont succeed, we run the risk of failure." ...George W. Bush, Jr.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
9/20/2004  1:45 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:
for me its a question of picking his moments,too many times they would do an iso with Allan and he would just pump fake,pump fake and his man wouldnt give him any space because he knew that he wouldnt drive and Id screaming at the TV for him to drive and he would either take the shot with someone right up on him or wait for someone to bail him out.Thats what would get me upset.Even when he was healthy he would do this.

have you noticed how he can drain a shot w/a guy right up in his face on a regular basis? like i said before, he does what he does because he does it well...if he wasn't a good shooter, he'd resort to driving the ball more i'm sure...your complaints about Houston's game would only make sense if his shooting percentage were way low...then i would be in full agreement with you here...but that's not the case.
Like I said in my previous post,its not his fault he got such a big payday,I just dont think he worked hard enough to show that their faith in him was justified.It isnt rocket science to improve your first step quickness to the rim.Its something I believe he could have improved on a while back.

how do you know what he works on in practice? do you attend the Knicks training camp? as long as i've been following this team, Allan Houston's never been known to be a lackadaisical worker in the offseason...he always reports to camp in very good condition...you can't just "get quicker" by practicing...some players just have natural quickness, while others have to find ways to work around not being so quick...Allan Houston has accomplished that by turning himself into a terrific shooter...why is this a bad thing? i just don't get it...do i WISH he were a quicker, more aggressive, & defensive oriented player? sure, but i don't EXPECT it of him...i know what type of player he is, & i think he adds a dimension to this team that not every other team out there has...the fact that he makes the huge contract he makes is just something we'll all have to accept.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
9/20/2004  1:48 PM
Posted by technomaster:



LOL! good job, but i don't think he looks good w/those cornrows anyway.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Kwazimodal
Posts: 20896
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 8/3/2004
Member: #728
9/20/2004  1:53 PM
Posted by technomaster:

Well, Houston has a good first step--- he uses it to create space for himself on jumpers. Fact is he isn't lightning quick--- it limits his ability as a slasher and as a defender. He's probably worked on it, but there's a reason why not everyone is a Kobe Bryant... there's a certain amount of innate ability involved. It's the same reason why most NBA players don't shoot the ball like Houston.

I do believe that Houston would have won over more fans if he had a little more hip-hop to his personality...

Besides, he wasn't well received the 1 game he wore the cornrows...


Just kidding.

1)The move he uses to get some spacing really isnt the same thing as getting by your defender.You dont need to be lightning quick to do that,just quicker than Allan was.I dont believe we will all ever agree if he could have improved,this debate has been going on since he got here.

2) LO...freaking....L!!!!!
djsunyc
Posts: 44927
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
9/20/2004  1:55 PM
any of you guys remember the 2002-2003 season? dice got hurt and was gone for the entire season. the knicks were expected to do nothing yet we still won 37 games and guess who carried us that whole 2nd half, allan houston. all those nights when spree shot 3-16 or while clarence was getting blocked every which way but tuesday, h20 was dropping 30+ regularly including 2-50 point games. the reason we lost many games down the stretch was b/c we had THE WORST frontline in the league. that's just one year removed from his injury. he gets knee surgery and chaney plays him 40 mins a night right outta the box. doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what happened next.

h20 can carry this team offensively and this on a team where we had no type of offense other than give it to h20 or spree and get out of the way.

it's just a shame he wasn't able to play since the marbury trade. i'm hoping he's 80% b/c an 80% h20 playing alongside with marbury will make him a better shooter and make the team more cohesive.
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
9/20/2004  1:57 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

TMS: I am not harping on his contract, I am harping on his refusal to do anything other than jump shoot. How can that not bother you that he doesnt try to do anything else? I know his contract is not going to change, I hope for his style of play to change!!

I dont remember him driving to the hoop much even when he was younger! I want him to try and do that. I dont need to break out the tapes but you should. Yes it is managements fault for giving him a big contract but its his fault for not trying to do anything else. I dont need a 'CHILL PILL' I needed a better SG on the Knicks and I thank god that we have Jamal Crawford. I am even more thankful that the offense does not run around Houston anymore.

If you think u are wasting your breath, dont. I am not going to stop arguing about how bad Houston is for the Knicks. I am not going to cheer against him but I hope he does more to justify the orange and blue.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 09/20/2004 12:57:47]

You can't expect a player to change the way they play because of their contract. Though, I do think GMs think of it like that sometimes, almost like it's a promotion. Like, 'we're paying you more now, so we expect you to do more things.'

Listen, the NBA isn't like that. Allan goes out and plays his ass off every night. Just like Kurt. Just like Marbury. Just like Spree. You can't seriously expect players to 'work' on quickness and shot-blocking just because the Garden is paying them more money. That's simply absurd. Allan can't do anything in the world to get quicker at his age. Neither can Kurt. Quickness and athleticism are physical gifts which you can't work on.

Stop thinking about Allan's contract, and I think you'll realize that he's a valuable piece on this team for the next couple of years.
¿ △ ?
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
9/20/2004  2:00 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

any of you guys remember the 2002-2003 season? dice got hurt and was gone for the entire season. the knicks were expected to do nothing yet we still won 37 games and guess who carried us that whole 2nd half, allan houston. all those nights when spree shot 3-16 or while clarence was getting blocked every which way but tuesday, h20 was dropping 30+ regularly including 2-50 point games. the reason we lost many games down the stretch was b/c we had THE WORST frontline in the league. that's just one year removed from his injury. he gets knee surgery and chaney plays him 40 mins a night right outta the box. doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what happened next.

h20 can carry this team offensively and this on a team where we had no type of offense other than give it to h20 or spree and get out of the way.

it's just a shame he wasn't able to play since the marbury trade. i'm hoping he's 80% b/c an 80% h20 playing alongside with marbury will make him a better shooter and make the team more cohesive.

Amen. Anyone think the Knicks franchise would be in a lot better shape if Don wasn't always playing guys just back from injuries 40 minutes a night, in an effort not to get fired. What a waste that guy was...I know there's pressure to win here but still...
¿ △ ?
Marv
Posts: 35540
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
9/20/2004  2:12 PM
Posted by technomaster:


Besides, he wasn't well received the 1 game he wore the cornrows...

Thank you for that picture - truly great! Plus it never hurts to lighten things up here a little bit.
bernard
Posts: 20730
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/17/2003
Member: #475
9/20/2004  2:13 PM
Allan's game is 2 dimensional, not 1 dimensional. He's a very good catch and shoot guy. And he's a good 1 on 1 player (though his moves rarely result in a drive all the way to the hole). His ability to ball fake, foot fake, shoot off one or 2 dribbles, shoot the turnaround while creating space, draw fouls by lifting his arms into a defenders, etc. separate him from the Steve Kerrs of the world and make him a dangerous scorer from the wing, the top of the circle and the mid post, whereas the pure catch and shoot guys rarely avg. more than 10 ppg. because they do only one thing.

I don't think any amount of work is going to bring new dimensions to his game ... though hopefully the work will help him improve some of his shortcomings so they aren't so glaring. Yes, he needs to do whatever drills he can to work on quickness, but he'll never be quicker than avg. ... hopefully not so slow that his defense is major deficiency. He also needs to work on his ballhandling, but with the team we've got, I'm not sure I want him handling anyway ... might be better off putting in the time on his shot so it gets even more deadly.
Kwazimodal
Posts: 20896
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 8/3/2004
Member: #728
9/20/2004  2:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:
It isnt rocket science to improve your first step quickness to the rim.
Thats a joke right? Your telling me a guy should TRY to be quicker? Silver, your points about KT are perfect. You would expect him to TRY and get more boards and blocks?

Did IQs suddenly drop over the weekend? KT and Houston are two of the NBAs hardest working players on the court and off. Did it ever occur to anyone that the reason KT is what KT is because of his talent? The fact that he's as good as he is is really a testment to how much he does TRY. Houston is no different. A guard with below average NBA athleticism, slow feet, lack of quickness and below average ball handling skills, yet is still a top 15 scorer in the league... what do you think thats a result of? My guess is its because he TRYs pretty damn hard, but my guess is you have another theory.

Geeze.

Wow,are some people running out of midol on this board?.I know from personal experience that you can improve your first step.Ive done it.
Here is a place that is well known that trains athletes from most pro-sports sports to do just that.

http://www.imgacademies.com/ipi/default.jsp

Works for some,not for everyone but I dont believe he did work on that aspect of his game.You are entitled to your own opinion of course but try not to be so catty about it.
fishmike
Posts: 53151
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/20/2004  2:36 PM
no disrespect... it just sounded like your asking an already slow 30 year old guard to get quicker. Also the guy has improved year to year. Maybe it doesnt always show in the stats but we have certainly seen a more aggressive Houston in the past few years. His knock was he would disappear for long stretchs I think he went a long ways to kill that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Kwazimodal
Posts: 20896
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 8/3/2004
Member: #728
9/20/2004  2:43 PM
Posted by fishmike:

no disrespect... it just sounded like your asking an already slow 30 year old guard to get quicker. Also the guy has improved year to year. Maybe it doesnt always show in the stats but we have certainly seen a more aggressive Houston in the past few years. His knock was he would disappear for long stretchs I think he went a long ways to kill that.

Thats cool fishmike.You are right,it is too late now to do anything about it.I was refering to his time with the knicks overall.I think we are all just tired of this off-season and are anxious to see our Knicks back on the court again.I know I am.
fishmike
Posts: 53151
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/20/2004  3:07 PM
bigtime... its been a good offseason. Even though we only added Craw and JYD you can tell this team will have a different feel.

We have guys working w/ HOF players to get better. We have positive competition at every single position. We have young player with promising careers ahead of them that will be key parts of the rotation. We are balanced, we have a group of players that fit into a style of play and our only injury question mark is with Houston who we can live without for a stretch any way. Let him take his time. A healthy Houston in Dec is huge. A banged up Houston that misses a game a week doesnt help us much. So Craw starts at 2 and Ariza gets a little burn.

We arent winning a title this year but at least this franchise feels like its worth being a fan of again.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
9/20/2004  4:22 PM
Amen.
¿ △ ?
joec32033
Posts: 30499
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
9/20/2004  4:24 PM
I agree with "the he is sticking with what he is good at" crowd. And I also think that his one dimensional game is not all his fault.

For the longest time now, he is the guy that provides spacing with his jumpers on this team. His job was to space the floor so that our small frontline wasn't congested. I remember back in 1999(?) JVG used to post Allan up on the block and he was one of the better post up guards in the league...I think that was his best season, and also that was the year we went to the Finals as an 8th seed. Allan's job is to be a shooter.

I would love to see him post up more (IMO he will average 23 points a game on this team if the coaches would let him post up). Allan was a stick when he came here, and as was said he is one of the slower less athletic guards in the league. But he knows how to play. He is stronger than alot of guards in the league, which is why he was killer in 1999(?) when he was our post threat. He is 6-6, not alot of 2's can defend that. Plus that extra contact in the post may get him to the line 1 or 2 more times per game, if not more.

Age has definately taken it's toll on Allan, but if he is healthy, he can be an All-Star again, IMO, if he was to play like in '99(?). His game was never based on speed and athleticism. He used his jumper to set up his drive, not the other way around. Allan has never been the best finisher around the basket (putting his Dunk Contest entry aside...).

[Edited by - joec32033 on 09/20/2004 16:24:46]
~You can't run from who you are.~
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
9/20/2004  6:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:

A guard with below average NBA athleticism, slow feet, lack of quickness and below average ball handling skills, yet is still a top 15 scorer in the league... what do you think thats a result of? My guess is its because he TRYs pretty damn hard, but my guess is you have another theory.
What exactly does he work HARD on other than his jumpshot? I haven't seen him do much else in a game.

I am not expecting him to change, I am expecting him to show improvement in other categories or TRY and change. Most of the posters here seem to accept the fact that Houston has no other skill. All he does is jump shoot but he is really good at jump shooting. That does not make him a good player. That makes him a good jump shooter.

Fine, if you can accept the fact that "slow feet, lack of quickness and below average ball handling skills" is enough, jump shooting makes him good and we don't need to see him do anything else, think that.

There is no way that is enough! That is not even good enough to start on the Knicks this year. He is once again, not even the best SG on our team! And he will not play the entire season again either!

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 09/20/2004 19:07:20]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
9/20/2004  6:34 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Stop thinking about Allan's contract, and I think you'll realize that he's a valuable piece on this team for the next couple of years.
Even though I was not bitching about his contract, how can you 'Stop thinking about Allan's contract'? It takes up almost 50% of the salary cap for another 3 years. That is one of the main reasons every hates Shandon Anderson. He lacks the skill for the amount he makes and its the same with Houston.

Bottom line is that Houston does not do enough to lead the team anywhere and like most posters here have said, he does not have the skill to lead the team anywhere.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Page 2 of 5 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Inside Dish: The Knicks need Houston to thrive
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy