arkrud wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:I thought only low class players like Willy would complain about playing time. Higher class players like Kanter would never do it.

This is not about the skill level and talent. This is about character.
Ability to accept your own deficiencies and work on them or surrender to you own inability to improve and accept limited role which comes with this.
Kanter is great dude with fan personality.
But he cannot look at himself in the mirror as a player that's why he is who he is. NBA center with great inside game and rebounding with atrocious defense, court vision, passing, play making, and inability to stretch the court.
He also is unable to put the team goals above his personal goals and priorities.
Hence he is out of place on rebuilding team. Waste of space and playing time.
Dude is irrelevant here. Let him be.

He is a great dude with fan personality because he had the chance to play. It is much easier to be a nice guy when things are on your side. Sometimes, people have similar "characters" because they are put into the same situation and they are humans. If you are a player under this management, why would you not look for yourself? Why would you give up your chance to earn more just to help the team long term? Willy needed playing time because he wanted to be established in this league. Kanter needs playing time because his contact is up. There is not one guy is good or another guy is bad, as local media wanted you to assume. We are all the creatures of the enirvonment surrounding us. Look, Willy are backup now, and he is pretty promising, and he doesn't complain. Probably it is because he trusts the management of the new team and/or he doesn't have any local media dude trying hardest to lead him to say something stupid.

It is sorry to say but sometimes I think Knicks fans are bunch of hypocrites. They believe every players should be accoundable for their actions except the superstars. If you are Melo ( or the further KP), you can do anything and a lot of dudes would defend you to no end. One dude could shot whenever he wants, and if the offense system/coach/management stop it then they are all wrong/outdated/stupid/cancer. If you want to bench a player to teach him something then haha see you at the office of Union and/or media/fans would try to ruin your life until you are gone (Rambis). And then we ask why a lot of knick players didn't behave?

I rarely posted any in a year and half, and it gave me a chance to look things differently. I never saw local media were so patient and supportive of the knicks managment as they are now, as if the managment have earned it and proved it. Deep inside, the media just had to because they knew they are the reason Phil Jackson got kicked away. So now what? The new one has to be good because the old one has to be bad.

But there is no new era. It is just another old era. Steve Mills doesn't turn in a genius just because he suddenly wants to. If he could change he would have changed many years ago. Now he has a lot of cards in his hand but money always depart from a fool and he will turn into the same guy as before. I am not here trashing him for no reason. He traded away 1 center, let another go away, then buyout the third one in full amount(so what is the benefit?), and at last he chose not to offer an extension for the last one. So, what is it in his mind? Let KP playing center all time and he actually has one or two secret promising centers to back him up? It is just one example. He has no plan. He didn't plan to tank. He just loses.

But it is off-topic. The point is that we build this team, mentally, just like every team before it. Local media asked us to bark at something, and we did it. We are just bitches.

The center position is changing in NBA context.
Teams like Knicks which is in earlier stage of rebuilding can make advantage of this and assemble team more inline with current NBA trends.
Kanter is a piece we have by accident from Melo trade.
He never became a bonus and his time is ended this way or another.
On top of this he is not helpful in any way but his exceptional tanking ability which we do not need.
We are losing at good pace without even trying to lose.
So time to send dude to kick rocks.

As far as Mills and era it is all relative.
One can only see when era begins or ends after looking back in time.
And Mils is just a bureaucrat.
It all depends on who is running the bbal operations hands-on.
Perry/Fiz tandem are there very little time to make any judgments.

I read it and thought about it. Not to disrespect but I don't think I have anything to add. mentally, I am too tired.

I disagree. Search for the words "Kanter left for an international tour" in the link below...
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/10/11/17962130/enes-kanter-new-york-knicks-turkey

mlby1215 wrote:I thought only low class players like Willy would complain about playing time. Higher class players like Kanter would never do it.

It's one thing to be bench for a high lottery pick with high potential, but kanter is flat out better than Kornet regardless of he's ability to shoot 3's, he's slow as hell, worse then kanter on D, and is not starter material by anyone standard.

Kanter's beef isn't about being bench, it's about who is being bench for, it's not like it's Ayton, jackson, markaanan, bagley..it's fckng Luke kornet...

knicks1248 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:I thought only low class players like Willy would complain about playing time. Higher class players like Kanter would never do it.

It's one thing to be bench for a high lottery pick with high potential, but kanter is flat out better than Kornet regardless of he's ability to shoot 3's, he's slow as hell, worse then kanter on D, and is not starter material by anyone standard.

Kanter's beef isn't about being bench, it's about who is being bench for, it's not like it's Ayton, jackson, markaanan, bagley..it's fckng Luke kornet...

There is no defense worse that Kanter's.. not in NBA, not in China, not in Mongolia...
Luke has no bbal body except he is tall, but he has 1000% more bbal brain that Kanter.
This helps to not look like clueless fool most of the time.

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:I thought only low class players like Willy would complain about playing time. Higher class players like Kanter would never do it.

It's one thing to be bench for a high lottery pick with high potential, but kanter is flat out better than Kornet regardless of he's ability to shoot 3's, he's slow as hell, worse then kanter on D, and is not starter material by anyone standard.

Kanter's beef isn't about being bench, it's about who is being bench for, it's not like it's Ayton, jackson, markaanan, bagley..it's fckng Luke kornet...

Kornet can space the floor. He also understands how to get into position. He fails at times because he is limited in talent. He's young and still in his prime developmental window. Kanter has no future with this team. He sulks and he's a black hole on offense. At least Kornet makes some attempt to keep the ball moving ( He is raw and still doesn't understand offensive nuance at the NBA level and struggles at times with NBA game speed)

I said this last year when some guys where demanding Kanter get a long term extension, that he turned ******* in OKC and Utah when he didn't get his way. And voila. Where are those busters now demanding Kanter get a long term extension?

Kanter has more physical talent. But he's low BBIQ and an ******* and won't shut up.

Kornet fits an actual role and is willing to play it. Talent limitations and all.

So Kornet is 23yrs old, 4 yrs of college but "still in his PRIME developmental window" but Mudiay who is 22yrs old, never had the correct coaching until this yr is "over the hill", "never will change his ways". Triplefraud again with your logic , you amaze me. Mr****ingknowitall

smackeddog wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1083028535239938055

Think we'd need Koufos along with him to tide us over until the end of the season(and cut Zach), just due to Mitch being a bit injury prone.

In a perfect work they'd include WCS (if they have no interest in keeping him after this season and the front office want to force the coach to play Bagely more)- just so we can try him out. Think his advance stats are bad or his defense is, but I'd like to give him a try out. Alternatively I'd be happy if they included Skal Labissiere, again just to give us a player to try out for the rest of the season.

Knicks making this move would be for a future draft pick. Kings want to make playoffs and are looking for upgrades. They wont send WCS out since that would reduce their talent level when they don't have to. They wanna package Randolph & Koufus in a 2 for 1 and clear up the log jam.

I'm wondering if they would be willing to take Tim as well for Shump & Mclemore. Bogdanovan would have to play more SF. But Tim as a gunner off the bench at G/F would work well for them imo. Tim and Kanter off the bench could solidify them as a playoff team.

TripleThreat wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:I thought only low class players like Willy would complain about playing time. Higher class players like Kanter would never do it.

It's one thing to be bench for a high lottery pick with high potential, but kanter is flat out better than Kornet regardless of he's ability to shoot 3's, he's slow as hell, worse then kanter on D, and is not starter material by anyone standard.

Kanter's beef isn't about being bench, it's about who is being bench for, it's not like it's Ayton, jackson, markaanan, bagley..it's fckng Luke kornet...

Kornet can space the floor. He also understands how to get into position. He fails at times because he is limited in talent. He's young and still in his prime developmental window. Kanter has no future with this team. He sulks and he's a black hole on offense. At least Kornet makes some attempt to keep the ball moving ( He is raw and still doesn't understand offensive nuance at the NBA level and struggles at times with NBA game speed)

I said this last year when some guys where demanding Kanter get a long term extension, that he turned ******* in OKC and Utah when he didn't get his way. And voila. Where are those busters now demanding Kanter get a long term extension?

Kanter has more physical talent. But he's low BBIQ and an ******* and won't shut up.

Kornet fits an actual role and is willing to play it. Talent limitations and all.

So Kornet is 23yrs old, 4 yrs of college but "still in his PRIME developmental window" but Mudiay who is 22yrs old, never had the correct coaching until this yr is "over the hill", "never will change his ways". Triplefraud again with your logic , you amaze me. Mr****ingknowitall

Luke Kornet has played in a total of 39 NBA games, 7 of them starts, averaging around 15 minutes a game, and started in the league at 22.

Mudiay has played in a total of 221 games, 148 starts, averaging around 25 minutes a game and started in the league at 19. 107 of those starts came in his first two years in the league.

Barring massive injury and/or a severe limitation in minutes, a player will show 90 percent of what he will be the rest of his career by mid-season of his third year in the NBA. The major developmental leaps are between Years 1 and 2, and then again in Years 2 and 3. Based on this, knicks1248, for all his bull****, has a point about concern about Frank N and his future with this team.

The above is a player's prime developmental window in the NBA. It is the basis of why rookie contracts for 1st round picks are structured as they are currently ( Used to be 3 years slotting guaranteed, now 2 guaranteed years with two team option years)

The litmus is age 25. At 25 and older, there is a different approach to a players prime developmental window ( shorter, more brutal) Neither Kornet nor Mudiay apply to this though.

Many of you are using AGE as a marker WITHOUT CONTEXT. Age makes a difference, but it's still relative to actual NBA experience. Denver gave up on Mudiay for a reason. Kornet still has time to expand his game ( though the cards are stacked against him) Mudiay is past the point where you can expect much more from him. The one push/pull factor is his three point shooting. Players can improve that with grind and attrition, but Mudiays three point shot rate, even with his "good month" is still not where it needs to be to compensate for his other flaws.

What I'm discussing is an actual resource management perspective used by actual NBA front offices. You are not arguing with me. You are arguing with principles guiding hundreds of the top minds in all of modern and organized basketball. I didn't invent this wheel. I did not reinvent it.

If you walked into an actual NBA front office hoping to make a career of it and said Mudiay is "only 22" and left it at that, they'd throw you the **** out.

But I can see why I irritate the living **** out of you. You come hard at me, and I actually explain a functional resource management concept to you. You don't like what I have to say, but you keep reading it. The sad part is you are so invested in talking ****, you won't actually learn anything.

The statistics that you are using (who the hell knows where they come from, probably triplefrauds ass) I am sure are based on players who spent 1-4 yrs in college. Mudiay didn't go to college and played 10 games? in China. You can't look at him as a traditional player coming from college. He probably never even got coached properly in Denver , esp after his 1st year. Fiz is breaking down film with him and trying to teach/coach him for his probably 1st time ever. BTW go into an NBA front office and tell them that you think Ron Baker should be their starting PG over Mudiay, they will first laugh in your face and then throw you the **** out, Mr Know it all. You irritate me because you are pompous, think you know everything but really know jack ****. Tell us again how you worked in a NFL front office and got thrown the **** out.

BigRedDog wrote:The statistics that you are using (who the hell knows where they come from, probably triplefrauds ass) I am sure are based on players who spent 1-4 yrs in college. Mudiay didn't go to college and played 10 games? in China. You can't look at him as a traditional player coming from college. He probably never even got coached properly in Denver , esp after his 1st year. Fiz is breaking down film with him and trying to teach/coach him for his probably 1st time ever. BTW go into an NBA front office and tell them that you think Ron Baker should be their starting PG over Mudiay, they will first laugh in your face and then throw you the **** out, Mr Know it all. You irritate me because you are pompous, think you know everything but really know jack ****. Tell us again how you worked in a NFL front office and got thrown the **** out.

Once a player starts getting regular minutes in the NBA, his "service time" clock starts. That player's value becomes a question of his production against his cap cost and the opportunity cost of that roster spot and minutes.

If you produce, you play. If you don't, you get benched. If you don't produce long enough, the team will dump you. Not complicated.

Your argument is "It's unfair" That it's unfair to judge Mudiay because he didn't go the college route. No one gives a ****. You produce or you don't. He played in China and not many games, that's unfair to expect this or that out of him. No one gives a ****. You produce or you don't. But he didn't get the coaching he needed! No one gives a ****. You produce or you don't.

Every last single player in the NBA has something to overcome. Some don't have luck on their side. You don't know how many opportunities you'll get.

The league is littered with former first round guys who didn't produce and were moved in their 3rd or 4th year, or let walk after their 4th year. This is EXACTLY WHY the league and the NBAPA agreed on the rookie slotting contract length for first round draft picks. 2 guaranteed years and two team option years. Long enough for a team to properly determine if a player is worth a longer investment. Short enough where a player can prove himself and get towards market correction of his real value if he's outstripping the value against his rookie slotted deal.

Mudiay has 148 starts in his career ( up to the point when I posted last in this thread) That's way more opportunity to prove himself than many many other players got in the NBA.

But it's so unfair!

Jesus H Christ, what the **** are you? 10 years old?

Once you start getting regular NBA minutes, you have to prove yourself. Every single minute, every single play, every single game.

If you had a kid who was sick, would you want him treated by a doctor who should have failed in medical school but the school said, you know what, this guy had a super hard time in his past, so many complicated circumstances, so we gave him more time and passed him.

You are not disagreeing with just a NBA concept. Not even just a pro sports resource management concept. You are arguing with a basic life concept. Everything is a competition. You produce and if you don't, the people in charge will find someone who will and will replace you.

You are literally trying to argue why 221 games is not enough to establish a baseline of what a player will likely give you the rest of his career. Not just one OK month, but against his entire career arc. Then you are trying to explain why you don't see the difference in a player who has only had 39 games in the league.

You could use this as an opportunity to learn. Instead you choose to be willfully ignorant.

You are making this about "I'm right, you are wrong"

I'm discussing how actually NBA front offices, competent ones, evaluate players. This is not about "I am right", this is about "This is how they actually do things" and if you disagree, you are wrong. Because it's actually how they do things.

CrushAlot wrote:The Post is reporting Kanter is not expected to play tomorrow.

Coupled with the fact he's not going to London, I presume the team have decided to keep him out these past few games while they try and work on a trade- likely if we don't get it done by the time they get back from London, it ain't happening. Wise decision- I still remember that time we were working on a (Shump?) deal at the trade deadline, decided to play him that night and they got injured that game, destroying the deal

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Post is reporting Kanter is not expected to play tomorrow.

Coupled with the fact he's not going to London, I presume the team have decided to keep him out these past few games while they try and work on a trade- likely if we don't get it done by the time they get back from London, it ain't happening. Wise decision- I still remember that time we were working on a (Shump?) deal at the trade deadline, decided to play him that night and they got injured that game, destroying the deal

Never understood not relying on the easier reason: Kanter sat last game with flu, probably still sick?

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Post is reporting Kanter is not expected to play tomorrow.

Coupled with the fact he's not going to London, I presume the team have decided to keep him out these past few games while they try and work on a trade- likely if we don't get it done by the time they get back from London, it ain't happening. Wise decision- I still remember that time we were working on a (Shump?) deal at the trade deadline, decided to play him that night and they got injured that game, destroying the deal

Never understood not relying on the easier reason: Kanter sat last game with flu, probably still sick?

He looked fine and dandy in the cheeseburger video, when fiz said he'd been having flu symptoms for a few days, also he's been tweeting just fine, even photos of himself looking in fine health

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/Enes_Kanter/status/1084291356699308034