StarksEwing1 wrote:I like Kanter but damn he whines a lot. I mean the kids all had stretches where they didnt play but none complained. A problem with Kanter has always been lack of defense

Yep- he's even been ridiculed by players we played against for his horrendous defence, but he never acknowledges it.

I can't actually think of a single other team who would have him as a starter- he's in for a rude awakening in free agency.

nyvector16 wrote:I hope he is traded by the deadline. It would be nice to get at least a 2nd rounder or to attach him with Lee for an expiring to a contender.

The bottom of the field will be so crowded this year that just a few wins will likely separate worst record and 6th worst record.

Once again we are faced with a question of lose and maximize opportunity to get a potential superstar in draft, or win a few extra meaningless games to appease idiots like Kanter or fans with a short-sided view of things. Clearly this year is done, we need to keep losing and keep KP away to recover.

A few things hurt the lose now this year effort and it is all related to individualism. Free agents want to win to maximize their summer deals. We need to worry about Knicks, not individuals. I love how Clevland can just tank and accrue 1st overall picks in multiple years the past decade and never get criticized for it. Clearly that strategy worked for them as they won a championship. We have one real "tank"/losing type season this year and it is article after article about the Knicks losing... how terrible they are, and just bash them in general.

This stupid pressure to win now doesn't help the Knicks long-term. Due to the amazing draft the new management executed this last off-season we are ahead of where we thought we would be, just a year ago. One more losing season is all we need and we are setup for a decade-long run... Lets not mess that up with cheering for meaningless wins.

Kanter needs to go...

Jmpasq wrote:

nyvector16 wrote:I hope he is traded by the deadline. It would be nice to get at least a 2nd rounder or to attach him with Lee for an expiring to a contender.

The bottom of the field will be so crowded this year that just a few wins will likely separate worst record and 6th worst record.

Once again we are faced with a question of lose and maximize opportunity to get a potential superstar in draft, or win a few extra meaningless games to appease idiots like Kanter or fans with a short-sided view of things. Clearly this year is done, we need to keep losing and keep KP away to recover.

A few things hurt the lose now this year effort and it is all related to individualism. Free agents want to win to maximize their summer deals. We need to worry about Knicks, not individuals. I love how Cleveland can just tank and accrue 1st overall picks in multiple years the past decade and never get criticized for it. Clearly that strategy worked for them as they won a championship. We have one real "tank"/losing type season this year and it is article after article about the Knicks losing... how terrible they are, and just bash them in general.

This stupid pressure to win now doesn't help the Knicks long-term. Due to the brilliant draft the new management executed this last off-season we are ahead of where we thought we would be, just a year ago. One more losing season is all we need and we are setup for a decade-long run... Lets not mess that up with cheering for meaningless wins.

Kanter needs to go...

Wait so you think we will be able to trade Kanter with Lee? Or get a 2nd for him? No one wants Kanters salary. The only thing we could get for Kanter is a longer contract or someone even less useful

Kanter is a double-double machine. He gives Knicks tons of second of opportunities with his impressive offensive rebounding. He is also a savvy scorer around the basket. That alone could entice a playoff team looking for a missing piece for situational basketball during the playoffs.

Once the deadline passes, he has zero benefit to the Knicks having him on the roster. I suspect we may still be able to get some value back for him... but I understand your point and don't discount it at all. I don't really like Kanter on the Knicks either.. but we have to try to squeeze as much value as we can anywhere we can. Getting something... anything.. for Kanter would be another impressive feat by this new management. I am curious to see if they can pull it off.. If they don't, he should be cut day 1 after trade deadline.

Don’t point the finger at anyone but yourself. Start playing defense with heart

nyvector16 wrote:I hope he is traded by the deadline. It would be nice to get at least a 2nd rounder or to attach him with Lee for an expiring to a contender.

The bottom of the field will be so crowded this year that just a few wins will likely separate worst record and 6th worst record.

Once again we are faced with a question of lose and maximize opportunity to get a potential superstar in draft, or win a few extra meaningless games to appease idiots like Kanter or fans with a short-sided view of things. Clearly this year is done, we need to keep losing and keep KP away to recover.

A few things hurt the lose now this year effort and it is all related to individualism. Free agents want to win to maximize their summer deals. We need to worry about Knicks, not individuals. I love how Cleveland can just tank and accrue 1st overall picks in multiple years the past decade and never get criticized for it. Clearly that strategy worked for them as they won a championship. Philly was relentless in their pursuit of losing for the top pick and they are relevant for the 1st time since Iverson was in his prime. We have one real "tank"/losing type season this year and it is article after article about the Knicks losing... how terrible they are, and just bash them in general.

This stupid pressure to win now doesn't help the Knicks long-term. Due to the brilliant draft the new management executed this last off-season we are ahead of where we thought we would be, just a year ago. One more losing season is all we need and we are setup for a decade-long run... Lets not mess that up with cheering for meaningless wins.

Kanter needs to go...

Lee and Kanter combined is about 30 million in cap. What contender ( well a quasi contender not named the Warriors) has 30 million in contracts to dump where Lee/Kanter are an upgrade for them? Also you are asking a team to take Lee's age 34 year and next years AAV, and since most quasi contenders are in the tax zone already, you are looking at a 20-40 million dollar tax hit to take in Lee.

Take OKC for example. Many people here want to push Lee onto the Thunder. If the Thunder took on Lee for his last year, with their repeater tax acceleration, that would be about 55-60 million total out the door for one year of Lee. That's a 50-60 million dollar CASH HIT for one year of Lee.

You would also be asking a team to shed a valuable 2nd round pick, which are more valuable to contender level teams because they don't require any guaranteed money against their tax line like first round picks do.

The Cavs were not heavily criticized in the press because they lost a generational player. Not just lost him, but had him **** all over their city on national TV for a half hour. It's bad for existing owners to try to raise the prices for rare teams for sale when the narrative is you can get a generational player only to be a farm team for a larger market.

There is no pressure for the Knicks to win. They signed guys to deals that were poor market based decisions, thus no one wants the players and the contracts. They can't dump them. Thus they can't get assets for them, they can't clear roster spots and minutes for other players and those players help the team win just enough to hurt its lottery standing.

Robin Lopez was very easy to trade. He had a value contract, was a useful player and was generally a very good low risk signing. You sign guys like that, you don't have problems flipping them for something ( well something better than mental whackjob Rose)

You can't blame a coach and existing players for trying to win. That's their job.

An "organic tank" is trading off veterans, getting picks and other assets, clearing space, using the roster spots to mine young prospects, then tank easily because you don't have much talent to get a higher pick. Philly did this. Dumped Hawes, Turner, Young, Holiday, etc and mined guys like Robert Covington while tanking to get top picks like Simmons/Embiid.

When I say Phil Jackson totally ****ed this team over for five years in his last season, I wasn't kidding. He ****ed this team badly for half a decade or more with his decisions to try to justify his role with the team and save his job.

I usually don't like to say, "Give us some trade scenarios" because usually on this board it's something said to be a total dick. But in this case, if you think you can move 30 million in Kanter and Lee for a 2nd, plus Lee's likely tax hit for his 4th year, and something else less painful for the cap, I'm all ears. Everyone is all ears.

It takes years and years to build the asset base to turn a team around. Boston and Philly, that took years and years. Even the Warriors, that took a long time too. "One more losing season" is just not enough. I wish it was enough but it's not.

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:More from Kanter:

I understand we want the young guys to get better, but it’s very painful to watch it out there,’’ Kanter said. “I’m essentially positive and try to help the young guys get better. It’s too early in the season to shut me down. My goal this year was to go out and be an All-Star, but now look at the situation’’

https://nypost.com/2018/12/30/enes-kanter-doesnt-know-why-knicks-are-shutting-him-down/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

If he wanted to be an all star he should have tried playing defense

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:More from Kanter:

I understand we want the young guys to get better, but it’s very painful to watch it out there,’’ Kanter said. “I’m essentially positive and try to help the young guys get better. It’s too early in the season to shut me down. My goal this year was to go out and be an All-Star, but now look at the situation’’

https://nypost.com/2018/12/30/enes-kanter-doesnt-know-why-knicks-are-shutting-him-down/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

If he wanted to be an all star he should have tried playing defense

So much about self so little about team. He is destroying any goodwill he built with the fans.

Yep, must not be sitting well with fiz, I remember when asked about noah in the off-season he said vets wanting more mins than he can give can poison the locker room. Likely he's gone after the deadline