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The system for now.......
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CrushAlot
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1/2/2019  11:46 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The strategy of targeting second draft guys like Mudiay, Vonleh, Mario and Burke while not impacting their ability to be players in 2019 free agency is what a competent front office does. ....... This front offices from has taken a thorough approach to every move they have made. I know that you will not like anyone that plays ahead of Frank. If it is a young, former lottdery pick that the front office traded for, the coach likes and he out plays Frank I would expect you to be relentless in your criticism of the player, coach and front office.


The Knicks are/were cap locked with players they wanted to dump but could not trade and could only shop at the Tier 4 and Tier 5 levels of free agency.

They only got some Tier 4 guys ( Hezonja and Vonleh) because the market completely collapsed.

Burke and Mudiay are Tier 5 guys, guys looking to stay in the league and hope for the best pathway to minutes. There is NO STRATEGY here. The Knicks under Jackson ****ed up their cap sheet. I mean totally ****ed it up. They could not run Frank N into the ground, thus you'll get cheap journeymen like Sessions, Jack, Burke and Mudiay.

This is not strategy, this is about finding WARM BODIES.

Most of you are still in the working world. Does your company always hire the best guy all the time? Sometimes they just need a guy or two and will take the best of what's available right then and there.

The Knicks are not targeting anyone. They wait until the better teams with better coaches/cap sheets/winning situations get first pick of the litter and they work with what's left.

A guy I got drafted with didn't make the league. He was a late pick and his odds were low to start, he knew that and was realistic about it. He started a business that essentially worked with waste disposal. Lots of people don't want those jobs. You know where he got regular pools of guys? Convicted felons. Am I ****ting on people, some, who want a second chance? NO. I'm saying when you make bad choices, your options narrow.

Knicks gave Jackson power. He totally ****ed their cap sheet. They got stuck shopping at the Red Tag Bin and got Mudiay and Burke. This is not targeting. This is not some grand plan. This is not some exhaustive strategy. It's about warm bodies.

Can it get better? Yes, over time. Just like a convicted felon, as time passes, and with some hard work and luck, might turn it around and find something that fits. But it takes time.

Sometimes a rose grows out of a pile a ****. But right now, it's just a pile of ****. If you want to hunker down and stare at a steaming pile of **** and talk about roses, go for it dude. Some guys are into that. For what it's worth, convicted felons knee deep in waste aren't into that. So while they've made bad choices, right now, they are making better choices than you.

How many posts did you cut and paste that quote from?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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newyorknewyork
Posts: 28504
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1/2/2019  12:07 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Nalod, just face it Fizdale sucks and has no plan. If he implements a system next year then he would have lost a year of teaching for those that might be here next year. Which means he delay everything. He is an awful coach. You guys can trick yourself.

The system is now not a system. LOL.
Thats my point, the team is awful. To employ a system now is to employ a bad scenario. I think the thing now is just letting these guys play some simple pick up style ball and let them develop that way. Get stronger, assimilate, try different things, etc.
This is not about Fiz being bad, its a really bad roster right now.

So let them develop bad habits that will stay with them throughout their careers because we have a bad roster now? You should know better...

I agree with Fiz ways to evaluate the players pool.
Let them play and see what their tendencies are, how deep they are ingrained, can they change their ways, can they learn.
How they react to adversities, losing, straggles, benching, criticism, failure.
We already know that Kanter, Mario, Burke, Timmy, Lee, Thomas are nothing we want to preserve.
We still learn what are others made of.
This system called natural selection. The best survive, the rest gone.

You don't change their ways by letting them make their best tendencies worse

Sometimes you cannot change what player is.
Organization need to identify this fact, observe it, and move of this player.
The negative result is as good as positive. It helps to refine the roster.
It is much better that fool yourself with players like Melo for years just because there are no leaders in the org to admit the grand failure.
If this year will result in clear picture of who is NOT part of the future its a great success already.

They way the Knicks are run this won't happen. Instead garbage line Mudiay wil be given a contract.

This doesn't make sense. The Knicks did an exhaustive coaching search this offseason and chose the guy with the best reputation as a developmental coach. The Knicks approach to scouting the draft was fantastic and they came away with three rotation players. The strategy of targeting second draft guys like Mudiay, Vonleh, Mario and Burke while not impacting their ability to be players in 2019 free agency is what a competent front office does. Not sure why it's all about Mudiay for you. Taking a low risk chance on a high lottery pick in their early twenties is something good front offices do if they have limited assets.

Mills and Perry made it seem like the did an exhaustive search because they didn't want to look like phil did, I believe their mind was made up about fiz the min he left their office..They wanted a guy who could communicate with players, and fiz is great at that, but that's all he's good at

Our last 2 coaches were both fired from their previous jobs essentially after 1 season for under performing. A development coach is a guy you have on your coaching staff, not your head coach..Fiz has no track record of turning a franchise around.

We will probably have the longest losing streak in Franchise history because fiz has no clue on X&O's or how to get his guys to play hard.

Miluakee had more to work with then the Knicks did. Just like the Warriors had more to work with than the Knicks did when Kerr choose them. Bud was my first choice as well by far, but didn't have a problem with Fizz. You seemed happy with the Fizz hire when it happened if I remember correctly. But logic tells me that there is no reason for Bud to choose NY over Miluakee.

You crapped all over Casey for his failures with Toronto in the playoffs. Very surprising that he was a top candidate for you.

You wanted a new age non antiquated coach that will install modern style offense. But then favor old school type coaches in JVG and Mark Jackson??

"Yo I'm a Knick!! Whhhaat" - RJ Barrett
knicks1248
Posts: 38927
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
1/2/2019  1:19 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Nalod, just face it Fizdale sucks and has no plan. If he implements a system next year then he would have lost a year of teaching for those that might be here next year. Which means he delay everything. He is an awful coach. You guys can trick yourself.

The system is now not a system. LOL.
Thats my point, the team is awful. To employ a system now is to employ a bad scenario. I think the thing now is just letting these guys play some simple pick up style ball and let them develop that way. Get stronger, assimilate, try different things, etc.
This is not about Fiz being bad, its a really bad roster right now.

So let them develop bad habits that will stay with them throughout their careers because we have a bad roster now? You should know better...

I agree with Fiz ways to evaluate the players pool.
Let them play and see what their tendencies are, how deep they are ingrained, can they change their ways, can they learn.
How they react to adversities, losing, straggles, benching, criticism, failure.
We already know that Kanter, Mario, Burke, Timmy, Lee, Thomas are nothing we want to preserve.
We still learn what are others made of.
This system called natural selection. The best survive, the rest gone.

You don't change their ways by letting them make their best tendencies worse

Sometimes you cannot change what player is.
Organization need to identify this fact, observe it, and move of this player.
The negative result is as good as positive. It helps to refine the roster.
It is much better that fool yourself with players like Melo for years just because there are no leaders in the org to admit the grand failure.
If this year will result in clear picture of who is NOT part of the future its a great success already.

They way the Knicks are run this won't happen. Instead garbage line Mudiay wil be given a contract.

This doesn't make sense. The Knicks did an exhaustive coaching search this offseason and chose the guy with the best reputation as a developmental coach. The Knicks approach to scouting the draft was fantastic and they came away with three rotation players. The strategy of targeting second draft guys like Mudiay, Vonleh, Mario and Burke while not impacting their ability to be players in 2019 free agency is what a competent front office does. Not sure why it's all about Mudiay for you. Taking a low risk chance on a high lottery pick in their early twenties is something good front offices do if they have limited assets.

Mills and Perry made it seem like the did an exhaustive search because they didn't want to look like phil did, I believe their mind was made up about fiz the min he left their office..They wanted a guy who could communicate with players, and fiz is great at that, but that's all he's good at

Our last 2 coaches were both fired from their previous jobs essentially after 1 season for under performing. A development coach is a guy you have on your coaching staff, not your head coach..Fiz has no track record of turning a franchise around.

We will probably have the longest losing streak in Franchise history because fiz has no clue on X&O's or how to get his guys to play hard.

Miluakee had more to work with then the Knicks did. Just like the Warriors had more to work with than the Knicks did when Kerr choose them. Bud was my first choice as well by far, but didn't have a problem with Fizz. You seemed happy with the Fizz hire when it happened if I remember correctly. But logic tells me that there is no reason for Bud to choose NY over Miluakee.

You crapped all over Casey for his failures with Toronto in the playoffs. Very surprising that he was a top candidate for you.

You wanted a new age non antiquated coach that will install modern style offense. But then favor old school type coaches in JVG and Mark Jackson??

I was in fact satisfied with fiz, on the surface he look to be a good fit, but he lacks in many key areas that his assistants are suppose to cover . Keith Smart is another joke of an assistant, and that reflects on FIZ for hiring his buddy over a more qualified assistant.

We have an entire organization being run by people with no track record of success at their current position, little to no experience at rebuilding, or winning, and that goes all the way down to these players..

With 20 mill in cap space we walked away with THJ, jack, and beasely..

with the almost 9 mill (min level exp) we walked away with MARIO, you were better off donating that money to charity for good karma, and tax purposes..

OUR RECORD is a reflection of the FO.....

ES
newyorknewyork
Posts: 28504
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Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
1/2/2019  2:09 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Nalod, just face it Fizdale sucks and has no plan. If he implements a system next year then he would have lost a year of teaching for those that might be here next year. Which means he delay everything. He is an awful coach. You guys can trick yourself.

The system is now not a system. LOL.
Thats my point, the team is awful. To employ a system now is to employ a bad scenario. I think the thing now is just letting these guys play some simple pick up style ball and let them develop that way. Get stronger, assimilate, try different things, etc.
This is not about Fiz being bad, its a really bad roster right now.

So let them develop bad habits that will stay with them throughout their careers because we have a bad roster now? You should know better...

I agree with Fiz ways to evaluate the players pool.
Let them play and see what their tendencies are, how deep they are ingrained, can they change their ways, can they learn.
How they react to adversities, losing, straggles, benching, criticism, failure.
We already know that Kanter, Mario, Burke, Timmy, Lee, Thomas are nothing we want to preserve.
We still learn what are others made of.
This system called natural selection. The best survive, the rest gone.

You don't change their ways by letting them make their best tendencies worse

Sometimes you cannot change what player is.
Organization need to identify this fact, observe it, and move of this player.
The negative result is as good as positive. It helps to refine the roster.
It is much better that fool yourself with players like Melo for years just because there are no leaders in the org to admit the grand failure.
If this year will result in clear picture of who is NOT part of the future its a great success already.

They way the Knicks are run this won't happen. Instead garbage line Mudiay wil be given a contract.

This doesn't make sense. The Knicks did an exhaustive coaching search this offseason and chose the guy with the best reputation as a developmental coach. The Knicks approach to scouting the draft was fantastic and they came away with three rotation players. The strategy of targeting second draft guys like Mudiay, Vonleh, Mario and Burke while not impacting their ability to be players in 2019 free agency is what a competent front office does. Not sure why it's all about Mudiay for you. Taking a low risk chance on a high lottery pick in their early twenties is something good front offices do if they have limited assets.

Mills and Perry made it seem like the did an exhaustive search because they didn't want to look like phil did, I believe their mind was made up about fiz the min he left their office..They wanted a guy who could communicate with players, and fiz is great at that, but that's all he's good at

Our last 2 coaches were both fired from their previous jobs essentially after 1 season for under performing. A development coach is a guy you have on your coaching staff, not your head coach..Fiz has no track record of turning a franchise around.

We will probably have the longest losing streak in Franchise history because fiz has no clue on X&O's or how to get his guys to play hard.

Miluakee had more to work with then the Knicks did. Just like the Warriors had more to work with than the Knicks did when Kerr choose them. Bud was my first choice as well by far, but didn't have a problem with Fizz. You seemed happy with the Fizz hire when it happened if I remember correctly. But logic tells me that there is no reason for Bud to choose NY over Miluakee.

You crapped all over Casey for his failures with Toronto in the playoffs. Very surprising that he was a top candidate for you.

You wanted a new age non antiquated coach that will install modern style offense. But then favor old school type coaches in JVG and Mark Jackson??

I was in fact satisfied with fiz, on the surface he look to be a good fit, but he lacks in many key areas that his assistants are suppose to cover . Keith Smart is another joke of an assistant, and that reflects on FIZ for hiring his buddy over a more qualified assistant.

We have an entire organization being run by people with no track record of success at their current position, little to no experience at rebuilding, or winning, and that goes all the way down to these players..

With 20 mill in cap space we walked away with THJ, jack, and beasely..

with the almost 9 mill (min level exp) we walked away with MARIO, you were better off donating that money to charity for good karma, and tax purposes..

OUR RECORD is a reflection of the FO.....

Knicks are playing the long game. The moves they made/make weren't/aren't for short term success.

Signing THjr was a mistake imo as I would have preferred we used our cap space to trade for Carroll and a 1st. Which also would have been a long term move. But the logic in signing THjr wasn't bad(acquire players entering their prime that have shown improvement).

The logic behind the Mario signing wasn't bad either. Given the fact that Knicks needed to preserve cap. Signing a 23 yr old former lotto pick on a one year prove it deal isn't bad business regardless if he pans out or not.

"Yo I'm a Knick!! Whhhaat" - RJ Barrett
technomaster
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1/2/2019  3:22 PM
I think a few players are having career type seasons statistically and are ostensibly showing improvement.
TH JR has been producing like an all-star, at least he was prior to his leg/foot woes. Hide the names and you'd have a hard time telling which are Klay Thompson's and which are Hardaway's.

Vonleh's been outstanding. While he's not quite the rebounder or offensive presence as Kanter, he looks like a far superior defensive player in the modern game. He seems primed to play a Chris Bosh (Miami-style) type of role.

Dotson has produced some nice flashes of being a competent NBA player, perhaps more than a rotation guy.

Luke Kornet, my gosh, looks like a competent rotation player. He's not a pure athlete by any means, but he looks worthy of putting in quality minutes.

The rookies have all shown flashes of brilliance (though all have been hampered by injury at one point or another, slowing their progress).

Even Mudiay looks like a player. I think with all of the hype around Mudiay, it does appear as if Fizdale and team have improved his ability to finish his drives. This year he's shooting an astounding (and outstanding) 46% from the field after being at sub-39% for his career to date. This alone makes him a different and much improved player. I think Mudiay has graduated to having a floor as a journeyman level player. He still has ample upside (perhaps along the lines of Tyreke Evans... or Evan Turner?)...

The failures so far:
Ntilikina has regressed. As pointed out numerous times in this board, his comfort zone is as a system player and Fizdale isn't doing that. He doesn't seem to do well freelancing and playing street ball. The tough thing is that in 1.5 seasons, he's basically averaged quality minutes already, so playing time isn't holding him back. I think the Knicks would do well to send him down to the G-league and tell him to do his best impression of Allen Iverson. (That worked out well for Burke, at least for a portion of last season) Kind of reminds me of Nick Batum - though in the case of Batum, he's paid over $30m/year to be a star, and the guy comes across as statistically passive. I think Batum's a high end rotation/low end starting player, perhaps at the $8-12m salary range. I'd like to think Ntilikina has the tools to be better.

Trey Burke has also regressed. This is one of the bigger disappointments of this season for me. Yeah, he's battled injury as of late, but he ended last season on such a strong note that I was really hoping it'd carry over to this season.

Hezonja has not been good. I'm curious if we'll find out late in the season that he was playing with a torn rotator cuff or dislocated wrist or something. :) I expected him to come in as a gunslinger and basically produce like he did on last year's bad Orlando team - basically be like Evan Fournier, or at least, the statistical equivalent of Dotson. It hasn't been good. This guy's floor may not be as an NBA player.

Our record. It's really bad. Maybe we're just doing quality tanking. If anything this is the year to do it.
But when I look at the Brooklyn Nets roster vs ours, I have a tough time understanding why their record is so much better than ours. Are they really more talented? Is their coach really better? They're winning largely without high 1st round picks (we dodged some major bullets with D'Angelo Russell and Okafor - Russell should be the most talented guy on the team but he was being outshone by first Levert and now Dinwiddie - what the heck!). The Knicks are loaded in lottery talent (Vonleh, Hezonja, Kanter, Burke, Mudiay, Knox, Ntilikina) even without KP.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
arkrud
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1/3/2019  2:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/3/2019  2:08 PM
technomaster wrote:I think a few players are having career type seasons statistically and are ostensibly showing improvement.
TH JR has been producing like an all-star, at least he was prior to his leg/foot woes. Hide the names and you'd have a hard time telling which are Klay Thompson's and which are Hardaway's.

Vonleh's been outstanding. While he's not quite the rebounder or offensive presence as Kanter, he looks like a far superior defensive player in the modern game. He seems primed to play a Chris Bosh (Miami-style) type of role.

Dotson has produced some nice flashes of being a competent NBA player, perhaps more than a rotation guy.

Luke Kornet, my gosh, looks like a competent rotation player. He's not a pure athlete by any means, but he looks worthy of putting in quality minutes.

The rookies have all shown flashes of brilliance (though all have been hampered by injury at one point or another, slowing their progress).

Even Mudiay looks like a player. I think with all of the hype around Mudiay, it does appear as if Fizdale and team have improved his ability to finish his drives. This year he's shooting an astounding (and outstanding) 46% from the field after being at sub-39% for his career to date. This alone makes him a different and much improved player. I think Mudiay has graduated to having a floor as a journeyman level player. He still has ample upside (perhaps along the lines of Tyreke Evans... or Evan Turner?)...

The failures so far:
Ntilikina has regressed. As pointed out numerous times in this board, his comfort zone is as a system player and Fizdale isn't doing that. He doesn't seem to do well freelancing and playing street ball. The tough thing is that in 1.5 seasons, he's basically averaged quality minutes already, so playing time isn't holding him back. I think the Knicks would do well to send him down to the G-league and tell him to do his best impression of Allen Iverson. (That worked out well for Burke, at least for a portion of last season) Kind of reminds me of Nick Batum - though in the case of Batum, he's paid over $30m/year to be a star, and the guy comes across as statistically passive. I think Batum's a high end rotation/low end starting player, perhaps at the $8-12m salary range. I'd like to think Ntilikina has the tools to be better.

Trey Burke has also regressed. This is one of the bigger disappointments of this season for me. Yeah, he's battled injury as of late, but he ended last season on such a strong note that I was really hoping it'd carry over to this season.

Hezonja has not been good. I'm curious if we'll find out late in the season that he was playing with a torn rotator cuff or dislocated wrist or something. :) I expected him to come in as a gunslinger and basically produce like he did on last year's bad Orlando team - basically be like Evan Fournier, or at least, the statistical equivalent of Dotson. It hasn't been good. This guy's floor may not be as an NBA player.

Our record. It's really bad. Maybe we're just doing quality tanking. If anything this is the year to do it.
But when I look at the Brooklyn Nets roster vs ours, I have a tough time understanding why their record is so much better than ours. Are they really more talented? Is their coach really better? They're winning largely without high 1st round picks (we dodged some major bullets with D'Angelo Russell and Okafor - Russell should be the most talented guy on the team but he was being outshone by first Levert and now Dinwiddie - what the heck!). The Knicks are loaded in lottery talent (Vonleh, Hezonja, Kanter, Burke, Mudiay, Knox, Ntilikina) even without KP.

Timmy plays better ball when he is driving to the basket more but his shot selection and defense is horrendous.
His play-making and bbal IQ are very limited. He is not a starter on good team for me but OK 6th man.
He is as much Klay as Melo is KD.
Vonleh and Kornet are very efficient role players every good team should have. But I do not see them as starters on good team.
Kanter is helping to lose games probably better that any other player in NBA so if some other team wants to tank we should trade him to them.
They will get better pick and Kanter will get better stats.
Mud is another offensive PG with no defense and suspect play-making.
When he is not getting blocked by the rim he is looking good. He is OK backup PG for 15 min but not on the good team.
He need to show me much more and for much longer stretch to change my mind on him.
Frank is fine. He will be very good with better players and in established system.
His time is a couple of years from now.
Dot is pure shooter and he is already a legit backup.
He need to add more offense and be a better passer to get to next level. Not sure he is capable zo.
Mitch is some unique talent which should be a great player but this is years from now and if he can avoid major injuries.
The rest of the dudes are just a bunch of stop-gaps.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
knicks1248
Posts: 38927
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1/3/2019  3:19 PM
arkrud wrote:
technomaster wrote:I think a few players are having career type seasons statistically and are ostensibly showing improvement.
TH JR has been producing like an all-star, at least he was prior to his leg/foot woes. Hide the names and you'd have a hard time telling which are Klay Thompson's and which are Hardaway's.

Vonleh's been outstanding. While he's not quite the rebounder or offensive presence as Kanter, he looks like a far superior defensive player in the modern game. He seems primed to play a Chris Bosh (Miami-style) type of role.

Dotson has produced some nice flashes of being a competent NBA player, perhaps more than a rotation guy.

Luke Kornet, my gosh, looks like a competent rotation player. He's not a pure athlete by any means, but he looks worthy of putting in quality minutes.

The rookies have all shown flashes of brilliance (though all have been hampered by injury at one point or another, slowing their progress).

Even Mudiay looks like a player. I think with all of the hype around Mudiay, it does appear as if Fizdale and team have improved his ability to finish his drives. This year he's shooting an astounding (and outstanding) 46% from the field after being at sub-39% for his career to date. This alone makes him a different and much improved player. I think Mudiay has graduated to having a floor as a journeyman level player. He still has ample upside (perhaps along the lines of Tyreke Evans... or Evan Turner?)...

The failures so far:
Ntilikina has regressed. As pointed out numerous times in this board, his comfort zone is as a system player and Fizdale isn't doing that. He doesn't seem to do well freelancing and playing street ball. The tough thing is that in 1.5 seasons, he's basically averaged quality minutes already, so playing time isn't holding him back. I think the Knicks would do well to send him down to the G-league and tell him to do his best impression of Allen Iverson. (That worked out well for Burke, at least for a portion of last season) Kind of reminds me of Nick Batum - though in the case of Batum, he's paid over $30m/year to be a star, and the guy comes across as statistically passive. I think Batum's a high end rotation/low end starting player, perhaps at the $8-12m salary range. I'd like to think Ntilikina has the tools to be better.

Trey Burke has also regressed. This is one of the bigger disappointments of this season for me. Yeah, he's battled injury as of late, but he ended last season on such a strong note that I was really hoping it'd carry over to this season.

Hezonja has not been good. I'm curious if we'll find out late in the season that he was playing with a torn rotator cuff or dislocated wrist or something. :) I expected him to come in as a gunslinger and basically produce like he did on last year's bad Orlando team - basically be like Evan Fournier, or at least, the statistical equivalent of Dotson. It hasn't been good. This guy's floor may not be as an NBA player.

Our record. It's really bad. Maybe we're just doing quality tanking. If anything this is the year to do it.
But when I look at the Brooklyn Nets roster vs ours, I have a tough time understanding why their record is so much better than ours. Are they really more talented? Is their coach really better? They're winning largely without high 1st round picks (we dodged some major bullets with D'Angelo Russell and Okafor - Russell should be the most talented guy on the team but he was being outshone by first Levert and now Dinwiddie - what the heck!). The Knicks are loaded in lottery talent (Vonleh, Hezonja, Kanter, Burke, Mudiay, Knox, Ntilikina) even without KP.

Timmy plays better ball when he is driving to the basket more but his shot selection and defense is horrendous.
His play-making and bbal IQ are very limited. He is not a starter on good team for me but OK 6th man.
He is as much Klay as Melo is KD.
Vonleh and Kornet are very efficient role players every good team should have. But I do not see them as starters on good team.
Kanter is helping to lose games probably better that any other player in NBA so if some other team wants to tank we should trade him to them.
They will get better pick and Kanter will get better stats.
Mud is another offensive PG with no defense and suspect play-making.
When he is not getting blocked by the rim he is looking good. He is OK backup PG for 15 min but not on the good team.
He need to show me much more and for much longer stretch to change my mind on him.
Frank is fine. He will be very good with better players and in established system.
His time is a couple of years from now.
Dot is pure shooter and he is already a legit backup.
He need to add more offense and be a better passer to get to next level. Not sure he is capable zo.
Mitch is some unique talent which should be a great player but this is years from now and if he can avoid major injuries.
The rest of the dudes are just a bunch of stop-gaps.

you knocked everyone except frank who has has the worse plus minus on the roster(there's only 4 guys worse than him in the entire NBA))..so how can anyone take you serious when your not being honest, your being bias

ES
arkrud
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1/3/2019  4:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/3/2019  4:13 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
technomaster wrote:I think a few players are having career type seasons statistically and are ostensibly showing improvement.
TH JR has been producing like an all-star, at least he was prior to his leg/foot woes. Hide the names and you'd have a hard time telling which are Klay Thompson's and which are Hardaway's.

Vonleh's been outstanding. While he's not quite the rebounder or offensive presence as Kanter, he looks like a far superior defensive player in the modern game. He seems primed to play a Chris Bosh (Miami-style) type of role.

Dotson has produced some nice flashes of being a competent NBA player, perhaps more than a rotation guy.

Luke Kornet, my gosh, looks like a competent rotation player. He's not a pure athlete by any means, but he looks worthy of putting in quality minutes.

The rookies have all shown flashes of brilliance (though all have been hampered by injury at one point or another, slowing their progress).

Even Mudiay looks like a player. I think with all of the hype around Mudiay, it does appear as if Fizdale and team have improved his ability to finish his drives. This year he's shooting an astounding (and outstanding) 46% from the field after being at sub-39% for his career to date. This alone makes him a different and much improved player. I think Mudiay has graduated to having a floor as a journeyman level player. He still has ample upside (perhaps along the lines of Tyreke Evans... or Evan Turner?)...

The failures so far:
Ntilikina has regressed. As pointed out numerous times in this board, his comfort zone is as a system player and Fizdale isn't doing that. He doesn't seem to do well freelancing and playing street ball. The tough thing is that in 1.5 seasons, he's basically averaged quality minutes already, so playing time isn't holding him back. I think the Knicks would do well to send him down to the G-league and tell him to do his best impression of Allen Iverson. (That worked out well for Burke, at least for a portion of last season) Kind of reminds me of Nick Batum - though in the case of Batum, he's paid over $30m/year to be a star, and the guy comes across as statistically passive. I think Batum's a high end rotation/low end starting player, perhaps at the $8-12m salary range. I'd like to think Ntilikina has the tools to be better.

Trey Burke has also regressed. This is one of the bigger disappointments of this season for me. Yeah, he's battled injury as of late, but he ended last season on such a strong note that I was really hoping it'd carry over to this season.

Hezonja has not been good. I'm curious if we'll find out late in the season that he was playing with a torn rotator cuff or dislocated wrist or something. :) I expected him to come in as a gunslinger and basically produce like he did on last year's bad Orlando team - basically be like Evan Fournier, or at least, the statistical equivalent of Dotson. It hasn't been good. This guy's floor may not be as an NBA player.

Our record. It's really bad. Maybe we're just doing quality tanking. If anything this is the year to do it.
But when I look at the Brooklyn Nets roster vs ours, I have a tough time understanding why their record is so much better than ours. Are they really more talented? Is their coach really better? They're winning largely without high 1st round picks (we dodged some major bullets with D'Angelo Russell and Okafor - Russell should be the most talented guy on the team but he was being outshone by first Levert and now Dinwiddie - what the heck!). The Knicks are loaded in lottery talent (Vonleh, Hezonja, Kanter, Burke, Mudiay, Knox, Ntilikina) even without KP.

Timmy plays better ball when he is driving to the basket more but his shot selection and defense is horrendous.
His play-making and bbal IQ are very limited. He is not a starter on good team for me but OK 6th man.
He is as much Klay as Melo is KD.
Vonleh and Kornet are very efficient role players every good team should have. But I do not see them as starters on good team.
Kanter is helping to lose games probably better that any other player in NBA so if some other team wants to tank we should trade him to them.
They will get better pick and Kanter will get better stats.
Mud is another offensive PG with no defense and suspect play-making.
When he is not getting blocked by the rim he is looking good. He is OK backup PG for 15 min but not on the good team.
He need to show me much more and for much longer stretch to change my mind on him.
Frank is fine. He will be very good with better players and in established system.
His time is a couple of years from now.
Dot is pure shooter and he is already a legit backup.
He need to add more offense and be a better passer to get to next level. Not sure he is capable zo.
Mitch is some unique talent which should be a great player but this is years from now and if he can avoid major injuries.
The rest of the dudes are just a bunch of stop-gaps.

you knocked everyone except frank who has has the worse plus minus on the roster(there's only 4 guys worse than him in the entire NBA))..so how can anyone take you serious when your not being honest, your being bias

How anyone can take you serious with your fixation of 20 year old youngster whom you want to see playing like a star?
I stated that I will reserve my judgment for him for 2 more years. Same for Knox whom I never mentioned as he is doing better that expected and will eventually have a bad stretch. I have no issues with Knox, Trier, Mitch, and Frank. They too young to judge them.
They all already have their good and bad moments and this all means nothing for now.
We need them to perform in 2-3 years from now. Why bother to wonder so far into always uncertain future.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
knicks1248
Posts: 38927
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
1/3/2019  5:00 PM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
technomaster wrote:I think a few players are having career type seasons statistically and are ostensibly showing improvement.
TH JR has been producing like an all-star, at least he was prior to his leg/foot woes. Hide the names and you'd have a hard time telling which are Klay Thompson's and which are Hardaway's.

Vonleh's been outstanding. While he's not quite the rebounder or offensive presence as Kanter, he looks like a far superior defensive player in the modern game. He seems primed to play a Chris Bosh (Miami-style) type of role.

Dotson has produced some nice flashes of being a competent NBA player, perhaps more than a rotation guy.

Luke Kornet, my gosh, looks like a competent rotation player. He's not a pure athlete by any means, but he looks worthy of putting in quality minutes.

The rookies have all shown flashes of brilliance (though all have been hampered by injury at one point or another, slowing their progress).

Even Mudiay looks like a player. I think with all of the hype around Mudiay, it does appear as if Fizdale and team have improved his ability to finish his drives. This year he's shooting an astounding (and outstanding) 46% from the field after being at sub-39% for his career to date. This alone makes him a different and much improved player. I think Mudiay has graduated to having a floor as a journeyman level player. He still has ample upside (perhaps along the lines of Tyreke Evans... or Evan Turner?)...

The failures so far:
Ntilikina has regressed. As pointed out numerous times in this board, his comfort zone is as a system player and Fizdale isn't doing that. He doesn't seem to do well freelancing and playing street ball. The tough thing is that in 1.5 seasons, he's basically averaged quality minutes already, so playing time isn't holding him back. I think the Knicks would do well to send him down to the G-league and tell him to do his best impression of Allen Iverson. (That worked out well for Burke, at least for a portion of last season) Kind of reminds me of Nick Batum - though in the case of Batum, he's paid over $30m/year to be a star, and the guy comes across as statistically passive. I think Batum's a high end rotation/low end starting player, perhaps at the $8-12m salary range. I'd like to think Ntilikina has the tools to be better.

Trey Burke has also regressed. This is one of the bigger disappointments of this season for me. Yeah, he's battled injury as of late, but he ended last season on such a strong note that I was really hoping it'd carry over to this season.

Hezonja has not been good. I'm curious if we'll find out late in the season that he was playing with a torn rotator cuff or dislocated wrist or something. :) I expected him to come in as a gunslinger and basically produce like he did on last year's bad Orlando team - basically be like Evan Fournier, or at least, the statistical equivalent of Dotson. It hasn't been good. This guy's floor may not be as an NBA player.

Our record. It's really bad. Maybe we're just doing quality tanking. If anything this is the year to do it.
But when I look at the Brooklyn Nets roster vs ours, I have a tough time understanding why their record is so much better than ours. Are they really more talented? Is their coach really better? They're winning largely without high 1st round picks (we dodged some major bullets with D'Angelo Russell and Okafor - Russell should be the most talented guy on the team but he was being outshone by first Levert and now Dinwiddie - what the heck!). The Knicks are loaded in lottery talent (Vonleh, Hezonja, Kanter, Burke, Mudiay, Knox, Ntilikina) even without KP.

Timmy plays better ball when he is driving to the basket more but his shot selection and defense is horrendous.
His play-making and bbal IQ are very limited. He is not a starter on good team for me but OK 6th man.
He is as much Klay as Melo is KD.
Vonleh and Kornet are very efficient role players every good team should have. But I do not see them as starters on good team.
Kanter is helping to lose games probably better that any other player in NBA so if some other team wants to tank we should trade him to them.
They will get better pick and Kanter will get better stats.
Mud is another offensive PG with no defense and suspect play-making.
When he is not getting blocked by the rim he is looking good. He is OK backup PG for 15 min but not on the good team.
He need to show me much more and for much longer stretch to change my mind on him.
Frank is fine. He will be very good with better players and in established system.
His time is a couple of years from now.
Dot is pure shooter and he is already a legit backup.
He need to add more offense and be a better passer to get to next level. Not sure he is capable zo.
Mitch is some unique talent which should be a great player but this is years from now and if he can avoid major injuries.
The rest of the dudes are just a bunch of stop-gaps.

you knocked everyone except frank who has has the worse plus minus on the roster(there's only 4 guys worse than him in the entire NBA))..so how can anyone take you serious when your not being honest, your being bias

How anyone can take you serious with your fixation of 20 year old youngster whom you want to see playing like a star?
I stated that I will reserve my judgment for him for 2 more years. Same for Knox whom I never mentioned as he is doing better that expected and will eventually have a bad stretch. I have no issues with Knox, Trier, Mitch, and Frank. They too young to judge them.
They all already have their good and bad moments and this all means nothing for now.
We need them to perform in 2-3 years from now. Why bother to wonder so far into always uncertain future.

you think frank is the only 20 yr old in the league, Knox is younger than frank and 10x better, so is trey young, not to mention there are 100's of players better then him, cheaper, and have more upside..so why should we wait?

If there is an opportunity to upgrade any position, thats the only thing you should be concern with considering how bad we are, how bad we have been (going on 6 yrs)..

You shouldn't hesitate to trade anyone if your getting better returns..

ES
Nalod
Posts: 57885
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Member: #508
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1/3/2019  6:39 PM
Rainman, you can't undo the last 6 years.
And you shouldn't wait. Nobody said for you to wait.
That's a fans choice.
We are waiting. We are watching and waiting for the turn. It will happen.
You want past performance to restore your faith.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
arkrud
Posts: 31771
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
1/3/2019  6:41 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
technomaster wrote:I think a few players are having career type seasons statistically and are ostensibly showing improvement.
TH JR has been producing like an all-star, at least he was prior to his leg/foot woes. Hide the names and you'd have a hard time telling which are Klay Thompson's and which are Hardaway's.

Vonleh's been outstanding. While he's not quite the rebounder or offensive presence as Kanter, he looks like a far superior defensive player in the modern game. He seems primed to play a Chris Bosh (Miami-style) type of role.

Dotson has produced some nice flashes of being a competent NBA player, perhaps more than a rotation guy.

Luke Kornet, my gosh, looks like a competent rotation player. He's not a pure athlete by any means, but he looks worthy of putting in quality minutes.

The rookies have all shown flashes of brilliance (though all have been hampered by injury at one point or another, slowing their progress).

Even Mudiay looks like a player. I think with all of the hype around Mudiay, it does appear as if Fizdale and team have improved his ability to finish his drives. This year he's shooting an astounding (and outstanding) 46% from the field after being at sub-39% for his career to date. This alone makes him a different and much improved player. I think Mudiay has graduated to having a floor as a journeyman level player. He still has ample upside (perhaps along the lines of Tyreke Evans... or Evan Turner?)...

The failures so far:
Ntilikina has regressed. As pointed out numerous times in this board, his comfort zone is as a system player and Fizdale isn't doing that. He doesn't seem to do well freelancing and playing street ball. The tough thing is that in 1.5 seasons, he's basically averaged quality minutes already, so playing time isn't holding him back. I think the Knicks would do well to send him down to the G-league and tell him to do his best impression of Allen Iverson. (That worked out well for Burke, at least for a portion of last season) Kind of reminds me of Nick Batum - though in the case of Batum, he's paid over $30m/year to be a star, and the guy comes across as statistically passive. I think Batum's a high end rotation/low end starting player, perhaps at the $8-12m salary range. I'd like to think Ntilikina has the tools to be better.

Trey Burke has also regressed. This is one of the bigger disappointments of this season for me. Yeah, he's battled injury as of late, but he ended last season on such a strong note that I was really hoping it'd carry over to this season.

Hezonja has not been good. I'm curious if we'll find out late in the season that he was playing with a torn rotator cuff or dislocated wrist or something. :) I expected him to come in as a gunslinger and basically produce like he did on last year's bad Orlando team - basically be like Evan Fournier, or at least, the statistical equivalent of Dotson. It hasn't been good. This guy's floor may not be as an NBA player.

Our record. It's really bad. Maybe we're just doing quality tanking. If anything this is the year to do it.
But when I look at the Brooklyn Nets roster vs ours, I have a tough time understanding why their record is so much better than ours. Are they really more talented? Is their coach really better? They're winning largely without high 1st round picks (we dodged some major bullets with D'Angelo Russell and Okafor - Russell should be the most talented guy on the team but he was being outshone by first Levert and now Dinwiddie - what the heck!). The Knicks are loaded in lottery talent (Vonleh, Hezonja, Kanter, Burke, Mudiay, Knox, Ntilikina) even without KP.

Timmy plays better ball when he is driving to the basket more but his shot selection and defense is horrendous.
His play-making and bbal IQ are very limited. He is not a starter on good team for me but OK 6th man.
He is as much Klay as Melo is KD.
Vonleh and Kornet are very efficient role players every good team should have. But I do not see them as starters on good team.
Kanter is helping to lose games probably better that any other player in NBA so if some other team wants to tank we should trade him to them.
They will get better pick and Kanter will get better stats.
Mud is another offensive PG with no defense and suspect play-making.
When he is not getting blocked by the rim he is looking good. He is OK backup PG for 15 min but not on the good team.
He need to show me much more and for much longer stretch to change my mind on him.
Frank is fine. He will be very good with better players and in established system.
His time is a couple of years from now.
Dot is pure shooter and he is already a legit backup.
He need to add more offense and be a better passer to get to next level. Not sure he is capable zo.
Mitch is some unique talent which should be a great player but this is years from now and if he can avoid major injuries.
The rest of the dudes are just a bunch of stop-gaps.

you knocked everyone except frank who has has the worse plus minus on the roster(there's only 4 guys worse than him in the entire NBA))..so how can anyone take you serious when your not being honest, your being bias

How anyone can take you serious with your fixation of 20 year old youngster whom you want to see playing like a star?
I stated that I will reserve my judgment for him for 2 more years. Same for Knox whom I never mentioned as he is doing better that expected and will eventually have a bad stretch. I have no issues with Knox, Trier, Mitch, and Frank. They too young to judge them.
They all already have their good and bad moments and this all means nothing for now.
We need them to perform in 2-3 years from now. Why bother to wonder so far into always uncertain future.

you think frank is the only 20 yr old in the league, Knox is younger than frank and 10x better, so is trey young, not to mention there are 100's of players better then him, cheaper, and have more upside..so why should we wait?

If there is an opportunity to upgrade any position, thats the only thing you should be concern with considering how bad we are, how bad we have been (going on 6 yrs)..

You shouldn't hesitate to trade anyone if your getting better returns..

Agreed on upgrading the roster but only with players who meet our timeline, do not reduce our abilities to sign top FAs, for cap friendly contract, and without losing significant assets.
We do not need players who will help to win a couple more meaningless games.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
fwk00
Posts: 21133
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/20/2015
Member: #6048

1/3/2019  9:05 PM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
technomaster wrote:I think a few players are having career type seasons statistically and are ostensibly showing improvement.
TH JR has been producing like an all-star, at least he was prior to his leg/foot woes. Hide the names and you'd have a hard time telling which are Klay Thompson's and which are Hardaway's.

Vonleh's been outstanding. While he's not quite the rebounder or offensive presence as Kanter, he looks like a far superior defensive player in the modern game. He seems primed to play a Chris Bosh (Miami-style) type of role.

Dotson has produced some nice flashes of being a competent NBA player, perhaps more than a rotation guy.

Luke Kornet, my gosh, looks like a competent rotation player. He's not a pure athlete by any means, but he looks worthy of putting in quality minutes.

The rookies have all shown flashes of brilliance (though all have been hampered by injury at one point or another, slowing their progress).

Even Mudiay looks like a player. I think with all of the hype around Mudiay, it does appear as if Fizdale and team have improved his ability to finish his drives. This year he's shooting an astounding (and outstanding) 46% from the field after being at sub-39% for his career to date. This alone makes him a different and much improved player. I think Mudiay has graduated to having a floor as a journeyman level player. He still has ample upside (perhaps along the lines of Tyreke Evans... or Evan Turner?)...

The failures so far:
Ntilikina has regressed. As pointed out numerous times in this board, his comfort zone is as a system player and Fizdale isn't doing that. He doesn't seem to do well freelancing and playing street ball. The tough thing is that in 1.5 seasons, he's basically averaged quality minutes already, so playing time isn't holding him back. I think the Knicks would do well to send him down to the G-league and tell him to do his best impression of Allen Iverson. (That worked out well for Burke, at least for a portion of last season) Kind of reminds me of Nick Batum - though in the case of Batum, he's paid over $30m/year to be a star, and the guy comes across as statistically passive. I think Batum's a high end rotation/low end starting player, perhaps at the $8-12m salary range. I'd like to think Ntilikina has the tools to be better.

Trey Burke has also regressed. This is one of the bigger disappointments of this season for me. Yeah, he's battled injury as of late, but he ended last season on such a strong note that I was really hoping it'd carry over to this season.

Hezonja has not been good. I'm curious if we'll find out late in the season that he was playing with a torn rotator cuff or dislocated wrist or something. :) I expected him to come in as a gunslinger and basically produce like he did on last year's bad Orlando team - basically be like Evan Fournier, or at least, the statistical equivalent of Dotson. It hasn't been good. This guy's floor may not be as an NBA player.

Our record. It's really bad. Maybe we're just doing quality tanking. If anything this is the year to do it.
But when I look at the Brooklyn Nets roster vs ours, I have a tough time understanding why their record is so much better than ours. Are they really more talented? Is their coach really better? They're winning largely without high 1st round picks (we dodged some major bullets with D'Angelo Russell and Okafor - Russell should be the most talented guy on the team but he was being outshone by first Levert and now Dinwiddie - what the heck!). The Knicks are loaded in lottery talent (Vonleh, Hezonja, Kanter, Burke, Mudiay, Knox, Ntilikina) even without KP.

Timmy plays better ball when he is driving to the basket more but his shot selection and defense is horrendous.
His play-making and bbal IQ are very limited. He is not a starter on good team for me but OK 6th man.
He is as much Klay as Melo is KD.
Vonleh and Kornet are very efficient role players every good team should have. But I do not see them as starters on good team.
Kanter is helping to lose games probably better that any other player in NBA so if some other team wants to tank we should trade him to them.
They will get better pick and Kanter will get better stats.
Mud is another offensive PG with no defense and suspect play-making.
When he is not getting blocked by the rim he is looking good. He is OK backup PG for 15 min but not on the good team.
He need to show me much more and for much longer stretch to change my mind on him.
Frank is fine. He will be very good with better players and in established system.
His time is a couple of years from now.
Dot is pure shooter and he is already a legit backup.
He need to add more offense and be a better passer to get to next level. Not sure he is capable zo.
Mitch is some unique talent which should be a great player but this is years from now and if he can avoid major injuries.
The rest of the dudes are just a bunch of stop-gaps.

you knocked everyone except frank who has has the worse plus minus on the roster(there's only 4 guys worse than him in the entire NBA))..so how can anyone take you serious when your not being honest, your being bias

How anyone can take you serious with your fixation of 20 year old youngster whom you want to see playing like a star?
I stated that I will reserve my judgment for him for 2 more years. Same for Knox whom I never mentioned as he is doing better that expected and will eventually have a bad stretch. I have no issues with Knox, Trier, Mitch, and Frank. They too young to judge them.
They all already have their good and bad moments and this all means nothing for now.
We need them to perform in 2-3 years from now. Why bother to wonder so far into always uncertain future.

you think frank is the only 20 yr old in the league, Knox is younger than frank and 10x better, so is trey young, not to mention there are 100's of players better then him, cheaper, and have more upside..so why should we wait?

If there is an opportunity to upgrade any position, thats the only thing you should be concern with considering how bad we are, how bad we have been (going on 6 yrs)..

You shouldn't hesitate to trade anyone if your getting better returns..

Agreed on upgrading the roster but only with players who meet our timeline, do not reduce our abilities to sign top FAs, for cap friendly contract, and without losing significant assets.
We do not need players who will help to win a couple more meaningless games.

This, exactly. Its the beauty of this losing season that Knox, Frankie, and the rest can just go out there and play hard and learn. Winning is irrelevant.

TripleThreat
Posts: 22331
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1/3/2019  11:52 PM
knicks1248 wrote:You shouldn't hesitate to trade anyone if your getting better returns..


This is absolutely positively true.

But the marketplace as it currently stands means the Knicks will get NOTHING that is a better return if they trade Frank N right now.

NOTHING.

The same reasons you have concerns are the same reasons other teams won't cough up anything that would qualify as a "better return"

You can't spend all this team ****ting on Frank N ( you have a point sometimes, but often you lose the full context) and then expect there to be a good trade for him ( Good as in good for the Knicks) You can't have it both ways.

Frank N is more valuable right now ( relatively) than anything they could get in trade for him right now. You backed yourself into this corner.

Feel free to discuss what you think the Knicks could get for Frank N right now.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
fwk00
Posts: 21133
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Joined: 5/20/2015
Member: #6048

1/4/2019  12:26 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:You shouldn't hesitate to trade anyone if your getting better returns..


This is absolutely positively true.

But the marketplace as it currently stands means the Knicks will get NOTHING that is a better return if they trade Frank N right now.

NOTHING.

The same reasons you have concerns are the same reasons other teams won't cough up anything that would qualify as a "better return"

You can't spend all this team ****ting on Frank N ( you have a point sometimes, but often you lose the full context) and then expect there to be a good trade for him ( Good as in good for the Knicks) You can't have it both ways.

Frank N is more valuable right now ( relatively) than anything they could get in trade for him right now. You backed yourself into this corner.

Feel free to discuss what you think the Knicks could get for Frank N right now.

You beat me to this. You can't trash a player 24/7 and expect anyone else to disagree at the bargaining table.

There's an old Steve Martin comedy sketch where he plays an American tourist bartering with a native craftsman. No matter what the craftsman asks for he item, Martin insists he pay even more for it. Funny stuff.

Nalod
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1/4/2019  3:07 AM
Frank went 1-7 against Utah. A fan can harp on the loss which was bad. Or the 6 shots frank missed.
But the one he hit? It was something we have not seen quite much of.

That’s progress. He did that to Rudy Gobert. Reasons to be hopeful.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
SupremeCommander
Posts: 32742
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1/4/2019  11:00 AM
Nalod wrote:Frank went 1-7 against Utah. A fan can harp on the loss which was bad. Or the 6 shots frank missed.
But the one he hit? It was something we have not seen quite much of.

That's progress. He did that to Rudy Gobert. Reasons to be hopeful.

that was nice to see, for sure... I know Frank is a lightning rod but I mean the Knicks have more to gain but (hopefully) developing him than they do by trading him for a second rounder or whatever they could get now. I'm for this route because it's easy to love Frank's best case outcome. I think if he can play angry like that consistently he'll be an asset. That dunk was very Spreewellian

Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
knicks1248
Posts: 38927
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1/4/2019  1:26 PM
No player on the roster is sure they will be on the roster next yr other than Knox,(and maybe THJ) no player has a role on this roster other than Mudiay, no player on this roster has stepped up in a leadership role, no player on this roster plays hard for more than a quarter or 2, they all look utterly confused 70% of each game, as if we were running the triangle.

The last time we had a the exact same situation like this, we won 17 games, and we had the same amount of cap space going into the off season, with several big name FA, bypassing the knicks.

Like you guys just seen this whole movie playout just 3 yrs ago and you act has if this FO is doing something different, with the GM then, now the president..


In the 19 months this FO has been running the show, we have literally gotten worse..

ES
fwk00
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1/4/2019  3:29 PM
knicks1248 wrote:No player on the roster is sure they will be on the roster next yr other than Knox,(and maybe THJ) no player has a role on this roster other than Mudiay, no player on this roster has stepped up in a leadership role, no player on this roster plays hard for more than a quarter or 2, they all look utterly confused 70% of each game, as if we were running the triangle.

The last time we had a the exact same situation like this, we won 17 games, and we had the same amount of cap space going into the off season, with several big name FA, bypassing the knicks.

Like you guys just seen this whole movie playout just 3 yrs ago and you act has if this FO is doing something different, with the GM then, now the president..


In the 19 months this FO has been running the show, we have literally gotten worse..

I miss Phil, too.

Kemet
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Member: #6148

1/4/2019  5:32 PM
knicks1248 wrote:No player on the roster is sure they will be on the roster next yr other than Knox,(and maybe THJ) no player has a role on this roster other than Mudiay, no player on this roster has stepped up in a leadership role, no player on this roster plays hard for more than a quarter or 2, they all look utterly confused 70% of each game, as if we were running the triangle.

The last time we had a the exact same situation like this, we won 17 games, and we had the same amount of cap space going into the off season, with several big name FA, bypassing the knicks.

Like you guys just seen this whole movie playout just 3 yrs ago and you act has if this FO is doing something different, with the GM then, now the president..


In the 19 months this FO has been running the show, we have literally gotten worse..


So True !!! I thought the Knicks clueless Front-Office were gonna forgive the 54 Win Old-Timers by giving practically all of them a job on the Knicks and G.League coaching staff on their retirement to keep the Knicks in winning mode.
I believe Jason Kidd, Kurt Thomas, and Rasheed Wallace did a great job on the roster of players.
All 3 Old-Timers were Keepers !!!

Vmart
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1/4/2019  5:51 PM
Funny quote from Fizz. He wants to simplify the system. That had me rolling in the ground.
The system for now.......

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