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The system for now.......
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Nalod
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12/27/2018  12:13 PM
I think I figured out what Fiz is doing. Im sure its obvious to most of us. Bottom line is Knicks are developing guys by letting them loose with little "System". The ball don't move much. Its what it is. Guys shoot well we compete and we might just win. Its like March Madness. They are hard shots we take. Frank does not get easy looks or is he running much Pick n'rolls like he did last year.
My hope is Frank would look better with talent around him so his defense and passing is more apparent. There is little ball movement or guys moving without the ball so a fundamental guy like Frank gets lost.
So when Fiz says he is letting these guys be themselves that's fine for now. Later when they are confident in their style at this level they will have to then blend it into a system/team concept. Its why Frank looked better last year. He only looks good when he is hitting shots. Our College Zone defense takes away individual defense which frank excels at.
Does that make Knox or trier less effective? Might be but what are they doing now? Acclimating their current games to the NBA speed and power. If this is our system it won't do much for frank and thus he'll struggle. If im taking Mills and Fiz at their word when they say "Frank is important to us in the future". One day when KP is back, we draft more talent, the other guys find who they are and then:

We put it together.

Its why Vonleh is doing well, Mudiay is doing well, trier is doing well. Burke is either super hot or he is awful. Burke will tear it up on some nights and we'll be happy. If mudiay's low passing IQ and defense is not up to par he will look bad again when we put it together. This is why I don't think we just dump frank now. he will be a hell of a player on a team that needs what he does. Fiz is trying to get him to just shoot and get him ready for when we are a more complete team. I can't predict how he responds. Gleague won't do much for him because he needs to do it at this level.

Its the process for now. Or that's what I see.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
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CrushAlot
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12/27/2018  12:42 PM
Nalod wrote:I think I figured out what Fiz is doing. Im sure its obvious to most of us. Bottom line is Knicks are developing guys by letting them loose with little "System". The ball don't move much. Its what it is. Guys shoot well we compete and we might just win. Its like March Madness. They are hard shots we take. Frank does not get easy looks or is he running much Pick n'rolls like he did last year.
My hope is Frank would look better with talent around him so his defense and passing is more apparent. There is little ball movement or guys moving without the ball so a fundamental guy like Frank gets lost.
So when Fiz says he is letting these guys be themselves that's fine for now. Later when they are confident in their style at this level they will have to then blend it into a system/team concept. Its why Frank looked better last year. He only looks good when he is hitting shots. Our College Zone defense takes away individual defense which frank excels at.
Does that make Knox or trier less effective? Might be but what are they doing now? Acclimating their current games to the NBA speed and power. If this is our system it won't do much for frank and thus he'll struggle. If im taking Mills and Fiz at their word when they say "Frank is important to us in the future". One day when KP is back, we draft more talent, the other guys find who they are and then:

We put it together.

Its why Vonleh is doing well, Mudiay is doing well, trier is doing well. Burke is either super hot or he is awful. Burke will tear it up on some nights and we'll be happy. If mudiay's low passing IQ and defense is not up to par he will look bad again when we put it together. This is why I don't think we just dump frank now. he will be a hell of a player on a team that needs what he does. Fiz is trying to get him to just shoot and get him ready for when we are a more complete team. I can't predict how he responds. Gleague won't do much for him because he needs to do it at this level.

Its the process for now. Or that's what I see.

I just listened to a podcast with Johnathan Wasserman on KFS. It is definitely worth a listen and most of it was about the 19 draft. He did talk a bit about Frank though. One of the things he said was Frank doesn't have the blow by speed to play point guard in the nba and that this was why he was a two guard in France. He also said that he thinks Frank will eventually make it as an nba player but he doesn't think it will happen in NY. He said he was disappointed in how it appears Frank reacts when he has bad games (body language etc.). He pointed out that Frank has experienced the nba for a season and a half and should be used to ups and downs in his own play/performance. A lot of good draft stuff in the podcast. He talks a bit about Ja Morant and similarities in his game to De'Aaron Fox. Said Zion is in a tier by himself.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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12/27/2018  3:57 PM
Everyone has their opinion. Good article on the beat:
https://nypost.com/2018/12/27/frank-ntilikina-is-out-of-the-doghouse-and-has-fizdale-raving/
Contradicts a bit his attitude but whose to really know how Frank is dealing with it. He was dejected as it was Christmas and his mom was in town. But he tells coach to "not worry and he'll be ready".
Kid is human, its ok to be down. But he is a pro and has to rise up too!! We think its a glamour thing all the time but its a pressure job and young guys don't always take it well.
Article says you either love the kid or not. Little room in between. Very true!!!!
You don't show a fool a job half done!
TripleThreat
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12/27/2018  9:20 PM
Nalod wrote:I think I figured out what Fiz is doing. Im sure its obvious to most of us. Bottom line is Knicks are developing guys by letting them loose with little "System". The ball don't move much. Its what it is.
Its the process for now. Or that's what I see.


What in the entire world are you talking about?

The Knicks have several dudes who are playing for their next contract and to stay in the league and many of them know they have zero future with the Knicks.

Guys like Burke and Kanter are blackholes because it's their normal style of play. And they know the Knicks won't resign them. And they know the Knicks don't have the depth to bench them for long. They are going to try to drive up their counting stats to try to get a better deal in the offseason. Many here forget, NBA owners are not always the brightest minds in the world. While GMs and scouts and cap guys have to take a deep look at the numbers, many owners will just see counting stats and be impressed.

Fizdale says pass the ball or else. Why would Burke or Kanter care? Or Mudiay? Or even Trier? He can sit them down for series, maybe a quarter, maybe a few games, but the Knicks don't have the depth to do it for long. This is part of the reason why when a major corporation lays off a ton of people, they have security walk them out on a Friday. You want them to get even two minutes to get back into the system? To take stuff? To destroy stuff?

Knicks will get effort because those dudes want a new contract. But they aren't getting team work because that doesn't help them get paid.

Money Rules Over Everything. How in the entire world do you avoid the most obvious motive in our society (money aka MROE)?

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
TheGame
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12/29/2018  10:14 AM
I agree with Nalod's comment that will look better with more ball movement. He is the type of player that needs ball movement and pick and rolls to be effective. Trier and Knox rarely setup teammates and even Hardaway is only so-so at it. Frank needs guys to setup clean looks for him and he needs to be involved in more pick and rolls.
Playoffs or bust
meloshouldgo
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12/29/2018  10:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/29/2018  11:40 AM
The system for now.... doesn't exist
I have been saying this since 5 games into the season. There's no offense and the fukking zone sh!t is downright embarrassing.
I don't agree with letting them play and find their strengths like Nalod explained. Because the likes of Mudiay are finding the strengths that are completely worthless in building a team that plays structured basketball. Fizdale should focus on instilling the right fundamentals, demanding ball movement, defense, execute set plays over and over again and forget this stupid hero ball crap that Mudiay and THJR seem to be pulling night in night ot. THJR is regressing back to his old ways. None of this id good coaching on Fiz' part.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
fwk00
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12/29/2018  1:55 PM
I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.
nyvector16
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12/30/2018  10:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/30/2018  10:35 AM
fwk00 wrote:I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.

I agree. It was necessary to address mismatches after constant switching on defense. Switching on defense has been an issue for Knicks for a long time now. Problem is our players were not fast or strong enough to get around screens and picks in the past. I am not sure what the excuse is now, but zone forces them to defend their space and not rely on someone else picking up your guy.

Once Porzingis comes back and Mitch has some experience under his belt for game 1 next year, a zone with those two guys protecting the rim would be scary for opposing teams. Porzingis alone changes the entire defensive dynamic in the paint with or without zone defense.

Vmart
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12/30/2018  11:24 AM
Nalod, just face it Fizdale sucks and has no plan. If he implements a system next year then he would have lost a year of teaching for those that might be here next year. Which means he delay everything. He is an awful coach. You guys can trick yourself.
Nalod
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12/30/2018  5:20 PM
Vmart wrote:Nalod, just face it Fizdale sucks and has no plan. If he implements a system next year then he would have lost a year of teaching for those that might be here next year. Which means he delay everything. He is an awful coach. You guys can trick yourself.

The system is now not a system. LOL.
Thats my point, the team is awful. To employ a system now is to employ a bad scenario. I think the thing now is just letting these guys play some simple pick up style ball and let them develop that way. Get stronger, assimilate, try different things, etc.
This is not about Fiz being bad, its a really bad roster right now.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
meloshouldgo
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12/30/2018  5:58 PM
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Nalod, just face it Fizdale sucks and has no plan. If he implements a system next year then he would have lost a year of teaching for those that might be here next year. Which means he delay everything. He is an awful coach. You guys can trick yourself.

The system is now not a system. LOL.
Thats my point, the team is awful. To employ a system now is to employ a bad scenario. I think the thing now is just letting these guys play some simple pick up style ball and let them develop that way. Get stronger, assimilate, try different things, etc.
This is not about Fiz being bad, its a really bad roster right now.

So let them develop bad habits that will stay with them throughout their careers because we have a bad roster now? You should know better...

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
arkrud
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12/30/2018  7:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/30/2018  7:26 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Vmart wrote:Nalod, just face it Fizdale sucks and has no plan. If he implements a system next year then he would have lost a year of teaching for those that might be here next year. Which means he delay everything. He is an awful coach. You guys can trick yourself.

The system is now not a system. LOL.
Thats my point, the team is awful. To employ a system now is to employ a bad scenario. I think the thing now is just letting these guys play some simple pick up style ball and let them develop that way. Get stronger, assimilate, try different things, etc.
This is not about Fiz being bad, its a really bad roster right now.

So let them develop bad habits that will stay with them throughout their careers because we have a bad roster now? You should know better...

I agree with Fiz ways to evaluate the players pool.
Let them play and see what their tendencies are, how deep they are ingrained, can they change their ways, can they learn.
How they react to adversities, losing, straggles, benching, criticism, failure.
We already know that Kanter, Mario, Burke, Timmy, Lee, Thomas are nothing we want to preserve.
We still learn what are others made of.
This system called natural selection. The best survive, the rest gone.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
knicks1248
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12/30/2018  11:11 PM
fwk00 wrote:I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.

The worst defense in the league and you want to commend the coaching staff...hahahahah

ES
Cartman718
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12/31/2018  12:32 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.

The worst defense in the league and you want to commend the coaching staff...hahahahah

I wish he would bench Hardaway for a few games, pretty sure that soon after that we would not need zone that much. I hate the zone...man to man is best, but with this starting lineup...man to man ain't cutting it. Mudiay is not Frank-like in preventing PNR...It was only at the beginning of the 3rd quarter in the Jazz game that we really saw some good PNR defense from the Knicks. Wonder what's stopping them from doing that all game. My guess is they just don't have the stamina to do it for 48 mins. Now that's not on the coaching staff.

Defense is about effort, Offense is about the X's n O's

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
arkrud
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12/31/2018  9:54 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.

The worst defense in the league and you want to commend the coaching staff...hahahahah

I wish he would bench Hardaway for a few games, pretty sure that soon after that we would not need zone that much. I hate the zone...man to man is best, but with this starting lineup...man to man ain't cutting it. Mudiay is not Frank-like in preventing PNR...It was only at the beginning of the 3rd quarter in the Jazz game that we really saw some good PNR defense from the Knicks. Wonder what's stopping them from doing that all game. My guess is they just don't have the stamina to do it for 48 mins. Now that's not on the coaching staff.

Defense is about effort, Offense is about the X's n O's

As far as defense we have only 4 players who are potentially good on defense with 1 of them starting and 3 playing.
What do you expect?

K Porzingis - good
Emmanuel Mudiay - bad
Enes Kanter - atrocious
Courtney Lee - who cares
Lance Thomas - questionable
Frank Ntilikina - good
Tim Hardaway Jr.- atrocious
Damyean Dotson - good
Trey Burke - atrocious
Isaiah Hicks - who cares
Kevin Knox - bad
Mario Hezonja - who cares
Luke Kornet - bad
Mitch Robinson - potentially good
Allonzo Trier - bad
Noah Vonleh - good

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
CrushAlot
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12/31/2018  10:28 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.

The worst defense in the league and you want to commend the coaching staff...hahahahah

I wish he would bench Hardaway for a few games, pretty sure that soon after that we would not need zone that much. I hate the zone...man to man is best, but with this starting lineup...man to man ain't cutting it. Mudiay is not Frank-like in preventing PNR...It was only at the beginning of the 3rd quarter in the Jazz game that we really saw some good PNR defense from the Knicks. Wonder what's stopping them from doing that all game. My guess is they just don't have the stamina to do it for 48 mins. Now that's not on the coaching staff.

Defense is about effort, Offense is about the X's n O's

Not sure how Hardaway is playing through plantar fasciitis. It sucks and I can't imagine playing pick up basketball with it. It seems like it would be worth sitting Tim for a month to six weeks to let it clear up. He still is playing a ton of minutes. It is noble that he wants to earn his money but he isn't helping the team and he won't heal.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Knixkik
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12/31/2018  10:40 AM
arkrud wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.

The worst defense in the league and you want to commend the coaching staff...hahahahah

I wish he would bench Hardaway for a few games, pretty sure that soon after that we would not need zone that much. I hate the zone...man to man is best, but with this starting lineup...man to man ain't cutting it. Mudiay is not Frank-like in preventing PNR...It was only at the beginning of the 3rd quarter in the Jazz game that we really saw some good PNR defense from the Knicks. Wonder what's stopping them from doing that all game. My guess is they just don't have the stamina to do it for 48 mins. Now that's not on the coaching staff.

Defense is about effort, Offense is about the X's n O's

As far as defense we have only 4 players who are potentially good on defense with 1 of them starting and 3 playing.
What do you expect?

K Porzingis - good
Emmanuel Mudiay - bad
Enes Kanter - atrocious
Courtney Lee - who cares
Lance Thomas - questionable
Frank Ntilikina - good
Tim Hardaway Jr.- atrocious
Damyean Dotson - good
Trey Burke - atrocious
Isaiah Hicks - who cares
Kevin Knox - bad
Mario Hezonja - who cares
Luke Kornet - bad
Mitch Robinson - potentially good
Allonzo Trier - bad
Noah Vonleh - good

I agree about the defense. I really wish Ntilikina could start to figure things out on offense because i think it's really important to have a good defensive PG. I really want to grab Rubio or Collison even as a stopgap for next year because we need to improve the defense and playmaking from the PG position. Rubio, Porzingis, and Vonleh in the starting lineup can be the foundation to a good defensive team, and help offset having Hardaway and Knox at the wing positions.

Cartman718
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12/31/2018  11:00 AM
Knixkik wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.

The worst defense in the league and you want to commend the coaching staff...hahahahah

I wish he would bench Hardaway for a few games, pretty sure that soon after that we would not need zone that much. I hate the zone...man to man is best, but with this starting lineup...man to man ain't cutting it. Mudiay is not Frank-like in preventing PNR...It was only at the beginning of the 3rd quarter in the Jazz game that we really saw some good PNR defense from the Knicks. Wonder what's stopping them from doing that all game. My guess is they just don't have the stamina to do it for 48 mins. Now that's not on the coaching staff.

Defense is about effort, Offense is about the X's n O's

As far as defense we have only 4 players who are potentially good on defense with 1 of them starting and 3 playing.
What do you expect?

K Porzingis - good
Emmanuel Mudiay - bad
Enes Kanter - atrocious
Courtney Lee - who cares
Lance Thomas - questionable
Frank Ntilikina - good
Tim Hardaway Jr.- atrocious
Damyean Dotson - good
Trey Burke - atrocious
Isaiah Hicks - who cares
Kevin Knox - bad
Mario Hezonja - who cares
Luke Kornet - bad
Mitch Robinson - potentially good
Allonzo Trier - bad
Noah Vonleh - good

I agree about the defense. I really wish Ntilikina could start to figure things out on offense because i think it's really important to have a good defensive PG. I really want to grab Rubio or Collison even as a stopgap for next year because we need to improve the defense and playmaking from the PG position. Rubio, Porzingis, and Vonleh in the starting lineup can be the foundation to a good defensive team, and help offset having Hardaway and Knox at the wing positions.

Not so worried about Knox...his first year and even someone like KP didn't become an elite post defender until last year. With Knox's frame filling out as he matures, it'll be harder for folks to just push him around. Key is going to be how much he stresses on D in the next offseason and how much coach stresses that on to him. In my opinion, Fiz should give everyone realistic goals to achieve for the next season with some clear stats to achieve in there on D. I think that'll help our young players with a clear goal in mind.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Knixkik
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12/31/2018  11:33 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:I like the introduction of a zone defense. i think its an interesting innovation and I commend the coaching staff for using some imagination. Just another option.

The worst defense in the league and you want to commend the coaching staff...hahahahah

I wish he would bench Hardaway for a few games, pretty sure that soon after that we would not need zone that much. I hate the zone...man to man is best, but with this starting lineup...man to man ain't cutting it. Mudiay is not Frank-like in preventing PNR...It was only at the beginning of the 3rd quarter in the Jazz game that we really saw some good PNR defense from the Knicks. Wonder what's stopping them from doing that all game. My guess is they just don't have the stamina to do it for 48 mins. Now that's not on the coaching staff.

Defense is about effort, Offense is about the X's n O's

As far as defense we have only 4 players who are potentially good on defense with 1 of them starting and 3 playing.
What do you expect?

K Porzingis - good
Emmanuel Mudiay - bad
Enes Kanter - atrocious
Courtney Lee - who cares
Lance Thomas - questionable
Frank Ntilikina - good
Tim Hardaway Jr.- atrocious
Damyean Dotson - good
Trey Burke - atrocious
Isaiah Hicks - who cares
Kevin Knox - bad
Mario Hezonja - who cares
Luke Kornet - bad
Mitch Robinson - potentially good
Allonzo Trier - bad
Noah Vonleh - good

I agree about the defense. I really wish Ntilikina could start to figure things out on offense because i think it's really important to have a good defensive PG. I really want to grab Rubio or Collison even as a stopgap for next year because we need to improve the defense and playmaking from the PG position. Rubio, Porzingis, and Vonleh in the starting lineup can be the foundation to a good defensive team, and help offset having Hardaway and Knox at the wing positions.

Not so worried about Knox...his first year and even someone like KP didn't become an elite post defender until last year. With Knox's frame filling out as he matures, it'll be harder for folks to just push him around. Key is going to be how much he stresses on D in the next offseason and how much coach stresses that on to him. In my opinion, Fiz should give everyone realistic goals to achieve for the next season with some clear stats to achieve in there on D. I think that'll help our young players with a clear goal in mind.


I know Knox will get there, i just don't expect it in year 2. That being said, KP, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Rubio lineup can be a very good defensive lineup in future years.
knicks1248
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12/31/2018  11:44 AM
we keep hiring these young coaches and giving them Bull sht rosters to work with making everybody look bad..

I really wanted Mike Budenholzer, Casey, mark jackson, or JVG, fiz was 5th on my list.

ES
The system for now.......

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