Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Nalod wrote:I’m a Frank fan more because I hope. I’m not happy with his play and what looked like a bit of a statistically evident melt down. Part of the process is let a kid sit and then “reboot” it seems to be working with others.
Will it with frank? We’ll find out.
Will knicks do someting stupid? Won’t know until we get hindsight.
For what it’s worth, and it’s very little, Magic are actually decent on have a future. But I’m not going to pin that on Perry or the new assistant GM that replace him. Regarding Olidipo, they did not want to pay him.

I agree with a lot of this except the lame statement about Oladipo. The reality is they didn't know what they had, didn't develop and let him leave early, same with Tobias

If they had a chance of a do-over they'd keep Oladipo in a nanosecond

Clifford has essentially the same team as last year but is doing much, much better than Vogel (who I wanted here, yikes)
Budenholzer has the same Bucks team minus Jabari and has them playing phenomenally well (Yay Knicks for beating them anyway)

Coaches can make a huge difference even in a talent-driven league (See S.Kerr versus Mark Jackson as well)

they have an extremely difficult job. Xs and Os, player development, managing egos etc.

So far I give Fizz big credit in having the team play with passion. Yes, he has a bunch of young vets playing for their profession careers (they either turn it on now or play in EP, turkey, China etc) and a young of hungry rookies, but we have seen other coaches fail in the same context. Guys are playing hard and seem to genuinely like one another.

I also give him credit for doing a much better job of connecting with the players than Hornacek did. This doesn't mean you have to kiss player's ass; it means you need to be honest but respectful.

Having said that, I still see big problems with the team and the way he has them play. Honestly, at times, I think he's operating on a secret missive to intentionally lose

All the Olidipo stuff is debatable. perhaps they did not want to pay on potential and they did not know what they had via the metric of what to pay him? Perhaps they did not want to find out via free agency and risk losing him or have to match a contrct they were not comfortable with. If they knew what they had, they might have paid him. Perhaps a defined timeline would clarify this. But who has that kind of time??

at the end of the day, Oladipo is not an indictment on Fizz (topic of this thread); to the extent it's an indictment it's on Oralndo FO (which included Perry)

HofstraBBall wrote:

Chandler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Anyone that thinks this year is about lineups, should stick to watching cricket.

Fiz has done a great job giving EVERYONE a look and fair shake thus far. He has done so and stayed competitive. Lets see the armchair geniuses suggest better lineups. For those mad that Frank is sitting, guess you were not listening at the beginning of the year when he said he will roll the ball out and let the best players play. What kind of respect would he have if he now changed the rules!!

Thank you. As I posted earlier- what is our record with KP? We're probably 500 or just a smidge over.

Add KD, and we're in first.

I love Fiz- I think he has done a great job of getting guys to overachieve.

What clear cut starter has he benched?

Before you fall too deeply in love consider the stats.

The team is playing worse on offense (passing and shooting) than last year (even though Fizz is rooted as a pg). We are dead last as a team in most passing stats. Mudiay is shooting better but passing worse (fewer assist more TOs). Yes he can look good here and there but he's averaging 3 assists and 2 TO a game roughly -- egads. that's our savior, our best passer? and he's not developing as a passer --he's regressing

More embarassing, we're far worse on defense (when Hornacek coached! let that sink in) This is so, even though this year we have Dot, Vonleh, and Mitch bring significantly more defensive energy than some of their predecessors

It's easy to like Fizz's passion (I do at least); and it's easy to see a lot of players playing hard for him (that's great). I am actually pulling for him, but that's because I'm a fan not because of the evidence in front of us.
the evidence suggests some very concerning aspects -- much more than lineups

His old GM said he couldn't close games; and we've seen that -- hopefully things improve

He alienated his best player in Memphis; Fizz said he learned from that, but KP has already called BS on him in a tweet, and Frank is probably not sending him any XMAS cards this year. ANd no, this isn't complaining about losing a starting role; i get that; Mud is playing better. This is about retarded DNPs when they could have used Frank's defense at least situationally (e.g., against Beale and the like) reinforcing and building Frank's confidence as a defensive stopper if nothing else. (How many games are we going to lose with THJ guarding the opponents best wing to end a game). And yes, I still think Fizz intended to humiliate Frank by gluing Frank to pine after 6 minutes when Frank did what coach wanted him to do --- attack the paint (albeit Frank could have done that better).

Whether it's KP or Frank, players have choices. The retreads will come here because we'll pay them. If we don't get some semblance of a system, culture, and real accountability the good guys are going to walk or find a way to force a trade.

Anyone who judges a new coach after 25 games and with a roster full of projects is an idiot! Anyone who thinks culture is developed in 25 games is a moron. We have a few on here.

As for accountability, Fiz has done nothing but hold players accountable.

Speak for yourself

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Chandler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Anyone that thinks this year is about lineups, should stick to watching cricket.

Fiz has done a great job giving EVERYONE a look and fair shake thus far. He has done so and stayed competitive. Lets see the armchair geniuses suggest better lineups. For those mad that Frank is sitting, guess you were not listening at the beginning of the year when he said he will roll the ball out and let the best players play. What kind of respect would he have if he now changed the rules!!

Thank you. As I posted earlier- what is our record with KP? We're probably 500 or just a smidge over.

Add KD, and we're in first.

I love Fiz- I think he has done a great job of getting guys to overachieve.

What clear cut starter has he benched?

Before you fall too deeply in love consider the stats.

The team is playing worse on offense (passing and shooting) than last year (even though Fizz is rooted as a pg). We are dead last as a team in most passing stats. Mudiay is shooting better but passing worse (fewer assist more TOs). Yes he can look good here and there but he's averaging 3 assists and 2 TO a game roughly -- egads. that's our savior, our best passer? and he's not developing as a passer --he's regressing

More embarassing, we're far worse on defense (when Hornacek coached! let that sink in) This is so, even though this year we have Dot, Vonleh, and Mitch bring significantly more defensive energy than some of their predecessors

It's easy to like Fizz's passion (I do at least); and it's easy to see a lot of players playing hard for him (that's great). I am actually pulling for him, but that's because I'm a fan not because of the evidence in front of us.
the evidence suggests some very concerning aspects -- much more than lineups

His old GM said he couldn't close games; and we've seen that -- hopefully things improve

He alienated his best player in Memphis; Fizz said he learned from that, but KP has already called BS on him in a tweet, and Frank is probably not sending him any XMAS cards this year. ANd no, this isn't complaining about losing a starting role; i get that; Mud is playing better. This is about retarded DNPs when they could have used Frank's defense at least situationally (e.g., against Beale and the like) reinforcing and building Frank's confidence as a defensive stopper if nothing else. (How many games are we going to lose with THJ guarding the opponents best wing to end a game). And yes, I still think Fizz intended to humiliate Frank by gluing Frank to pine after 6 minutes when Frank did what coach wanted him to do --- attack the paint (albeit Frank could have done that better).

Whether it's KP or Frank, players have choices. The retreads will come here because we'll pay them. If we don't get some semblance of a system, culture, and real accountability the good guys are going to walk or find a way to force a trade.

Anyone who judges a new coach after 25 games and with a roster full of projects is an idiot! Anyone who thinks culture is developed in 25 games is a moron. We have a few on here.

As for accountability, Fiz has done nothing but hold players accountable.

Speak for yourself

Not one. Are you? Im not the one labeling him as a bad ccoach or a good one and showing stats to support the great theory at the 25 game mark. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though. Besides Only real morons on here are the ones still blaming the Knicks for not matching Jeremy Lin's ridiculous contract.

As stated, think he has done a good job giving everyone a shot. The ones that have their panties in a wad about benching Frank are the ones that pronounced Frank as the second coming and are mad he has not played well before his 20th bday. Think he will still be a very good player and will continue to improve.

BigDaddyG wrote:I agree that there has to be more than meets the eye with Hezonja. It's baffling. Whatever, I hope things are stabilized soon.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ClarenceGaines2/status/1070768792270123008

I think at this point it's safe to say Clarence Gaines is ANTI KNICK

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I agree that there has to be more than meets the eye with Hezonja. It's baffling. Whatever, I hope things are stabilized soon.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ClarenceGaines2/status/1070768792270123008

I think at this point it's safe to say Clarence Gaines is ANTI KNICK

He definitely is bitter. Seemed like he had a sweet thing going there when he and Mills were laughing at Melo's workout video right after Phil got canned. Berman reported that it appears Gaines was behind the pursuing and signing of Joakim.

So i'm just wondering, did Mill just have the title GM, because his role back then is starting to look like he was more of a flunky..

sitting there with phil every game in those seats designated for Gm and prez, I don't see them sitting there much anymore..

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I agree that there has to be more than meets the eye with Hezonja. It's baffling. Whatever, I hope things are stabilized soon.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ClarenceGaines2/status/1070768792270123008

I think at this point it's safe to say Clarence Gaines is ANTI KNICK

He definitely is bitter. Seemed like he had a sweet thing going there when he and Mills were laughing at Melo's workout video right after Phil got canned. Berman reported that it appears Gaines was behind the pursuing and signing of Joakim.

Bitter? How did you land on bitter? How about straight forward?

And Anti Knick is just stupid.

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I agree that there has to be more than meets the eye with Hezonja. It's baffling. Whatever, I hope things are stabilized soon.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ClarenceGaines2/status/1070768792270123008

I think at this point it's safe to say Clarence Gaines is ANTI KNICK

He definitely is bitter. Seemed like he had a sweet thing going there when he and Mills were laughing at Melo's workout video right after Phil got canned. Berman reported that it appears Gaines was behind the pursuing and signing of Joakim.

The signing of Noah wouldn't have been bad, if it was a one year deal.

Was that actually confirmed they were laughing at Melo's workout? I thought that was a edited meme?

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I agree that there has to be more than meets the eye with Hezonja. It's baffling. Whatever, I hope things are stabilized soon.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ClarenceGaines2/status/1070768792270123008

I think at this point it's safe to say Clarence Gaines is ANTI KNICK

He definitely is bitter. Seemed like he had a sweet thing going there when he and Mills were laughing at Melo's workout video right after Phil got canned. Berman reported that it appears Gaines was behind the pursuing and signing of Joakim.

Yikes. Definitely bad blood and super surprised to see this playing out in a Twitter feud

I don't know if anyone saw the post article where Fizz was saying FO supported him regarding Frank. Somehow I think Frank is being caught in the middle of some hissy-fit ****

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I agree that there has to be more than meets the eye with Hezonja. It's baffling. Whatever, I hope things are stabilized soon.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ClarenceGaines2/status/1070768792270123008

I think at this point it's safe to say Clarence Gaines is ANTI KNICK

He definitely is bitter. Seemed like he had a sweet thing going there when he and Mills were laughing at Melo's workout video right after Phil got canned. Berman reported that it appears Gaines was behind the pursuing and signing of Joakim.

Bitter? How did you land on bitter? How about straight forward?

And Anti Knick is just stupid.

I follow him on twitter. Just based on a few things I have read. You could take it differently.

is it anti Knick, or anti Perry/Fiz

Gaines got canned this year right (not at same moment as Phil, right?)

Wondering if there were snarky comments about how the roster was assembled that Gaines too personally, and perhaps disrespected considering he has played roles in assembling championship rosters and probably was the only one capable of saying that in such a situation.

Man this looks ugly (would say fun if it were a different team)

And Gaines is chiming in on a tweet that wasn't even about Hezonja. Must be some **** like you signed Joachim, and the retort is you signed (and resigned) hezonja

No, the narrative of the tweets was centered on Hezonja's D. Film School argued that Mario made small improvements and Gaines, after rewatching game tape, responded with the tweet linked to above.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I agree that there has to be more than meets the eye with Hezonja. It's baffling. Whatever, I hope things are stabilized soon.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ClarenceGaines2/status/1070768792270123008

I think at this point it's safe to say Clarence Gaines is ANTI KNICK

He definitely is bitter. Seemed like he had a sweet thing going there when he and Mills were laughing at Melo's workout video right after Phil got canned. Berman reported that it appears Gaines was behind the pursuing and signing of Joakim.

Bitter? How did you land on bitter? How about straight forward?

And Anti Knick is just stupid.

I follow him on twitter. Just based on a few things I have read. You could take it differently.

is it anti Knick, or anti Perry/Fiz

Gaines got canned this year right (not at same moment as Phil, right?)

Wondering if there were snarky comments about how the roster was assembled that Gaines too personally, and perhaps disrespected considering he has played roles in assembling championship rosters and probably was the only one capable of saying that in such a situation.

Man this looks ugly (would say fun if it were a different team)

And Gaines is chiming in on a tweet that wasn't even about Hezonja. Must be some **** like you signed Joachim, and the retort is you signed (and resigned) hezonja

No, the narrative of the tweets was centered on Hezonja's D. Film School argued that Mario made small improvements and Gaines, after rewatching game tape, responded with the tweet linked to above.

Ahh thanks. I saw mention of mudiay and thought that was what was being discussed and then Gaines
Chimes in. Anyway Gaines clearly has a hair across his ass, as my mother used to say. He and Perry or mills or fizz have some bad blood