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The 2019 Draft
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smackeddog
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6/19/2019  12:23 PM
The way RJ's been smiling and talking in interviews, he's acting like he knows for sure we're drafting him. Guess this Garland workout was just in case the Grizz dealt the 2nd and the Pels picked RJ with it.

So that's the top 3 set in stone, plus likely 4 and 6:

1) Pels- Zion
2) Grizz- Ja (following Conley being traded to the Jazz
3) NY- RJ (I'm 100% sure that's who we're picking)

4) I think the Pels will trade, and whoever takes it will get Garland. Really think the Pels should just draft Garland- they need shooting and he's be a nice fit next to Holiday.


6) Suns- locked on Coby White (didn't even work out Garland)
AUTOADVERT
martin
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6/19/2019  12:34 PM
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martin
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6/19/2019  12:45 PM
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StarksEwing1
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6/19/2019  12:48 PM
martin wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Thats Awesome. I know many are bummed we didnt win the lottery but im really excited for Barrett
Chandler
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6/19/2019  12:58 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

A mistake to be honest- we no longer need 2 max slots (we were only $130,000 short anyways), he has a better upside than anyone we'll end up with in the 2nd round. Why not for once, just once, keep a rookie for the whole of their rookie contract and actually see what a full 4 years of development does?

this team has a problem with foreign players

it also seems they are more interested in (hopefully athletic) ball hogs than trying to actually build a team that complements one another

Criticism about Frank's woeful shooting percentage is legitimate; as is the criticism about the Knicks have mishandled him -- taking away his biggest strengths and exposing his biggest weaknesses.

The shooting wasn’t the issue nearly as much as his passiveness. If he drove to the basket far more and played even a little more aggressive, we would be talking about a far different player. It’s his mentality. No team or group of people can fox that. Only he can. It’s all on him. He can change over night or he may never change. As of now, he’s worth a second rounder and not a bag of potato chips more. That’s on him.

Fair enough points. I will continue to think he was mishandled though. It wasn't that long ago when he was touted for his elite level defense on pick-and-roll. Then there were the laudable moments against Harden, Wade, Ben Simmons. Last year for some nutty reason they decided they didn't want him defending pgs and took away his strong suit. things went downhill from there.

But I look to the Celtics and what they did with Smart who is also a poor offensive player and they get real team contributions from him. Same used to be true for Beverley. I look at Frank and say any respectable franchise would end up with some hybrid of Smart and George Hill, as a floor. We instead devalued him, and I still can't believe our team was so dysfunctional that he got a DNP when his mother visited. Classless move

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Chandler
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6/19/2019  1:08 PM
smackeddog wrote:Here's the latest from the hawks board, from that person who claims to have insider info:

UPDATE:

Pels 1 - Locked

Grizz 2 - Took calls for #2. Pels did make an offer, he wasn't sure on the terms but said declined and they will take Ja Morant

Knicks 3 - Said this one was locked in. Said they will look at Garland but the chances of this being anyone but R.J. is nil.

Pels 4 - Said Atlanta made the offer on Sat contingent if R.J. was on the board. (8/10) Said PHX made an offer contingent if White is on the board which was 6/Warren and Jackson for 4/Solo. Said Chicago did as well (7/1st protected) as did MIN (Similar) and BOS (two 1sts and a future 1st contingent if Garland is on the board. Asked what he thinks and what the league thinks. Said, the league thinks it's Chicago to lose. He said it's obviously Boston. Said the Memphis pick is the trump card.

Cavs 5 - Same have made an offer of 10/17 and they countered with 8/17/J.R. Smith and was declined. They have been working on a deal around what the Crane guy said but mentioned the Hawks aren't interested in Love without comp. IE, future 1sts. They are still talking but are stuck. I believe Atlanta would do 10/17 for 5/J.R. Smith if Cleveland gave the okay. Right now, they are stuck, Love's contract is too big. Mentioned Cleveland like others have been showing their big contracts of former stars. Said CHA has interest in Love for Batum. Said CLE has no interest. CLE wants value for Love or cap relief. Cap relief seems to be what CLE wants as well as two 1sts.

PHX 6 - Said Coby White seems to be the consensus and their offer to NO was basically, if our guy is at 6, that's what we are going to do. They are shopping 6 but said the interest has been lukewarm.

CHI 7- They are the most aggressive at moving up to 4. NO wants them to give up a lot.

ATL 8- Unless the amazing happens, expect them to keep this pick.

WAS 9 - Said that it seems they are down to four prospects - Hayes, Reddish, Little and Sekou.

ATL 10- He said he can't get a feel on this one. ATL been shopping or selling this one. 

CHA and MIN - Said they seem to be targeting a 4 but both want to move up.

That was it for the draft

We talked about CP3. Said no one wants him. No one.
He also said no one wants Wiggins.

Said Love has suitors but the trades are terrible for CLE. That's whythey are pitching this to Atlanta. 

Asked would Harden be moved, he said not a chance.

Asked what NO is looking for, he said assets for a Bradley Beal trade. When Beal is available, they want dibs. They have talked about it seems unlikely a move will happen this upcoming season. Watch for trade deadline action.

Asked how likely is it the Hawks will trade up from 8 or 10. He said, no sure, thinks it's more likely we trade back from 10 than move up from it. Said the cost of moving up is high mainly due to the assets available to Atlanta. 

thanks for the info. Regarding 4, I would take Chicago's offer over Boston. The Boston 1sts are in a riskier portion of the draft (this isn't football)

I'll admit I'm not surprised by Wiggins, I am surprised by CP3. Jazz just gave away a lot of assets for Conley. I could have imagined CP3 there. I also can imagine him as a Celtic or Sixer depending on price

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Uptown
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6/19/2019  1:13 PM
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

A mistake to be honest- we no longer need 2 max slots (we were only $130,000 short anyways), he has a better upside than anyone we'll end up with in the 2nd round. Why not for once, just once, keep a rookie for the whole of their rookie contract and actually see what a full 4 years of development does?

this team has a problem with foreign players

it also seems they are more interested in (hopefully athletic) ball hogs than trying to actually build a team that complements one another

Criticism about Frank's woeful shooting percentage is legitimate; as is the criticism about the Knicks have mishandled him -- taking away his biggest strengths and exposing his biggest weaknesses.

And yet, here we are a day away from the Knicks about to draft a Canadian. And, yes, I get the fact that he has a American ties with his dad, etc, but all in all I think your statement is taking it too far. Lets just call a spade a spade, as the 8th pick in the draft, Frank hasn't been good at all and has underachieved tremendously. Add to that the injury plagued season last year has added to the concerns.

As far as other foreign players, KP wanted out, and we obliged him. Can't fault Perry for this, but the deterioration of our relationship with him probably started under phils watch.

Kanter started running his mouth and became a disrupter once the focus shifted to Robinson and the kids...Hee needed to go the Knicks actually did him a favor by moving him to a playoff team.
Uptown
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6/19/2019  1:15 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

A mistake to be honest- we no longer need 2 max slots (we were only $130,000 short anyways), he has a better upside than anyone we'll end up with in the 2nd round. Why not for once, just once, keep a rookie for the whole of their rookie contract and actually see what a full 4 years of development does?

this team has a problem with foreign players

it also seems they are more interested in (hopefully athletic) ball hogs than trying to actually build a team that complements one another

Criticism about Frank's woeful shooting percentage is legitimate; as is the criticism about the Knicks have mishandled him -- taking away his biggest strengths and exposing his biggest weaknesses.

The shooting wasn’t the issue nearly as much as his passiveness. If he drove to the basket far more and played even a little more aggressive, we would be talking about a far different player. It’s his mentality. No team or group of people can fox that. Only he can. It’s all on him. He can change over night or he may never change. As of now, he’s worth a second rounder and not a bag of potato chips more. That’s on him.

Pretty much....It has nothing to do with where he was born.
Chandler
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6/19/2019  3:15 PM
Uptown wrote:
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

A mistake to be honest- we no longer need 2 max slots (we were only $130,000 short anyways), he has a better upside than anyone we'll end up with in the 2nd round. Why not for once, just once, keep a rookie for the whole of their rookie contract and actually see what a full 4 years of development does?

this team has a problem with foreign players

it also seems they are more interested in (hopefully athletic) ball hogs than trying to actually build a team that complements one another

Criticism about Frank's woeful shooting percentage is legitimate; as is the criticism about the Knicks have mishandled him -- taking away his biggest strengths and exposing his biggest weaknesses.

And yet, here we are a day away from the Knicks about to draft a Canadian. And, yes, I get the fact that he has a American ties with his dad, etc, but all in all I think your statement is taking it too far. Lets just call a spade a spade, as the 8th pick in the draft, Frank hasn't been good at all and has underachieved tremendously. Add to that the injury plagued season last year has added to the concerns.

As far as other foreign players, KP wanted out, and we obliged him. Can't fault Perry for this, but the deterioration of our relationship with him probably started under phils watch.

Kanter started running his mouth and became a disrupter once the focus shifted to Robinson and the kids...Hee needed to go the Knicks actually did him a favor by moving him to a playoff team.

I probably should have said European instead of foreign

it's all a massive coincidence, including Marc Gasol too.

the fact that all were not merely disappointed with Fizz but pissed is a massive coincidence too, i'm sure, and is no reflection on his ability to connect with European players

KP -- already documented that he was pissed Fizz didn't know where he was in terms of running and rehab
Frank -- guy got a DNP (for a 17 win team) when his mom came to visit
Enes -- felt like he wasn't being told a straight story
Marc Gasol -- not exactly sure but it certainly led to Fizz's dismissal (with his 50-52 record) plus GM's later comments that Fizz couldn't close games

We'll probably get a second rounder for Frank and if he goes to another team they'll make us look like fools

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Nalod
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6/19/2019  3:26 PM
Frank grew up eating Nutella on brioche? Man that shyt make you soft!!!

All the frank trade stuff comes from Berman who regurgitates the same thing every few weeks. Not reading it from any other source.
The article he posted was weak. I don't know whats up. If we need the cap space he frees up 5mm to be used on proven players. I get that. We have space, I don't know if we give up on him. WE get a 1st for him, then perhaps
SYN puts it out and used Berman as its source. We all love a comeback story. The kid has the mental fortitude to play great defense and has a good nose for steals, he should have the grit to be more aggressive.
All things being the same, I'd rather pay him and see what happens then pay Mudiay.
Marv
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6/19/2019  3:39 PM
Chandler wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

A mistake to be honest- we no longer need 2 max slots (we were only $130,000 short anyways), he has a better upside than anyone we'll end up with in the 2nd round. Why not for once, just once, keep a rookie for the whole of their rookie contract and actually see what a full 4 years of development does?

this team has a problem with foreign players

it also seems they are more interested in (hopefully athletic) ball hogs than trying to actually build a team that complements one another

Criticism about Frank's woeful shooting percentage is legitimate; as is the criticism about the Knicks have mishandled him -- taking away his biggest strengths and exposing his biggest weaknesses.

And yet, here we are a day away from the Knicks about to draft a Canadian. And, yes, I get the fact that he has a American ties with his dad, etc, but all in all I think your statement is taking it too far. Lets just call a spade a spade, as the 8th pick in the draft, Frank hasn't been good at all and has underachieved tremendously. Add to that the injury plagued season last year has added to the concerns.

As far as other foreign players, KP wanted out, and we obliged him. Can't fault Perry for this, but the deterioration of our relationship with him probably started under phils watch.

Kanter started running his mouth and became a disrupter once the focus shifted to Robinson and the kids...Hee needed to go the Knicks actually did him a favor by moving him to a playoff team.

I probably should have said European instead of foreign

it's all a massive coincidence, including Marc Gasol too.

the fact that all were not merely disappointed with Fizz but pissed is a massive coincidence too, i'm sure, and is no reflection on his ability to connect with European players

KP -- already documented that he was pissed Fizz didn't know where he was in terms of running and rehab
Frank -- guy got a DNP (for a 17 win team) when his mom came to visit
Enes -- felt like he wasn't being told a straight story
Marc Gasol -- not exactly sure but it certainly led to Fizz's dismissal (with his 50-52 record) plus GM's later comments that Fizz couldn't close games

We'll probably get a second rounder for Frank and if he goes to another team they'll make us look like fools

wow this got deep in a hurry.

i'm not reaching any broader conclusions but i do remember the impact of watching fiz go off on frank during the gsw game:

Marv wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Marv wrote:guess it didn’t show on tv but frank didn’t fight over a screen and gave curry a free 3-pointer from the corner and fiz went absolutely bat-**** crazy, a full-on hissy fit and immediately ordered burke in. humiliated frank big time, he even sat on the baseline rather than the bench after that. imo very bad move by fiz, poor self-control. i like him and am glad we have him but gotta admit if this bs is what he was doing to gasol then he deserved to be fired and it’ll happen again if he keeps it up.
I didnt see that. Frank is really good at fighting over screens but its impossible to fight over all of them

exactly. and he had just scored his 17th point and was in a rhythm, playing confidently.


Marv wrote:i looked for video of it but couldn’t find it. was anyone else at the game who could weigh in?

personally i’m all for accountability too, but this was about a coach’s demeanor. it was an over-the-top demonstration that was way out of proportion for the circumstances and reflected poorly on his stewardship. just one person’s opinion so i wish we could find a clip so others could weigh in.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=58610&page=17
Uptown
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6/19/2019  3:49 PM
Chandler wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

A mistake to be honest- we no longer need 2 max slots (we were only $130,000 short anyways), he has a better upside than anyone we'll end up with in the 2nd round. Why not for once, just once, keep a rookie for the whole of their rookie contract and actually see what a full 4 years of development does?

this team has a problem with foreign players

it also seems they are more interested in (hopefully athletic) ball hogs than trying to actually build a team that complements one another

Criticism about Frank's woeful shooting percentage is legitimate; as is the criticism about the Knicks have mishandled him -- taking away his biggest strengths and exposing his biggest weaknesses.

And yet, here we are a day away from the Knicks about to draft a Canadian. And, yes, I get the fact that he has a American ties with his dad, etc, but all in all I think your statement is taking it too far. Lets just call a spade a spade, as the 8th pick in the draft, Frank hasn't been good at all and has underachieved tremendously. Add to that the injury plagued season last year has added to the concerns.

As far as other foreign players, KP wanted out, and we obliged him. Can't fault Perry for this, but the deterioration of our relationship with him probably started under phils watch.

Kanter started running his mouth and became a disrupter once the focus shifted to Robinson and the kids...Hee needed to go the Knicks actually did him a favor by moving him to a playoff team.

I probably should have said European instead of foreign

it's all a massive coincidence, including Marc Gasol too.

the fact that all were not merely disappointed with Fizz but pissed is a massive coincidence too, i'm sure, and is no reflection on his ability to connect with European players

KP -- already documented that he was pissed Fizz didn't know where he was in terms of running and rehab
Frank -- guy got a DNP (for a 17 win team) when his mom came to visit
Enes -- felt like he wasn't being told a straight story
Marc Gasol -- not exactly sure but it certainly led to Fizz's dismissal (with his 50-52 record) plus GM's later comments that Fizz couldn't close games

We'll probably get a second rounder for Frank and if he goes to another team they'll make us look like fools

If all the Knicks can get for Frank is a 2nd rounder, they should just continue to develop him and hope the fragile mindstate changes. If not, Frank will be out of the league in a couple of years.

I honestly think most of what you outlined concerning Fiz and Euro players are a mix of coincidence and exaggeration.

KP - already had one foot out of the door before Fiz arrived. KP skipping an end of the year meeting with phil shows that he was more pissed at him than an instagram post responding to Fiz's comments. Remember, Fiz traveled to KP's homeland to visit him and try to fix a relationship that was severed by the previous regime. If Fiz had an issue, why bother to travel.

Frank - Began the year as a starter and it didn't work out..Then, Fiz gave Frank another opportunity to start at the point and that was a failure too. Fiz could have given some minutes while his mom was in town. He flucked up. But I dont believe it had anything to with where Frank was born.

Enes - was sent to the bench once the Knicks decided it was time to give Robinson major mins. Kanter's inability to keep his mouth shut was a part if his undoing here. Jordan came in, excepted less minutes and still found it in his heart to mentor Robinson. Why couldn't Kanter do the same?

Gasol - Not 100% sure what happened there other than the two unnecessary comments made by both. To me both in the wrong, but FZ is the coach so he shouldn't have took it there. With that said, the have made peace since then.
smackeddog
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6/19/2019  3:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/19/2019  4:13 PM


Man, Garland left it too long to work out with us, I think RJ has built up way too much momentum to turn back now, no way we don’t take RJ. Maybe We did a check up on him just in case the pelicans offered us a spectacular offer to swap picks (they won’t)
Nalod
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6/19/2019  4:01 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25377671/marc-gasol-memphis-grizzlies-says-david-fizdale-made-peace-other

Fiz pushed Gasol to extend his range. Got him a chip. Dude was a big part of the win.
His beef is just with euro's? I doubt that. Think Fiz learned? WE as fans look for evidence and stack it as if coaches don't actually learn from mistakes. Did Fiz make a job costing ego mistake? I bet he regrets that.

He went and saw KP. There was effort to mend the fence.
KP's reaction to "Sprints" was nonsense. How hard is it that players doing sprints on the court vs. on the track won't be visable?
Is it kind of common that if a player is running sprints on the court, he is close to returning? I thought that was Fiz's reference. KP looked stupid to me. Like a dude looking for a "gotcha" moment. He never coached him in a single practice.
How is it that Fiz was anti euro?
Enes has same good play and same issues on all the teams that he has been on. He is not a player who makes starter money. He did. He won't. His cap, his salary, our record? Nothing personal, but he was not staying beyond the season.

Fiz and Frank? Does one play define their relationship? Fiz was Jonesing for a win vs. GSW. Curry made knicks look bad. Get in line, curry makes everyone look silly. A coach over reacted? Oh my!!!! A young player lose his confidence? Could be. Gotta grow up.
Uptown
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6/19/2019  4:07 PM
smackeddog wrote:


Man, Garland left it too long to work out with us, I think RJ has built up way too much momentum to turn back now, now way we don’t take RJ. Maybe We did a check up on him just in case the pelicans offered us a spectacular offer to swap picks (they won’t)

Garland can Ball!!!! He's a modern day lead guard; crazy handles, is quick and who can shoot it from deep. He's not a strong finisher at the rim and seems to lack the vision that Trey Young had coming out last year.
smackeddog
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6/19/2019  4:24 PM
Uptown wrote:
smackeddog wrote:


Man, Garland left it too long to work out with us, I think RJ has built up way too much momentum to turn back now, now way we don’t take RJ. Maybe We did a check up on him just in case the pelicans offered us a spectacular offer to swap picks (they won’t)

Garland can Ball!!!! He's a modern day lead guard; crazy handles, is quick and who can shoot it from deep. He's not a strong finisher at the rim and seems to lack the vision that Trey Young had coming out last year.

The irony is Garland would be a great fit next to RJ- heck I’d offer the Pelicans both the Dallas picks for the 4th, and draft them both
Uptown
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6/19/2019  4:36 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Uptown wrote:
smackeddog wrote:


Man, Garland left it too long to work out with us, I think RJ has built up way too much momentum to turn back now, now way we don’t take RJ. Maybe We did a check up on him just in case the pelicans offered us a spectacular offer to swap picks (they won’t)

Garland can Ball!!!! He's a modern day lead guard; crazy handles, is quick and who can shoot it from deep. He's not a strong finisher at the rim and seems to lack the vision that Trey Young had coming out last year.

The irony is Garland would be a great fit next to RJ- heck I’d offer the Pelicans both the Dallas picks for the 4th, and draft them both

It would be nuts if we could somehow land 3 & 4...Unfortunately, the Pels may want allstar talent for 4. Or something better than what those Dallas picks would turnout to be.
martin
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6/19/2019  4:43 PM
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smackeddog
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6/19/2019  5:03 PM
martin wrote:

It’s frustrating, but likely we don’t take on these bad salaries for picks until we’ve had it confirmed we’re not signing any max guys, so other teams have the jump on us. I’d definitely take on Robertson’s for the 21st- no ones going to take on Adams or Schroeder
martin
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6/19/2019  5:12 PM
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