Saw a lot of 1/1 and ISO play, and that was about it, and was wondering when we were going to see some cohesiveness on the offensive end.

Might have also made a comment about how we weren't putting Knox, or others, into a position to succeed when we had the ball.

Of course you need to play ISO ball every now and then, based on the situation and the particular match-up, but I see little evidence of offensive planning beyond giving the ball to the hot hand and having everyone else stand around and watch.

Nothing I've seen so far from Fizdale, makes me believe that having him as head coach is a selling point for free agents. Seems like a good guy...and has a hot wife, but the offensive anarchy I'm seeing is not a good sign for the future of the franchise, in my opinion.

dodger78 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Can't remember whether I made a comment in SL or in pre-season about the fact that I saw no rhyme or reason to our offense.

Saw a lot of 1/1 and ISO play, and that was about it, and was wondering when we were going to see some cohesiveness on the offensive end.

Might have also made a comment about how we weren't putting Knox, or others, into a position to succeed when we had the ball.

Of course you need to play ISO ball every now and then, based on the situation and the particular match-up, but I see little evidence of offensive planning beyond giving the ball to the hot hand and having everyone else stand around and watch.

Nothing I've seen so far from Fizdale, makes me believe that having him as head coach is a selling point for free agents. Seems like a good guy...and has a hot wife, but the offensive anarchy I'm seeing is not a good sign for the future of the franchise, in my opinion.

+1 I absolutely agree to this!
I have been waiting to see a DNA within our offense that structures the movement but havent seen any as of yet.
In Summerleague I was willing to attribute this to lack of time still and new/young core of players but our offence consists exclusively at this point of Timmy doing Timmy things, IsoZo being IsoZo, similar to Trey Burke once in a while and Enes bullying his way downlow before giving up points on the other end of the court again.
Ball and player movement within a concept is non existent.
And honestly I dont buy into the topic of speed ball as we are not having a good pace most of the time!
Quite frankly the only excitment is generated by shows of individual talent - ideally from some of our young guys!
Its also not necessarily a question of talent because this is not only about stats and making shots... its about lack of creativity within the system.

I like Fiz and think he is doing great connecting with the team (especially the young guys) but honestly I havent seen much from a coaches performance to this point!

I think most of all the issues we see on offensive end are strong illustration how badly Knicks fall behind in NBA.
Getting 2-way players with talent is hard by itself. Getting this for every position is close to impossible.
The players we have which can score and are scoring - Timmy, Burke, Kanter and IsoZo are all isolation players and all bad defenders and passers.
Players we have who can defend and are team players are bad offensive players.
I do not see any other path for the team but continue to draft/develop and trade one-sided talent for complete NBA players.
So the hope that team will come together and compete in 2-3 years getting more an utopia by day.
5-6 years seems like much more likely scenario.
This makes Fiz as complete coach not a necessity. His role is development and live evaluation.
His contract extension with the Knicks will depend on how he will grow with the team as an NBA coach.

There is potential, it just needs to be developed.

I actually think we've over acheived. We basically have a college/g league type roster. What exactly should our record be?

franco12 wrote:I don't see this as a problem with Fizdale or his system. The problem we have is we're young and still trying to work out who has the talent to stay with this team long term.

There is potential, it just needs to be developed.

I actually think we've over acheived. We basically have a college/g league type roster. What exactly should our record be?

This team is where it should be. Biggest problem going in here is hanging on to players that aren’t very good like Burk and Mudiay. These are young vets not rookies not college players. My concern is what is going on with Frank and his offense. Is this regression system related. Last night he took a whopping 1 shot and it was thrown back in his face. This is concerning this regression what is it a result of possibly a system error. Gone are his long outlet passes he is losing his Euro training and he is getting worse. Personally I don’t feel Fizz is the right coach for this team. He doesn’t know how to coach. His claim to fame is his work with Wase and LeBron not much coaching required there.

As for Frank and his regression what is the cause he doesn’t seem right and doesn’t look like he is enjoying being out there. The ball consistently works away from him and it doesn’t take a genius to see that.

You see a guy trying to play organized with a bunch of and one players who are not looking to pass. This type of play is destined to fail.

TripleThreat wrote:Right now, they need Zinger and Lee. At least they can hit an open three point shot.

They lack talent. They don't have anyone who can consistently create his own shot within the framework of a functional offense. ( THJr can do it sometimes, Trier can create his own looks, but never within true offensive flow)

They need to split time with Ron Baker and Frank N running the offense. And force those guys to shoot threes, even if they miss them.

Baker at least is a good decision maker. He has other flaws though.

Lots of their players are playing for new contracts and are trying to drive up their counting stats. Also many of them are established black holes on offense.

In a situation like this, you need someone to take a true Alpha role. Someone who will get in other players faces.

Hard to pin this on Fizdale completely. At least for now.

Thats your answer, BAKER???? Really, the guy sucks, not a NBA player. I would take Burke any day over Baker. Burke at least has the talent to play in the NBA. Burke needs to improve things but at least he has the skills to play in the NBA. Baker has shown NO skills except hustle for the NBA. For someone who comes off as such a know it all maybe you should go back to the NFL( but if that really was true you probably got your ass canned for your condescending attitude.

knicks1248 wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:Right now, they need Zinger and Lee. At least they can hit an open three point shot.

They lack talent. They don't have anyone who can consistently create his own shot within the framework of a functional offense. ( THJr can do it sometimes, Trier can create his own looks, but never within true offensive flow)

They need to split time with Ron Baker and Frank N running the offense. And force those guys to shoot threes, even if they miss them.

Baker at least is a good decision maker. He has other flaws though.

Lots of their players are playing for new contracts and are trying to drive up their counting stats. Also many of them are established black holes on offense.

In a situation like this, you need someone to take a true Alpha role. Someone who will get in other players faces.

Hard to pin this on Fizdale completely. At least for now.

Thats your answer, BAKER???? Really, the guy sucks, not a NBA player. I would take Burke any day over Baker. Burke at least has the talent to play in the NBA. Burke needs to improve things but at least he has the skills to play in the NBA. Baker has shown NO skills except hustle for the NBA. For someone who comes off as such a know it all maybe you should go back to the NFL( but if that really was true you probably got your ass canned for your condescending attitude.

lol @ ron Baker makes good decision

He usually does. There are times that he goes on the court and looks like the only one with and idea of how the offense is run. Still don't want him to play extended minutes of point guard, but I wouldn't mind see him play more. Everyone else is getting a shot. Kornet is blowing up Westchester. Maybe he should be our next starting center?

TripleThreat wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:Right now, they need Zinger and Lee. At least they can hit an open three point shot.

They lack talent. They don't have anyone who can consistently create his own shot within the framework of a functional offense. ( THJr can do it sometimes, Trier can create his own looks, but never within true offensive flow)

They need to split time with Ron Baker and Frank N running the offense. And force those guys to shoot threes, even if they miss them.

Baker at least is a good decision maker. He has other flaws though.

Lots of their players are playing for new contracts and are trying to drive up their counting stats. Also many of them are established black holes on offense.

In a situation like this, you need someone to take a true Alpha role. Someone who will get in other players faces.

Hard to pin this on Fizdale completely. At least for now.

Thats your answer, BAKER???? Really, the guy sucks, not a NBA player. I would take Burke any day over Baker. Burke at least has the talent to play in the NBA. Burke needs to improve things but at least he has the skills to play in the NBA. Baker has shown NO skills except hustle for the NBA. For someone who comes off as such a know it all maybe you should go back to the NFL( but if that really was true you probably got your ass canned for your condescending attitude.

Right now he's the best out of a series of bad options.

Baker can defend the wing. He will keep the ball moving. He is a good decision maker. He can't get to the rim. He's not going to space the floor with an effective three point shot.

Mudiay and Burke aren't giving you defense. Worse, when Kanter is on the floor, Burke and Kanter are basically a swinging door for even a mediocre pick and roll. Mudiay and Burke also aren't spacing the floor with a three point shot. Burke calls his own number far too much and Mudiay just isn't good at anything.

So yes, I'd rather have a sub marginal player who will defend and make good decisions and play actual team basketball and give 200 percent on the floor each night out than Mudiay and Burke.

Baker is not a good option. He's the best of a series of bad options. There are no good options.

If you are going to lose no matter what you do, if you had to choose to lose with discipline, or lose without discipline, I'd rather lose with it.

I do not want to watch ROn Baker.

He may know how to run the offense, but honestly, the lack of athletic ability- he doesn't have a future in the NBA.

Mudiay and Burke are both young with physical talents. THey may or may not have a future.

Lets find out?